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Saturday, October 24, 2009
Free speech takes a hit in B.C.
Recently I was browsing through the Halifax Metro newspaper, and was disappointed to read this short little article:
What's beyond belief is that this is a news story to begin with. For one, it's sad that a B.C. chief is picking on a blogger. What's more sad is that his words are considered "inflammatory and discriminatory" to aboriginal people.
Apparently it's a "slap in the face of First Nations people" to list off some of the many things the Europeans brought to Canada. Let me be the first to support Rachel Marsden - for free speech, and for being right.
[Cross-posted at The Right Coast]
Posted by Dane Richard on October 24, 2009 in Canadian Politics | Permalink
Comments
Dane,
One of the things we Europeans brought was written language. Unfortunately, it's a skill that even some Europeans, such as yourself, have yet to master. As anyone who can read will see, the "mystery blogger" is Rachel Marsden, convicted stalker and long-time Ann Coulter wannabe. And while I haven't read this particular article, based on past performance, the odds are that Judith Sayer is bang-on when she describes Marsden's work as "ignorant".
Posted by: truewest | 2009-10-24 2:25:23 PM
Sigh.
Why doesn't it surprise me that you would misundertand the concept of "free speech"?
Rachel Marsden -- mystery blogger??? -- is a moron, and was called out as such. Where was her right to free speech, and her right to be the idiot she is, threatened?
According to Marsden, the BC natives were fuct until the British Emprire brought them....government.
The fascist Marsden, and her new BBF, Keynesian Dane, likely also lament that these "Third Worldish" people did not also have a Central Bank until the gentle souls from the British Empire showed up.
The moron Marsden also says in the piece Ol' Kane has jumped to her defense over, that the British Empire brought the natives "discipline and order".
And far from "teaching the natives capitalism", they in fact did quite the opposite -- keeping them largely OUT of the mainstream economy.
While you're at it Kane, why not tell us all the variety of capitalism the British Empire was practising and TEACHING in BC?
I'm worried about you, Dane. First you come out with a brainless defense of Harpo -- now you've moved on to Marsden.
When it came to shilling for Harpo, I wondered what was in it for you... with Marsden, I am afraid to ask.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 2:28:20 PM
Well for one the article never gave a name so I didn't know who it was at the time. Secondly, to me it really doesn't matter who said it. In fact it doesn't even matter if we agree with her or not.
The point remains, there are no boundaries with free speech.
Posted by: Dane Richard | 2009-10-24 2:35:02 PM
Wait the name is there, my bad.
Posted by: Dane Richard | 2009-10-24 2:36:12 PM
How is free speech impeded when someone exercises it to criticize a blogger?
Posted by: ebt | 2009-10-24 2:42:33 PM
Welcome to the new world, Dane. The moment anyone feels offended or does not like the content of what someone says, it is not acceptable to attempt to ban the individual.
From their comments neither trueleft nor John grasp the concept of free speech. No one is obligated to listen to nor read the comments by this person, but she is, or should be, free to express her opinion. Oh I know the end thing now with the progressives is to claim that Europeans brought nothing of good and that the Natives all lived in harmony in Eden. The fact is that there was both good and bad in both, with neither one being prefect.
Posted by: Alain | 2009-10-24 2:49:46 PM
Alain AND Dane:
WHERE in the article does it say moron fascist Marsden's right to free speech is threatened?
Has the chief or band called for her to be fired, fined, jailed? Has she been asked to apologize or retract -- or been forced to do anything at all?
She HAS exercised her right to free speech, and the people she in her infinite stupidity were insulting, exercised THEIR free speech. Please tell me, Alain, how it is I do not understand free speech.
All is as it should be.
Though how a psychotic, truly unsavoury brownshirt like Marsden winds up in the Telegraph is yet another of life's mysteries.
Equally mysterious is how it is anybody would wish to defend her on this site.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 2:57:47 PM
Racism, no matter how cleverly veiled, nor how Softly Spoken, still Screams Ignorance.
To not challenge this blogger is to not exercise Our rights.
I see Racism in the Blogger's comments, and am exercising my right to point it out. Racism must be challenged, upon sight, everywhere it is found out.
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 3:11:45 PM
The natives of North America were always at war with each other. Most of them at least. Some of the first colonists were lucky to find the more pleasant of the natives in the Northeast coastal present-day US.But once they began competing for land, it started getting tense.
