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Tuesday, December 22, 2009
How Big Government Destroyed Detroit
HTPosted by Richard Anderson on December 22, 2009 | Permalink
Comments
Detroit is Zebulon Punk's ideal city.
Let's face it, Detroit built bad cars for years and to blame any one segment is being disingenuous. One only needs to look at the German auto industry, which is even more heavily unionised than Detroit, to show that when you design / build quality and support your product you can grow. Detroit built crap and if they had given their cars away for nothing people still wouldn't want them.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-22 8:13:23 AM
Great video - take that Michael Moore!
What the video does not cover is Detroit's suburbs along its northern perimeter. They're doing well, all things considered. Oh well, nonetheless the point is clear.
Toronto has all those same preconditions - a decaying auto sector, leftist politicians and a dependency on government for everything. Their decline, therefore, is inevitable. That is what will happen in the next few years, and I hope it does. This is why a new regime is needed there, one more representative of the people. A black mayor followed by a 50% of all council members of visible minorities and women will do wonders for the place. Maybe they can prevent Toronto's decline.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-12-22 9:03:22 AM
A black mayor followed by a 50% of all council members of visible minorities and women will do wonders for the place.
Posted by: the black racist Zebulon Punk | 2009-12-22 9:03:22 AM
Like it did in Detroit, Oakland, DC etc. Bwahahahahahaha
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-22 9:13:35 AM
Socialism destroys. Everywhere entiltement hits, it destroys. I currently have, and have had Euro cars in the past. Overpriced crap. They still breakdown, but you just can't afford to repair them. In Europe they don't have much choice. Also, many of the most successful Euro cars are by USA owned car companies.
The norther parts of Detroit that are doing well are most likely where the Union bosses and Teachers live.
That part is the same whereever you go.
Posted by: Vince | 2009-12-22 9:56:37 AM
Detroit's decline started under white liberal mayors. Coleman Young and the other African American successors tried to arrest it but came up short. Toronto needs new blood at the top to prevent the same. Of course they won't because white Toronto prefers to conceal problems rather than deal with them. So, it's inevitable that Toronto is heading for a dark ages entirely of its own design. And it's all because of lazy, rich white people.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-12-22 10:17:07 AM
Brilliant work!
Posted by: Matthew Johnston | 2009-12-22 11:35:43 AM
Unions in Germany don't function the same way as in North America. They are much less confrontational. A whole host of things destroyed GM. Laws that give unions too much power is certainly one of them. Bad management is another. Regulations is still another.
What this does not have anything do with is race.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-22 11:45:27 AM
Unions in Germany don't function the same way as in North America.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-22 11:45:27 AM
Gee, you mean they don't go on strike, ask for higher wages or better benefits? IG Metall is just as bad as the UAW.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-22 12:50:20 PM
Stig,
Nice selective quoting. Unions in Europe are much less confrontational than in N.A. They are less prone to work rules which reduce efficiency. But hey, keep on blaming black people for what happened in Detroit.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-22 1:23:08 PM
Nice selective quoting. Unions in Europe are much less confrontational than in N.A.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-22 1:23:08 PM
From 1996- 2006 the number of days per 1000 workers lost to strikes was:
UK - 25
USA - 40
Germany - 78
Italy - 100
Denmark - 172
Spain - 200
Yup, sure looks like Europeans are much less confrontational.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-22 1:46:11 PM
"From 1996- 2006 the number of days per 1000 workers lost to strikes was:"
So is unionism higher or lower in Europe? Of course there are more strikes in Europe, it's more unionized. Since we are not talking about countries as a whole but particular unions, your stats are not relevant. Furthermore, I was not talking about strikes but work rules. North American unions are much more prone to work against management when operating the company.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-22 2:26:01 PM
Race and unionization went hand in hand in the downfall of Detroit. Most auto workers were white, and so were memberships in unions. In fact, the AFL-CIO opposed the Civil Right Act of 1964. The UAW was slow to implement it. Regardless, as white workers rose in wealth, they left the city for the suburbs, leaving Detroit to the low-income, little-education black population. That is why the suburbs of Detroit are so prosperous - not just race but money. It's why they voted for George Wallace in 1968 too.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-12-22 3:43:48 PM
"From 1996- 2006 the number of days per 1000 workers lost to strikes was:
UK - 25
USA - 40
Germany - 78
Italy - 100
Denmark - 172
Spain - 200"
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-22 1:46:11 PM
http://www.fedee.com/strikes.html
Stigs stats are incorrect, and are a compilation regarding strikes of all types in the EU.
