Western Standard

The Shotgun Blog

« Filibuster: A note to Tea Party activists from the NAACP | Main | The Tories' Need for Speed »

Monday, July 19, 2010

Opposition Seeks to Force Inquiry on G20 Mass Arrests

From The Hill Times:

The evidence includes eyewitness accounts from lawyers who acted as monitors during the protests where police arrested 1,105 people, including bystanders, lawful protesters and some of the legal monitors, but released more than 900 with no charges.

Up to six lawyers who volunteered as monitors with the Osgoode Hall Law Union were swept up by police and have provided affidavit-style evidence to organizers about the abuses they witnessed in the notorious temporary prison Toronto police set up in an abandoned film studio, says Adrienne Telford, one of the organizers. The Canadian Civil Liberties Union had up to 50 legal monitors at the protests and is compiling information.

But don't worry, it'll never happen to you. 

The police only ever arrest bad people, or least people who look suspicious. It's their own damn fault they dress the wrong way, or wanted to express an opinion too openly. Normal people have jobs and families, they don't waste their time protesting. Just a bunch of hippies. So they were at the wrong place at the wrong time, big deal. Maybe they should live somewhere else. They're all lying, or exaggerating. Just to get on TV. Just to discredit the police. Just to attack Stephen Harper.

I'm sure the police had the best of motives. 

You have to maintain law and order in a society. Police cars got destroyed. Windows got smashed. Huh? Why didn't the police prevent that? Well that's because they weren't handed enough special powers. You don't trust the police? Well then you support the criminals? Yes, I know what a criminal is, they're the bad people the police arrest. It's the usual complainers that are complaining. 

But don't worry, it will never happen to you. You live in the suburbs. You live in a small town. You live in a nice neighbourhood. Bad things only ever happen to bad people, elsewhere. They deserve it. You're not a bad person. You never do anything suspicious. Just don't blow any bubbles.

(More WS on G20 commentary).

Posted by Richard Anderson on July 19, 2010 in G20 | Permalink

Comments

Eh?

Posted by: Agha Ali Arkhan | 2010-07-19 7:02:33 AM


Well said!

Posted by: granny | 2010-07-19 7:16:57 AM


So to the testimony of malcontents, anarchists, vandals and protest-prone university students, we can now add the testimony of...lawyers?

I'm not saying that every police officer behaved in exemplary fashion, but is it proving that difficult to get convincing testimonials from non-interested parties? Apparently.

P.S. Bitterness and sarcasm make for a weak argument, Publius.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 7:50:41 AM


There is no such thing as a non-interested party in these circumstances. If your rights were infringed, you have an interest.

It wasn't sarcasm BTW, it was satire. Rather too many conservative talk and think just like that, and it blinds them to the situation.

Posted by: Publius | 2010-07-19 8:36:59 AM


Oh, and are all those videos "interested" too.

Posted by: Publius | 2010-07-19 8:37:37 AM


Publius, forgive Shane. He's convinced himself that tautological reasoning is a valid way of perceiving the world around him.

Posted by: Mike Brock | 2010-07-19 9:06:45 AM


    There is no such thing as a non-interested party in these circumstances. If your rights were infringed, you have an interest.

I was referring to the public at large; you know, the 34,159,000-odd Canadians who weren't arrested that day, but at least some of whom witnessed events firsthand. You'd think that such Stalinesque conduct on the part of officers would engender much condemnation even from those not affected, but this does not appear to be the case.

    It wasn't sarcasm BTW, it was satire. Rather too many conservative talk and think just like that, and it blinds them to the situation.

Satire is the clever use of sarcasm to expose folly. What this means to you is that this isn't very good satire, because it isn't very clever. Substituting bitterness for genuine wit does not a memorable narrative make. And most of the bitterness and sarcasm I see comes from the Left. (Note: Libertarians are merely Leftists who have attempted to re-pot their contempt for authority and society into a package more amenable to current political tastes.) Pigeonhole for pigeonhole received, Publius.

    Oh, and are all those videos "interested" too.