Where life was harsher the natives were at war with each other. There were tribes that fought with the whites against other tribes.
Where do you think the Cavalry picked up their "Indian Scouts"? Rival tribes.
Posted by: Floyd Looney | 2009-10-24 3:16:50 PM
@Kim Leaman:
I don't discount the possibility Marsden is racist.
But I believe she is only just using racist, or cultural supremacist language to draw attention to herself. Her main objective in life is to make fascism officially fashionable again.
Her main handicap is that she is so magnificently stupid.
She does hwvr have her followers: check out the comments section on the Telegraph blog she scrawls on...full of admirers who consider her a "breath of fresh air".
Apparently Keynesian Dane is among them.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 3:24:16 PM
@Floyd Looney:
Indians competed and sometimes fought each other. Your point?
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 3:28:50 PM
Well if the Hudson Bay Company done those copied designed of the Cowichian people they should have brought their Hudson Bay Blankets instead that was infested with smallpoxes.
That's how smallpox's reached the reserves during a pot-latches.That's what I heard from a history teacher.
We all 1st Nations should be credited for being here still struggling all these years trying accomplish a future and not one Treaty settlement as yet come to pass.2012 is going to be a New Earth and we will be there to create it.Peace to the world.
Posted by: Cat Thunder | 2009-10-24 4:01:07 PM
Mr. Collison, you may be right in that Dane does seem at least Apparently Keynesian.
The most interesting part is that it appears he forgot to read the Newspaper Clipping in Question here. It might be more reasonable to bypass his input and deal only with the 'bit of paper' that clearly shows someone Quite Rightly and politely playing the Race card.
It's the Race Card Baby, Deal with it.
Apparently Keynesian? Apparently so!
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 4:01:17 PM
@ Kim Leaman
a race card in service of fascism.
but marsden prefers to be styled "conservative"
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 4:13:05 PM
@John Collison You wrote:
"@ Kim Leaman
a race card in service of fascism.
but marsden prefers to be styled "conservative" "
___________________________________
You've lost me.
The Race Card is being played by Judith Sayers, in Defense of First Nations Canadians and in my opinion, Rightly so.
How is she (Judith Sayers)in service of Fascism?
Are you now suggesting that silence is an appropriate response to Racism?
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 4:23:58 PM
no I meant
marsden is making racist noises
to promote her fascism
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 4:27:13 PM
marsden is making racist noises
to promote her fascism
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 4:27:13 PM
Reductio ad Hitlerum
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 4:48:18 PM
stig:
I said fascism, not nazism
but alright, I'll play along:
subtract the Holocaust
and then tell me what the difference is
between marsden and nazism
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 4:51:17 PM
Though how a psychotic, truly unsavoury brownshirt like Marsden winds up in the Telegraph is yet another of life's mysteries.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 3:24:16 PM
If you ever bothered to read the Telegraph blog section you'd find that other writer's such as Ed West, Gerald Warner and James Delingpole from time to time write stuff similar to Marsden. The Telegraph values diversity of opinion something you obviously don't. And Marsden doesn't write for the Telegraph newspaper her comments occasionally appear as a guest writer on the online blog section only.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 5:00:36 PM
I don't value her opinion
I think she is a truly damged person
she should be nowhere near the public square
my use for the telegraph has dropped precipitously
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:03:47 PM
I said fascism, not nazism
Though how a psychotic, truly unsavoury brownshirt like Marsden
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 4:51:17 PM
Brownshirt.... argumentum ad Nazium
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 5:04:34 PM
my use for the telegraph has dropped precipitously
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:03:47 PM
The Barclay brothers knees have now started shaking.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 5:13:27 PM
I don't value her opinion
I think she is a truly damged person
she should be nowhere near the public square
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:03:47 PM
I don't value yours. However, I would never suggest you should be silenced as you want Marsden to be.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 5:16:33 PM
Collison, I have never heard of her before so obviously I haven't read her posts, and thus wouldn't know what her stances are (I still don't and don't particularly care).
I am not a Keynesian, so if you would stop being a baby and lighten up on the stupid, God awful "insults", that would be great. Thanks.
By the way, I am a huge fan of Ann Coulter. So far I only own two of her books but I loved both so far. Would I like Marsden? :)
Posted by: Dane Richard | 2009-10-24 5:26:56 PM
Lobo: none of the above.