Did stig not compare apples to oranges when he said charles was selectively quoting?
Charles was reffering to the auto industry unions in Germany being less confrontational and stig lumped every industry together and presented a fallacy argument. Nice dishonest tactic.
Posted by: Benny Benassi | 2009-12-22 4:55:14 PM
00:20 Mosque,
Now you see the inheritors of our civilization.
Wasting no time.
Posted by: Cid the Cidious | 2009-12-22 5:08:44 PM
Did stig not compare apples to oranges when he said charles was selectively quoting?
Posted by: Benny Benassi | 2009-12-22 4:55:14 PM
Nice selective quoting.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-22 1:23:08 PM
Benny, you obviously have a problem remembering / comprehending who said what.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-22 8:33:59 PM
wow what a brilliant video indeed. Shows what Soviet style unionism does to a society. The hand outs and entitlements is what destroyed that great city.
It will most likely happen sooner or later to Toronto too.
I met a girl visiting Calgary here at the local karaoke bar and she is from Toronto and guess what her profession is? Criminal defence attorney. I could not stop laughing my ass off. I bet she has lots of work in ghetto Jane and Finch area.
Posted by: Merle Terlesky | 2009-12-22 11:52:20 PM
Oh yeah as if anyone living in that area can afford a lawyer! The White Man keeps the non-whites down and out in order to stay rich. Time for that to change by any means necessary. We shall overcome!
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-12-23 5:15:30 AM
I met a girl visiting Calgary here at the local karaoke bar and she is from Toronto and guess what her profession is? Criminal defence attorney. I could not stop laughing my ass off. I bet she has lots of work in ghetto Jane and Finch area.
Posted by: Merle Terlesky | 2009-12-22 11:52:20 PM
Are you sure she wasn't opening up an office in Brooks Alberta?
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-23 6:58:59 AM
Stig,
Your stats are not relevant. For example, it's probably safe to assume that Germany's unionization rates are double those of the U.S. So it would be normal to have double the amount of strike days in Germany. You're going to have to learn how to interpret data.
But the point is that I specifically mentioned work rules. That means that the days workers are actually working, they are much more prone to work with management and not against them. This means they are more productive. You then respond by giving me stats about strike days that don't mean anything.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-12-23 7:03:07 AM
Oh, Charles. You with your facts and logic. You know how that annoys certain people.
Posted by: Publius | 2009-12-23 7:16:05 AM
The idea that German, or Japanese cars are of higher quality is a total fallacy. It's a throwback to the 70's. People have been manipulated by advertising, and the 'auto journalists', since Jap brands started throwing buckets of cash at them.
I looked at some BMWs last week, and decided only a masochist could really enjoy one. My girlfriend's son has an Acura, and no sooner did he get a new transmission installed, but the ball joint came apart. My friend owns a body shop, and does write off repairs, as a sideline. He won't touch Jap cars, because they aren't sturdy enough to try and repair.
I test drove every truck available, before buying my latest F150. I couldn't find fault with any of them, but was scared away from the Jap trucks by reports of terrible gas mileage, and service problems.
The auto industry has the same problem as the garment industry, the appliance industry, and the electronics industry. Products are dumped on us, by foreign companies, at artificially low prices, because of slave labour manufacturing. The Japs are about to have the same problem. As soon as their workers started earning a fair wage, and living a better standard of life, they became vulnerable. The root cause is globalization.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 10:10:18 AM
"The idea that German, or Japanese cars are of higher quality is a total fallacy. It's a throwback to the 70's. People have been manipulated by advertising, and the 'auto journalists', since Jap brands started throwing buckets of cash at them."