By "all," you mean the "bubbles" incident and Mike Brock's video of a stubborn cyclist with a chip on his shoulder? Riveting stuff. But perhaps Canadians are more inclined to recall the burning police cars, smashed windows, and masked terrorists shrieking like demons through the streets, bludgeoning everything in sight. Which tends to show that the police should have done more, not less. Perhaps the snipers should have shot the instigators dead in their tracks. I'd certainly not complain.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 9:13:27 AM


Shane,

Your reasoning is disjointed. Nobody disagrees the police should have done more to stop the violence on Saturday. but more does not include temporarily suspending everyone else's rights for two days hence.

You're actually buying into the logic that police under-reaction on Saturday, dictated the need for an over-reaction against everyone.

Posted by: Mike Brock | 2010-07-19 9:16:41 AM


    Your reasoning is disjointed. Nobody disagrees the police should have done more to stop the violence on Saturday. but more does not include temporarily suspending everyone else's rights for two days hence.

We'll likely have to wait to see what a judge says about that, Mike. The Canadian public at large has already ruled. And please, no expostulations that they "just don't know the facts"; they have been amply publicized. Unless something truly stunning comes to light, as it did in the Robert Dziekanski case, don't expect a big turnaround in public opinion even if a judge does scold the police a year or two from now.

    You're actually buying into the logic that police under-reaction on Saturday, dictated the need for an over-reaction against everyone.

No, I'm saying that the Canadian public is buying into the logic that police under-reaction on Saturday dictated the need for what you describe as an over-reaction against everyone. I have already voiced my opinion on what they should have done on Saturday: targetted instigators and vandals with live ammunition. In all likelihood the streets the following day would have been clear of any except those who had business there.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 9:28:40 AM


Publius, forgive Shane. He's convinced himself that tautological reasoning is a valid way of perceiving the world around him.

Just as I forgive the two of you, for your eternal optimism: To wit, your conviction that the flogging of fly-eaten carcasses is an effective method of promoting political change.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 9:31:44 AM


Everything is ok Shane , as long as it dosnt happen to you.
Or are you saying if you were arrested for wearing the wrong clothing, you would be ok with that?

Posted by: don b | 2010-07-19 9:56:11 AM


How innocuous the miscreants manage to make themselves sound. "Millions of dollars in property damage" becomes "peaceful protest." "Mass street disorders bringing the city to a halt" becomes "civil disobedience." "Firebombings" becomes "a legitimate form of self-expression that we won't condemn."

Now look at the way they talk about the police. "Checking IDs and searching bags" becomes "violation of human rights by jackbooted thugs." Dispersing riots becomes "a great tragedy for the Canadian people." Detaining suspects becomes "treating people like animals." (I'll hold up my hands to the bubbles thing.)

Tell me, Don, who do you hope to convince with this kind of baldly obvious double-talk? Preaching to the choir may be a good ego boost, but it gets you nowhere.

No, it didn't happen to me, but it didn't happen to 34,159,000 other Canadians, either, because those 34,159,000 people had the sense not to provoke the police on the day they were responsible for the welfare of dozens of foreign dignitaries from Canada's most important political and economic partners.

34,159,000 Canadians were mature enough not to provide a ruckus and cover for terrorists, determined to have their voices heard at any price; after all, "it's only glass, man." One asshole by himself caused over $300,000 in damage, which not one of these terrorist enablers has seen fit to help pay for.

You want to know why Canadians are siding with the police? Because they've seen the alternative. Is there something in the libertarian genotype that decrees libertarians must back the losing horse in every single race?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 10:41:18 AM


Shane,

Let me get this straight; you're saying that whether or not the police reaction was right, legal and above-board is a matter of public opinion?

So, if say, 90% of Saudi Arabians think it's okay to flog women who don't follow Islamic dress code, it's okay?

Posted by: Mike Brock | 2010-07-19 10:50:26 AM


    Let me get this straight; you're saying that whether or not the police reaction was right, legal and above-board is a matter of public opinion?

No, I'm saying that it's a matter of judicial opinion. This may come as a painful shock to you, Mike, but...you are part of the public. That means your opinion, legally speaking, doesn't count for any more than ours. But I am saying that the public's reaction will likely set the tone for future incidents, and based on what we've seen so far, it's not looking good for the protesters. Gandhi's disciples these ain't.

    So, if say, 90% of Saudi Arabians think it's okay to flog women who don't follow Islamic dress code, it's okay?

