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Monday, June 09, 2008

Harper's phony apology

You know it's funny, I don't remember giving Prime Minister Stephen Harper permission to issue an apology on my behalf.

Yet it seems that's just what he is going to do on Wednesday in the House of Commons, issue an apology for past residential school abuses on behalf of all Canadians, including me.

Well, sorry Stephen, when it comes to residential schools I have nothing to apologize for.

I didn't run, own or teach at a residential school, nor did I abuse any students in these schools. Mainly that's because all that stuff took place about 100 years before I was born!

Of course, some will argue there is such a thing as collective, historic guilt. In other words, I should feel guilty or remorseful for the alleged misdeeds of my ancestors.

But I don't.

Just as I am sure modern day Italians don't feel remorseful or guilty about the fact that two thousand years ago their Roman ancestors fed Christians to the lions.

You see, as a conservative/libertarian I believe in personal responsibility. I am responsible for my own actions; not for the actions of others, especially if those others lived a hundred years ago.

That's not to say, politicians should never apologize.

In fact, I think there are lots of things politicians should be sorry for:

* They should regret not reforming our socialist health care system.

* They should apologize for taking nearly half of what Canadians earn in the form of taxes and using that money to finance an ever expanding and bloated government.

* They should rue the fact that their main concern is giving themselves super-rich pensions and big pay increases.

Will they ever apologize for any of this?

Nope.

Prime Minister Harper would rather offer insincere, phony baloney apologies designed to pander to Canada's left-wing set -- the same people who believe the Western world is responsible for everything that's bad in this world from global warming, to racism to erectile dysfunction.

And no doubt, this crowd will applaud Harper for his apology stunt. Some groups may even issue news releases praising him.

But when election day comes around, not one of them will vote for him.

Meanwhile true conservatives, seeing how Harper is slowly evolving into a politically correct, big government statist might just start to abandon his party.

And if that happens, Harper could lose the next election.

Then he would truly be sorry.

Yes I know this blog posting is really just a rant.

And for that I apologize.

Posted by Gerry Nicholls on June 9, 2008 | Permalink

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Comments

Gee, Gerry, why tell us about it? I mean, if you REALLY feel that strongly about it, why not write a personal letter to Granny Wabano, Phil Fontaine, and others who went to those schools and let them know that Harper does not speak for you? I'll even help. Here is a draft of a letter you can use for Wabano:


Dear "Granny" Wabano,

Firstly, just to be clear, you are not my grandmother and you should not read any claim to kinship into my use of your name. I believe that most people who call you "granny" are also unrelated to you. Secondly, I want you to know I am not sorry for any of the pain and suffering that you may have been caused by your time in residential schools. (I say "may have been caused" because I was not there so I have to take your word for it that you were harmed. I personally really cannot be sure you were a victim at all.) If anyone - including our Prime Minister - tries to tell you I am sorry, its a lie.

Sincerely,

Gerry

Posted by: Fact Check | 2008-06-09 2:12:40 PM


Remember Mulroney's apology of the month routine?

I say let him apologize til he's red in the face (pun intended). Maybe they'll accept it and not demand more cash.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-09 2:21:35 PM


Once again we believe we can judge the past based on our oh so sensitive PC claptrap of to-day. How disgusting!

First it is not a given that all residential schools were bad nor that every child sent there was a victim. Yes, there have been many who have successfully milked this for all it is worth - for cash of course. People seem to recognise a good cash cow when they see one, so one cannot blame them for trying. It is just too bad that everyone who suffered from their school days (that they were forced to attend) in one form or another cannot get the same amount of attention and compensation.

Posted by: Alain | 2008-06-09 2:34:59 PM


"I believe that most people who call you "granny" are also unrelated to you."

It is my understanding that on reserves and perhaps beyond, no one is really sure who is related to whom.

Further, the only people who need to apologized to any of Indians who were abused, are the abusers themselves. I believer that would be the clergy of several church denominations.

I, my family and absolutely everyone I am associated with would not have done such things and wouldn't condone it if they know it was going on at the time.

