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Saturday, March 14, 2009
Mr. Bentley enters his rehab
At last, new trophy wife in tow, Todd Bentley, the Canadian evangelist who has been having many problems over the past year (to put it lightly) has entered rehabilitation. Over seven months after the collapse of his internationally famous revival in the U.S., he has at last gotten around to going to North Carolina to come under the mentoring of charismatic leader Rick Joyner. Mr. Joyner is to help him return to ministry. Yet, already, in the annoucements and videos that are coming out with Mr. Bentley, there's more backspin than at a convention of billiards players evident, which is not a good omen for those hoping that Mr. Bentley can return to his work with integrity and a good character.
As videos began to be released a couple of days ago, there was a flurry of commentary and a bit of news coverage. Blogger Miriam Franklin has already weighed in with several pointed critical posts on Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley. I'd defintely agree with her on one point she has made, namely that people are concentrating too much on Mr. Bentley's divorce and quickie remarriage to Jessa, whose affair with the evangelist seems to be the proxinate cause of the "Lakeland revival". Not so. The affair was a symptom not a cause. That is to say, Mr. Bentley had a character problem that exhibited itself in lying from the pulpit about, for example, raising people from the dead. There were some aberrant, heretical things being said and done at Lakeland. And he was canoodling with a younger, prettier intern while his wife was either watching the kids or taking the pulpit herself to promote what her husband was doing. Marrying Jessa will likely not fix what leads to these sorts of actions.
My blogging friend Bene Diction makes an excellent point in a post that notes that many prominent charismatic groups and churches are slumping in the amount of people that are logging on to their sites. This relates to several things that I have been seeing on The Elijah List, an e-list that caters to charismatics, to the effect that people with alleged prophetic insight are commenting that God will bring Christians through the current economic woes, or bless them in amazing ways financially. There are reports of layoffs at ministries, and the tone of requests for donations has been stepped up. All this backs up Bene Diction's suspicion that there may be a lot of pressure to get Bentley out on the road prematurely so, as the "star" of the "Lakeland revival", he can start to draw the crowds again.
Mr. Joyner's first letter, announcing that Bentley and new wife had arrived, also noted that Mr. Bentley has a new ministry, Fresh Fire USA, which is organized under Mr. Joyner's own ministry for now. Those wanting to help Mr. Bentley were offered Fresh Fire USA's address. So, I had to smile when religion editor Frank Lockwood of the Arkansas Democrat, on his religious news blog, titled his note on Mr. Bentley's restoration process: "Sorry about the adultery. Please send $$$" .
Charisma, the magazine of record for charismatic Christians in the U.S., is covering this too. Their own story has an intestesting note. At the tail end of Bentley's time in Florida, a team of charismatic leaders and ministers lead by C. Peter Wagner held a special commissioning service for Bentley which was broadcast worldwide via Internet, in which the "Revival Alliance" members predicted that Bentley would go from success to success. They welcomed Bentley as a member of their group and even gave him a special ring, but Charisma's story quotes Revival Alliance member John Arnott (known for pastoring the "Toronto Blessing" in the 1990s) as saying that Bentley is no longer considered a "member in good standing" of their group. Mr. Wagner and Mr. Arnott revealed some of Bentley's misdeeds in the aftermath of his leaving the revival, so Mr. Bentley has evidently decided to form alliances with those who are more sympathtic to him, such as Mr. Joyner.
Mr. Joyner features in another Charisma item as well. Charisma editor J. Lee Grady, in his latest column, is disgusted with the rush to bring Bentley back too quickly, calling it a "travesty". Mr. Grady is righteously indignant, but what I find telling is Mr. Joyner's response. He writes, in part:
Lee, I love some of the things you write, but I also feel that some are straight from the mouth of the accuser.
I'll need to translate this for non-Christians. Mr. Joyner is referring to Revelation 12:10 which mentions that Satan is the "accuser of the brethren" (i.e. christians). So, what Mr. Joyner is saying here is that Mr. Grady, editor of a charismatic Christian magazine, is channeling Satan, basically.