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 10:10:18 AM
Now there is delusion on the grandest of scales.
Japanese and German cars get better fuel milage with the aspirated engines of the same concept,does this not in some way make them better than a North America made vehicle which costs more to drive when considering fuel?
The japanese and germans are leaders in Robotic technology, which trickles down into numeric machinery ie CNC machinery and welding robots. These two countries are vastly more educated per capita, and this reflects in what they manufacture across the board.
One only has to compare a 10 year old German or Japanese vehicle against a domestic one to understand what DP seems not to be able to understand.
DP will scapegoat everything and never realize it is him who needs a better work ethic.
Posted by: From a life time Ford Truck Man | 2009-12-23 11:25:02 AM
Better work ethic? You couldn't keep up with me, in your wildest dreams.
American factories pioneered robotics. GM trucks have been built with robots since the 80s.
Every GM vehicle gets better fuel economy than it's counterpart at Toyota. Go ahead, check the EPA ratings. My F150 gets 22 MPG on the highway, while the Tundra can't get close to 20 MPG. In fact, three people that I work with report Tundras getting around 14 MPG under ideal conditions.
My son drives an 18 year old Mercury Grand Marquis. That thing is bullet proof. I drive a 25 year old Mustang, with a turbocharged 4 cylinder. I also drive a 41 year old Chevelle, and a 43 year old Cutlass. Seen any 40 year old Jap or Kraut cars lately? I didn't think so.
My favourite car is my 2003 Ford Taurus. Not a single problem, in 7 years of driving. I plan to give it to one of my sons, who'll probably get another 5 years out of it. The re-sale value is absolutely non-existant, but who cares? The service, and parts availability make this a very cheap car to maintain.
Why don't you stick to the Emery threads? Your disorganized thoughts can slip by, undetected.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 11:46:33 AM
Holy crap. I just realized, I have too many cars.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 11:52:19 AM
Every GM vehicle gets better fuel economy than it's counterpart at Toyota.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 11:46:33 AM
So Howie Long tells us. And having met him a couple of times I'm not going to argue with him.
Seen any 40 year old Jap or Kraut cars lately? I didn't think so.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 11:46:33 AM
Come on. In this country any 40 year old car is either sitting in a museum or has been restored. Though I do know a lot of people with 25 - 30 year old Volvo's that have only done regular maintenance to them and they are daily drivers. I in fact own a 1991 Volvo 744T (amongst other cars) that I bought brand new in Virginia which has no rust and has had nothing more than routine maintenance done to it and now has over 350K miles on it.
How long do you think your new F150 would last driving at 90+ mph on the Autobahn in Germany? I'll bet my Cayman is still around after the F150 is in the boneyard.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-23 12:08:16 PM
"Seen any 40 year old Jap or Kraut cars lately? I didn't think so. "
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-23 11:46:33 AM
The Japanese only started an auto industry roughly 40 years ago, so not really possible to compare.
As far as 40 year old euro cars, not many in comparison to the numbers that were domestically produced were imported, so again not a very fair comparison when you consider reality. The vehicles that do remain, Isetta's, old Mercedes,and a ton of others still remain as intact as any North American vehicle ever made, so maybe you should rethink your position because you stated " I didn't think so" like you actually knew something that the rest of us didn't.
Posted by: Frederica Bimmel | 2009-12-23 3:16:45 PM
OK America, we'll match Detroit with 500 Indian Reserves and raise you with one Maritime Province.
Good luck getting that video on the CBC.
Posted by: John Chittick | 2009-12-23 3:52:10 PM
"Seen any 40 year old Jap or Kraut cars lately? I didn't think so."
I drive a 1969 Mercedes 220 (that would be an E-Class today), mixed fuel consumption is ~13l/100km the car is 41 years old. Drives well, keeps up with pretty much any "modern" car and still has real bumpers and actually looks good, compared to the modern "streamlined" ones.
