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Monday, June 28, 2010
I was just harassed by Toronto Police [updated]
It happened just a few minutes ago. I was sitting down on University Avenue, when a group of police officers approached me and said they wanted to talk to me. Stunned, I opened my mouth getting ready to reply to the request, when one of the officers at the top of his lungs yelled: "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU THINK!"
Another officer said they didn't want to hear about my rights.
They then proceeded to demand I remove the earphones from my ears, forcing me to get off the phone with my colleague. I told them I was on the phone to which another officer responded, "we don't care."
Then they said they wanted to search my bag, because I was "wearing a black shirt". To which I replied, that I did not consent to any searches. I told them that I would not resist them, and that any search they conducted was under protest. They simply said, "we don't care. We want to make sure you don't have any bombs to kill us with."
They demanded I present identification, once again I complied under protest. To which they told me they didn't care again.
Then one of the officers told me that, and I quote, that I (me) "don't care about the security of the city." To which I protested. They then called me "ignorant".
I asked them why they were using such vulgar language with me, and they simply denied that any such language had been used. Despite having literally sworn at me multiple times, seconds prior.
There was one police officer, who was mostly quiet, who seemed to be looking at me somewhat sympathetically. I sensed that he was not comfortable with what his fellow officers were doing.
But I was just subjected to an warrentless, suspicionless search, contrary to my Charter Rights. And when I protested my treatment, I was repeatedly told that they "don't care". They accused me of not caring about the security of Toronto, and they called me ignorant twice. I should note that I was never given any chance to really say much to them at all, so I can only assume that they had some prior knowledge of who I was.
I assert that I was just criminally harassed by the Toronto Police. And I would swear a legal affidavit on the above facts.
Update: Some additional facts I left out: they demanded my phone number, and they wrote down all my information on some slip. I also can't emphasize the amount of hostility that was directed towards me.
Update 2: More illegal search and seizure in Toronto. This guy was actually treated nicer than I was. Probably because he had the benefit of witnesses and people video taping him.
Update 3: A Creative Revolution muses: "Just want to say that Conservatives have been fucking away our rights for a few years now, and Mike supported this erosion by simply being a conservative and voting for it." -- this is one of a few left-wing blogs that is accusing me of being a Conservative Party supporter. Not sure why. I mean, I've been publicly criticizing Stephen Harper now since... I don't know... 2006 or something. I'm too lazy to go back and compile a list of posts. Google's pretty good at that.
But in any case, we might want to pay some attention to all three levels of government that, on the face of it, represent all three political parties. The cheers of support seem to be pretty unanimous from our NDP mayor, to the Liberal Premier.
Anyways, a note to uninformed lefties: libertarianism and conservatism are not the same thing.
Also more from: Stageleft, Jay Currie, Ghost of a Flea, Blazing Cat Fur, Kathy Shaidle, Quotulatiousness, Bene Diction Blogs On, The Galloping Beaver.
Posted by Mike Brock on June 28, 2010 in G20 | Permalink
Comments
I assert that I was just criminally harassed by the Toronto Police. And I would swear a legal affidavit on the above facts.
So. Are you going to?
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-06-28 7:01:17 PM
Your rights were suspended by the state, in the interest of the state, as determined by the state.
In all reasonable likelihood you are simply one of many thousands of other ordinary citizens who have recently discovered that their rights are not really rights at all - because real rights cannot be so easily taken away.
I would also bet a significant portion of my next pay cheque that should you pursue this violation of what you perceive are your rights you will quickly discover that there is no redress available to you - as will be decided by the state, in the interests of the state.
Posted by: stageleft | 2010-06-28 7:16:33 PM
My sympathies Mike. Hopefully you have witnesses to back you up on this one.
I don't think they recognized you, I think they just lost it at the sight of another black shirted person. They're on edge. Which is very dangerous. Panicky cops are the last thing we need right now.
Posted by: Publius | 2010-06-28 7:17:35 PM
It's too bad you couldn't point the cops to Section 7 and Section 8 of the Charter.
Of course, in reply they'd probably just cite Section 1.
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2010-06-28 7:18:38 PM
I think everyone should wear a black shirt tomorrow!