It should go without saying that if you are a professing Christian, one of the worst possible insults that you could use would be to say that your opponent is being used by the devil as a ventriliquist dummy.
One would think that "fighting dirty" would be abhorrent for a Christian such as Mr. Joyner.
Mr. Joyner, as the conservative site Apologetics Index notes has a history of doing other things that would raise the eyebrows of many Christians. He has a reputation of being "prophetic" and having special insight from the Lord, but non-Christian sceptics would no doubt be amused that he occasionally sees through a glass very darkly, such as his prediction of Los Angeles being levelled by an earthquake and nuclear bombs in the 1990s.
Mr. Joyner's occasiional intemperance, as exhibited in his response to Mr. Grady, may also be shown in one of his famous prohetic words, in his book The Final Quest, about the "Blues and the Grays". He predicts a coming civil war in Christianity, with the winning side (of which Mr. Joyner is a part, of course) defeats the Christians who have been misled by Satan being defeated and removed from their positions of authority in the church. We must "remove the cancer from our midst" he writes in his book. (I wonder, given the violence waged between Christians in history, and in our own time, whether it is appropriate to share these sorts of visions in public. Certainly, Christians should "contend for the faith", but so sadly, they do not need encouragment to turn to violence in the direst of circumstances.)
I note these things and note that Mr. Bentley, when not kneeing cancer victims in the stomach, has often delighted in telling his audiences about times that he has kicked old ladies in the head with his biker boot and such. (As I write, some of these stories are preserved on YouTube.) Amongst the fruits of the Holy Spirit that should be exhibited by an evangelist such as Mr. Bentley are meekness, gentleness and self-control. I have to ask whether Mr. Bentley's mentor, Mr. Joyner, would be effective in advising him here when Mr. Joyner himself--this week--accuses his opponents of speaking on Satan's behalf, and cherishes visions of winning a "war in the church". Yes, often the flawed have to help the flawed, but this is not promising.
On to the videos that have been released to explain Mr. Bentley's rehabilitation process. The first video from Mr. Joyner's ministry has Mr. Bentley himself as a guest. I'm posting a copy of most of the first video that has been saved on YouTube in case the videos start to disappear from Mr. Joyner's own website:
Some things that jump out at me:
1. You'll notice that Mr. Bentley is full of talk of mistakes and errors, but never mentions the word "sin". Even Jimmy Swaggart had the grace to cry "I have sinned," when he next appeared before the public after he sinned.
Not that people would demand a pound of flesh, of course. But talk of sin and sinning would indicate that Mr. Bentley is a lot more serious about making things right than his critics think that he is. The evangelist already has the problem that it took him over half a year to begin this supposedly important process, so he needs to be seen to be taking it seriously.
2. I don't really believe that in an age of fax, e-mail and videoconferencing that it was impossible for Mr. Bentley to be working on his visa appeal with the U.S. custonms officials while moving to North Carolina. I'm sure that it is done all the time for compassionate reasons, for example. I sincerely doubt that it would be impossible as Mr. Bentley implies.
3. As a Canadian, I am a little dismayed to hear Mr. Bentley say this:
"....Shonnah's doing everything she can to help with my immigration process...."
It would appear that Mr. Bentley is tring to become a landed immigrant or even a U.S. citizen. No points for guessing that his marriage to Jessa was designed to help with this.
If we grant for a moment that Mr. Bentley's faith, giftings and burden to convert non-Christians are valid, this is sad. Yes, Canadian christians have been moving to the U.S. to pursue their calling since Aimee Semple McPherson, but the United States already has so many ministers and so much resources. If Mr. Bentley is who he says he is, the church in Canada needs people like him. Of course, his critics would say that Mr. Bentley should not let the door hit him on the behind as he leaves Canada. But the need is acute. If Mr. Bentley's style of faith-healing evangelism is what is needed, then it is particularly sad that he never devoted much effort to the nearest major city to where he lived, Vancouver. (The last time that he himself ministered in the city was at a medium sized church over five years ago.)
