The Shotgun Blog
« Premier Stelmach promises to return Alberta to surpluses in three years | Main | SMU Professor calls to repeal section 13 »
Thursday, October 15, 2009
Illegal Photo Radar AGAIN
Who are these knucklehead bureaucrats that run the Winnipeg City Police?
Earlier this year there was a huge blow up in Manitoba about construction zone photo radar tickets being issued when no workers were actually present in the construction zone. Manitoba Provicinal Court judge Norm Sundstrom ruled that:
Although the drivers had exceeded the 60 km/h limit, they were not going faster than the regular 80 km/h speed limit for that particular roadway. With no workers present, the regular speed limit should apply
This court ruling has not been challenged or over turned, and the crown chose not to appeal the decision. The government also decided that they would not refund anyone who paid the illegally issues tickets.
Yet last weekend, Larry Stefaniuk of Wise Up Winnipeg.com and Traffic Ticket Guru.com caught the Winnipeg Police Service breaking the law by using photo enforcement in a construction zone when there were no workers present!
More evidence that not only does the government not follow their own rules, and are looking for cash grabs, but that they can break the law and nothing at all will happen to them.
Here's an idea. How about the Winnipeg police Service spend their time dealing with the gangs and violent activity in Winnipeg where there are real victims, and leave peaceful people alone.
-----------
I welcome feedback and I ask for civility in the exchange of comments. Vulgarity is discouraged. Please express yourself creatively with other language. We discuss ideas here, attacks on a person are discouraged.
Posted by Freedom Manitoba on October 15, 2009 in Canadian Provincial Politics, Crime | Permalink
Comments
The photo-radar was parked near the end of the construction zone, but what part of the zone was the radar focused on? Also, the police do not decide when workers get to be away; the time was around 3:30 PM, a working time, unless it was a day off. So, the police photo-radar may have been parked in the proper place at a reasonably proper time. I don't like photo-radar but I think you are being picayune.
Posted by: Agha Ali Arkahn | 2009-10-15 12:17:09 PM
"Here's an idea. How about the Winnipeg police Service spend their time dealing with the gangs and violent activity in Winnipeg where there are real victims, and leave peaceful people alone."
Define "gang".
Deal with them, how?
Do you refer to their activities in the drug and or sex trade?
Or do you believe that government police departments are capable of providing security and protection in those instances where illegal associations act in concert to threaten lives, or violate property?
How about calling for the end to the universally destructive War on Drugs?
You can not make the case for liberty, or for an end to oppression in one case, by calling for police intervention and tyranny on another front. That is not an argument.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-15 6:28:57 PM
I'm with Agha on this one. As long as they're not actually giving out tickets for breaking the construction speed limit when the workers are clearly off duty, then I don't see the problem. Especially since they can still legally give out tickets if the drivers break the higher, off-duty speed limit.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-15 6:36:44 PM
"As long as they're not actually giving out tickets for breaking the construction speed limit when the workers are clearly off duty, then I don't see the problem."
Well the issue here in Winnipeg is that they generally do just that. The city began a series of construction projects on this street as well as a few others 2 years ago and ran out of funding. So many of these are now entirely idle and in some cases they are enforcing construction speed limits in areas that haven't had workers for months.
This, however, is not one of those zones. In fact, at about 1:30 of the video a construction vehicle with flashing lights can clearly be seen working so they are not breaking the rules at all.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-15 8:40:35 PM
That should have been 1:50 of the video.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-15 9:25:46 PM
DrLiberty, I didn't see any construction vehicles in that video at 1:50. There is a truck with it's turning signal on that is turning left at the point. It's being reported that there hasn't been ANY construction crews at this spot for several months.
The photo radar in this instance was set up near the end of the 60 zone, pointing to the spot where people would begin speeding up to the 80 limit. The photo radar wasn't being used in the rest of the actual construction zone.
The main point being that the courts said that this practice was illegal, yet they do it anyways, to no consequence.
I just love government.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 12:49:25 AM
John, there is a gang problem in Winnipeg that has been increasing in violence over the last year. There has been call for more resources, and the Winnipeg Police Service has said that they need more officers, yet they send out their current officers to do things like this.
