Western Standard

The Shotgun Blog

« A New Call for Rep by Pop | Main | Mandatory minimums and a lack of basic common sense »

Thursday, May 06, 2010

UK voters take note of the Greek crisis

History is being made today in both the United Kingdom and in Greece. In the UK the British people are preparing to vote in what is being characterized as the closest race in decades. Indeed it has been an interesting race to watch, but it is not the rise of the Liberal Democrats or the prospect of a hung Parliament that makes this race important. It is the burden and responsibility that the next government is going to have to take on.

British finances are in shambles and the debt is going to act like an anvil on their economy. No political party, with the exception of the UKIP, have a real plan to deal with the deficit. Each party claims that they will cut but at the same time provides long lists of things that they will not cut. There appears to be realization that something has to be done but no political will to do anything.

The reason this is important can be observed in what is perhaps the more important event: the Greek Parliament is going to vote on the ‘austerity measures’ aimed at rescuing Greek finances. In one way the proposed cuts are drastic in another way they are extremely modest. The plan is to cut the deficit down to 3% of the economy from 13.6%. Note that they do not have a plan to have a surplus; they merely hope to have a smaller deficit in four years. The Greek government, even with the proposed bailout, is unwilling or unable to take on the real core problems of their fiscal finances.

I can actually understand their perspective. The austerity measures have not even been voted on yet and there have already been riots with fatalities. You would hope that those deaths would cool the hot heads, but unions and the Communist Party are still planning on bringing the country to a standstill with protests and strikes. It is hard to escape the feeling that Greece is descending into chaos. The government is trying to scratch out the bare minimum that it would need to do to save Greece from complete collapse. But the large unions and other interest groups refuse to do their part. It seems that they would rather watch Greece burn than retire at 63.

So I hope that the voters and politicians of the UK have taken note of what is happening in Greece. And I hope that they remember it when they make their decisions today, and their decisions in the future.

Posted by Hugh MacIntyre on May 6, 2010 | Permalink

Comments

Socialists take note: Greece is what happens when, as Margaret Thatcher put it, you run out of other people's money to spend.

Posted by: Leigh Patrick Sullivan | 2010-05-06 7:25:15 AM


One great idea would be no welfare for immigrants, if you are coming to the country you must support yourself financially.

Cuts in public employee pay and pensions as well as cuts in the welfare payments for everyone would help spread it to more people, thus less painful.

The faster this gets done, the less pain there would have to be. Should have been done a decade ago. The same is true here in America, of course.

Posted by: Floyd Looney | 2010-05-06 7:26:20 AM


Floyd,

Your first idea would only be fair if immigrants were expected to pay a lower tax than everyone else. Then it would have to be fixed at some rate that will ensure that they are only paying for programs that they have access to (such as justice and defence). I don't think that is very practical.

Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2010-05-06 7:59:21 AM


Is anyone surprised? No perquisite, privilege, boon, benefit, or stipend is so bitterly fought for as the one which is undeserved. Innocent people have died in this rioting. As far as I'm concerned the police should start using live ammunition, and anyone carrying a stone or petrol bomb should be targeted the way a man with a gun is targeted.

Am I the only person left in the world who thinks that shooting these terrorists is preferable to letting them torch the hood?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-06 8:35:32 AM


I think, Hugh, that Floyd's idea was not meant to apply to naturalized, established immigrants. Clearly you can't hold an immigrant who became a citizen 40 years ago and has worked all that time to the same standard as someone who just got off the boat and has contributed nothing as yet.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-06 8:37:58 AM


Does anyone have any studies which should the proportion of new immigrants who are on welfare either in Canada or the U.S.? I'd love to see the stats.

Posted by: Charles | 2010-05-06 10:15:48 AM


Once a country loses enough of the middle class wealth to welfare state egalitarianism, there is not enough of other peoples money to loot to pay for all those false promises offered by the ruling class politicians. Once that happens, the circle of irrationality is complete and like thugs (unions) and savages, they eat each other. Greece will, if not bolstered temporarily by other people's money, descend into civil war and or despotism. Look to the US dollar (cash) becoming the basis for an increased underground private sector tourist economy not unlike the dying days of the Soviet Union.