Of course, Mr. Benley's citics could question how committed Mr. Bentley was committed to "revival" in Canada's cities and towns in the first place, based on his decision to move.
4. Mr. Bentley, 7:30 into the video, starts talking about how he dealt with problems as an unsaved teenager:
"....That old [sin] nature in you is when you hurt someone, you just want to give up and run away from the whole thing. That's how I dealt with pain as I grew up as a child. If I was hurt or rejected or I disappointed my mother or disappointed my father, I just packed up and moved to the next town. When I burned all the bridges there, I just packed up and moved. This time we want to deal with everything square in the face...."
Let's follow his logic. Mr. Bentley says that it is sinful, or at least immature, to deal with problems by running away from them. This is after he has divorced his wife and not only "packed up and moved to the next town" but moved to the next country. He has "burned all his bridges" with his ex-wife, turning in for a new model, instead of "dealing with everything square in the face" of Shonnah Bentley, his first wife.
How can you teach someone to stand and deal with their problems when they have just run away from most of them? What is preventing Todd Bentley from packing up and giving up on Mr. Joyner's restoration process when by implication, spending the past few months running from everything that is painful to deal with is quite all right?
Did Mr. Joyner even try to persuade Mr. Bentley to stay with his wife and kids and stay in Canada?
5. An offhand remark of Mr. Bentley's at the 8:55 mark will raise some eyebrows:
"There's so much that I've learned on all this. There's triumph. There's tragedy. And, you know, there'll be a message. Ther'll be a whole series of messages...."
Tragedy I can understand. Triumph? The only triumph that there would be is Christ somehow cleaning up the pig's breakfast that the evangelist has made, but the "restoration process" has only just started. Rather, are we seeing a "triumph of the will" specifically Todd Bentley's will? He got the wife he wanted. He got the parenting situation that worked best for him. He got a very sympathetic mentor to counsel him. He has a lot that he wants, and that might not be good for him.
Watching this video may bring a sense that Mr. Bentley is not being asked to be serious about his mistakes. This is an unease that is shared, according to Cary McMullen of the Lakeland Ledger newspaper, who has done a lot of great reporting on Mr. Bentley's revival and its aftermath. In a post on the reaction to the plans to restore Mr. Bentley in "Pentecostal circles", McMullen notes that many seem to fear that "this is just further evidence that Bentley and his supporters are frauds".
Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner have their work cut out for them. If they are truly wanting to do the right thing, there is a lot of scepticism to deal with. Well-founded scepticism, I am afraid.
Posted by Rick Hiebert on March 14, 2009 in Religion | Permalink
Comments
Thank you for the link.
Does anyone know how many times Mr. Bentley has been in rehab?
One thing the charismatic media subscriber base appears to be glaringly missing over at the print end of the business (Charisma/Strang)is that Mr. Grady is the editor of the magazine in which an advertiser (Joyner) takes a serious shot at him.
As you point out, not at all out of character for Joyner and certainly consistant with his Joels Army belief and apostle/daddy status.
Second supposed shot at the seemingly hapless editor Grady this week. Strader supposedly being the first advertiser to go after the editor as McMullen points out and you reiterate.
The charismatic media being the drama as much as reporting it.
It's possible Mr. Joyner's shot to Mr. Grady's jaw went into the digital edition without Mr. Grady's approval.
Possible but highly improbable.
What's a bit of verbal abuse and veiled threats among friends? Bentley can knee stage 4 cancer survivors in his healing services, why can't his handler/restorer and encircling media abuse each other?
Charisma magazine loses nothing, not it's subscriber base, nothing.
They provide feedback, the public market loop Joyner can't afford to deal with while re-packaging a volitile property like Bentley.
Are sideshows for fans used to high drama a surprise?
This is a very high needs consumer group.
Mr. Joyner as owner of another kind of media doesnt have the same luxury as his print cousins.
Both media outlets are adjusting to new variables,(public input and reaction they can't control and genuinely don't appear to have anticipated) and each have potentially different outcomes.
The job is to give spiritualized consumers what they want, and if they don't want it enough, convince them they do.
Is it a harder sell this time around?
