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Thursday, July 23, 2009

Alberta government announces vaccine program despite disputed link to autism

Jenny_mccarthy_at_e3_2006 This fall, the Alberta government will offer a free seasonal influenza vaccine to all Albertans six months and older. Immunization can be obtained through public health clinics and some physician offices and pharmacists beginning in October. 

“This is something Alberta has been working toward for a number of years,” said Ron Liepert, Minister of Alberta Health and Wellness. “It is a valuable investment in strengthening the public health system in Alberta, and is the best way of protecting Albertans from seasonal influenza viruses that we see every year.”

Separate from the seasonal influenza vaccine, the province is also working on its plan to immunize Albertans against the H1N1 influenza virus sometime this fall. Details on that immunization program will be announced when available.

“Immunization continues to be our best defense against influenza,” said Dr. André Corriveau, Alberta’s Chief Medical Officer of Health. “Whether you have underlying medical conditions that put you at higher risk of developing influenza-related complications or may be in contact with someone who does, it is important for all Albertans to get their flu shot to reduce transmission of the virus.”

Additionally, individuals 65 years and over and those who are at high risk because of certain health problems are strongly advised to get the pneumococcal immunization as it may be beneficial in the prevention of both pneumonia and influenza-related diseases.

Vaccines, especially childhood vaccines, are not without controversy. As a result of a campaign led by former Playmate and actress Jenny McCarthy, a growing number of parents are concerned in particular with the alleged link between childhood vaccines and autism, a mysterious behaviour and learning disorder. In a recent essay, Dianne Katz with the Fraser Institute reports that:

“In the first US survey of public opinion about the purported vaccine-autism link, the Florida Institute of Technology found that nearly one in four adults (24%) believed that it was safer not to immunize children because vaccines maycause autism. Another 19% weren’t sure (Florida Institute of Technology, 2008).

Katz argues that there is not persuasive link between vaccines and autism:

Despite the dearth of evidence linking vaccines to autism, parents have filed more than 5,500 claims with the US government’s Vaccine Injury Compensation Program alleging such (US Department of Health and Human Services, 2009). But a panel of the US Court of Federal Claims ruled earlier this year that “petitioners’ theories of causation were speculative and unpersuasive,” and “the weight of scientific research and authority” was “simply more persuasive on nearly every point in contention.”

Katz concludes her essay with an appeal for facts, not fear, to prevail in this important debate:

Ultimately, voters, parents, policy makers, and regulators must insist upon facts in formulating action. Star power and propaganda are only as powerful as we collectively allow them to be. Jenny McCarthy and her followers should be free, of course, to espouse whatever twisted notions they can possibly formulate. But it is incumbent upon the rest of us to distinguish myth from reality.

(Picture: Jenny McCarthy)

Posted by Matthew Johnston

Posted by westernstandard on July 23, 2009 | Permalink

Comments

Imagine my horror to refresh the blog page and see Jenny McCarthy's picture. She has become a symbol of ignorance and anti-science rhetoric.

Vaccines do not cause autism, the science is very clear.

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-23 1:29:53 PM


I had a different reaction to that photo, Scott. :-)

Posted by: Matthew Johnston | 2009-07-23 1:48:55 PM


She looks better with shorter hair.

I know that's a vacuous statement, but on the other hand, this is Jenny McCarthy. Glad to see we can agree on something, Scott.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 2:05:51 PM


I used to as well LOL

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-23 2:05:59 PM


Damn it! I forgot what I was going to write - even I'm distracted by that pic! :-)

Posted by: libertybelle | 2009-07-23 3:01:13 PM


The Jenny McCarthy Body Count

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-23 3:06:30 PM


http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-23 3:07:00 PM


You are all a buncy of idiots!!! Get over the blonde on the cover already! The new H1N1 vaccine in production may also contain thimerasol (mercury) and the public should be made aware of this especially if you are pregnant. Wake up and see the potential for potential brain damage in our children!

Posted by: Karen Freeman | 2009-07-23 4:09:56 PM


1 in 58 autism in the uk coming to America soon

GOOD WORK SCOTT

Posted by: mark | 2009-07-23 4:20:56 PM


I refuse to be vaccinated for anything. And not so much as a sniffle in 12 or more years. My idea of Gambling is ordering food delivery...And I'm not going play guinea pig for anybody.
That and I know a couple of moms who are quite sure that the reason their kids are challenged is because of vaccinations.
Pass.

Posted by: The original JC | 2009-07-23 4:36:18 PM


There are several credible 3rd party peer studies linking vaccine ingredients to childhood autism.