No, but if 90% of the population thinks it's okay, it is likely to continue. Conversely, the best way to make it stop would be to convince them that it isn't okay. That is how Gandhi and King ultimately won; they convinced the politicians that they had the support of the voters. In this the Blac Bloc and their "peaceful" enablers seem to have been less successful, perhaps because they always leave devastation and destruction in their wake.

Losing horse, Mike. Find us some genuine injustice that the general public can relate to, and you'll be on the road to respectability. But if you're not in it for the ultimate goal, but simply like having things to complain about, then by all means stick with Santa's Little Helper.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 11:20:34 AM


Shane:

You've got it all wrong.

Brock is more important than thousands of others.

Just ask him.

Horse. Dead. Keep beating. That's our Mikey.

Posted by: set you free | 2010-07-19 12:02:24 PM


Western? Standard.

Posted by: set you free | 2010-07-19 12:04:03 PM


Yep, the streets of Toronto are exactly like Saudi Arabia.

My sister, who lives in Toronto, says it's true.

Not.

Posted by: set you free | 2010-07-19 12:05:25 PM


Shane you fit in well in Nazi Germany , the public backed that genocidal regime.

Posted by: don b | 2010-07-19 1:15:30 PM


You chronically oppressed types are so drearily predictable. Sooner or later, you just call your opponents Nazis, moon them, and saunter off. Quitter!

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 1:25:53 PM


Shane:

Chronically oppressed. I love it.

It takes quite an imagination to compare Canada with Saudi Arabia or a genocidal regime.

They expect to be taken seriously?

It's a good thing this is mostly a Toronto phenomenon.

These guys would be laughed off the streets in Western Canada, whose values they pretend to reflect.

Piiityyyful.

Posted by: set you free | 2010-07-19 1:45:35 PM


Shane ,you are like most people , just dont care till it happens to you.
You should do a poll , ask people if they have any idea how many people were arrested at the g20

Posted by: don b | 2010-07-19 2:31:30 PM


Don, do you think that if you keep saying it over and over the rest of us will just go away and leave you as the last man standing? This isn't Survivor, nor is it American Idol. And it's not going to happen to me, because I'm too sensible to hang out with terrorists in the first place.

I'd rather do another poll, one that asks the "peaceful" protesters if they have any idea what the tab for the property damage they consider so unimportant will be. Of course, the real telling poll would be how many of them would chip in to help repair the damage. How much shall I put you down for?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 2:46:41 PM


Shane thats what the billion dollars was supposed to be for , prevent property damage , it seems to me the police didnt know what they were there for.
Sorry but your not sensible , your using logic that, not everybody was detained so it wasnt that bad.
Thats the kind of logic that Fidel Castro uses , whats best for the state is best for the people, individuals dont count, if the wrongly accused was executed, well its all for a good cause isnt it.

Posted by: don b | 2010-07-19 4:11:26 PM


    Shane thats what the billion dollars was supposed to be for , prevent property damage , it seems to me the police didnt know what they were there for.

Actually, it seems you didn’t know what they were there for. They were there to protect the dignitaries. Had harm come to any one of them, our country would now be paying steep political and economic consequences. Yes, Don, they are more important to us than local criminals. I’ll understand if you can’t quite get your head around that.

    Sorry but your not sensible , your using logic that, not everybody was detained so it wasnt that bad.

I’m using logic that only those whom police considered suspicious or potentially involved in criminal acts were detained. That’s the trouble when the “peaceful” crowd allows terrorists to melt into their ranks; they then become suspects themselves. Fully a fourth of those arrested are now facing charges; the rest were released without charge even though many were probably guilty and will go unpunished. They weren’t beaten. They weren’t tortured. They weren’t even fined. They were given a day and a half of tank time that they probably mostly deserved. Cubans would be ecstatic if this was the worst Castro ever did.

    Thats the kind of logic that Fidel Castro uses , whats best for the state is best for the people, individuals dont count, if the wrongly accused was executed, well its all for a good cause isnt it.

Is this your default fallback position whenever you’re even slightly flustered? Just pull a dictator’s name out a hat and it’s game, set, match? What proof have you for any of this? All you have is your outrage, which means you have squat. Did you ever wonder if that might be why protesters are mostly dismissed as grumpy cranks who think the world has screwed them and are just looking for payback, even if they can’t name a grievance that affects them personally?