Putting up a Joyner rebuttal to fellow media isn't any different than putting up a political opinion rebuttual when you look at the supposed restoration from a business stand point.
It appears another clever and choreographed cross use of media platforms.
I think as media owners and editors demand their core base take sides, their eye remains on their own long term bottom line.
Bentley is coming back, perhaps less now on his terms than even a few weeks ago.
Joyner verbally abuses Gray while seamlessly plugging his Bentley vid-blogs right in the middle of his written rant. Clever.
Bentley has to behave meekly for now if he wants back in.
The fans will pay for the entertainment.
How much is Strang Communications worth? MorningStar?
As non-profit media businesses/ministries, can they afford subscribers or believers asking about their bottom line?
Bentley isn't able to field questions about the wife and kids, the new wife, the visa, the money...
Let's not forget it was Charisma and Grady who plugged Bentley years ago.
Joyner does have his work cut out re-packaging and re-selling Bentley. The body language of both is grasping to say the least. They'll both have to work on that, won't they?
Why hasn't Bentley ministered in his home town area (Abbotsford) Vancouver for the past five years?
Posted by: Bene Diction | 2009-03-14 8:06:37 PM
In 2008, Todd Bentley left the Lakeland revival in controversy, disgrace, and sin. Since then, I have publicly maintained that he needed to repent, be born again, and surround himself with solid, Bible-based Christians for council.
I also maintained that if Bentley is groomed, mentored, and "restored" by those who groomed and mentored him in the first place, he will end up in worst shape than ever before.
After all, it stands to reason that a drug addict cannot receive anti-drug council and restoration from a drug pusher, nor can a heretic receive solid, Bible-based council and restoration from a team of heretics.
Indeed, heretics mentoring a heretic is a one-way walk down a dark alley.
Regarding Lee Grady and his groaning over the recent news about Rick Joyner and Todd Bentley's so-called restoration, it was in August 2005 when Grady and Charisma magazine introduced the article, "30 Emerging Voices" within the Charismatic movement to the world. While the article appears to have disappeared from Charisma's website, after his big build-up, Grady's introduction concluded with his belief that "...the church has never seen a more gifted group of men and women step forward to carry the torch into the future."
In light of the gifted men and women of the Old and New Testaments, who sacrificed everything, even their very lives for the coming Messiah and the cause of Christ, those were brassy words on Lee Grady's part. Has there ever been a time when God considered heretics and false prophets "gifted" with the ability to carry the Christian torch?
Gifted men and women of God strive to lead holy lives and teach sound, Bible-based doctrine. They set good examples for others to follow--including the younger generation.
Gifted men and women of God do not suddenly disappear in controversy, disgrace, and sin, then suddenly return months later in more controversy, disgrace, and sin.
Nonetheless, sliding in at #13 on the Grady/Charisma list of "30 Emerging Voices" was none other than Todd Bentley (article on file).
Granted, Lee Grady didn't know in 2005 that in 2008 the Lakeland revival would be headed up by Todd Bentley, nor did Grady know the revival would result in an ungodly array of carnival-like side-show antics, false teachings, false prophecies, and false healings.
But you better believe that Grady knows it now, and it should be a lesson carved in stone that he and the hyper-Charismatic movement should seriously consider.
Keep in mind that Lee Grady is listed as an "apostle" with C. Peter Wagner's International Coalition of Apostles (ICA), which boasts a worldwide membership of "nearly 500." Grady's membership places him in fellowship with "apostles" and false teachers such as Ché Ahn, James Goll, Bill Hamon, Cindy Jacobs, Chuck Pierce, Stephen Strader, Dutch Sheets, Stephen Strader and, the founder of Charisma magazine, Stephen Strang.
Unfortunately, these people were part of the problem, not the solution.
As a reminder, C. Peter Wagner was the Master-Disaster of Ceremonies for the Todd Bentley "Commissioning" fiasco, where a handful of Wagner-appointed apostles and apostle-ettes delivered "prophesies" over Bentley, as he giggled and wiggled on the stage-floor like a baby in a crib. As it turned out, the prophecies bloated Bentley's pride, gained ooh's and ahh's from the non-discerning, and failed miserably.