We have nothing to apologize for to anyone. There are countless people in our society who have been done wrong in many ways, who should apologized to them?

A governmental body, like a corporate body is not a thinking feeling entity, it is an entity of tasks and record keeping. It cannot apologized for doing wrong since it has no ability to know what is the right an wrong thing to do.

Harper is attempting to speak on behalf of Canadians and assigning the guilt of a handful of warped clergy and their minions for some past wrongs.

I am not guilty of any of it and I demand an apology for assigning that blame to me.

I will add that I think it's time Indians got up off their knees and got themselves a life of their own.

Posted by: John West | 2008-06-09 3:50:10 PM


"And no doubt, this crowd will applaud Harper for his apology stunt."

Not even.

'Just saw Libby-who-me-politicize-this?-Morris and Ralph-I'm-so-offended-Goodale on Don-I-don't-vote-Newman.

They're not impressed with PM Stephen Harper's government's apology. And, I have to admit, I'm not either.

I posted at SDA earlier today (Readers tips); I'm getting totally fed up with, first of all, the bogus charges--tarring and feathering ALL residential school teachers--and, then, the bogus tut-tuts and it's-all-the-white-man's-fault crap.

Most of the people who taught in the residential schools were not abusers. Some were, and they should have the book thrown at them.

Most of the Native Chiefs back in the sixties asked the government NOT to close down the residential schools because they knew their children needed to learn how to read, write, and speak English if they were to survive, let alone compete, in North American society--like this fact or not.

Most of the bleeding-heart lib-left are more than happy to use the Christian Church as a whipping boy for the tragedy of Canada's Native people, which is simply asinine. As I've pointed out elsewhere, it was the Church that was ASKED by the government over 100 years ago to furnish teachers for residential schools--not the corporate sector, not the government. No, it was altruistic Church people who were asked to teach in the government-sponsored residential schools for a pittance and under very difficult circumstances.

'Just goes to show that no deed goes unpunished.

In the meantime, our Native populations are still in crisis, over 40 years after residential schools were shut down.

So, who's to blame now? Who's to blame after this bogus apology?

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-09 3:58:43 PM


Having been here for thousands of years, one might think the natives would have done more than live in tents and scalp their enemies. I feel the modern day aboriginal is looking for as many handouts he is able to garner from the government. How many of them seek higher education? But for sure they know how to open businesses to sell untaxed liquor and cigarettes. Outside of the few that were able to work on high rise construction in the U.S.A., I have never met one that impresses me with his ambition. No I don't owe any of them an apology and I resent that my tax dollars (after all these years) are supporting these loafers. Harper should apologize to me for cancelling income trusts and thereby lowering my standard of living.

Posted by: Roslyn | 2008-06-09 6:06:26 PM


Too bad roslyn, your bad investments are not my problem either.

As an identifiable group it's hard to top senior citizens when it comes to whining and complaining. I've gone for years without hearing an Indian complain, but haven't gone more than a few days without hearing some perfectly healthy senior, driving a brand new Buick, and bitching that the senior discount wasn't applied to his bill at Denney's.

It wasn't always like this. When I was a kid seniors had actually accomplished something. I'm talking about WW1 vets, depression survivors, pioneers. They rarely complained. Today's seniors (that doesn't include me for at least 10 years) are some of the laziest, most coddled, least ambitious, most wasteful, and most ungrateful of any generation in the history of mankind. When the last WW2 vet passes on, that's when I lose the last trace of my respect for seniors.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-09 6:45:32 PM


dp,

I am a senior and I have never taken any hand out from government. I am still running my small one man business even though I would like to retire. I don't want to retire without enough money to last me for the duration. I don't want to need government help. I know several others in the same boat as me. We aren't complaining, we are working,saving and investing money in the private sector.

You must be listening to old asshole liberals who have always complained, not seniors who have the self-reliance values which most seniors still have at this time.

If you want to see whining seniors, wait about ten to fifteen years and you won't believe the bleating. In ten years when you (baby boomer) are one of them it will be more appropriate to have the opinion you have right now. Let's hope you show more class then the rest when that time comes.