Reality check, Don. Cuba v2.0 this ain’t.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 4:43:04 PM


Now look at the way they talk about the police. "Checking IDs and searching bags" becomes "violation of human rights by jackbooted thugs."
Actually checking ID's and searching bags is a violation of human rights. Section 8 of the charter. And when the cops will use thuggish tactics to enforce their illegal searches, then they might as well be in jackboots.

Dispersing riots becomes "a great tragedy for the Canadian people."
The only bit that looked like rioting was not dispersed.. the cops were ordered not to engage then.. the peaceful singing of the Canadian anthem however, that they did mistake for a riot.

Detaining suspects becomes "treating people like animals."

Holding people in cold conditions under bright lights with extremely limited water and food is actually worse than I'd treat an animal..

I think people who back the police no matter what are just being lazy thinkers.. for them Police fit into the "good guy/ hero" mental box and no amount of evidence to the contrary will make them consider that the good guy following bad orders is no hero.

Posted by: Edd | 2010-07-19 5:29:04 PM


Shane IS tautological reasoning in "sentient" form, to use the term loosely.

Posted by: Cytotoxic | 2010-07-19 5:58:51 PM


What still gets me is how surprised you people are about this! Toronto ALWAYS has been a fascist state run by and for the rich white people. The elites demand conformity and obedience, which explains why they react violently towards upstarts who dare threaten their "peaceful, safe, tolerant" home. Non-whites are particularly targeted, usually enduring negative stereotypes. You respond with horror when your own cops overreact to a small group of thugs, while ignoring worse things that occur every day. You make me laugh.

Take a look at your monuments - they honor only white heroes of the Empire, frighteningly obsolete now given the demographic changes in that place. If you delete my post, you will prove that you so-called "liberatarians" are no better than the people you oppose. Your reactionary ways have come back to haunt you.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-07-19 6:27:23 PM


I enjoyed your post Zebulon. Who would you honour if you had the chance?

Posted by: Alberta Al | 2010-07-19 6:36:39 PM


Shane: has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Posted by: Huh? | 2010-07-19 6:40:11 PM


Alberta Al: I'd uproot statues of colonial-era, royal and military figures first, replacing them with Natives, Africans and Asians, and women. Monuments to slavery and to Indian genocide should be included. Even South Carolina is more racially inclusive than you people.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-07-19 6:59:08 PM


Shane, the double-talk is all yours. There was property damage, and there was peaceful protest. The only person attempting to conflate the two is you, in your false characterization of the arguments of those who are protesting the actions of the police.
I am a Torontonian. I saw the damage, which actually was not as extensive as the mainstream media made it out to be. I know someone who was arrested at Queen's Park, which was supposed to be the designated protest area, during a non-violent non-demonstration, which only turned violent when the police moved in, told people to clear out, then penned them in so they couldn't. My friend was knocked to the ground, scooped up, bound by his wrists, and held in a cage in the detention centre for 23 hours, his wrists bound the entire time, without being able to call a lawyer, or even his mother. His only crime, as far as he can tell (he was never charged) was not moving fast enough. He was not Black Block, he was not violent, he's not even particularly political. But he did know that something very wrong was happening in our city, namely the out-of-control police actions, and felt he needed to add his voice to those who were saying it had to stop. If you know Toronto at all, you'll know that Queen's Park is nowhere near the G20 security zone. The people gathered there were no threat to the delegates.
As for people not being beaten, that is patently false. Many people were in fact beaten rather badly, but were refused medical attention. One middle-aged amputee, who again was neither an anarchist nor violent, actually had his prosthetic leg ripped off by the police and was told to hop. You're probably the sort of person who would laugh at that, but that treatment constitutes mental torture. Women in the detention centre were threatened with rape. Also mental torture. The list goes on and on.
Your statement that most of the people released without charge were probably guilty and will go unpunished is astounding. Guilty of what? Of exercising their right to peacefully protest policies of their government they disagree with? Of being innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time? (And there were plenty of those.) Do you actually hold a crowd of 20 000 peaceful protesters (including grandmothers, church groups, samba bands!) responsible for the actions of a couple of hundred vandals simply because they were able to blend in to the larger group? Only in the most repressive regimes is this a crime. Apparently that's the kind of country you want Canada to become.

