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Friday, August 01, 2008
Aid for tobacco farmers, fines for tobacco sellers
Federal Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz said today that “the Conservative government is committed to putting farmers first."
I guess that means that the Conservatives are committed to putting taxpayers second or worse.
Ritz announced at the Delhi Tobacco Exchange Auction that the Government of Canada is providing more than $300 million to Ontario’s flue-cured tobacco producers. $286 million of the $300 million will be used to help farmers “exit the tobacco industry.”
Diane Finley, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, who was also at the press conference, said that the new Tobacco Transition Program would help farmers find “new opportunities outside agriculture.”
Are voters to understand that the Conservative government puts farmers first by paying them not to farm? Let’s hope they don’t decide to help doctors next.
After spending millions to denormalize tobacco, the government is now spending millions to help the victims of federal anti-tobacco policies – and they want tobacco farmers to be grateful! Government is indeed a disease masquerading as it own cure.
But it gets worse in tobacco-related news this week.
Gordon O’Connor, Minister of National Revenue, announced yesterday that Federal and provincial governments reached a settlement with tobacco companies for their role in the smuggling of contraband tobacco in the early 1990s.
Imperial Tobacco and Rothmans, Benson & Hedges will be forced to pay $1.15 billion to the governments in fines and civil settlements for their role in the contraband tobacco market.
“[The] announcement sends a strong message that all governments are united in their determination to address the problems and challenges posed by the contraband tobacco market. Governments are taking action so that no one will profit from evading Canada’s tax laws,” said Minister O’Connor. No one accept the government, it would seem.
The problem, of course, is not contraband tobacco, but obscenely high tobacco taxes.
In his column “Support Native resistance,” the always brilliant Pierre Lemieux wrote:
Cigarettes manufactured and sold on Native reserves are priced as low as $6 per carton. This compares to more than $65 elsewhere in the country, the outrageous legal prices being due to federal and provincial taxes....
It is thanks to the Natives that five or ten per cent of the population can purchase affordable cigarettes and that the smokers of legal cigarettes are not taxed even more....the Natives are helping to satisfy...consumer demands.
Minister O’Connor, by contrast, is helping to fill government coffers on the backs of the smoking poor.
These days, it’s never good for the cause of liberty when tobacco is in news.
Posted by Matthew Johnston on August 1, 2008 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
More evidence that members of the CPC are morphing into what are commonly know as big government meddling assholes of the first order.
Alas, there is no one left to vote for.
Here is my message to the Conservative government.
We the people (who are willing, but no longer able to support you) want
lower taxes,
more free enterprise,
less social spending,
much smaller government.
Is that too much to ask?
If so ... Then don't ask me to vote for you.
Get out the face of businesses, farmers and the public at large. Can do things for ourselves and the market will decide if we are doing it right or wrong.
Posted by: John West | 2008-08-01 3:08:36 PM
Its the same old story...If it moves Tax it, If it keeps moving Regulate it, If it stops moving Subsidize it. The government likes any excuse to look busy and benevolent don't they?
Posted by: JC | 2008-08-01 4:05:21 PM
Now I know why I come to this site.
JC/John West: It's time you joined the party of liberty with the ideas this country was founded on. You can vote for the fake conservatives or real freedom.
Posted by: Opinion | 2008-08-01 4:15:06 PM
Now these are issues conservatives ought to be addressing, not defending drug dealers.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-08-01 4:16:51 PM
Sorry ZP, the Conservatives only issue is is to convince suckers that they are conservatives. Most people see through the facade.
Posted by: Opinion | 2008-08-01 4:30:43 PM
See through it or not, there's no alternative. The Liebral/Dipper/Green party offers nothing but genuine misery.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-08-01 4:52:59 PM
Opinion,
Tell me tell me ... who are you referring to?
Posted by: John West | 2008-08-01 5:08:06 PM
John: I refer to the libertarians.
ZP: I agree, but don't be cheeky. You know about the libertarians.
So, do you want a variation of the socialist party or do you want a free, vibrant society? That's a rhetorical question.
Posted by: Opinion | 2008-08-01 5:23:37 PM
Your question is moot. There is no libertarian alternative. They a fringe party more interested in defending drug dealers and Holocaust deniers? They'll never amount to anything. So like it or not you're stuck with Harper. Be grateful! It could be a lot worse.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-08-01 5:27:26 PM
Holy, ZP: You're as smart as a bag of hammers. We've already pointed out that Marc Emery has harmed no one. We've pointed out that Harper has grown the gov't faster than Chretien. We've pointed out that Harper has stuck a knife into the oil patch. Yet, your empty skull can't grasp reality. You can only obey orders. You should be embarrassed.
The Reform party was once a fringe party.
Posted by: Opinion | 2008-08-01 5:50:04 PM
Agreed JW and JC.