The list of ingredients in flu vaccine reads like a toxic stew. We demand greater accountability of makers of canned soup than we do of the mutinational pharma cartels and medical coteries whipping up and pimping these toxic time bombs which can mutate and directly compromise the immune system.

We can be thankful it's a voluntary immunizing program, so far. To force this untested potential poison into people without consent, under criminal threat, with no liability on manufacturers or authorities (like is being done in Europe and US) would invite a civil backlash here that may surprise even the state eugenics commissars who pimp the mass dispensation of unproven risky nostrums.

Also it's chilling to see the same smug blind faith the gullible mob has in these people who have used the population as lab rats for all sorts of unproven high risk drugs from thalidomide to Vioxx. Perhaps they're either too brainwashed or too young to remember the last swine flu hysteria in the 70s and the mass inoculation plan which killed more people than the flu and crippled 1000s more. Same players, same ball game. New gen of sheep to sheer.

I refuse to take this until I see the benefits and side effects. Force me to take it, we'll have issues.

But of course resistance to high risk inoculation is all tinfoil hat alarmism. Yep.

Posted by: Billy Bragg | 2009-07-23 7:19:49 PM


"The new H1N1 vaccine in production may also contain thimerasol (mercury) and the public should be made aware of this especially if you are pregnant."

"May"? It either does or it doesn't. Test it and find out one way or the other, but don't "may" us to death.

"Wake up and see the potential for potential brain damage in our children!"

Using this logic, we should also outlaw sports. More children are hurt by those than by vaccines. Oh, and has it never occurred to you to wonder why children don't get polio, smallpox, or tetanus any more? Because they're VACCINATED. Vaccination saves several orders of magnitude more than it harms, and this is a scientifically established fact.

"Save the children!" is an emotional call to action, which by its very nature discourages objective thinking. This is because the speaker either does not want his listeners to think or because she cannot think herself. In neither case is it worth listening to.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 7:35:16 PM


"I refuse to be vaccinated for anything. And not so much as a sniffle in 12 or more years."

Fortunately, JC, the decision was made for you, when you were a tot, by people who did not see conspiracies around every corner, nor black helicopters instead of stars if they received a crack to the noggin.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 7:36:58 PM


"There are several credible 3rd party peer studies linking vaccine ingredients to childhood autism."

And many more that don't.

"The list of ingredients in flu vaccine reads like a toxic stew."

A list of those ingredients, please, along with LD50s, credible alternatives, and proof that they have tested safe.

"We demand greater accountability of makers of canned soup than we do of the mutinational pharma cartels and medical coteries whipping up and pimping these toxic time bombs which can mutate and directly compromise the immune system."

And also more than we do of uninformed alarmists and all manner of "truthers" who insist that the truth is out there, even if only mavericks with tinfoil hats and imaginary friends have so far found it.

"We can be thankful it's a voluntary immunizing program, so far. To force this untested potential poison into people without consent, under criminal threat, with no liability on manufacturers or authorities (like is being done in Europe and US..."

Proof, please, that the INFLUENZA VACCINE specifically is being force-fed to adults in those countries.

"Also it's chilling to see the same smug blind faith the gullible mob has in these people who have used the population as lab rats for all sorts of unproven high risk drugs from thalidomide to Vioxx."

You alone know better, huh? Is all this surly, sour-faced bitterness, the age-old indicator of a lifetime of rejection and ridicule, intended to inspire confidence in you?

"Perhaps they're either too brainwashed or too young to remember the last swine flu hysteria in the 70s and the mass inoculation plan which killed more people than the flu and crippled 1000s more. Same players, same ball game. New gen of sheep to sheer."

Reference, please. And to something more credible than "Clayoquot Protestors Weekly" or "moveon.org."

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 7:48:11 PM


Just Saying.....

1950
3 vaccines

2004
49 vaccines by 6 months
69 vaccines by 18 months
77 vaccines by 4-6 years

The diseases injected include: measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis A & B, chicken pox (varicella zoster), polio, hib (h. influenza type B), pneumococcal, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, rotavirus and now the new flu vaccine is being recommended beginning at 6 months old.

Vaccines contain ingredients such as antifreeze, phenol (used as a disinfectant), formaldehyde (cancer causing and used to embalm), aluminum (associated with alzheimer’s disease and seizures), glycerin (toxic to the kidney, liver, can cause lung damage, gastrointestinal damage and death), lead, cadmium, sulfates, yeast proteins, antibiotics, acetone (used in nail polish remover), neomycin and streptomycin. And the ingredient making the press is thimerosol (more toxic than mercury, a preservative still used in many vaccines, not easily eliminated, can cause severe neurological damage as well as other life threatening autoimmune disease). These vaccines are grown and strained through animal or human tissue, like monkey and dog kidney tissue, chick embryo, calf serum, human diploid cells (the dissected organs of aborted fetuses), pig blood, horse blood and rabbit brain.