Posted by: Peter | 2010-06-28 7:23:51 PM
They probably care about the state of security in Toronto, but not in the way you might think. Police don't want law and order, quite the contrary. This little outbreak of mischief in TO probably boosted their budget by a fairly healthy number. A lot of overtime is being paid out, and their profile just got a little bit higher. Their associations are going to jump all over this, and a big round of telephone solicitation will commence immediately.
As for using a little rough language, they were just baiting you. You made a wise choice by not back talking. Once things begin to escalate, the only possible ending involves cuts, bruises, and a sore neck. You seem a little old to be just now losing your cherry in your experience with pissed off cops. Most of us learned that routine before high school.
Posted by: dp | 2010-06-28 7:25:20 PM
stageleft
"In all reasonable likelihood you are simply one of many thousands of other ordinary citizens who have recently discovered that their rights are not really rights at all - because real rights cannot be so easily taken away."
Let me get this straight.
In actuality, the average protestor wanted the gov't to implement the protestor's agenda. As the average protestor leans left, surely, this would mean that I would be inconvenienced at the very least or punished at worst...again, at the protestor's behest.
So, now, the average protestor finds themselves upset that this powerful state, fed and financed by the power of protestor's previous quests, is now powerful enough to turn on them at a moments notice.
Colour me surprised! :-)
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2010-06-28 7:27:44 PM
@Publius: That's exactly the sort of attitude that will allow this to happen time and time again - it should not matter whether or not Mike was recognized, or even a recognizable person, should it?
Posted by: stageleft | 2010-06-28 7:34:18 PM
By the way, stageleft:
Please feel free to drop in any time. Your contributions are appreciated. I lurk over at your place quite often.
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2010-06-28 7:38:55 PM
"I can only assume that they had some prior knowledge of who I was"
Yes. Because in the largest city in the country, everyone can pick out the great Mike Brock.
I don't care if you pinky-swear to the above facts, you can't help anyone without making a formal complaint.
Posted by: Ego much? | 2010-06-28 7:43:13 PM
Ego,
The reason I said that, is because they seemed to be criticizing me as if they were aware of some sort of political positions I held without me having saying anything to them. It almost makes me think they were monitoring Twitter or something. Because I had indicated on Twitter where I was minutes earlier.
Posted by: Mike Brock | 2010-06-28 7:47:25 PM
Hi On the way to the protest tonite I saw numerous people having their bags searched at University and College. NUMEROUS. I have a long black shirt on over white capris and I was stared at long and hard numerous times and several cops moved towards me but no search. Whew they would have found my ripe apple. Seriously though, NUMEROUS people.
Posted by: JJ | 2010-06-28 7:49:06 PM
Did you ask for their badge number(s)? That is how you seek justice against this kind of abuse.
Posted by: anonx0rz | 2010-06-28 7:53:21 PM
Isn't it sad? Toronto Police reporting to the lefty David Miller? OPP reporting to Liberal McGuinty.
If only Harper were in charge, this never would have happened today.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2010-06-28 8:28:17 PM
I should note that I was never given any chance to really say much to them at all, so I can only assume that they had some prior knowledge of who I was.
Posted by Mike Brock on June 28, 2010
The only possible explanation is that one night when you were sleeping CSIS agents secretly entered your home and implanted a tracking device on you. Do you feel that you are being followed all the time or that someone is watching you? There is one way to find out if a tracking device was implanted into you. The signal that the device sends out is audible to dogs. Go to the nearest pound and if the dogs start barking you know you have one on you. Unfortunately if you try to remove the device, CSIS has a satellite which will fire a laser and vaporize you. Hope this helps.
Posted by: The Stig | 2010-06-28 8:41:33 PM
Ontario cops are totally useless. Don't break the law if only to avoid having anything to do with them. My experience with them can be summed up in one instance: they refused my 911 call because it wasn't their problem. I told them to forget it, while a real criminal walks free. Oh well, it's your f-ed up city, you people can suffer the consequences.
Meanwhile, my experiences with other police services have been positive, even delightful. Calgary cops = awesome. NYPD = heroes. Alabama State Patrol = cool.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-06-28 8:49:20 PM
If only Harper were in charge, this never would have happened today.
I wish I could agree, h20, but though I'm generally well-disposed towards Harper, I don't think much would have changed with him in charge, based on the fact that hasn't done anything about the lawlessness in Caledonia. Granted, it's not really his jurisdiction--it actually falls on Pretty Boy McGuinty's shoulders--but the rule of law has been allowed to go by the wayside. Send in the troops, and crush the suckers.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-06-28 8:54:01 PM
I thought all you Shotgun writers wore hunting plaid. :-)
Posted by: Antonia | 2010-06-28 8:55:56 PM
Antonia,
Only on weekends.