Runs fast too, took it up to 130 on #1 before I decided I didn't want to risk a ticket, but it still wanted to go, I am guessing it'll top out somewhere ~180, after 40 years, that's not too bad. No rust either. Go figure.
Oh, and best of all: No computers, if something breaks you can fix it easily.
BTW, the reason for coming here wasn't that though, i am just curious that nobody here seems to have felt the need to tell all of you that the reason why there is no Copenhagen accord is due to the Chinese... Yeah, looks like the Chinese think like you, who's the communist now, eh?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-change-mark-lynas
Posted by: Snowrunner | 2009-12-23 10:33:27 PM
I have to laugh at people above avoiding talking about 40 year old Japanese cars ..... I used to spend a lot of time in a 69 Toyota: hey that would be how many years ago?? It was a piece of junk, even as a sudent my friend had to take it off the road from rust in 1974 and prior to that we did 2 value jobs on a low milage car and spent a couple of nights fixing is on the ditch at the side of the road.
People who think the Japanese got where they got by attacking with quality should look at the history, the quality came later and now they are big they are stuggling with quality too. Same for European cars.... I'm not defending the crap that was sold by the big 4 either, but then I managed to get in excess of 800,000 kilometers on an 82 Pontiac, so they cannot be all that bad. Never once had to fix it at the side of the road either.
Posted by: VMS | 2009-12-24 8:13:18 AM
I see both sides of the story, but German's are good at building mechanical items.
Go to any middle east country and the taxi's are Mercedes. Lots of KM's on it and horrible roads. All the pickups are Toyota's. The big trucks are MAN (German).
CTrains in Calgary are German, btw.
Flyer buses are Canadian and constantly broke down and arrived brand new with parts missing.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2009-12-24 11:38:03 AM
I've decided to give up on supporting the Canadian auto industry. Every time I say something positive about American made products, I get shot down by the very people who have the most to lose by their demise. Ontario is about to lose half its manufacturing base, yet Ontario residents are the first, and the loudest critics of Ontario made products. I'll never understand it, so I'm going to drop it.
I got so disgusted with this, that I decided to check out a Volkswagen, yesterday. I may trade my GM SUV for better fuel economy. In Alberta, it doesn't really matter what I buy, does it? All I'm really supporting is local dealers, and Volkswagen sales men have bills to pay, just like Ford salesmen. The cars land in Halifax, from Germany, then onto trains. About all Ontario gets out of it is some diesel smoke from the locomotive.
VMS- I remember when Canada sold its only aircraft carrier to Japan. They melted it down, and built toyotas. Those early Jap cars rusted out in less than 5 years. I always wanted a 72 240Z, but there are only a handful left. At the time, a lot of domestic vehicles had rust problems, too. Remember "on a clear night, you can hear the fords rust"?
I sat at an intersection in my town, yesterday, and took notice of brand names. It's pretty diverse here. Probably more domestics than the big city, but a fair share of imports. I really think the ratio is determined by the ratio of immigrants in the area. Asians buy Jap cars at about 99%. South Asians seem to really like Nissans. I think it has something to do with the way they lay down a shrapnel field. I've heard that Mercedes make the worst car bombs, and I heard it from a South Asian, so it must be true.
I find it ironic that the number one brand, in China, is Buick. Maybe they just love Tiger Woods.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-24 11:59:10 AM
As the commercial says, over 80% of 20 year old Toyota's are still on the road. Yes back in the 70's and 80's they were crap indeed. But somewhere they turned a corner whereas the Big 3 are stuck back atthe corner.
DP, here's my car history:
First car 1975 Ford Gran Torino 351 Windsor, pig.
'74 Corolla, dual carb, what a piece of crap and truly a ricer tin can.
1976 Buick Lesabre, starter problems, gas gussler 455, kept loosing the muffler.
1977 Pontiac Gran Prix. 400cu with mag wheels. Nice black sports car, chick magnet, albeit I looked like a narc in it with my 80's mustache.
1986 Ford, X-RCMP Crown Vic, lived up to its name, fix or repair daily.
1991 Chevette. Good little car, tin box but cold.
1991 Chev Sprint. Best car I had till then. 3 cylinder standard. Put racing V plugs and Duralube in it and that thing would lay rubber up to 2nd gear and chirp to the third.