-----------------

Anyway I saw my son go from completely normal to a raving madman within two days of a big round of shots at one year. Coincidence? Possibly, sure. If I were alone in our experience I'd be more likely to think so. But I'm far from alone. FAR from alone.


Bob


Posted by: Bob Schatz | 2009-07-23 8:20:41 PM


"A list of those ingredients, please"

Ever hear of google Shane? The lists are right on CDC's web site. Not hard to find. Just hard to believe we inject tiny little bodies with this stuff. These kids weigh 5-20 pounds when they get many of these shots.

These are ingredients for which we would rush our kids to the emergency room if they swallowed them.

"You alone know better, huh? Is all this surly, sour-faced bitterness, the age-old indicator of a lifetime of rejection and ridicule, intended to inspire confidence in you?"

Gee whiz, looks like Shane is the bitter rejected one to me.

How many autistic kids do you know Shane? How many parents of these kids have you spoken to? Have any children yourself?

Just wondering....

Maybe this is how you entertain yourself. Some of us have autistic kids to take care of.


Bob


.

Posted by: Bob Schatz | 2009-07-23 8:44:58 PM


How many autistic kids do I know, Bob? I have one, and based on similarities between him and me, it's possible that I was an undiagnosed autistic (although probably a milder case) when I was young. His brother got the same vaccines he did and is perfectly normal. So cut the long-suffering, misunderstood shtick. It doesn't become you. It doesn't become anybody.

When something goes wrong in an apparently healthy kid, the natural instinct is to look for someone or something to blame. Since kids receive their inoculations about the same time that the symptoms of autism begin to appear, it's not surprising the two are correlated, which makes the shots a convenient target.

Practically everything you eat, drink, and touch contains trace amounts of all the chemicals you listed. Sorry, but it will take more than a frightening-sounding list to prove anything. You should see what goes into a department-store chicken. And what is cheese but rotten milk with bacteria and mould?

The question is whether these chemicals are present in sufficient quantity to cause any harm. Second-hand smoke contains more than 400 chemicals, many in concentrations higher and administered over a far longer period than is the case with a flu shot, and yet somehow no one has linked smoking with autism...yet. They're making tracks towards wi-fi tranceivers, though, you bet. Worst health threat since the black death. At least this week.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 9:16:04 PM


I don't get vaccines of any sort - I'm not convinced any of them are good!

However, in doing a fair bit of reading today, it seems to me that there are many more factors than just vaccinations influence autism.

It seems to me that with so many variables and that every person and reacts differently to vaccines, environment, etc. that it would be difficult to come up with any conclusive evidence that vaccines, in fact, are linked to autism.

Posted by: libertybelle | 2009-07-23 9:35:17 PM


"It seems to me that with so many variables and that every person and reacts differently to vaccines, environment, etc. that it would be difficult to come up with any conclusive evidence that vaccines, in fact, are linked to autism."

A very cogent argument, LB. Until the mechanism that causes autism is understood, it's hard, if not impossible, to correlate it with anything, especially since so much has changed so quickly in our world in the last 50 years.

I don't get the flu vaccine either, although not because it gives me autism. I don't get it because it gives me the flu. Got that? The flu vaccine gives me the flu. I don't whether it gives me the symptoms without contagion, or whether I'm contagious as well as symptomatic. If flu were a more serious condition and I worked around vulnerable people, I'd bite the bullet and take it anyway.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 9:42:55 PM


This is about the most concise information I could find on what it is, diagnosis, causes and potential treatment. It definitely backs up my theory that diagnosis is difficult because the disease manifests itself differently in every individual.

What is Autism?

Autism is a life-long developmental disorder that affects an individual’s ability to interact with the world around them.

While we have all heard about autism, most of us have only vague ideas of what the diagnosis means. Individuals with autism have difficulties making friends and participating in everyday social interactions. They often have restricted interests and behavioral patterns, and find comfort in routine and repetition.

Since it is a spectrum disorder, autism affects children in different ways, and no two autistic children are exactly alike. This makes things very confusing for parents who are battling to come to terms with what is best for their child, as signs of autism vary greatly. It may be helpful to devise an autism symptoms checklist to aid in diagnosing the disorder.

A common struggle for parents is the desperate efforts to try and “reach” their child, as they seem to exist in their own private world within their minds.