We wear our duck-billed caps all the time, though.
You should see our annual Elmer Fudd impersonation contest. Peter Jaworski always, always wins.
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2010-06-28 9:04:44 PM
Shane,
So what you are in fact noticing is that at every level of gov't, the lawless natives or black bloc are wreaking havoc and not being stopped.
Meanwhile, innocent protestors and residents of Caledonia are being harassed.
Is there a common thread?
HINT, did you happen to catch my earlier post?
"In actuality, the average protestor wanted the gov't to implement the protestor's agenda. As the average protestor leans left, surely, this would mean that I would be inconvenienced at the very least or punished at worst...again, at the protestor's behest.
So, now, the average protestor finds themselves upset that this powerful state, fed and financed by the power of protestor's previous quests, is now powerful enough to turn on them at a moments notice."
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2010-06-28 9:11:36 PM
Expect this attitude to become standard practice in Fascist Toronto.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-06-28 9:21:19 PM
Some additional facts I left out: they demanded my phone number, and they wrote down all my information on some slip.
Posted by Mike Brock on June 28, 2010
Of course Brock said last week he would never talk or give any information to the cops.
Monday, June 14, 2010
Don't talk to the police.
Posted by: The Stig | 2010-06-28 9:27:56 PM
Mike,
The more I think about it, the more I think your problem had less to do with what you were wearing and more to do with your attitude.
By that I mean, you weren't subservient enough to the badge and the uniform. You thought before obeying orders. How impertinent of you! How impious! How impudent!
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2010-06-28 9:30:10 PM
'Send in the troops, crush the suckers.'
But our troops are in Afghanistan, fighting the War on Terror, 'so we don't have to fight them here' or something like that.
Harper said C.F.'s would never 'cut and run' yet now he's talking about a 'negotiated settlement' with the 'more friendly' elements of the Taliban.
Poor Minority Leader Steve. So many USA Wars to fight, so little time and $$ to fight them all.
Posted by: jeff franklin | 2010-06-28 9:40:07 PM
Jeff,
Not sure what you want. Are you proposing we cut and run or do you want Steve to commit the troops to crush the suckers in Afghanistan?
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2010-06-28 9:44:46 PM
Jeff: Iggy and Jack have been asking - no, demanding - negotiations for years. This is in spite of their parties' support for sending them there in the first place. Jack couldn't lick Chretien's feet fast enough, even over Canada's less than secret involvement in Iraq. Mr. Harper believes, as most do, in peace with honor.
It looks as if all that Toronto police brutality against non-whites there now extends to all. Face facts, they're the modern equivalent of the slave patrol.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-06-28 9:58:53 PM
I'd highly recommend that you file a complaint with the OIPRD (Office of the Independent Police Review Director).
Posted by: Mo | 2010-06-28 10:03:35 PM
I thought all you Shotgun writers wore hunting plaid.
Hunters wear breakup camo or blaze orange, not plaid. You're thinking of lumberjacks.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-06-28 10:30:47 PM
I'm still not following your point, h20. Personally I think they target individuals rather than large groups because it's safer, not because it's more just. The police today are often truly terrified of the people they serve. Look at the firepower they bring to subdue a guy with a Lego pistol in his drawer, or the level of force they use to subdue a doltish tourist at YVR, resulting the latter's death. Yet when confronted with large angry mobs--precisely the time when they should be getting out the machine guns--they stand back and do nothing, adding insult to injury by charging anyone who deigns to do it for them.
Frankly, I don't understand why cops are so afraid. Even more so in the States than here, it's never been safer to be on the job. In 1971, New York City alone was averaging 30 patrolmen killed per year--nearly three a month. Today that's more like the annual total. I can understand frustration--bleeding-heart judges and suffocatingly byzantine rules of evidence and all that--but not the fear.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-06-28 10:39:18 PM
stop crying about it ....big deal you were searched ....to be honest after seeing what the police had to put up with from thousands of ppl i would expect that type of attitude from them ..id like to see how all your would react under that type of pressure and constant blabber
Posted by: bill | 2010-06-28 10:44:37 PM
h2o273kk9:
The great majority of C.F's are committed in Afghanistan till 2011. Therefore, they are unavailable to help quell any Canadian Civil unrest.
