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Tuesday, June 30, 2009
Ignatieff tries to win the west by demonizing Calgary
Michael Ignatieff has long been a proponent of the Liberal Party reaching out to western Canada. I remember in the first leadership race that he ran in, he would often say that the party should do more to bring westerners into the Liberal fold. In a recent Globe & Mail article Michael Ignatieff had this to say:
“The big issue for me is I don't want to be a party of Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, which is what this party is,” Mr. Ignatieff said in an interview. “Because you can't be a good prime minister unless you represent all Canadians.”
This is true. The great weakness of the Liberal Party is that they have become the urban party. They even elected an urban intellectual elite as their leader (I hope to become an urban intellectual elite one day), though Mr.Ignatieff had a response to this:
“Frankly,” he said, “I think it's condescending to westerners that being a so-called intellectual is some big liability. People out here are as devoted to the life of the mind, and the life of culture, as anybody else in the country. So I don't think that's going to fly. It's just stupid.”
This at the very least shows that he doesn't think of all westerners as dumb rednecks. He sees that there is an intellectual life beyond Toronto and Montreal.
He is even willing to put down the anti-oil sands 'stick':
“I think sometimes we tried to establish our environmental bona fides by running against the oil sands,” he said. “And I just think: This is a national industry. It's pumping something like $8-billion into the federal treasury. So it's slightly bad faith to beat the goose that lays the golden egg over the head with a stick."
Then he said this:
“The alternative [Mr. Harper] is a politician formed and shaped in the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary and Calgary think tanks,” Mr. Ignatieff said.
I don't really understand the political strategy of trying to win over a region by bashing one of its major centres. Of course Calgary is not the be all and end all of all there is in western Canada, but as an outsider to the region is it really such a good idea to take such pot shots? He is demonizing Harper because he comes from a western city, is that really the way to gain new western support? It makes the rest of his fine words ring rather hollow.
Put this together with the recent Liberal activity to prevent a vote to abolish the gun registry. I think Mr. Ignatieff needs to realize that if the Liberal Party is going to have any success west of the Great Lakes he needs more than fine words. He needs to change his and his party's attitudes.
Posted by Hugh MacIntyre on June 30, 2009 in Canadian Politics | Permalink
Comments
That's some nioce political spin there, Hugh. Well done! Now, how about some truth. Ignatieff did not "demonize" Calgary. He specifically named "the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary" and "Calgary think tanks". There is a lot more to Calgary than the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary and Calgary think tanks. Ignatieff is not saying Harper was shaped by the streets of Calgary (where he did not grow up - so he is not "from" Calgary in that sense), but that he was shaped by the ideological ivory tower world he inhabited while a university student there.
You can play the fake outrage game and the false accusation game if you like. It seems to be par for the course for most political commentators, so God forbid you would actually do otherwise. But it's just more of the usual bullshit and has nothing at all to do with what policies are best for the country. Talking substance is hard, I know, but how about trying?
Posted by: Fact Check | 2009-06-30 8:46:34 AM
I think Mr. Ignatieff needs to realize that if the Liberal Party is going to have any success west of the Great Lakes he needs more than fine words. He needs to change his and his party's attitudes.
Posted by Hugh MacIntyre
Yes he will have to but he won't. There's no need - the East has all he needs. Therefore he will continue to degrade westerners, and especially Albertans, because it gets votes. His hero, Pierre the Terrible (mercy for the poor victims of his regime) did that and it worked.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-06-30 8:47:59 AM
Hugh
"...The great weakness of the Liberal Party is that they have become the urban party..."
In Canada today that is not a political weakness. Why do you think the long gun registry is still in place and will stay in some form or another. Urban voters rule and the Conservative government would fall if they did the right thing by killing it.
As for isolating Calgary, it's simply dividing and conquering. The Liberals are stronger in Edmonton and the resentment of Calgary in many regions is already a fixture of the politics of resentment and hatred which typifies the left-libs.
Posted by: John Chittick | 2009-06-30 10:09:33 AM
"Ignatieff did not "demonize" Calgary. He specifically named "the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary" and "Calgary think tanks". There is a lot more to Calgary than the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary and Calgary think tanks."
Nice try, FC, resident contrarian extraordinaire. He specifically targeted Calgary, suggesting that such thinking is to be found only there, if not that such thinking is universal there. A better way of putting it would have been "radical conservative think-tanks." If we want any more moral outrage out of you, we'll mail you a couple of dead cats.
(Dead of natural causes, of course.)
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-06-30 11:39:09 AM
Shane, Shane, Shane .... Poor fool.
"...suggesting that such thinking is to be found only there, if not that such thinking is universal there."