Diagnosing Autism

There are currently no medical tests which can diagnose autism. Signs of autism vary from individual to individual . Diagnosis is usually based on careful observation as well as information provided by parents and other caregivers on the child's behavior, communication, social interaction, and developmental levels.

There are also a number of screening tests or questionnaires which can be performed, including the CARS rating (Childhood Autism Rating Scale) and CHAT (Checklist for Autism in Toddlers).

Diagnosis can be made by pediatricians, psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, or by a multi-disciplinary team, usually utilizing an autism symptoms checklist.

What Causes Autism?

There is no known single cause of autism.

It is known that autism is a neurological disorder, and that there are differences in the shape and the structure of the brain of autistic children as opposed to non-autistic children – although this is not always the case.

While it is not known whether autism has a genetic link, the exact genes involved are unclear. Families with one autistic child have 3% - 5% chance of having a second autistic child (this differs to the 0.5% risk of the general population).

Certain ‘triggers’ have been implicated as possible precipitators of the disorder. These could include problems in pregnancy and birth, viral infections, exposure to certain environmental chemicals or pollutants, or even allergies to certain foods (i.e. gluten or dairy products).

There are also suggestions that autism may be caused by a reaction to childhood vaccines, especially those containing high amounts of mercury. Obviously more research is needed in this area.

It is important for parents to note that autism is not a mental illness and is NOT caused by bad parenting or problems in the home.
Help for Autism

While there are many different theories about the best course of treatment for autism, most professionals agree that the earlier treatment begins, the better the chances are that the child will be helped.

While there is a place for prescription medication in certain cases of autism, careful consideration and caution should be taken due to possible side effects.

There are also natural treatments for autism, including herbal and homeopathic remedies which can help maintain harmony, health, and systemic balance in the brain and nervous system, without side effects or sedation.

The best results are usually achieved by using a multidisciplinary approach and combining different therapies. It may take some time and experimentation to find the right combination of therapies for the individual.

Posted by: libertybelle | 2009-07-23 11:45:56 PM


"Save the children!" is an emotional call to action, which by its very nature discourages objective thinking. (...)

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 7:35:16 PM

Hmm, makes me think of another emotional call a year or so back: "Support the troops!" which was code for 'support the war'.

Posted by: Nothing New Under the Sun | 2009-07-24 12:41:09 AM


somebody asked about the swine flu vaccine
It contains copious amounts of mercury
One of the adjuvants is squalene.
It will be largely untested.
Are you willing to take a risk?????????

PS Vaccines cause autism. I have 2 grandchildren to prove it. Thank God for jenny McCarthy. She has done more for the autism community than any other single person. We love her.

Posted by: Maurine Meleck | 2009-07-24 6:30:14 AM


Fortunately, JC, the decision was made for you, when you were a tot, by people who did not see conspiracies around every corner, nor black helicopters instead of stars if they received a crack to the noggin.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-23 7:36:58 PM

My parents now also recognize how badly duped they were. They also do not trust big Pharma or their government buddies with our well being.
My parents got wise...without any help from me.
And since these (few) vaccinations were done at school they bought into the con that it must be good for us...but no more.

Posted by: The original JC | 2009-07-24 6:56:11 AM


"Hmm, makes me think of another emotional call a year or so back: "Support the troops!" which was code for 'support the war'."

Actually, if I recall correctly, it was code for "spit on the job they do and bring them back because they suck and because they're picking up bad habits from the Americans."

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-24 7:13:29 AM


"My parents now also recognize how badly duped they were. They also do not trust big Pharma or their government buddies with our well being."

Or have been deluded into how duped they were. The eradication of polio and several other crippling and fatal diseases is real, not propaganda. When was the last time you saw an iron lung ward at a hospital? Oh, that's right--polio's been eradicated, hasn't it? And it wasn't done by washing our hands.

"Big Pharma," huh? This reminds me of Soviet Constructivist art of top-hat-wearing, triple-chinned "Capital." The government's not the only one indulging in nickel-ante propaganda, JC.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-24 7:17:24 AM


"You alone know better, huh?"

And of course you do?
All I know is what is right for me. Apparently you presume to know whats right for all of us.

"Is all this surly, sour-faced bitterness, the age-old indicator of a lifetime of rejection and ridicule, intended to inspire confidence in you?"

You OTOH think substituting ad hominems for true wisdom is supposed to give credibility to your self professed vast understanding of the human condition. Obviously the product of a very sheltered experience filled with pretense and megalomanic piety.