Posted by: Dane Richard | 2009-10-24 5:50:06 PM
@stig:
Just for kicks, show me where I said she should be "silenced". Otherwise, a period of silence from you would be very much appreciated.
@Dane:
I am not insulting you. Based on everything you have said, you do indeed subscribe to keynesianism. With a side of monetarism.
As you by now no doubt know, Rachel Marsden was named in the piece you reference; nowhere in that article is her right to free speech threatened.
And if you like nut job Ann Coulter, yes, you will like Marsden. Tho Marsden has not yet advocated nuking Mecca, and she is 20 or 30 points shy of Coulter's IQ score.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:53:55 PM
Just for kicks, show me where I said she should be "silenced"
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:53:55 PM
she should be nowhere near the public square
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:03:47 PM
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 6:18:32 PM
@Stig: You equate that with State action censoring her speech?
A little fuzzy on the concept of free speech and censorship, aren't we?
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 6:22:55 PM
Tho Marsden has not yet advocated nuking Mecca,
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-24 5:53:55 PM
Only conservative libertarians like Rich Lowry would do that.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 6:23:40 PM
Dane, Coulter is a Keynesian and I am sure she has no idea what it means either.
You might first consider finding out who Keynesians follow before you deny being one of His (and that is a hint) followers. You follow his followers, that much we have established, and apparently without your even Knowing it.
Ridding the World of the destructive influence of knuckle-dragging Clones like Beck, Coulter, Marsden, and a whole host of others is a useful endeavour that best begins at home.
Try doing some Open minded Research. There is lots of real evidence that those who don't understand the huge differences between tolerance and acceptance, are not Useful in a Small World getting ever smaller.
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 7:09:16 PM
Ridding the World of the destructive influence of knuckle-dragging Clones like Beck, Coulter, Marsden, and a whole host of others is a useful endeavour.........
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 7:09:16 PM
Why don't you put them on trains, send them to a camp and say bye bye?
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 7:22:32 PM
the Stig: I clearly and carefully said 'ridding the world of 'Destructive influence', and you took it out of context and absolutely Destroyed it lol.
I am writing to you, but the message is about you, not at you. I can't change you, just do what I can to limit your destructive influence. I do not care if you get it, or that you are saying it, just know that I care that others do not take Your Message as unassailable.
Sorry to have to use you as an example, but the principle is the same.
I do not care if Marsden spews her drivelous Racist sentiment, I just want the Right to refute it. Get it?
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 7:46:55 PM
John, it does not help when you insist in twisting what others say along with all the hyperbole and insults. I made it very clear that it is a matter of freedom of expression at play. Yet instead of defending her right to express her views, you jump on the fascist wagon seeking to shut her down. Furthermore, you make it more absurd by claiming it is racism. You continue to confirm what I have stated on other posts concerning that those, such as yourself, who self identify as libertarian are only concerned with personal freedom when it pertains to marijuana. That does a big disservice to libertarianism. All this indicates a very closed mind unwilling to consider other views before passing judgement.
Posted by: Alain | 2009-10-24 7:51:03 PM
the Stig: I clearly and carefully said 'ridding the world of 'Destructive influence', and you took it out of context and absolutely Destroyed it lol.
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 7:46:55 PM
The line wasn't actually mine but Bruno's. It did have the desired effect though.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-10-24 8:05:10 PM
Stig?
The line was mine! God, I gotta get Glenn Beck's Evil book so I can argue with you Idiots?
The line was Mine, I said it and you think I attributed it to you? Did I put it in Quotation Marks? No!
I wasn't quoting You.
Idiot! I was Talking to you!
Posted by: Kim Leaman | 2009-10-24 9:00:23 PM
@Alain
I defend to the Death Rachel Marsden's right to free speech, and her right to be stupid and wrong.
I even defend the same for you.
You clearly can not grasp the difference between a private individual objecting strenuously to speech, and calling for the State (the ONLY true censor) to suppress same, or punish the speaker.
Unlike you, I have confronted censorship first hand. I don't need lectures, least of all from you.
Marsden IS a fascist, and very likely tilts toward a racialized if not racist view of the world. I will give you another shot at it: WHERE do I call for her speech to be suppressed by the state?