"You can not make the case for liberty, or for an end to oppression in one case, by calling for police intervention and tyranny on another front."
I think that catching actual violent criminals is a proper use of a police force. Stopping and catching violent criminals is not tyranny.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 12:52:42 AM
Freedom, look closer. The vehicle is clearly a construction vehicle. It comes into view at 1:50 in the left turn lane. It even had its flashers on and the orange and black tape is very visible.
"The main point being that the courts said that this practice was illegal, yet they do it anyways, to no consequence."
Agreed. Just not in this case. There was a construction vehicle in this zone, and in fact it was right near the end about where the photo radar was pointed.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-16 1:14:05 AM
Dr. Liberty, I don't see how you are getting that. All I see is a truck of some sort making a left turn. Perhaps it is a construction vehcile, perhaps it is on it's way to a job somewhere, there are still no workers in that area and haven't been for several weeks.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 5:34:41 AM
That's a construction truck. Specifically, a construction flatbed. Its flashers were on, making it highly unlikely it was just passing through. Really, Freedom, you should examine your evidence more carefully before you try to build a case.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-16 6:44:31 AM
Look at the video, it is very clear, that truck is turning left (1:58-2:02), it was waiting for the car in the opposing lane to pass before it made it's turn. There are no workers in the area. I don't know why you insist on inventing facts.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 8:19:51 AM
If pressed, they'll claim the photo radar proceeds are funding the resources needed to fight gang violence. You'll never win the argument against photo radar. It's just too profitable.
My city of 50 thousand has two photo radar vans. The locals rarely break speed limits, during certain hours, in certain areas. They were, originally, supposed to patrol school zones, but have been making more money on the highway. To make matters worse, all school zones in town are also playgroung zones. That means they're 30 km/hr, every day, from morning til after sundown. That one really fools a lot of out-of-towners.
My son was driving with his uncle, from Regina, and warned him about the situation. His reply was, "what are they going to do, mail me the ticket?" Doh!
Posted by: dp | 2009-10-16 8:30:47 AM
John,
Gangs don't only sell drugs. They murder people for no reason, sell stolen merchandise, rob banks, break into people's homes, etc. We need police to protect our rights.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-10-16 8:31:52 AM
"were, originally, supposed to patrol school zones"
Same in Winnipeg, but like most govenrment programs they expand it into other areas.
Charles, while gangs are invovled in a lot of different criminal activities, I often hear the politicians and police talk about how they are funded by the drug trade. Repealing prohibition would go a long way to stopping gang violence.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 9:37:57 AM
Hello all! First of all, it was a Saturday, not a work day, that's not a construction vehicle it's a sanding truck that's turning around to go do the opposite approach to the intersection as there was some wet snow on the ground. The Gov. changed the law after the police were caught the first time. If there's no workers present there has to be a reasonable hazard to warrant them there. Where's the hazard and why are the set up 20 yards from the end of the set up? When you are using a speed threshold of 12 kph over you are taking advantage of people just starting to accelerate into the 80 another 75 yards away. Wake up folks photo enforcement does nothing to improve safety. Please anyone explain how it does!
Posted by: Larry Stefanuik | 2009-10-16 10:10:56 AM
Repealing prohibition would go a long way to stopping gang violence.
At the cost of more stoned teenagers. Sorry, not acceptable. They should just start hanging gangsters.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-16 10:27:26 AM
"Hello all! First of all, it was a Saturday, not a work day"
I already knew it was a Saturday, you mentioned the date in the video. That does not mean however that it isn't a work day. As you very well know these are all contracted out and private construction companies do typically work on Saturday. In fact on route 90 at McGilvary I have only ever seen them working on Saturday's
"that's not a construction vehicle it's a sanding truck that's turning around to go do the opposite approach to the intersection as there was some wet snow on the ground"
No it wasn't. It was clearly a flatbed.
"Wake up folks photo enforcement does nothing to improve safety. Please anyone explain how it does! "
Agreed. But there is real evidence to support this claim you don’t have to just make shit up.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-16 10:30:16 AM
Larry, sanding vehicles are modified dump trucks. That's a flatbed. And what's more, the road is completely bare in this picture.