My statements are fact-based gleaned from public record. Google them for validation. But for the lethargic intellect it's easier to use the "yer a liar, gimme proof" non sequitur.

Live and learn (if that's possible, as you seem to have all the answers) before you offer your hypothesis of blind trust in systems and nostrums which demonstrably are deserving of neither.


Enjoy your shots. Get a few.

Posted by: Billy Bragg | 2009-07-24 8:40:55 AM


@ Karen "The new H1N1 vaccine in production may also contain thimerasol (mercury)"

Thimerasol hasn't been used in vaccines since 1999.

In Depth Articles
Vaccines & Autism
A Deadly Manufactroversy
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-06-03

Yet another study fails to show any link between the MMR vaccine and autism
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=200

@ Maurine "Vaccines cause autism"

The science shows that it doesn't.

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 8:47:26 AM


Original JC,

I share your disgust with the rent-seeking behaviour of big pharma. The damage this has done to the ordinary consumer is simply horrifying.

I, however, do not place the largest part of the blame on big pharma. The door is wide open. Corporations have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder returns. I blame those responsible for not closing the door. And that's us. As a society we could fix this problem, but we refuse to do so.

Furthermore, I would argue that seeing an evil mastermind behind every rent-seeking corporation is highly unrealistic and makes libertarians look like conspiracy theory nuts.

Posted by: Charles | 2009-07-24 8:47:41 AM


@ libertybelle "I don't get vaccines of any sort - I'm not convinced any of them are good!"

That's fine if it’s your choice, to say not any of them are good? Remember polio? probably not, because it's been eradicated by vaccines.

More kids are dying of measles and the flu lately because they weren't vaccinated and they aren't protected by herd immunity because it is going down, I believe that’s directly related to the misinformation of people like Jenny McCarthy.

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 8:51:51 AM


Polio has not been eradicated. It lurks, in soil and water, waiting for Jehovah's Witness kids to pass by.

I was in the very early rounds of the fight against polio. I got the vaccine in Grade 1. I've known a lot of people, only a few years older than me, with withered limbs.

I had all the fun diseases. Measles almost killed me. Mumps almost sterilized me. It was part of growing up, in my day. I don't know if total immunization is a good idea, but some of those diseases are a real nuisance.

Flu shots are a different story. Nobody realy knows if they're effective. I think we're being hoaxed. My girlfriend(1976) had to get a swine flu shot, because she worked in a seniors facility. We found out, later, that the shots killed more people than the flu ever did.

Look at all the products we've been told we need to have with us, at all times. Sunscreen, DEET, Omega-3, lip balm. It's almost impossible to keep young people focused, when working outside. I've had kids ask me to rub sunscreen on hard to reach areas. Not only are they brainwashed, they're not very flexible, and they don't know how to dress.

Posted by: dp | 2009-07-24 10:45:15 AM


@ dp "Polio has not been eradicated."

Check this out...

"These efforts have reduced the number of annual diagnosed cases by 99%; from an estimated 350,000 cases in 1988 to 1,310 cases in 2007"

Vaccines did this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis#Eradication

"Measles almost killed me. Mumps almost sterilized me. It was part of growing up, in my day."

My kids will probably never get these diseases, they have immunization.

"We found out, later, that the shots killed more people than the flu ever did. "

BS

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 11:11:12 AM


"PS Vaccines cause autism. I have 2 grandchildren to prove it. Thank God for jenny McCarthy. She has done more for the autism community than any other single person. We love her."

Uh huh. Funny how most of the people who buy into this nonsense tend to be the kind who gush forth emotion and exhibit very little thinking. Jenny McCarthy's a real sweetie, so she must be right, is that it? Compared to the bulldog-jowled, suspender-wearing middle-aged men who run the multinational pharmaceutical companies and are just trying to pad their bottom line.

Lady, let me tell you something. Our oldest son missed his 12-month vaccinations and got autism anyway. A woman we work with has adopted six children, four of them autistic. Only two of them were vaccinated, and one of the unvaccinated ones is the worst of the bunch.

"We love her." Good grief. And to think your vote counts for as much as mine. Life is indeed a farce.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-24 11:18:03 AM


"And of course you do?"

I know what established science says, and I believe that over gushings of "Thank God for Jenny McCarthy; we love her!"

"All I know is what is right for me. Apparently you presume to know whats right for all of us."

How do you know what is right for you medically? Are you a doctor? Do you have any kind of medical, biological, or pharmacological training at all? How do you know what's going on inside your body right now? You could have cancer and not know it.

"You OTOH think substituting ad hominems for true wisdom is supposed to give credibility to your self professed vast understanding of the human condition."