Posted by: Anthony C | 2010-07-19 7:10:54 PM


Anthony C: you're wrong. Canada will not become as you predict. Instead, it has been the reality of Ontario since colonial times - a racist society that oppresses minorities and dissenters. I wish you people would stop projecting what happens in your area to others. Those of us blessed not to be from Tronna know better. Unlike you, we learn from the past, whereas you people mindlessly venerate it. Rigidity, conformity and suppression is all you people know.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-07-19 7:32:55 PM


    Actually checking ID's and searching bags is a violation of human rights. Section 8 of the charter.

Actually, no, it isn't. In the first place, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms outlines your civil rights, not your human rights. Secondly, Section 8 is subject to reasonable limits as outlined in Section 1.

    And when the cops will use thuggish tactics to enforce their illegal searches, then they might as well be in jackboots.

Thugs batter you with clubs, stick you with knives, shoot holes in your intestines. How much of that did the cops do at G20, Edd?

    The only bit that looked like rioting was not dispersed.. the cops were ordered not to engage then.. the peaceful singing of the Canadian anthem however, that they did mistake for a riot.

Right. They swept in because of a song. They were specifically ordered to move in on the second bar of “O Canada.” And, of course, you can prove that.

And enough of the “peaceful” shtick. Every anti-globalization protest has been anything but. The public isn’t buying the “it's only glass, man” defence, so you may as well try some other tack.

    Holding people in cold conditions under bright lights with extremely limited water and food is actually worse than I'd treat an animal..

Ever been to the vet? And seriously, dude...cold conditions IN THE MIDDLE OF A HEAT WAVE?

    I think people who back the police no matter what are just being lazy thinkers..

I think people who trash the police no matter what are usually criminals.

    For them Police fit into the "good guy/ hero" mental box and no amount of evidence to the contrary will make them consider that the good guy following bad orders is no hero.

For me, the guy who expects to carry the argument with personal potshots and an overflowing font of resentment and cynicism is a bitter loser, and best ignored. How are you a better role model for heroism than a rude cop?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 8:04:42 PM


Zebulon: Really? Do I really strike you as someone who only knows rigidity, conformity and suppression? Why be so divisive? I'm actually the sort of person who thinks that what happens to one Canadian, no matter where they live, happens to us all, because it has the potential to diminish us all as a nation, or raise us up, depending on what it is. These events definitely diminished us.

Posted by: Anthony C | 2010-07-19 8:24:06 PM


    Shane, the double-talk is all yours. There was property damage, and there was peaceful protest. The only person attempting to conflate the two is you, in your false characterization of the arguments of those who are protesting the actions of the police.

Isn’t it strange, Anthony, how property damage seems to accompany almost all of these “peaceful” protests? And how many of the protesters were heard refusing to condemn the destruction, with such quotes for the ages as “It’s only fucking glass, man!” Protests of any sort are disruptive, anti-democratic, and technically illegal, since they block traffic.

    I am a Torontonian. I saw the damage, which actually was not as extensive as the mainstream media made it out to be.

The mainstream media described two torched police cars and many broken windows. One vandal alone did over $300,000 in damage. How is this inaccurate? And what makes you think you saw all the damage?

    I know someone who was arrested at Queen's Park, which was supposed to be the designated protest area, during a non-violent non-demonstration, which only turned violent when the police moved in, told people to clear out, then penned them in so they couldn't.

Do not make excuses. It should not have turned violent AT ALL, FOR ANY REASON, unless the police physically attacked and caused reasonable fear for personal safety. And was this someone there the whole time, or was he being pursued by the police? You don’t say. And I have learned to pay as much attention to what people don’t say as to what they do say. You see, the government isn’t the only party who spins.

    My friend was knocked to the ground, scooped up, bound by his wrists, and held in a cage in the detention centre for 23 hours, his wrists bound the entire time, without being able to call a lawyer, or even his mother.

All of that is pretty typical treatment for an uncooperative activist. None of it is illegal.

    His only crime, as far as he can tell (he was never charged) was not moving fast enough. He was not Black Block, he was not violent, he's not even particularly political. But he did know that something very wrong was happening in our city, namely the out-of-control police actions, and felt he needed to add his voice to those who were saying it had to stop.