Neither am I illiberal -- while I prefer NOT to hear Marsden's subliterate shite, I actually value it in as much as I like to know where the fascists are at.
I also like your comments, for similar reasons -- its good to know where the angry right wing social democrats are at.
And why not add this to your homework: define fascist and racist, then come back to class and tell us how Marsden is neither one or both.
Finally: please do work on your reading comprehension.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-25 2:34:15 AM
is it discrimination to state the the natives did not have the wheel or written language. europeans added a great deal to the so called north american culture.
Posted by: old white guy | 2009-10-25 6:59:35 AM
You know you're dealing with someone who knows nothing about politics when you hear this gem:
"I also like your comments, for similar reasons -- its good to know where the angry right wing social democrats are at."
I wonder if you could fit any more contradictions in there. I'll help you out:
"I also like your comments, for similar reasons -- its good to know where the angry right wing pacifist social democrat capitalist communist fascists are at."
That better, Collison?
Posted by: Dane Richard | 2009-10-25 7:38:46 AM
By the way, you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition.
"Finally: please do work on your writing ability."
Posted by: Dane Richard | 2009-10-25 7:41:03 AM
Re John Collison, Kim.
Do either of you two fine folks actually know what Fascist means? or how about racist?
Why is a so-called right-wing person only ever called a fascist or a racist? You do know, don't you, that fascism is entirely a concept of the LEFT. Both those terms are thrown about by people all the time when they really have zero clue as to what they mean. Racist is another one.
Have a really good look at the entire 'race' issue. As only right-wing folks seen to get called fascist; it seems only WHITE people get labeled RACIST. You should have a good long look at the First Nations. If ever there was a group of people who should be called Racist, it's them(I use the term in its correct context, not as a slur). Their entire political, social and economic structure is one of race-based exclusion by, and of, other peoples than themselves. Ever try to get elected as a Band Chief? See any white folks anywhere as chief? Didn't think so. However, what would be yelled from the rooftops if a Native person was 'almost' elected PM of Canada? They can become PM, but Harper or Iggy could not become Band Chief. Now, is that not racist? BTW, no Native person is forced or obligated to live on a reserve. Not one. But if they choose to live there, they are 'entitled' to certain monies. Explain to me how that is not racist? Can a white person live on a reserve? Yes. Does he or she get monies for that? Again, NO. Racist. So both of you, John and Kim, its time you two went back to class and learned a few things. A) Fascist B) Racist. The knife cuts both ways. And truth, is the truth. The message may not be to your liking, vis a vis the article by Marsden, but she speaks truth. When truth becomes 'fascist' or 'racist' then the inmates truly run the asylum. As for free speech, it should go without saying that it IS a fundamental right that precedes not only Canada, but is the foundation of democracy.
Posted by: arctic_front | 2009-10-25 8:42:29 AM
John,
I don't know if Marsden is a racist or a fascist. I think it's more likely she's a narcissist with delusions of grandeur. She first hit the headlines when she accused her swim coach at SFU of sexual harassment, and even thought the claim was eventually dismissed and Marsden discredited, I think she became hooked on the spotlight.
She looked at Coulter -- leggy, blonde controversial -- and saw a future for herself as "hot right-wing babe who'll say anything". The fact that she has seldom lasted long at any one media outlet -- she was shown the door by Sun Media and Fox News -- and yet still found places to bloviate gives lie to the suggestion that the media is dominated by liberals. As does the fact the she still gets hired after being exposed as a liar and pleading guilty to being a stalker.
The happy news is that, like any starlet, she's got a best-before date, which must be approaching fast.
Posted by: truewest | 2009-10-25 9:55:22 AM
Western Standard article on Rachel Marsden two years ago, asking "How does a serial stalker, convict and fraud artist end up Canada's hottest young conservative pundit?"
http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/article.php?id=874
Posted by: The Angel of Mirth | 2009-10-25 11:34:03 AM
@Dane Richard:
Just cuz I think you really are trying, I will be patient with you.
"Right wing" suggests conservatism and authoritarianism, leaning toward totalitarianism.
A social democrat is a statist, collectivist democrat, in both social and economic terms.
A right wing social democrat is not a contradiction as your enterprising mind might conclude.
A right wing social democrat is essentially an economic socialist who also tilts toward traditional values, possibly including social conservatism, as well as authoritarianism.