Along with Todd Bentley's ungodly claims and actions, there were serious doctrinal errors that were addressed and exposed by those of us within the apologetics camp. Yet, Lee Grady referred to us as "Pharisees" and "mean-spirited heresy hunters."
Indeed, discerning Christians need not hunt heresy, for heresy reaches out with a toothless grin and slaps them in the face, and dares them to do something about it.
Here it is 2009. History is repeating itself. Lee Grady's words have returned to haunt him. I find it ironic that Grady speaks out against those within the Charismatic camp, but Katie bar the door if those outside the camp do the same.
I am not one to say, "I told you so," but both Lee Grady and Stephen Strang attended the Lakeland revival and, no doubt had ample opportunity to talk to Todd Bentley. Had Grady and Strang listened to and read the warnings from the watchmen on the wall, they may not be continuously haunted with the serious issues at hand.
Furthermore, had Lee Grady and Stephen Strang possessed the ability to discern truth from error, perhaps they both would have groaned years ago, as opposed to now when the movement they are a part of crumbles in the sand right before their very eyes.
As one among many who has researched Todd Bentley's claims and teachings, this current fiasco is just the tip of the iceberg, and a natural consequence to a hyper-Charismatic movement gone wild and out of control. In many cases, sin is just a mere "mistake" that can be handled by playing the Wiser than God game, then filtered down though the Department of Compromise and Excuses. Eventually, after all the dust has settled, sin in the camp ends up in a mound of paperwork on the desk of Mr. I. Could Care Less. From there, it ends up in "File 13" (trash can), never to be discussed again.
And they get away with it because they have spent years conditioning and deceiving and intimidating their followers into believing in their self-appointed apostles, prophets, and teachers over-and-above God's written word, the Bible.
But their time of deception hasn't gone unnoticed. God's righteous judgement is already at work. They, like others before them, will fall: "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap" (Galatians 6:7).
There is an old saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Todd Bentley made choices. His actions will return to haunt him and those surrounding him. In the meantime, God warns those who continue to be fooled that: "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD" (Proverbs 17:15).
Right now, as emphasis is placed on Todd Bentley's "restoration" and welfare, many who once adored and followed him are hurt and confused. It is they--the innocent and unwary--who are the real victims.
In conclusion, please remember in your prayers the innocent and unwary who are being deceived by the false prophets and false teachers of our day. Pray that God will be merciful and open their eyes and ears to the truth, and draw them away from the counterfeits and into the loving arms of Jesus Christ, according to His perfect will.
And as you pray, remember Shonnah and her three precious children.
Sincerely in Christ,
Bud Press, Director
Christian Research Service
http://www.christianresearchservice.com
Jude 3
Posted by: Bud Press | 2009-03-14 11:21:07 PM
Bud:
"Keep in mind that Lee Grady is listed as an "apostle" with C. Peter Wagner's International Coalition of Apostles (ICA), which boasts a worldwide membership of "nearly 500."
Is Mr. Grady currently listed with the ICA?
Australia
CETF #46 (Nov/Dec 2008).
The Judgement was Set and the books were opened
by Philip L. Powell
Footnote 44:
I sent an earlier draft of this article to Stephen Strang and Lee Grady. Lee responded as follows and gave me permission to quote him:
“I have chosen not to renew my membership in ICA for several personal reasons. But I have not severed my personal relationship with
these people. I am still in close fellowship with many of them. In fact many of them are very close friends.
I love them and I will not end my relationship with them just because I disagreed with the way the Lakeland Revival was handled. The ICA is a diverse group of leaders who have differing views on a lot of topics, so it is unfair to say that all of them agreed on Lakeland.”
Posted by: Bene Diction | 2009-03-15 5:04:19 PM
BD:
Thank you for sharing the update. It has been awhile since I checked the ICA membership list.
( http://www.apostlesnet.net/pdf/ICA-Short-Directory.pdf ). Lee Grady's name does not appear on the list.