Translation: He’s political, but he doesn’t strap explosives to his chest, so he’s not “particularly” political. See, there we have the wordplay again. That is a totally subjective term that can mean whatever you want it to mean. If you’re political enough to attend protests, you’re a sight more political than the great majority of the population. So by what yardstick do you measure?

    If you know Toronto at all, you'll know that Queen's Park is nowhere near the G20 security zone. The people gathered there were no threat to the delegates.

YOU ARE LYING. I have walked from where the security zone was to Queen’s Park, several times. Queen’s Park is barely 1600 metres from Wellington Street, which marked the security zone’s northern perimeter. That’s a 20-minute stroll or a 10-minute jog. “Nowhere near,” my ass. Tell me another, Anthony.

    As for people not being beaten, that is patently false. Many people were in fact beaten rather badly, but were refused medical attention.

Taken to holding cells and beaten up, or rapped on the elbow in the heat of the fracas? There’s a big difference, you know. And how convenient that they refuse medical attention, because then no third party can corroborate their story. This always seems to happen to fringe types, doesn’t it?

    One middle-aged amputee, who again was neither an anarchist nor violent, actually had his prosthetic leg ripped off by the police and was told to hop.

That’s his story. I’ll wait and see what comes out at the trial; often these exchanges are a good deal less one-sided than the complainant lets on. I always get suspicious when people go to the newspapers first, and lawyer second.

    You're probably the sort of person who would laugh at that, but that treatment constitutes mental torture.

Says who?

    Women in the detention centre were threatened with rape.

Again, proof? Do you really think many cops would be dumb enough to do that in front of hundreds of witnesses?

    Also mental torture. The list goes on and on.

Yes, it does. The first thing any protester does once arrested is scream police brutality. Protesters do a lot of screaming; they seem to enjoy it. But lately, fewer and fewer are listening, and that really makes them mad.

    Your statement that most of the people released without charge were probably guilty and will go unpunished is astounding.

I did not say “most”; I said “many.”

    Guilty of what? Of exercising their right to peacefully protest policies of their government they disagree with?

Technically, the freedom to peacefully assemble is not unlimited; you cannot hold a rally any old where, any old time it suits you. Certainly you have no Charter right to bring the city to a halt just because you have a cause. That interferes with the rights of other citizens who just want to go about their business in peace, but can’t, because the “not particularly political” types are mad, dammit.

    Of being innocent bystanders in the wrong place at the wrong time? (And there were plenty of those.)

How many of those picked up were not involved in the protesting? Do you include in this total the people at Queen’s Park, in the designated protest zone, who did not become violent “until”? Can you give me a number? Can you give me hard proof of any sort? Or are we just supposed to trust you and the usual suspects?

    Do you actually hold a crowd of 20 000 peaceful protesters (including grandmothers, church groups, samba bands!) responsible for the actions of a couple of hundred vandals simply because they were able to blend in to the larger group?

I do when many of those interviewed refuse to denounce the violence, and when they know that their gathering will enable this kind of violence, yet do it anyway, and when it is, as mentioned before, illegal and undemocratic.

    Only in the most repressive regimes is this a crime.

To hear you tell it, Canada makes that list.

    Apparently that's the kind of country you want Canada to become.

That’s the kind of country Canada is. And after your dung-headed little frat party at the G20, it will likely become even more so. Look where the public support is pointed, Anthony. Is it pointing at you, or the cops? And why might that be? It’s the people you have to convince, and they’re getting tired of being held hostage.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 8:44:52 PM


I'm actually the sort of person who thinks that what happens to one Canadian, no matter where they live, happens to us all, because it has the potential to diminish us all as a nation, or raise us up, depending on what it is. These events definitely diminished us.

On the contrary. Not putting up with having our streets taken over by loudmouths who insist on having their views heard at any cost does not diminish us; it's a step towards a saner and more civil society. Unlike you, I don’t presume to speak for the Canadian polity, but judging from the initial public response to this incident, Canadians aren’t feeling particularly diminished.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 8:50:09 PM


"You'd think that such Stalinesque conduct on the part of officers would engender much condemnation even from those not affected, but this does not appear to be the case."