I have found that a person's demeanour can reveal a lot about a person, and also about why he says and does what he does. It's called reading people. And yes, it even works over the Internet, provided the other person is not intentionally deceiving you.

"Obviously the product of a very sheltered experience filled with pretense and megalomanic piety."

Never use "obviously" in debate; it weakens your argument. If it's as obvious as you say, you don't need to say it's obvious. It's also wrong, as stated above, and therefore not obvious in the least.

"My statements are fact-based gleaned from public record."

Myths are also fact-based. This statement is meaningless.

"Google them for validation. But for the lethargic intellect it's easier to use the "yer a liar, gimme proof" non sequitur."

I already have Googled them. Most of them are hysterical opinion pieces by weepy parents or shameless publicity hounds. Numerous studies have failed to find any substantive link between vaccines and autism. What's more, my wife is involved in the health care industry and must attend numerous continuing-ed courses throughout the year, where the latest developments in this topic and many others come up. And I'll take the word of trained pros over the mutterings of a moron with a mouse.

"Live and learn (if that's possible, as you seem to have all the answers) before you offer your hypothesis of blind trust in systems and nostrums which demonstrably are deserving of neither."

Learning is the process of acquiring answers, is it not? The fact that I have so many ought to suggest that I have learned a lot. Has it occurred to you that you are placing equally blind trust in bloggers and goofy celebrities?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-24 11:29:58 AM


dp, polio has, for all intents and purposes, disappeared from the North American continent. The vaccine did that. Nothing else. And if you'd had to spend your entire life in an iron lung, you'd probably consider it more than just a "nuisance."

I understand the points you raise about how overprotected and pampered the youth of today are. I blame women, and their obsession with safety and security, but that's a debate for another day. However, when something removes from the picture what was once the great crippler of children and young adults, I have a hard time coming up with bad things to say about it.

P.S. If the sun is really bright I wear lightweight, high-SPF fishing clothes with long sleeves, pants, and a Tilley hat. If it's buggy I wash them in Permethrin, and if it's really buggy I can always wear a bug veil or a scarf. Tank tops and bikini briefs may look sexy on the beach, but dress like that in a bog or forest and you're offering the local insects free fixin's. Once met an elderly Chinese couple picking herbs in the Elaho Forest while hunting deer. Those two were properly accoutred--and unmolested. If you can't reach it, cover it.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-24 11:41:56 AM


Scott- I've only heard of one death from swine flu, in 1976. I've heard of at least twenty from reaction to the swine flu shot. If you have other information, I'd like to see it.

Did you think I was making comments against polio immunization? You should read the comments again. My parents were old enough to have heard first hand accounts of smallpox outbreaks. I'm a true believer in immunization.

I think flu shots are a hoax. There's no rule that says, if I believe in immunization, I have to agree to flu shots. Flu must be controlled by the human immune system. If you want a shot, go for it.

Posted by: dp | 2009-07-24 11:47:21 AM


The truth, dp, is that flu kills thousands of people every year. You're more likely to die from flu than from a car crash. But no one thinks of it as a deadly disease, because it tends to kill only those who are already very weak or sick.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-24 12:10:52 PM


"I'm a true believer in immunization."

Sorry if I misunderstood you dp.

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 12:15:48 PM


"I have one, and based on similarities between him and me, it's possible that I was an undiagnosed autistic (although probably a milder case) when I was young. His brother got the same vaccines he did and is perfectly normal."

Shane, I'm truly sorry for your situation and wish your kid/kids the best. However your decision to declare this as "evidence" is very telling.


"Practically everything you eat, drink, and touch contains trace amounts of all the chemicals you listed. Sorry, but it will take more than a frightening-sounding list to prove anything. You should see what goes into a department-store chicken. And what is cheese but rotten milk with bacteria and mould?"


I hope you are wrong that heavy metals, formaldehyde, mercury (pregnant women are told to stay far away) etc are in everything we eat.

Would you feed these things to your children, especially as infants, intentionally? Would you inject them with these things intentionally, you know, since they are harmless?

Remember what is trace to a 200 pound adult is a much different dose to a 10 or 20 pound infant.

Bob

Posted by: Bob Schatz | 2009-07-24 9:22:41 PM


Thimerasol hasn't been used in vaccines since 1999.


Sorry Scott, you are wrong, at least in the US.

Bob

Posted by: Bob Schatz | 2009-07-24 9:23:19 PM


FYI Bob...