Also, for this video to constitute any kind of proof, it would need to show a) someone getting ticketed (difficult considering it's photo radar and they mail you the ticket); and b) the speed of the person being ticketed, since they still have every right to ticket if the driver is doing more then 80, the regular limit. But it doesn't show either of these things. All we get to see, when we're not looking at your talking head for fully half the video, is two cars stopped in the unfinished part of the road with a guy in a red vest standing next to one of them. With the window rolled up.
By the way, photo radar does reduce travel speeds, which is the point, and therefore safety. Speed may not contribute to every accident, but it makes every accident worse, as surely as not wearing your seat belt would. It reduces both the number of accidents and the severity of those accidents which do occur. In fact, the biggest obstacle to doing the legal limit that I've found is that others behind you would rather take crazy chances to get around you than follow suit.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-16 10:42:00 AM
Larry is the former police officer who appears in this video.
"The Gov. changed the law after the police were caught the first time."
I wasn't aware of that. Was it a change to the Highway Traffic Act?
"No it wasn't. It was clearly a flatbed."
Larry was there and had a better view of it than us. Regardless, it wasn't part of any construction going on in that area. There was no reason for this speed trap/money grab to be present.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 10:44:29 AM
"Larry was there and had a better view of it than us."
So I trust Larry not my lying eyes? Flatbeds are not used to spread sand and that was clearly a flatbed.
"Regardless, it wasn't part of any construction going on in that area. There was no reason for this speed trap/money grab to be present."
Yes it clearly was. Watch the video if you plan to comment on it. The lights on the truck are flashing meaning it is doing road work of some kind and it is not a sanding truck.
"Larry is the former police officer who appears in this video."
Sorry appeals to authority don't stand up unless one does not have the knowledge to judge something for themselves.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-16 11:00:00 AM
"The lights on the truck are flashing meaning it is doing road work of some kind and it is not a sanding truck."
You are making assumptions.
"Sorry appeals to authority don't stand up"
I wasn't appealing to authority, I was pointing out that the person posting was the person in the video, information.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 11:08:02 AM
Yes most of us actually looked at the video so we knew that Larry was the one in it.
"You are making assumptions."
No, I am not. I am telling you what I saw. There is no assumption necessary because all of the relevant information is on the video. There are plenty of places in this city where police are in fact doing what you merely claim them to be doing here. Maybe get footage of it and post that.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-16 11:18:22 AM
"all of the relevant information is on the video."
You are making the assumption that this truck was working in this area. That is not evidenced by what is in the video. Ther person who shot the video that was there and had a better view than we have, has said so.
"Maybe get footage of it and post that."
That is likely to come.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 11:21:48 AM
Feedom, when all evidence is right in front of one's eyes no assumptions are necessary. You clearly don't get that point so I will just leave it at that and hope that others do.
Posted by: DrLiberty | 2009-10-16 11:31:54 AM
Can we all at least agree that the video does not make a good case for the subject behaviour?
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-16 11:35:47 AM
"Can we all at least agree that the video does not make a good case for the subject behaviour?"
No.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 12:20:31 PM
The video shows a construction zone speed limit being enforced with photo radar when there are no construction workers present, and that is an illegal action.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-16 12:21:43 PM
"Here's an idea. How about the Winnipeg police Service spend their time dealing with the gangs and violent activity in Winnipeg where there are real victims, and leave peaceful people alone."
We all seem to be missing the main point. To deal with crime costs money.
To issue tickets makes money. Easy money.
Posted by: peterj | 2009-10-16 11:52:50 PM
@Freedom Manitoba
"I think that catching actual violent criminals is a proper use of a police force. Stopping and catching violent criminals is not tyranny."
What violence in particular? The violence done between rival drug distributors locked out of any legal recourse for disputes?
Again: government police departments have limited utility at best. They don't prevent or deter crime. They rarely "solve" them.
The real crime afflicting my home town is the Welfare State and War on Drugs. Both realities keep the Winnipeg Police "Service" (sic) in gravy.
You want an end to the violence in the drug trade? Stop talking about, and instead demand, and end to the Drug War and Welfare State. The rise of both correspond perfectly with Winnipeg's delince.