When they finally do arrive back in Canada, they'll need a period to rest and re-equip.
Thankfully, they were denied a full combat role in Iraq, by our last Honourable P.M. Jean Chretien.
Had it been up to our current Minority P.M. Stephen 'Rapture Boy' Harper, C.F.'s would have suffered many KIA and wounded in an illegal and immoral War based on @950 Lies as per GWB and his USA cabal of chicken hawk war mongers.
Does Stevie talk to the same God who told GWB to invade and 'liberate' Iraq??
Most people stop believing in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and an Old White Man in the Sky when they're about 8 years old.
But not our Minority Leading, FOX NEWS appearing, Revlon wearing GWB wanna be 'heroic' Harper.
So, flip floppin' Steve who said Canada would never 'cut and run' is now proposing a negotiated settlement with the Taliban. No doubt much to the chagrin of his CRAPer Rapture Army.
Taliban Stevie??
Posted by: jeff franklin | 2010-06-28 10:44:46 PM
"Thankfully, they were denied a full combat role in Iraq, by our last Honourable P.M. Jean Chretien."
But you have no problems with other forms of involvement? Face facts, Lyin' Jean made a deal with President Bush over Iraq, and you people bought into it. Is it any surprise that he quit just a few months later? Second worst PM ever, second only to Pierre the Terrible.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-06-28 11:19:14 PM
Mr. Brock, so unfortunate. But you weren't fingered during a strip search as one young woman was down at the detention centre. So forgive me if I don't have much sympathy. Like you, she didn't have her wits about her to ask for a badge # as she was being terrified.
Posted by: Toe | 2010-06-28 11:45:06 PM
This is normal behaviour for those humans who are stressed and have police authority. It could have been much worse. Thank God this is Canada. I have a degree of wisdom about this, having been - and still am - on both sides of this police/public fence. In Canada, when directed by police, you comply. Say nothing or as little as possible. Leave the area, or, better, don't be there in the first place. Don't think you know better than the cop you confront. The cop wants you to comply. After you comply, go around the corner to talk with your lawyer whom you have on a retainer. He will be waiting there for you. If you don't have a lawyer, one will be provided for you on the taxpayers' dollar - because street people, spaced out drug addicts have 'free' access to the justice system. You can then make use of the Bill Gates-provided computers at your local library to access free of charge your handy-dandy blog to place comments that are more inane than mine.
Posted by: Agha Ali Arkhan | 2010-06-28 11:45:56 PM
Toe,
I'm sorry, but this isn't about whether or not my treatment was worse or better than anyone else's. I am not asking for sympathy. I am bringing a very serious issue to the forefront that involves the rights of every single citizen in this country, up to and including the alleged sexual assault of the woman you describe.
The individual circumstances of police abuse of power are not irrelevant, but the same principle applies to all of these cases: we are -- as described by the Charter -- entitled to: "the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."
"Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."
"Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned."
And the definition of "fundamental justice" has a robust definition that has been articulated by the Supreme Court, that is not subject to mere procedural changes and orders-in-council by the government.
You cannot treat anyone's rights being violated by the state as any less important than any other, because of the sacrosanct nature of those rights.
This isn't a pissing war. I don't want your sympathy. I want my rights back.
Posted by: Mike Brock | 2010-06-29 12:00:13 AM
Mike: Your rights, though intact, are hard to see in a tornado.
Posted by: Agha Ali Arkhan | 2010-06-29 12:11:20 AM
What exactly is wrong with Toe, anyway? It's not like Mike is denying that others were mistreated...
Ahh, now I see. A leftie with all sorts of preconceptions -- one might even say biases -- against non-lefties.
I might be wrong, of course.
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2010-06-29 12:12:07 AM
Cops consider anyone who does not jump when told to jump, a shit disturber. Talking back or not groveling simply confirms their suspicion. You are supposed to respect and pay homage to the uniform , no matter if it is worn by a power tripping jerk (or jerkess). Remember Mike, by the time a cop graduates he (she) should be completely devoid of common sense. You simply learned something most of us learn at some point in our lives. Mind you...I have met some cops that are truly nice people, but that only means that the system that trains them has failed.