Only? Universal? Oh, please! Yes, I am sure that Iggy thinks that no one in Ontario, his home province, thinks similarly. I am also sure he also believes that the Liberal candidates (and NDP and Green, too) that ran in Calgary think this way. Yes, Iggy is really that dumb. You found him out, Shane!
"He specifically targeted Calgary"
Nope. You know, given that there is an intellectual tradition that he was talking about that is called the Calgary School, it should not be a mystery what Iggy meant when he said "the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary" and "Calgary think tanks".
I think Hugh knows better, but likes to play spinmeister. But you Shane? I think you are just the kind of moron Hugh is out to spin into a fit. Again, well done, Hugh!
Posted by: Fact Check | 2009-06-30 12:03:13 PM
"Only? Universal? Oh, please!...You know, given that there is an intellectual tradition that he was talking about that is called the Calgary School, it should not be a mystery what Iggy meant when he said "the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary" and "Calgary think tanks"."
He wasn't speaking to intellectuals who could be expected to know that, though, was he? He was speaking to ordinary Canadians, mostly easterners (his chief supporters), to whom Alberta-bashing has become something of a pastime. As far as many of them are concerned, Alberta is the 51st state.
This is going to stun you, Fact Check, but most of us aren't intellectuals. We are far too busy living in the real world to give our lives over to such empty contemplation.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-06-30 2:01:21 PM
Iggy went to Univ of Toronto, Harvard and Oxford, yet HE says Harper came from a rarefied environment. Incredible.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-06-30 3:22:19 PM
Shane,
"This is going to stun you, Fact Check, but most of us aren't intellectuals."
No, I'm not surprised, but it is nice to see you admit you are too stupid to understand what Iggy said. Speaking of which....
"Iggy went to Univ of Toronto, Harvard and Oxford, yet HE says Harper came from a rarefied environment. Incredible."
No, Zeb, he was not criticising Harper for having a higher education. He was criticising him for the specific nature of that education - the "radical conservative ideology" of it.
Posted by: Fact Check | 2009-06-30 3:37:56 PM
Fact Check: and Iggy doesn't have a certain perspective from attending those elitist institutions?
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-06-30 3:44:55 PM
Fact Check.
"Nope. You know, given that there is an intellectual tradition that he was talking about that is called the Calgary School, it should not be a mystery what Iggy meant when he said "the radical conservative ideological world of Calgary" and "Calgary think tanks"."
It is not a mystery, nor merely a reference to a political science department. It was, foremost a public statement in an attempt to regionalize political convictions.
Posted by: Timothy Shaw-Zak | 2009-06-30 4:23:09 PM
Fact Check is probably right about what Iggy meant to say. Still, he probably could have said it better, without the reference to Calgary. Politically, Iggy's statement was problematic.
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2009-06-30 4:42:03 PM
Hey may have meant that or he may have not. Perhaps there is more to the qoute that was cut out that would clearify the issue.
I confess that I assumed a political meaning rather than an acadimic meaning from his words. He was afterall speaking politically and there is a multitude of other phrasng choices that he could have used to indicate he meant the 'calgary school'
"...ideological world of the University of calgary..."
"...ideolgical world of the Calgary School..."
"....radical conservative ideological world and think tanks" (after all the Fraser Institute is based in Vancouver)
"...radical ideoligical world of people who think freedom is good."
Instead of all those he used 'Calgary' on its own and he meant it in a derogatory manner.
Posted by: hughmacintyre | 2009-06-30 4:57:40 PM
It's sad because Calgary (and Alberta) doesn't bash Toronto nearly as much as the reverse. Yes Mr. Klein did so in 1981, but not much since.
I would of course - I would deride the Easterners as white supremacist rich elitists who don't care about anyone other than themselves. It's the least those people deserve.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-06-30 5:10:45 PM
It's probably too late, but Iggy has got to start sounding more Prime Ministerial. Taking shots at Harper is something that one of Iggy's attack dogs should be doing.
I get the sense that what we see here of Iggy is more the result of what his handlers are telling him to do, than what he is really like. As Norman Spector said yesterday on Vancouver's CKNW, the handlers should "let Iggy be Iggy".
Posted by: Macky Avelli | 2009-06-30 5:57:32 PM
"No, I'm not surprised, but it is nice to see you admit you are too stupid to understand what Iggy said. Speaking of which...."
Piss up a rope, FC. Not knowing intellectual jargon has far less to do with intelligence or education than it does with someone's choice of profession and lifestyle. If YOU'RE too stupid to know this plain fact, then...
"No, Zeb, he was not criticising Harper for having a higher education. He was criticising him for the specific nature of that education - the "radical conservative ideology" of it."