That said: yes, WPS demands for more officers IS a fraud, but as long as non-crimes like the drug trade and speeding are accepted by the general public as "offences", the Winnipeg Police State will only continue to grow and grow. And grow. As it has been doing my entire life.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-17 1:45:22 AM
@Charles:
"Gangs don't only sell drugs. They murder people for no reason, sell stolen merchandise, rob banks, break into people's homes, etc. We need police to protect our rights."
Obviously, Charles, there ARE criminal associations that are based around pure property crimes. But the fact is most B&Es are committed by solo acts.
I would dispute your claim that "gangs" exist for the purpose of killing people "for no reason".
The "gang" problem in Winnipeg is composed almost exclusively of the denizens of that city's Welfare State and the violence and other collateral damage is approximately 80% as a result of the War on Drugs.
Finally, police do not "protect our rights". They protect very litte, in fact. The greater likelihood for the average citizen is to have their rights VIOLATED by police than the opposite.
City police are simply another unionized, socialized, bureaucratized government monopoly. Not only has "service" declined and costs soared, but the WPS, like most other big city police agencies, has become a direct threat to civil liberties. They are just another player in the general chaos people attribute to the "gang problem".
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-17 1:52:52 AM
"They don't prevent or deter crime. They rarely "solve" them."
John, I agree with you, and I agree that drug prohibition should be repealed. In the meantime, while we do have these bad laws and law enforcement, I would prefer to see those resources put towards policing problem neighborhood and going after people that do violence, not people driving to the mall.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-17 10:19:39 AM
Seems to me that one of the reasons for the reduced speed limit posted in this area is the fact that there is a merge into one lane (near the Tim Horton site), which represents a hazard at any speed...
Posted by: Enno | 2009-10-17 11:08:02 AM
Freedom, I'm glad you are an authority on construction zones and sign placements.
To me, when a legal highway or street sign says "END" it usually means at that point. So what if the camera van is near the end of the zone. If it was at the beginning your video would say it shouldn't be so close to the beginning then.
I bet you aren't as generous if a bunch of people walking encroached your property line. Meaning you'd go right to the boundary and say "keep off!"
Drive the speed limit through a construction zone and you won't have any problems. Simple really.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2009-10-18 1:43:57 PM
The video shows a construction zone speed limit being enforced with photo radar when there are no construction workers present, and that is an illegal action.
That is your interpretation of the video. Mine differs.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-18 3:07:19 PM
What violence in particular? The violence done between rival drug distributors locked out of any legal recourse for disputes?
Spare us the waterworks. No one forces them into the black market. Being an outlaw means not being able to trust the law.
Again: government police departments have limited utility at best. They don't prevent or deter crime. They rarely "solve" them.
Major crimes are usually solved. And do you seriously believe there would be no increase in crime if the police closed down?
The real crime afflicting my home town is the Welfare State and War on Drugs. Both realities keep the Winnipeg Police "Service" (sic) in gravy.
Can you prove this, or is this just an idea you have?
You want an end to the violence in the drug trade? Stop talking about, and instead demand, and end to the Drug War and Welfare State. The rise of both correspond perfectly with Winnipeg's delince.
The rise of aboriginal populations also corresponds nicely with Winnipeg’s decline, as they commit far more crimes per capita than other races. In fact, statistics show that the provinces with the highest aboriginal populations have the highest violent crime rates, even though those provinces are among the least populous overall.
That said: yes, WPS demands for more officers IS a fraud, but as long as non-crimes like the drug trade and speeding are accepted by the general public as "offences", the Winnipeg Police State will only continue to grow and grow. And grow. As it has been doing my entire life.
Ah, yes, libertarian “natural law.” And libertarians say Christians are gullible.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-10-18 3:13:25 PM
"Drive the speed limit through a construction zone and you won't have any problems. Simple really."
Yep, obey our arbitrary dictates and there won't be any problems citizens!
"That is your interpretation of the video. Mine differs."
Do you see any construction workers doing work in that area?
" And libertarians say Christians are gullible."
Don't generalize us Shane as all having one voice.
Posted by: Freedom Manitoba | 2009-10-18 5:06:42 PM
The comments to this entry are closed.