"all new vaccines licensed since 1999 are free of thimerosal as a preservative."
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/QuestionsaboutVaccines/UCM070430


"In July 1999, following a review of mercury-containing food and drugs, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) asked vaccine makers to remove thiomersal from vaccines as quickly as possible, and it was rapidly phased out of most U.S. and European vaccines.[5][6] "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 9:59:14 PM


FYI Bob...


"all new vaccines licensed since 1999 are free of thimerosal as a preservative."
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/QuestionsaboutVaccines/UCM070430

Sorry.

Lots (and lots) of legacy concoctions are given daily Scott.

New licenses may or may not contain Mercury. Many currently issued vaccines still contain this potent neurotoxin. Flu and other shots are still routinely given to infants. This saves a dollar or two by allowing multi dose containers to be used.

Would you offer daily fish dinners from questionable waters to your pregnant wife? Probably not. Would you inject your newborn with thimerosol?

Many people do.

"In July 1999, following a review of mercury-containing food and drugs, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) asked vaccine makers to remove thiomersal from vaccines as quickly as possible, and it was rapidly phased out of most U.S. and European vaccines.[5][6] "

Hmmm. Wonder why it is still commonplace? Check the CDC web site if you don't believe me.

best,

Bob


Posted by: Bob Schatz | 2009-07-24 11:30:03 PM


"Lots (and lots) of legacy concoctions are given daily Scott. "

I'm not sure what you mean by this, that there are vaccines that are over 10 years old being given? I haven't heard that claim before,and would ask for evidence. That certainly wouldn't be true of flu vaccines, since the flu mutates often and new vaccines need to be made every season.

"New licenses may or may not contain Mercury."

That's not really saying much is it :)

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 11:41:20 PM


I have been reading this blog and the debate going back and forth about vaccines and their supposed link with autism and just had to add something here. I am a believer in SOME vaccines for our children. I understand that vaccines have eradicated certain diseases from our population. Hip Hip Horary for that! What I can’t understand is how some of us can honestly say with absolute certainty that vaccines have NO link to autism what so ever. Where is the ABSOLUTE proof of this?? There is none. For every good argument PRO vaccine, there is another case against them. The way I see it is that every individual is different and can react differently. Why is it that I can eat a peanut butter sandwich but yet that could kill my husband!
I am a new mom with a 4-month-old baby that is UNVACCINATED at this time. Will he get vaccines – YES. Am I waiting until he is a little older before I start dosing his body with TOXINS in order to comply and protect us from diseases that hasn’t been in this country for over a decade – YES. Will I follow the CDC’s recommended schedule – HELL NO. It is absolutely asinine to give a one day old baby Hep B. It’s even more asinine to give Hep B again at 1 month.
I am not arguing the fact that some children end up with autism that has never been vaccinated. I will also however not flat out IGNORE (as some of you are) the fact that there ARE children in this country that are fine, laughing and happy on day, get a vaccine, and within 48 hours are glaring into outer space. This we cannot ignore people! HELLOOOOOOO!
Maybe there are added complications in these particular situations like; the child had been on antibiotics or the child was lacking Vitamin D (which is a latest report – not my own opinion). The bottom line is that we cannot just lump all situations together and say "well because BobbyJo has never been vaccinated and he now has autism, there is clearly no link". We need more studies and an “alternative vaccine schedule” for our kids. I also think that before our kids get the same vaccines over and over and over, why don’t more doctor offices draw blood for a titer test to see what their personal immunity is. If sufficient – then stop giving the dam vaccine. It’s not hard!
I deal with titer tests in animals everyday so I know the tests work! (Not comparing anyone’s child to an animal – just saying that titer tests do work)!
And by the way – I’m not at my computer every min of every day so for those derogatory comments, which will fly from this, don’t think I ran with my tail tucked. This is trying to OPEN the minds of so many which are obviously closed!

Posted by: dd | 2009-07-25 6:53:17 AM


"What I can’t understand is how some of us can honestly say with absolute certainty that vaccines have NO link to autism what so ever. "

Becasue the scientific evidcence shows this to be true.

"Am I waiting until he is a little older before I start dosing his body with TOXINS "

Toxins? What toxins?

"We need more studies and an “alternative vaccine schedule” for our kids."

There are already many many studies. You can pick when to vaccinate your kids.

"Not comparing anyone’s child to an animal "

We are animals :)

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-25 9:03:09 AM


"Shane, I'm truly sorry for your situation and wish your kid/kids the best. However your decision to declare this as "evidence" is very telling."