However, as of today, the following appears on Lee Grady's "the mordecai project" website at http://themordecaiproject.com/links/links_2.php :
Global Harvest Ministries
Lee has benefited greatly in recent years from his association with Dr. C. Peter Wagner, founder of Global Harvest Ministries and one of the greatest strategic thinkers involved in church leadership today. Lee is a member of the International Coalition of Apostles, an organization Dr. Wagner founded. On the Global Harvest site you will find a wealth of material on church growth, apostolic and prophetic leadership and women in ministry. The site also provides access to The Arsenal Bookstore, an excellent online resource. www.globalharvest.org
Certainly, this isn't to suggest foul-play on Grady's part. It may be a simple oversight.
Nevertheless, I will make the necessary adjustments to reflect this new information.
God bless,
Bud
Posted by: Bud Press | 2009-03-15 6:07:37 PM
It's finally occurring to watchers that Rick Joyner may not have intended his er, guest response, er, column at Charisma Magazine to become er, a public um, response, er, column.
Posted by: Bene Diction | 2009-03-15 8:23:43 PM
Three religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islamism, joined in only one voice. The God's voice at internet: www.overbo.uni5.net
Zac. 4.6-10
Tres religioes: Judaismo, Cristianismo e Islam, unidas em uma só voz. A voz de Deuz na internet: www.overbo.uni5.net
Zac. 4.6-10
Tres religiones: Judaísmo, Cristianismo e Islam, unidas en una sola voz. La voz de Dios en internet:
www.overbo.uni5.net
Zac. 4.6-10
Posted by: Eli'jah | 2009-03-15 10:17:22 PM
Eli'jah:
Jesus said: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6).
Jesus also said: "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25-26)
Jesus Christ is God Himself in human form, second Person of the Trinty. He is exclusive to all man-made messiahs and saviors.
The God of the Bible consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God- three Persons. God is exclusive to every man-made "god."
Christianity was founded by Jesus Christ, and is exclusive to all man-made religions and belief systems.
The unsaved are now dead in sin and destined for eternal judgement: "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
However, "...if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation" (Romans 10-9-10).
In Christian love,
Bud Press
Posted by: Bud Press | 2009-03-15 10:52:35 PM
Although I know next to nothing about the Charismatic/Evangelical movement in North America, I would like to extend a hearty thank you to the posters of this thread for commentary that is fascinating reading -- and very well written... It's gripping, and I don't even have a clue who all these people are. Great Stuff. I love learning about new things.
Posted by: MW | 2009-03-15 11:14:47 PM
People like Bentley and Joyner represent the worst in American evangelicalism. What they do is nothing other than self-serving show biz. But hey, people get what they deserve. Bentley and Joyner and their ilk are a suitable judgment upon superficial evangelicals who are more into entertainment than they are into the Word. A wrong hermeneutic leads to self-styled apostles and prophets with inflated egos and eyes full of lust. Sick. Sad. But a suitable judgment.
Posted by: Ras | 2009-03-16 1:38:19 AM
God's word tells us that there are four things the earth cannot bear...and the fourth is
Proverbs 30:23 (KJV)
... and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.
the Message bible says these four things are intolerable and states the fourth like this... "when a girlfriend replaces a faithful wife."
The matter of judging others in scripture is a matter of judging a persons eternal destiny/salvation. This is forbidden, however there is a place for proper judgment/discernment in the body of Christ
1 Cor. 2:15 (KJV)
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,
We who are leaders in our local fellowships have a responsibility to protect His sheep from people like the Bentleys and Joyners of the world. That is the unsavory side of leadership at any level, but it is necessary. We don't judge their eternal destiny, but we are required to judge the spirit of the matter.
The spirit of the matter is...if God's word says that it is intolerable for a girlfriend to replace a faithful wife, why is this behavior not intolerble to Joyner, Johnson and the masses of gullible followers of said group?
Al
Posted by: Al | 2009-03-16 2:57:21 PM
Sorry to the moderator of this site...I misspelled my email address in previous post. It is now corrected.