England's future is a little more pivotal as their middle class still has something to lose and could support the kind of tough love a la Thatcher that is required to roll back Leviathan. However, David Cameron is nowhere near principled enough to attempt what Thatcher was capable of nor is the electorate as rational thanks to thirty more years of green and craven curricula. Otherwise, just more taxes (and or a drastically devalued Pound) until private wealth is gone or hidden, then, Greece all over.

Who is John Galt?

Posted by: John Chittick | 2010-05-06 11:44:27 AM


Charles,

I have never seen a study myself but I have heard other people mention studies that show that they tend not to use social welfare as much as locals. So take that for what it is.

John,

I have to admit Atlas Shrugged is much on my mind whenever I think of the Greek crisis.

Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2010-05-06 12:13:45 PM


The comments here are just sad. Money over people, with religions input as, "shoot them". I hope you guys are never on the other side, looking in.

Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2010-05-06 4:57:15 PM


Oh, and as far as the election in the UK goes, Go Liberal Democrats!!

Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2010-05-06 4:59:10 PM


The Liberal Democrats are a party of big government, pro-European Union, politically correct stooges. The only party that truly has a coherent plan for Britain are the UKIP(United Kingdom Independence Party). They will hold a referendum on continued British membership in the European Union. They will not let excessive EU social policies strangle Britain's economy. The Liberal Democrats are politically correct(supported the prosecution of a minister who spoke out against homosexual lifestyle - so much for the Liberal Democrats and Labour's support of free speech), social liberals who also favor big government spending programs. They are not like the classical liberals who dominated the British Liberal Party that fell apart with Labour's rise to power in 1945.
The only positive thing that might come from the chaos in Greece is a restructuring of the current political arrangement. Greece has two main parties(the center-left socialists and the moderately pro-big spending supposedly business friendly center-right New Democracy party). There is also another 15%=20% of the population that is hardcore left. They support the Communists and other radical left groups. These parties have deep influence in several of the demonstrating unions. My hope is that the ridiculous breakdown of law and order(spoiled unions run amok) plus the major economic changes that are required will lead to the public turning away from these parties. My hope is that the public will be turned off to the Greek left in the same way that the 1967-1974 military dictatorship crippled the Greek right. Then, maybe the Greek public will learn that big government comes with a hefty price tag! My hope will be that what emerges are a left and right in Greece that are truly pro-free market and supports limited government(like the Liberal and Labour Parties in Australia). This country has a vibrant economy where school choice, deregulation, and falling corporate tax rates. The big differences among the party's there seems more limited to cultural issues. May Greece follow this path!

Posted by: Eddy | 2010-05-06 6:42:49 PM


Hiya Eddy, I know squat about the UKs politics. I am sure they are all the same, just like our politicians. I just say Go Dem Libs, cause they say they would legalize maryjane. Good enough to get my vote :) I would also add that all governments are for big government, even if they say otherwise. But you go ahead and believe them if you like. How many times do you have to be lied to before you realize the political system is not to be taken seriously.

Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2010-05-06 7:08:26 PM


Steve, if your argument is true then they are probably lying about legalization. So, aren't you wasting your vote. Sorry, I rather go down swinging then feign indifference.

Posted by: Eddy | 2010-05-06 7:24:33 PM


I just say Go Dem Libs, cause they say they would legalize maryjane. Good enough to get my vote :)

You mean the same way burglars could be expected to vote for party that promised to legalize burglary?

How many times do you have to be lied to before you realize the political system is not to be taken seriously.

Do you expect to be taken seriously, with remarks like the above?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-06 8:16:06 PM


The comments here are just sad. Money over people, with religions input as, "shoot them". I hope you guys are never on the other side, looking in.

Even if I were, Steve, I'm pretty certain I'd never burn a building to the ground with people trapped inside. That's called mass murder. I know you don't mind being an accessory to murder, but some of us have higher standards.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-06 8:17:46 PM


Your probably right Eddy. I don't have any faith in any political party anymore. Too many vested interests. I'm just joking around. Stirring the pot if you will. Trolling. You can safely ignore me. I honestly don't know anything about the politics in Britain. But good luck to you guys. I hope you get a government that actually cares about you.

"I know you don't mind being an accessory to murder, but some of us have higher standards."

Says the guy advocating shooting people. I guess your idea of a higher standard is to be the murderer. How do you reconcile that attitude with your religion? Seriously Shane. How Christian is that?

Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2010-05-06 8:52:20 PM


I don't have any faith in any political party anymore. Too many vested interests. I'm just joking around. Stirring the pot if you will. Trolling.

I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die from that surprise.

Says the guy advocating shooting people.

Shooting wannabe murderers.

I guess your idea of a higher standard is to be the murderer.

Shooting people whose aim is to do violence is not murder, though, is it?

How do you reconcile that attitude with your religion?

Through the fact that the Catechism specifically allows the use of lethal force when confronted with lethal force that ignores all attempts at negotiation. Stones and petrol bombs are lethal force.

Seriously Shane. How Christian is that?

Very. You know, Steve, you probably shouldn't pontificate on the subject of Christianity. You seem to know basically nothing about it. First it's a religion of peace and love; then it's a cult of baby-raping and baby-killing. Then it's a religion of peace and love; then it's a cult of baby-raping and baby-killing. Basically it's your favourite whipping boy, presented when you can bring nothing of substance to the table. But then, that would require a functioning brain, wouldn't it?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-06 9:15:25 PM


"Shooting people whose aim is to do violence is not murder, though, is it?"

Uh, yes, it is. If you know that is his aim, you should try to prevent it, not just out and out shoot him.

"Through the fact that the Catechism specifically allows the use of lethal force when confronted with lethal force that ignores all attempts at negotiation. Stones and petrol bombs are lethal force."

I see, and how does a drug dealer fit this scenario? You think they are all running around with guns shooting at people? I've never met one of those types, only in the media.

"Very. You know, Steve, you probably shouldn't pontificate on the subject of Christianity. You seem to know basically nothing about it. First it's a religion of peace and love; then it's a cult of baby-raping and baby-killing. Then it's a religion of peace and love; then it's a cult of baby-raping and baby-killing. Basically it's your favourite whipping boy, presented when you can bring nothing of substance to the table. But then, that would require a functioning brain, wouldn't it?"

I know enough about it to know what Christ had to say, and what you are saying now is conflicting. Christ, as I understand it, was about peace and love for your fellow man. If he was against that, let me know. Your church today is about everything but that.
So its too bad you Christians aren't more Christ like.

Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2010-05-07 1:36:33 AM


Hugh,

Anecdotally, I've always had the impression that immigrants work much harder than anyone else, but I'd love to see the stats to prove my hypothesis.

Posted by: Charles | 2010-05-07 6:25:15 AM


Uh, yes, it is. If you know that is his aim, you should try to prevent it, not just out and out shoot him.

Shooting him is one way of preventing it. The best and safest way. When a man approaches you with a weapon, the time for talk is over.

I see, and how does a drug dealer fit this scenario?

We’re not talking about drug dealers; we’re talking about napalm-throwing anarchists. Stay on subject, would you, douchebag?

You think they are all running around with guns shooting at people? I've never met one of those types, only in the media.

They carry stones and bombs. And since when did the only type of people in the world consist of those that Steve Bottrell has met? Using that logic the world would contain only stoners.

I know enough about it to know what Christ had to say, and what you are saying now is conflicting.

And what did Christ have to say about facing off with angry crowds carrying petrol bombs?

Christ, as I understand it, was about peace and love for your fellow man. If he was against that, let me know.

And yet He used force to clear the money-changers out of the Temple, which He felt they had defiled with their pettifogging and commercialization of worship. And the Catechism makes clear that self-defence is not a crime, nor a sin.

Your church today is about everything but that.

Oh boy, here we go. What’s the matter, Steve? Were you diddled by a “funny” priest or something when you were a child?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-07 7:34:08 AM


You're riding the bitter bus lately, Steve-O. How come?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2010-05-07 7:34:49 AM


Because I am tired of your calling me a blood soaked killer, then telling me how much you want to kill drug dealers. And any other person, it seems, who doesn't see things your way.

"We’re not talking about drug dealers; we’re talking about napalm-throwing anarchists. Stay on subject, would you, douchebag?"

How do you know they are anarchists? They most likely are Catholics. Isn't that the dominate religion in Greece? So you are advocating shooting your own brethren. Your such a nice guy.
There are plenty of non lethal ways to deal with rock throwers and Molotov tossers. But fuck that ay? Lets just shoot them.

Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2010-05-07 6:28:47 PM



The comments to this entry are closed.