Harper is an economist, Ignatieff is a professor of history with barely four years' experience is an MP who yet fancies himself better equipped to govern. Foreign policy is a non-issue for Canada. We'd do far better to a elect a leader who will worry more about our own country than what other countries will think of us.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-06-30 6:45:17 PM
Isn't it a bit dishonest to put such a twist on what Ignatieff actually said?
And isn't it a bit sloppy to say that Harper comes from a Western city?
Harper was born, and grew up in TORONTO. Not Calgary. Affluent lifestyle, father was in the oil business as an accountant.
He went to U of Toronto, dropped out and went to work in a mailroom of an oil company, probably a friend of his father's.
Not From Calgary - From Toronto. That's why he's different from most Albertans.
Posted by: Elizabeth Montgomery/Calgary | 2009-06-30 7:13:29 PM
Zebulon Pike -- the quote says "radical", not "rarefied". lmao!! Do you know what each of those words means? "Rarefied" means "highly specialized" or "exalted". Ignatieff went to Harvard, but it's not "rarefied" as there are a lot of Canadian grads from Harvard, including Flaherty, the marvellous magical Minister of Finance.
The Calgary School was/is "radical", as the Alliance Church is a radical Fundamentalist church - (also attended by the elite of the Conservatives).
Ignatieff was right. It's run by Prof. Flanagan - an American Republican who came up here because he found more of an audience for his thinking in Calgary than he did in the US. He was a major influence over Harper -- an American!! However, that's changed. He's very critical of Harper now.
********************
Iggy went to Univ of Toronto, Harvard and Oxford, yet HE says Harper came from a rarefied environment. Incredible.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-06-30 3:22:19 PM
***********
And what I'd like to know is why didn't this author finish up what Ignatieff said?
Ignatieff was quoted at the end of the article:
"To the degree that this is about my patriotism and my devotion to Canada, frankly -- get lost."
I guess this journalist didn't publish that because it sounds too much like a slogan:
"Get Lost, Harper!!" or "Harper, Get Lost".
Take your pick.
Posted by: Elizabeth Montgomery/Calgary | 2009-06-30 7:23:32 PM
Elizabeth, the man identifies himself as a Calgarian and he has spent most of his adult life in Calgary. So I don't have any problem saying that he is from Calgary. It would be like an immigrant from Pakistan who moved here when they were 18 saying that they are Canadian. Or would you correct them and tell them that they are Pakistani?
Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2009-06-30 7:43:25 PM
Or would you correct them and tell them that they are Pakistani?
Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2009-06-30 7:43:25 PM
I would tell him he was a pakistani.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-06-30 8:40:32 PM
"Get Lost, Harper!!" or "Harper, Get Lost".
Take your pick.
Posted by: Elizabeth Montgomery
Maybe you could wiggle your nose and he would disappear. Or better yet wiggle it and have Zebulon Punk disappear.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-06-30 8:43:22 PM
I would deride the Easterners as white supremacist rich elitists who don't care about anyone other than themselves.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2009-06-30 5:10:45 PM
And I would deride Albertans as inbred pickup driving hicks. No other province would elect a moron like Stelmach. Albertans think that Paul Brandt is Canada's best country artist when that title actually belongs to Shania Twain. Albertans can't even develop their own oil resources they have to bring in "foreign" experts. Alberta has had two chartered banks both of them went bust. Too bad the climate wasn't warmer and you could grow bananas.
Posted by: The Stig | 2009-06-30 9:09:25 PM
Only in Canada could Harper and his party be tagged as "radical conservatives". If you looked at some of the main center-right parties in other countries then you would undrstand that he is really a centrist. Mexico's governing PAN party is to the right of him. So, are the Republicans in the states. Can you tell me Harper is to the right of Berlusconi(Italy) or David Cameron(Britain)? What about in comparison to the right-wing parties that dominate most of eastern europe? Harper is a middle of the roader. The problem is that for too many years, Canada has been governed to the left of Sweden. Think not! Then, go look at the platform of the Swedish Moderate party(the main party in the current center-right government). Are Harper's Conservatives really much more conservative than that party. Look at parties like the Progress Party and Christian Peoples Partyin Norway. These two parties are to the right of the Canadian Conservative Party and will form the next government. The Progress Party is economically libertarian, tough on crime(wants to reinstate death penalty in war time), opposed gay marriage, supports gun rights, and hardline on immigration. The Christian People Party is pro-life, anti-gay agenda, pro-state church, tough on crime, and adopts a more moderate position on economics. Canada needs a giant shift to the right to fit into the international mainstream.
Posted by: Jack | 2009-06-30 10:06:34 PM
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