Al
Posted by: Al | 2009-03-16 3:03:33 PM
The standard of God's word tells us there are four things the earth cannot bear, and the fourth is...
Proverbs 30:23 (KJV)
; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.
The Message bible says these four things are intolerable and states the fourth like this... "a girlfriend that replaces a faithful wife".
As leaders in our local fellowships we have the responsibility of protecting His sheep from the Bentleys and Joyners of the world (see Acts 20:28-31). This is sometimes the unsavory side of leadership, but necessary for the health of the body of Chirst.
All those "thou shalt not judge" shots fired at the watchmen hold no weight. We are forbidden to pass judgment on the eternal destiny of anothers soul, but we are obligated to judge the spirit of matters in the Church.
1 Cor. 2:15 (KJV)
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,
The spirit of this matter is that since God says it is intolerable for a girlfriend to replace a faithful wife, why is it not intolerabe to Bentley, Joyner and the masses of gullible people who follow them?
Answer: Because they are not shepherded by heart of the Great Shepherd but hirelings.
Al
Posted by: Al | 2009-03-16 3:29:30 PM
Bene D...
To clarify for you...Todd frequently ministered at his home base in Abbotsford, but Vancouver specifically? No. As far as I know, the last time that he personally ministered in Vancouver was over five years ago. (I make a distinction here. About two or three years ago, Fresh Fire did hold a series of meetings at Glad Tidings Church in Vancouver, but this was during Bentley's earlier sabbatical. He didn't minister at all, and each person ministering from the front took pains to briefly explain that Bentley wasn't there and why. I doubt that he even attended, as I was at each meeting and I did not see him.)
Posted by: Rick Hiebert | 2009-03-16 4:07:47 PM
People: It would be a gross exaggeration to even imply that Rick Joyner, a discredited prophet, could mentor the sinner Todd Bentley. T. Bentley
engaged in known sin when he committed adultery and left his wife. His doctrines are outrageous and are not Bible based but yet he wants back into the money making fold of charismatics! Rick Joyner is not able to mentor anyone and Todd Bentley is a heretic who is not contrite over his multitude of sins. The real Body of Christ needs to run from the Rick Joyners of the world and certainly flee from the T. Bentleys of the world.
Both are certified losers who continue to be in rebellion against Jesus Christ with their abberrant doctrines and loose life styles. R. Joyner and T. Bentley add NOTHING to the glory of God or to the edification of the Body of Christ.
Nothing. Unless they repent and submit to the leadership of Jesus, they are wandering and waterless clouds.
Posted by: Lafe | 2009-03-18 1:51:01 PM
Rick Joyner has released a video stating he was not aware his statement would go up at Charisma, he thought it was a private email to Charisma editor J. Lee Grady.
Joyner praises him then rips him apart, using the NAR playbook 'self-righteous, stumbling block' theme, he used the 'Satan theme' again too.
And by the way Mr. Hiebert, Mr. Joyner doesn't think journalists are to have authority in the church.;^)
Posted by: Bene D | 2009-03-19 4:27:59 PM
"And by the way Mr. Hiebert, Mr. Joyner doesn't think journalists are to have authority in the church.;^)"
I'm quite content to be the fellow in the circus who trundles along with a broom and a garbage can on wheels to clean up after the elephants in the parade. :)
Posted by: Rick Hiebert | 2009-03-19 4:34:47 PM
From what I have read from other sites and from listening to You Tube videos, it seems that those who backed Todd Bentley (before it was leaked that Todd was having an inappropriate relationship with an intern) knew that he was having an inappropriate relationship with an intern. It appears that they knew. Diabolical if true.
Why then is there no "restoration" process for those who backed Todd Bentley? Would they not need spiritual restoration for promoting and backing a man, who, while in the pulpit, was having an unhealthy relationship with a woman not his wife? If they knew about what Todd was doing, then they were promoting a lie of a ministry and sin in the pulpit.
It would seem that those who backed Bentley need to be restored more than Todd needs it.
Posted by: Ray | 2009-05-21 3:14:52 PM
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