To simplify things for you -- apparently necessary -- a baby step for you to begin understanding where people are in terms of social, economic and political philosophy, try this: http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html
Stephen Harper is a right wing social democrat: a statist proponent of socialist and keynesian economics, democracy, and who has strong social conservative and authoritarian values.
Sound familiar?
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-25 3:18:37 PM
@ Dane:
Dude you are the LAST person who ought to be critiquing ANYBODY's writing for grammar, syntax or context.
But I am sure Shane Matthews is very proud of his boy.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-25 3:20:49 PM
@hetro
My reading of truewest's comment is that because Marsden relies disproportinately upon a kind of sleazy, tarty sexuality to sell her nutty politics...when she loses the ability to present herself that way, all she has left is crazy -- and her whole act then dries up and blows away.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-25 3:27:17 PM
@ arctic front:
Racist implies a belief IN races, whether cultural or genetic or both. And that one is superior in most or all ways to the others.
Marsden's m.o. fits comfortably into this definition, tho I believe for her it is merely a vehicle for promoting the State and particular social order.
OBVIOUSLY people from all 'races' can be racist.
Your notion that Indians are racist based upon the reserve system is ridiculous: the socialist and apartheid system you refer to was invented and imposed upon Indians by racist WHITE government.
Fascism is rooted in an economic concept where the State controls a cartelized economy with, and for the benefit of the State and its elites. It is also an authoritarian, collectivist, and militarist creed, usually, but not exclusively coupled with socially conservative values or their superficial forms. The fascist State ultimately controls business, media, churches, and seeks to restrict individual and countless other civil and social associations.
Keynesian economics has proven to be fully compatible with fascism.
Most people associate fascism almost exclusively with Nazism and the various S&M inspired costumery of the Nazis and Italian fascists. Which makes it easier for garden variety, text book fascists to deny the accusation by dismissing any comparisons.
Is Canada a fascist state? Not quite, but it increasingly leans very heavily in that direction.
Read the work of the heroic Canadian immigrant and liberal, George Jonas for an understanding of where this country has gone in his lifetime.
Is Stephen Harper a fascist? Not quite. But his economic policies, foreign interventionist policies, and various domestic policies such as on immigration and the War on Drugs, certainly fit the bill.
Anybody remotely familiar with Rachel Marsden's views will easily recognize her as a text book fascist, almost comically so.
Is she racist in the sense that she believes say, that people with white skin are superior to dark skinned people? I don't know. But she certainly appeals to a racialized world view for what I believe to be fascist purposes, i.e., she distorts and glorifies the history of "white society" or culture, as a way to justify or promote current social or foreign policies.
And getting back to the "racist" Natives -- again the whole system was set up by WHITE racists. And yes, there have been white chiefs and a good part of the current Indian reserve elite has European ancestry.
Finally -- I don't know what dog you have in the fight -- but I challenge you to present examples where Rachel Marsden = Truth.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-25 3:55:58 PM
"And getting back to the "racist" Natives -- again the whole system was set up by WHITE racists. And yes, there have been white chiefs and a good part of the current Indian reserve elite has European ancestry."
: John Collison
How dare they!
Posted by: Timothy | 2009-10-25 4:08:04 PM
Well, no matter what the opinion anyone may hold of Rachel Marsden (or anyone like her), her words and thoughts are starting to resonate with more and more people.
These would be the common people of the UK, Canada, the US and Australia, who grew up to see their country changed before their eyes.
For a lot of these common folk, they have lost the country they expected to grow old in.
Posted by: Ed Ellison | 2009-10-25 4:21:22 PM
@ Ed Ellison
Rachel Marsden does not represent pre-Trudeaupian Canada -- she represents a fascist reaction to it.
Tragically her views are glommed on to by people who mourn the loss of small-l liberal Canada, but don't realize it. All they are left with is anger.
Posted by: John Collison | 2009-10-25 4:36:06 PM
@ John Collison "All they are left with is anger."
Irrespective of whether Rachel Marsden has a fascist world-view or not, there are indeed a lot of people angry that their respective countries have changed forever.
The point is that Marsden and other "conservative" commentators have tapped into a vast and growing constituency, which is alarming a lot of people who have become accustomed to the largess of "liberal" goverments.
Posted by: Ed Ellison | 2009-10-25 4:59:57 PM
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