1994 Bonnyville SE. 3.8L 1st gen non-turbo, not SSE. Good family sedan, 4 door. 230,000 KM's and only problem was the alternator. Would race BMW's on Highway 22
1991 Jeep Cherokee. Bought this a temp car to go to BC while teaching there. 360,000KM's. Solid, but got about 18MPG. Donated it to Youth for Christ when I got back.
2004 F150 5.4Trintron. Can do the Autobann speeds but started developing engine (cam) knock at 220,000KM so a bit mixed on this one. Still going although now for a year since it developed the knock.
2002 GMC Envoy SLE. 4.2 inline. Smooth riding truck as good as the Bonnyville. Lots of power. GM had to tune down the engine as it was more powerful than the V8 version. 75,000KM's.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2009-12-24 12:05:32 PM
dp, I just came from visiting my Mom in Vancouver.
Not a North American car to be found. Was wild.
Made me feel like when I was in Romania back in the 80's where everyone drives a Tribant, Dacia, or Lada. One day time and saw a Ford Country Station Wagon someone was driving on tour.
Stuck out like a sour thumb, but man I was glad to see it.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2009-12-24 12:10:34 PM
No need to travel so far Tomax. Just go to the new Chinese market, in Harvest Hills. I counted 3 American vehicles, out of hundreds. Resistance is futile.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-25 4:22:53 PM
2004 F150 5.4Trintron. Can do the Autobann speeds
Posted by: tomax7 | 2009-12-24 12:05:32 PM
It's electronically speed regulated to 95 mph and the only way you would get anywhere near 95 mph would be in a straight line. So you couldn't really call it a high speed Autobahn cruiser. It has the same top speed as a Smart Car.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-25 8:25:06 PM
I've decided to give up on supporting the Canadian auto industry.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-24 11:59:10 AM
Going by the list of cars you say you have none of them were built in Canada. So what support did you give the Canadian car industry?
While I have had a lot of European cars, Volvo's, Saabs, M-B's, Jags and one Porsche, I've never owned a Jap or Korean one. My current daily diver is a Ford Flex built in Oakville. Drives like a Range Rover at half the price, and absolutely no problems with it.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-25 8:34:08 PM
I tend to think North American, but I suppose that went out with the auto pact.
Stig- I really don't believe anything you write. Sorry.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-25 9:42:44 PM
Stig- I really don't believe anything you write. Sorry.
Posted by: dp | 2009-12-25 9:42:44 PM
Honestly I couldn't care less what you believe or don't believe.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-12-26 6:55:07 AM
The event that sticks out in my mind when considering the downfall of American auto producers has everything to do with big government; more specifically, their interference. Hoping to avoid a backlash in trade agreements with Japan, the US decided (incorrectly) that it's best move was to limit the number of japanese cars that could be imported in order to minimize the effects of a growing demand for foreign cars. The import quota simply made the cars more scarce and provided an opportunity for the Japanese to raise their prices and increase their revenues without harming the demand for their vehicles. This move reduced the ability of domestic companies to compete. Government intervention is not the answer to everything.
Posted by: EndtheFed | 2009-12-26 10:53:26 AM
The UAW is responsible for detroits problems. Think about it. Janitors getting paid 60k+ per year. Hiring a moron to do a monkeys job and paying him $25 per hour plus the best benifits in america.
In fact what ended up happening is the auto companys had to move to mexico to stay afloat.
Toyota BMW Nissan Honda and many other foreign auto companys come to the USA and setup shop and they profit.
Why? Because they start people off at a reasonable rate of pay i.e. 14.xx per hour. The big three had to move to mexico just to support all the costs the UAW added to thier operations cost.
The blood sucking UAW is responsible for the most part.
Unions have thier place, and this UAW's place is in the grave.
My Nissan Xterra is made in louisiana and my buddys ford focus is made in mexico.
Posted by: jay | 2010-01-19 11:29:40 AM
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