Not direct evidence in the manner you speak of, Bob. Merely to show that anecdotal evidence is largely meaningless. It is largely just such evidence that anti-vaccine activists offer to make their case. Which means, of course, that they have no proof at all. Thanks for the good wishes. Michael is a mild case; he speaks in (somewhat idiosyncratic) sentences; he looks people in the eye; he's very independent and conscientious; he's learning rapidly and all his BAs and teachers are very pleased with his progress.

"I hope you are wrong that heavy metals, formaldehyde, mercury (pregnant women are told to stay far away) etc are in everything we eat."

Everything, Bob. Heavy metals do come from Nature, after all. Mercury, lead, and especially gold are far more widespread than most people believe. But the concentrations are so low that they're usually not worth worrying about, and our life expectancies continue to grow in spite of all.

"Would you feed these things to your children, especially as infants, intentionally? Would you inject them with these things intentionally, you know, since they are harmless?"

I do it every day and so do you. I don't scan our food for traces of contaminants, but I do know they are there. They are everywhere. Your skin is filthy, an expanse of microscopic canyons and fissures packed with dirt and oil and fungus. Ninety percent of the cells in your body are not human, but E. coli living in your lower gut--yes, THAT E. coli, of McDonald's and Jack-in-the-Box fame. We do not live in a Class Five clean room.

"Remember what is trace to a 200 pound adult is a much different dose to a 10 or 20 pound infant."

Yes--about ten to twenty times as much. Worry a bit about these chemicals affecting kids more per weight-compensated dose because of their faster cell division and rapid development, but an entire generation of Gen X-ers grew up in a haze of baby boomer cigarette smoke loaded with far more chemicals than they'll ever receive from vaccinations and turned out to be one of the healthiest and most health-conscious generations ever.

Seriously, you guys worry too much. Life has plenty of problems as it is; don't go making more.

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-25 9:17:05 AM


dd, if you're looking for ABSOLUTE proof that there is no link between these vaccines or autism, you will seek in vain. It is scientifically impossible to definitely prove a negative. But then, you knew that. You were just hoping that the "closed-minded" among us didn't.

Some people might find your passion compelling, but a thinking person will find it empty, useless, and even pernicious. Emotion is no substitute for logic. The trouble with this debate is that most of the people on one side are in hysterics half the time. And have you considered the logistics involved in running titers done on every single child in the entire country?

Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-07-25 9:25:17 AM


If you are a libertarian you know you own your body and those of your minor children.

If you can read and understand basic statistics you know the that the smoking/cancer link is several orders of magnitude less compelling than the vaccination/autism link. (and how do "public health" officials sanctify that science?)

As responsible adults how can we accept the compelling evidence that there is statisticaly zero incidence of autism in never-vaccinated populations and a high correlation between autism and multiple-vaccinated populations?

Public health measures are often the precursor to sacrifice of freedom. Are you prepared to shoot the dice with your children's future and risk the erosion of your natural born right to sovereignty over your own body?

As an aside ALL influenza vaccines contain thimerosol and as certain as sunshine in July not all genotypes can excrete heavy metals with equal ability and the those who can not tend to develop autistic behaviors.

Posted by: peter | 2009-07-25 10:17:13 AM


"If you are a libertarian you know you own your body and those of your minor children. "

I feel uncomfortable saying that I "own" my children, I think it is more accurate to say that I have a stewardship over my children until they can account for themselves.

"statisticaly zero incidence of autism in never-vaccinated populations"

I don't know if that's true, and if it were, correlation is not causation.

"As an aside ALL influenza vaccines contain thimerosol "

That is just not true. I've provided links to the FDA site that clearly state that it was removed in 1999. Besides that, since thimerosol was removed autism rates have gone up, which shows that it likely wasn't a factor.

MORE people are getting sick and dying from preventable diseases because of less vaccinations, and herd immunity is also decreasing because of this. As a result of a lessened herd immunity, people that cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons are more susceptible to getting these diseases.

Follow the evidence, the science is quite clear.

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-25 10:32:31 AM


That certainly wouldn't be true of flu vaccines, since the flu mutates often and new vaccines need to be made every season.

"New licenses may or may not contain Mercury."

That's not really saying much is it :)

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-24 11:41:20 PM


All are good reasons not to bother with the majority of these concoctions. Our bodies build natural immunities to the majority of ailments we come across. Try working on a healthier diet and some exercise.

Posted by: The original JC | 2009-07-25 10:44:22 AM


"Our bodies build natural immunities to the majority of ailments we come across. "

Try for many things, but not for polio, flu (which kills thousands of people per year), cervical caner (vaccine available for that for women) and a host of other diseases.

Posted by: Scott Carnegie | 2009-07-25 11:11:44 AM



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