Shane: The reason the public is not (yet) condemning the police actions is that they are ignorant due to lousy media coverage, and being outright lied to by people like yourself that weren't even there.

We were there; you were clearly nowhere near Toronto and were hand-fed your opinion from a couple of clips on the evening news.

So why are you trying to spread FUD when you're so completely and obviously clueless as to what actually transpired? You don't know, so shut it already. Maybe you'll even learn something.

As for "O Canada" -- no, it wasn't after the second bar. They waited until it was finished:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qynihO0WFHc

Posted by: Tyson Vickers | 2010-07-19 9:14:26 PM


Anthony C: instead of complaining that someone hurt your feelings by criticizing you, why don't you people in that horrible place start doing something about this issue before it spreads? For far too long, Toronto has been the weak link in Confederation. If you truly care about others, you'll act. But I'm always pessimistic about Ontarians.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-07-19 9:19:06 PM


All the claims of "illegal searches" and "violation of rights" remain simply allegations until the courts decide if it is fact. But please continue to hyperventilate and throw hissy fits if it makes you feel better. Most of us prefer to wait for a judicial decision, not a political one.

Posted by: Alain | 2010-07-19 9:21:25 PM


    Shane: The reason the public is not (yet) condemning the police actions is that they are ignorant due to lousy media coverage, and being outright lied to by people like yourself that weren't even there.

Yes, I know; it’s a conspiracy. [X-Files theme plays.] The media’s in on it. Maybe the Masons and the Illuminati too. It explains everything while proving nothing. And where have I lied? Show me once where I lied. I’ve been saying all along that we don’t have the complete story and likely won’t for weeks or months, so to pass judgement now is premature.

    We were there; you were clearly nowhere near Toronto and were hand-fed your opinion from a couple of clips on the evening news.

Perhaps, but you are also what is known as an ”interested party.” Why should we believe you over the word of journalists who were also there—and several of whose number were also detained? Is the government bribing them to shut them up? Is most of that billion bucks earmarked as hush money?

    So why are you trying to spread FUD when you're so completely and obviously clueless as to what actually transpired? You don't know, so shut it already.

Whose word do we have that you know better, Tyson? Besides yours, I mean? If the best you can do when your accusations are questioned is to tell your questioner to STFU, I think I see the reason the people are lining up behind the cops on this one. Even if everything you say is true, your delivery makes it very hard for anyone to take you seriously.

Maybe you'll even learn something.

Ah, yes, the obligatory “Open your mind.” Or, to paraphrase: “The world doesn’t believe me and doesn’t understand me, but it’s the world that needs to smarten up, not me.”

This is why you bat zero, Tyson. You’re too busy using the bat on the rest of the world to pay any attention to the ball.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-19 10:11:22 PM



"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Posted by: Emeraldeyes | 2010-07-20 1:32:59 AM


I was part of the peaceful demonstration and rally on the weekend after G/20 at the beginning of July and a young man about l7 lifted his shirt to show terrible bruising, and lacerations on his left abdomen. He was beaten by a Toronto cop. Officer ''Bubbles'' Joseph - 54 Division, accosted and arrested a young girl who was blowing bubbles while talking to his colleague. Officer Bubbles is a burly, 6', 200 lbs cop. When officer Bubbles says to the demonstrator ''If one of your bubbles touches me, I'll arrest you'' - and as he's accosting the young girl, his female, slightly built partner looks over in disbelief. If wasn't such a serious matter, it would be hysterically funny because it was the classic, comedic double take. She was having casual, girl/girl talk and quietly asking the demonstrator what her name was as she smiled. The demonstrator said, ''My naaaame issss aaaa.... mystery and continued to blow her bubbles and Officer Bubbles had her arrested and carted away. My question is, didn't that officer have more important things to do like, oh, I don't know... catch a few Black Bloc?

Posted by: Emeraldeyes | 2010-07-20 2:01:32 AM


    I was part of the peaceful demonstration and rally on the weekend after G/20 at the beginning of July and a young man about l7 lifted his shirt to show terrible bruising, and lacerations on his left abdomen.

Would that be the "peaceful" protest that featured two torched police cruisers, millions of dollars worth of broken glass, and looting? And exactly what was this young man doing before he received the "terrible" bruising? Or does that not matter to you?