There is a saying concerning a man owning two cows. Under communism, the government confiscates both cows and sells him back some of the milk. Under socialism, the government takes one of his cows to give to his neighbour. Under conservatism, the man gets to sell one cow and buy a bull.
Guess which one defines the behaviour of our present government.
Posted by: Alain | 2008-08-01 5:54:52 PM
"We've already pointed out that Marc Emery has harmed no one."
Debatable. As far as the law is concerned, he's a criminal, so he has harmed society. If someday society wishes to accept his actions, then okay. Until then, he's a public menace at worst, and a nuisance at best.
"We've pointed out that Harper has grown the gov't faster than Chretien."
Is that a bad thing? Governments have been growing steadily since 1900. The question ought to be is that growth unjustifiable.
"We've pointed out that Harper has stuck a knife into the oil patch."
The oil patch is an important part of the Alberta economy, but it should not be treated like a sacred cow. Maybe they should start contributing more to conservation.
Attacking one's intelligence is a sign of weakness. They used to call Lincoln a country bumpkin, yet he humbled everyone with his intelligence.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-08-01 6:02:43 PM
"The oil patch is an important part of the Alberta economy, but it should not be treated like a sacred cow. Maybe they should start contributing more to conservation."
Congradulations ZP you meet the qualifications of a true socialist and not a conservative.
Posted by: Alain | 2008-08-01 6:18:02 PM
No, a socialist would seize their profits and nationalize them. I lived through the one attempt to do that - the NEP. Never again.
If it wasn't for an expanded role for government in society, a lot of what we take for granted would not exist. Private enterprise would not have provided for things like roads, sanitation, city planning, schools or universities, or medical care, or labor practices, or police and fire services, etc, without demands for profits. We're better off with more active government than without it.
Yet there are times when gov't goes to excesses - like subsidizing unprofitable industries. This is the area you ought to focus your attention, not defending drug dealers and Holocaust deniers.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-08-01 6:35:40 PM
Oh no, Zebulon! I really did think you were a conservative...
But, okay, you're not a small government conservative. I'm aware that there is a nascent group of big government conservatives out there. Rush Limbaugh pointed to a three-legged stool (fiscal conservatism, social conservatism, foreign policy conservatism), and if you have two of three (social conservatism and foreign policy conservatism) I guess you can still call yourself a conservative. I just have trouble thinking that it's okay to abandon the small government, fiscal conservative heritage and tradition of conservatism.
Posted by: P.M. Jaworski | 2008-08-01 7:18:55 PM
Jaws: two out of three ain't bad.
Consider the Liebral Party - they have nothing. The NDP has less than nothing. The Greens barely exist. So it's all good.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-08-01 7:24:10 PM
Zeb, you've been away from Alberta too long. The oil patch contributes more to conservation and the environment than all other industries combined. The environmental movement would never have grown this strong without funding from oil companies.
I don't really understand why tobacco farmers need help. There's still plenty of demand for the product, and there are fewer tobacco growers. Trying to put them out of business makes no sense until the last smoker butts out for the last time. Until then it's a legal product with plenty of demand.
Posted by: dp | 2008-08-01 8:33:22 PM
You must be doing this in Jest, ZP. Either that or you're retarded.
1. "Debatable. As far as the law is concerned, he's a criminal, so he has harmed society."
Does that mean you view Ezra Levant as a criminal? The HRC thinks he's a law breaker. Who, specifically has Marc Emery hurt?
2. We've pointed out that Harper has grown the gov't faster than Chretien.
"Is that a bad thing? Governments have been growing steadily since 1900. The question ought to be is that growth unjustifiable."
Of course it's a bad thing. None of it is justifiable. We pay 60% taxes if you include Payroll, GST and forced fees. And you think the gov't should grow? Whew
3. We've pointed out that Harper has stuck a knife into the oil patch.
"The oil patch is an important part of the Alberta economy, but it should not be treated like a sacred cow. Maybe they should start contributing more to conservation."
Another economically challenged fake conservative. This is waaaay over your head.
4. "No, a socialist would seize their profits and nationalize them. I lived through the one attempt to do that - the NEP. Never again."
And what do think Harper/Stelmach are doing? They're seizing the profits. Duh, never again, unless Harper does it.
Posted by: Opinion | 2008-08-01 9:19:35 PM
PMJ, this is why labels are so often abused, confusing and misused. Far too many have been so brainwashed and indoctrinated by collectivist welfare state propaganda, that they fail to see how they misappropriate the term conservative. They still cling to the myth of government (big government especially) being good for the people and sincerely caring about their welfare, that business must be regulated for the collective good along with other misconceptions. Of course this explains why we have red Tories and their equivalent south of the border.