Posted by: John V | 2008-06-09 9:02:58 PM


You should learn to count backward a little better JV. The seniors I'm referring to include a good number of baby boomers.

Don't worry, when I hit the "magic number" I'll still be running a business and supporting a bunch of young people. That's how the economy is supposed to work. This idea that everyone should roll over their RRSP's, buy a fifth wheel, and spend it all is destroying the fabric of our economy.

A few natives harassing the government is a miniscule inconvenience compared to 100's of millionaires cashing out and telling everyone they deserve respect for "building this country".

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-09 9:40:00 PM


Oh by the way JV, since you can see the future, can you tell me if oil prices are going to crash next year?

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-09 9:46:34 PM


when the baby boomers all hit 65, that's when i'll be pushing hard for euthanasia....after all, its their right to "die with dignity"; goodness knows, they pressed for just such a thing when their ailing parents started costing the boomers time and money.

i want to retch when I think of that pompous, self-serving, arrogant, irresponsible and selfish generation.

What a glut of assholes.

Posted by: bk | 2008-06-09 10:15:59 PM


Does no one know how to count backward any more? bk, Name five baby boomers who really piss you off.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-09 10:33:53 PM


Fact Check,

Heh. Nice work on the anti-apology letter.

Best,

Terrence

Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2008-06-09 11:39:52 PM


There are only 3 things I wish for our native brethern. Get a life. Get a job. Get out of my wallet. They want every amenity the white man has to offer but want their old way of life. I am sick and tired of begging for forgiveness for what happened in the past. Had nothing to do with me. This is 2008 not 1950.Government screwed up. They always screw up. Get over it.

Posted by: peterj | 2008-06-09 11:42:47 PM


I have no problem for the government, as an entity in itself, apologizing for any possible role. I do have a problem for a government that is apologizing on behalf of Canadians.

Also, If the apology is incorrectly worded, many aboriginals will justify their "victim" mindset and expect handouts from the government and fellow citizens. This seems like a precursor for more $$$$$. I also don't like how they refer to them as survivors. Residential schools were not euthanizing machines. It's absurd.

These days, aboriginals now enjoy many opportunities that pale face could only dream of. (Free schooling, grants, special rights, etc.)

After this, it's over. No more cash handouts. No more blame.

Posted by: Dylan | 2008-06-10 2:38:48 AM


Right on, Dylan: no more cash handouts, no more blame. THAT'S IT.

Natives in Canada have to move on and get a life of their own. They receive over $9-billion a year from the Canadian taxpayer, which apparently works out to about $300,000 per Native person. My family and I could live very nicely on that, thanks very much. As it is, we make a small fraction of that every year, with all four of us working--two kids at university have jobs to try to offset the high expenses incurred after tuition, text books, rent, and food are factored in. I believe Native Canadians get to go to university for free--well, not for free. On our dime--and that's in addition to the $9-billion.

What needs to be addressed is the corruption in the ranks of Native governance. Some chiefs are accountable, responsible, and visionary. Others use the money granted to their bands and reservations as fun-money, for trips to the Caribbean for their Councils and to purchase illegal contraband, which they sell for a profit.

Why are these issues not being addressed? Why, instead, are all Canadians being asked to apologize for a system so dysfunctional that far too many of its people are living lives of squalor: substandard health, sanitation, housing, education, etc. despite extravegant government largesse? And, remember, goverment largesse comes from the pockets of hard-working, non-Native Canadians.

When we wrap a whole population in cotton batten, as we are doing with Native Canadians--to supposedly be good to them because "life is tough" for them and to assuage our "White Man's guilt" (give me a break)--we ghettoize them twice. You only get ahead in this life by getting over whatever obstacles have been put in your way--or whatever obstacles you, yourself, have put in your own way--and by working hard. No amount of "poor me" ever advanced a person; that attitude is one that gets you stuck.