    Officer ''Bubbles'' Joseph - 54 Division, accosted and arrested a young girl who was blowing bubbles while talking to his colleague. Officer Bubbles is a burly, 6', 200 lbs cop.

So what are you saying? That cops should only be allowed to arrest people of similar size? In that case I'd be a tall order, because I weigh 300 pounds. Unlike this "young girl," though, I have more sense--and too little spare time--to bait the police, especially when they've been entrusted with a matter so serious. And if I recall correctly, she was arrested for an unrelated reason.

I agree Cobra Bubbles was rude, but so were a lot of the punks heckling him, even if the Bubbles Girl wasn't one of them. Perhaps, just as Cobra could have taken a cue from his more sanguine partner, Bubble Girl's compatriots could have followed their friend's example, though many certainly didn't.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-20 6:25:46 AM


"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."

To hear the protesters tell it, everything they did on Saturday was legal. I think they will come to regret that "It's only glass, man" remark.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-07-20 6:47:41 AM


If you people were truly peaceful, and truly wanted to change things, then you would have followed King's strategy of filling the jails. You ought to have sacrificed your freedom for time by testing the law in order to overburden the authorities, expose their flaws, and make the public at large debate the whole issue. Because you insist on making excuses for your actions, this debate centers on you rather than the cops' actions.

Failing to do so puts you in the same place as one of the most pathetic people around today: Marc Emery, who naively thought he could get away with drug dealing in the US. Opportunities like the G-20 appear rarely, and you blew it.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-07-20 6:59:53 AM



"If you people were truly peaceful"
"you blew it"
Surely you meant to say "we" blew it don't you Zebulon. Or are you some how absolved from following the challenging ideals you espouse.

Posted by: Alberta Al | 2010-07-20 10:09:43 AM


Shane, repeating it over and over doesn't make it true unless you are trying to employ the big lie technique. The thousands of protesters in Toronto were a diverse group. Your attempt to lump them all together as participants in or supporters of these violent actions doesn't persuade anyone. You just continue to make yourself look foolish.
However the way in which you use this violence to smear and discredit all the protesters and justify any and all acts of the police and government has caused me to take a more serious look at charges that allowing this violence to occur was part of a deliberate plan. Does it actually sound realistic that you spend a billion dollars on a force of 20 000, state of the art sound cannons, water cannons, riot gear, star chamber prison and then can't stop a handful of nefarious black bloc provocateurs? You can't even put out a burning police cruiser until the image has been seared into the minds of every Canadian. When you look back at Harpers press statements, he comes in right on cue holding up the violent protests as a justification for the billion. This seems a little too convenient.

Posted by: Alberta Al | 2010-07-20 10:17:53 AM


For a good analysis on the differences between the west (those who uphold the Western Standard) and the Toronto trolls who have hijacked this once-proud website, look no further than Mark Milke's essay, Page A10 in today's National Post.

It goes a long way to explain why the Torontonian whiners exhibit provable evidence of having a chronically oppressed mindset.

And why western Canadians take a much more positive outlook on life's challenges and how they can be overcome.

Posted by: set you free | 2010-07-20 10:22:11 AM


Who's this "we"? These events occurred in Toronto. Those rich people had the golden opportunity to defend freedom and completely blew it with their lazy, idle ways. They exposed their weaknesses, not any abuse by the authorities. If only they showed as much interest in their cause as they did destroying property. Even then, what should have been a Birmingham in 1963 became an Albany, Georgia, where the cops defeated the Civil Rights Movement. This is what happens when you let Toronto people do anything - they're too spoiled rotten to be reliable. Next time, keep the rich brats away and let REAL people like Albertans do it.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-07-20 10:23:39 AM


Yes we Albertans are certainly REAL. Real mavericks for instance, with the same political party for the last 40 years. And now the great "whie" hope the Wild Rose party is upset because the current government is not giving away our oil fast enough or cheap enough to suit them. But I digress.
Zebulon they way in which you dismiss 5 to 6 million Torontonians puts me in mind of some gold ol boys down south talking about millions of Mexicans or Black folks.

Posted by: Alberta Al | 2010-07-20 10:40:30 AM



The comments to this entry are closed.