It still boggles the mind when one considers the proof that communism/socialism always spell the end of economic success, the only difference being that one kills the economy faster than the other. Democratic capitalism is the only success and yet in the West it is slowly being killed by socialism.
Posted by: Alain | 2008-08-01 9:22:38 PM
Opinion, way ahead of you. I'm already in.
The fact is socialists and fascists are a cancer on freedom. When governments make themselves partner (regulator) and banker to business, we have fascism. When governments take (steal) from one to give to another, we have socialism. (theft)
I want no part of either. Libertarianism is as much a life philosophy as a political movement and my conscience simply doesn't allow for theft and extortion. Its criminal no matter who is doing it.
Posted by: JC | 2008-08-01 10:16:11 PM
>>Your question is moot. There is no libertarian alternative. They a fringe party more interested in defending drug dealers and Holocaust deniers? They'll never amount to anything. So like it or not you're stuck with Harper. Be grateful! It could be a lot worse.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 1-Aug-08 5:27:26 PM<<
Fringe parties can become important if mainstream parties drive away enough principled "willing but unable" supporters. Just ask John McCain.
Posted by: Janet | 2008-08-02 8:20:56 PM
Good Lord, Zeb if you were any more narrow minded...
Libertarians are about "Freedom" and "Individual Responsibility". Look it up, its an interesting concept.
Posted by: JC | 2008-08-02 9:34:29 PM
This just in from a friend in Ottawa.
More Smoke and Mirrors
So the fed's are giving tobacco farmers 300 million to get out of growing tobacco this is good news I supposed if your a tobacco farmer. But let's read between the lines shall we. First off the only reason they are getting any money is solely for one reason and that is Imperial Tobacco and Rothmans Benson & Hedges were hit with a billion dollar fine for their involvement in cross border cigarette smuggling going back to the 1990's. If the fed's had lost that court case the farmers would still be swinging in the wind and no one would give a damn. As the farmers say they need a billion dollars why not give them all the money from the court case? After all this would cost the taxpayers nothing as the fine would cover the whole shebang.
As to the stressful time tobacco families have endured who caused it? Why the government of Dalton McGuinty caused it by continuously increasing the rules and regulations so that they all had to keep upgrading their equipment just to stay with in the law to operate. Some of them spending tens of thousands of dollars they really didn't have and being driven more and more into debt with Dalton's gang sticking it to them more and more. Some of those farmers were so stressed out by the actions of the Ontario government their families had them on suicide watches. So the stress they have endured for years was actually at the hands of both governments who now paint themselves out as saviours when their foot dragging was the main culprit. The cost of producing this product got to the point where they in actual fact haven't made any money in years and have been after a buyout to go into other lines of farming.
Another point made is that demand has dropped to the point where farmers might produce 20 million pounds this year down from 85 million pounds in 2005. But has the demand actually dropped. A recent letter to the Ottawa Citizen had a group of people saying they had collected almost 12 thousand cigarette butts and fully a quarter of them were contraband cigarettes. Along with that a Quickie store in Ottawa recently closed with the owner stating in 2005 they were selling 120 cartons a month and that had dropped to 55 by the time they decided to close the store. There are, or were, 2 more stores they were contemplating closing paying a fine to get out of their lease earlier for the same reason. This was passed off by some people in the media as people quitting smoking in droves. What the empirical evidence now points to is that smokers have decide to buy their cigarettes from other sources and not give their money to a provincial government that paid for a campaign on TV that said they smell like crap.
But all in all this is just more smoke and mirrors on the part of the government's, both provincial and federal, to make it look like they are doing something to really stop people from smoking. Is there any mention of stopping the importation of tobacco products from outside Canada - in a word no. This picture above points out there must be a demand for flue cured tobacco to a degree that they are importing it from Virginia. So the governments still get their tax money but any profits are going to farmers and businesses outside Canada. Does anyone really think they are going to cut off the source of almost 10 billion dollars in tobacco taxes with the McGuinty government promising every special interest group going more and more of the taxpayers money?. Are they going to take the bull by the horns and make it illegal to sell tobacco? Again not likely as far as I can see.
While I am happy to see the farmers getting something for all the stress they have endured let us not fool ourselves, or let the governments fool us, into believing that they are going to stop the importation of tobacco or change it to being labelled an illegal product in the near future. Of course if it does become an illegal product the Ontario government just might contemplate giving smokers a place where they can get their fix. Hell they might even have the taxpayers pay for their cigarettes which I'm sure would go over really well with the electorate after all they give needles to crack cocaine addicts to help them kill themselves. Funny how we are supposed to have sympathy for crack heads but people who enjoy tobacco products can be vilified by the very governments that sell it, profit from it, and allow it's continued importation. What a strange country I live in now.
Andrew in Ottawa
Posted by: JC | 2008-08-03 10:36:21 PM
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