Posted by: peterj | 2010-06-29 12:33:03 AM
But it was subject to mere procedural changes and that took 3 levels of gov't working together as well as the Chief of Police requesting extraordinary rights. Fundamental Justice seems more a fiction right now than a reality. A line has been crossed, one that cannot be undone, Canada's reputation has been sullied and this G-20 is a mirror image of what happened in Pittsburgh. On purpose. Ask the protesters there what happened to their 1st Amendment. Good Luck and keep us posted.
Posted by: Toe | 2010-06-29 12:37:10 AM
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2010/06/i-was-just-harassed-by-toronto-police.html
Posted by: Poster | 2010-06-29 2:12:16 AM
Every human being benefiting from living in Canada has fundamental common law constitutional and Charter rights and freedoms and only subject to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure and the right to not be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. What about that, don't some people get? Stand up for your rights! You have a DUTY to do so, not only for you benefit, but to protect future generations to be able to do the same.
Posted by: Poster | 2010-06-29 2:13:13 AM
Your rights are intact, Mike. They're simply not unlimited. Far more worrying is when police cease to enforce the law, for then...for what reason were they there???
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-06-29 6:29:34 AM
Strip searching is not the ultimate humiliation so many people claim. Hell, you pay your doctor to do essentially the same thing. I thought you "progressive" types were at ease with your bodies. Don't worry--snapshots of you in the buff probably won't surface on the Net. :-)
Frankly, I'd rather disrobe (even in public) and be let go in two minutes than be thrown into a cage for a day. I wonder what the cops would do if I offered to disrobe right there. According to several court rulings, it's not illegal in Canada.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-06-29 6:34:02 AM
When you are hanging about in an area which has been designated as at least temporarily under a form of martial law , then you should be expected to answer a few questions without the mandatory humming and hawing about your rights and your feelings . Your rights have been temporarily suspended for the greater good so don`t expect to be treated like you were in Disneyland.
Posted by: daveh | 2010-06-29 7:03:31 AM
I don't want your sympathy. I want my rights back.
Posted by: Mike Brock | 2010-06-29 12:00:13 AM
BS. You went looking for trouble and you found it. Now you're crying. Typical of blowhards like you.
so I can only assume that they had some prior knowledge of who I was.
Posted by Mike Brock on June 28, 2010
It gets better. Now Brock thinks there is a police conspiracy against him. Do fill us in on why the police would target a nobody like you.
Posted by: The Stig | 2010-06-29 7:06:35 AM
This is outrageous. I am very sorry this happened to you, Mike.
Posted by: Warren Kinsella | 2010-06-29 7:10:33 AM
Hi Mike
You want to know what i like doing when a cop asks to see my id. i like to say "certainly sir" as i get it out of my wallet. then as he's looking at it we make a little small talk, perhaps about this crazy protesting going on or maybe just how nice and sunny it is. then when he hands it back to me we smile and he usually says "thank you sir" TO ME. can you believe it? then i go on my merry way knowing that i have made his job a little easier today. i know i have rights and all that, but this just seem to make my life a little less stressful.
Posted by: rgraham4444 | 2010-06-29 7:22:18 AM
The divide between Conservatives, Liberals, and Libertarians is rather interesting isn't it? I would hope it would make all supporters of liberty think twice about associating themselves with Conservatives.
Posted by: Charles | 2010-06-29 7:29:39 AM
If this happened in my city, I'd be concerned. But this occurs in Fascist Apartheid Ontario, so it's justice as far as I'm concerned. This in fact has been going on for decades, just only on non-whites. The rich, aristocratic, privileged attitude of white Ontarians isolated them from any and all negative things in their little world - hence their concern for other issues. Worse, they believed the police service worked for and not against them. Hence, keeping non-whites out of white neighborhoods.
It looks like this partnership has eroded into an overall, race-neutral, us versus them mentality with the authorities. Now you get to live like everyone else. This explains why this change has become such a shock to whites. Thank goodness I don't live there.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2010-06-29 7:38:01 AM
We don't live in the country we thought we did, but all you oh so political citizens can do is snipe at each other. You're arguing over who's going to bail while water rushes over the gunwales. Get a grip and try and understand who's corpse it is you are arguing over.
Posted by: rendered extraordinarily unpatriotic | 2010-06-29 7:39:36 AM
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