It's time for Native Canadians to face their demons and to stop blaming everyone else. It's time for the rest of us to stop subsidizing an often-dehumanizing lifestyle that never ends because the handouts never end. Independence is what's called for--and I don't mean self-government for Natives, because two laws in one jurisdiction never works. I'm talking about the independence that comes with working hard, being responsible and accountable, and not playing the blame game.

The blame game is a fool's game and it's a dead end.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 6:17:20 AM


who were the government/church to decide then or at any other time that we (white/european/american)are better than any other culture to the point that policy was made to suppress (and "suppress" is too mild really for the stories I have been told)the first nations? who are we now to judge that they are lazy or get up off their knees...why do we think that our way of life (both parents working, little if any quality time with family to pay for sh*t you don't need ) is so great that we want all to live this way? and FYI for those who shoot there mouths off without knowing...residential schools were in operation until the late 80's and ealry 90's. How would you have felt if someone showed up @ your house and offerred your child candy and then took them away from you for 10-15 years... I call that kidnapping...and as a parent can think of no worse thing that having your child taken from you..to find out what was done to them labelled as "education"...they were educated all right on the sickness of our culture. To those who say that SH should not apologize on your behalf....at least have some compassion and be greatful that at this time the government hasn't decided that you are not capable of rearing your own.

Posted by: maya | 2008-06-10 7:11:42 AM


Hey, Maya, where did you go to school. Your spell check doesn't seem to be working, FYI.

80% of Native chiefs asked the federal government, when it was proposed that the residential schools be closed down, NOT TO SHUT THEM DOWN. THEY WANTED THEIR CHILDREN EDUCATED IN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS****** FYI, Maya.

No one is talking "better" here, just plain common sense. Do you think it would be "better" for Natives to remain on reservations, in the forests, or on the tundra, hunting wild game, fishing, and putting out traplines while other North Americans were building cities, universities, hospitals, roads, bridges, etc., etc.?

Do you think Native Canadians should never have been educated in English, in order to have "equal opportunity" with everyone else in North America, whether of British, Polish, Ukrainian, French, Janpanese, Chinese, the list goes on, extraction? Why should Native Canadians be deprived of an education that would help them to "get ahead" in North American culture? No culture can remain isolated when surrounded by a majority of country wo/men with different lifestyles and values than theirs.

This idea that somehow Native culture is pristine and pure, left to itself, is a total myth. Before "the White Man" came, there was internecine warfare between Native tribes and some were wiped out by others. Some Native tribes made slaves of other Native tribes. When all of the resources in one region were exhausted, Native tribes moved on to other more fertile lands, which would be abandoned when those new resources had been depleted.

So, let's get real. This is 2008. No group of people can hang onto the myth that it's somehow possible to go back a few hundred years to a lifestyle that, if looked at closely, wasn't the pure-as-the-driven-snow fairytale we're being asked to believe.

Most of the employees of residential schools were NOT abusers. The churches were co-opted by the government--that's all Canadians--to educate Native Canadians in English. The Native Chiefs were largely in favour. Many Native children were abused in their own homes, by their own people. Many Native children, when given the chance, have said how grateful the are for their experiences in the residential schools and have shared that they were treated better by the staff than by the members of their own families and tribes.

That's the reality, Maya. Put your thinking cap on. Take a look at the state of most Native communities now, with $9-billion pumped into them every year by the Canadian government. If $9-billion a year can't raise the standard of living of Natives in Canada, there's got to be a deeper, underlying problem.

'All too easy to blame everyone else. So, go ahead. But it's not going to help Canada's Native people one little bit.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 7:59:27 AM


This is 2008. No group of people can hang onto the myth that it's somehow possible to go back a few hundred years to a lifestyle that, if looked at closely, wasn't the pure-as-the-driven-snow fairytale we're being asked to believe.
Posted by: batb | 10-Jun-08 7:59:27 AM

Muslims would like to go back to the stone-age and bring everybody else with them, at least the natives only want themselves returned to a state of "bliss".

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-06-10 8:44:54 AM


I think maybe that my take on things may have been misunderstood...The government admitting that it's policy of ethnic cleansing was wrong is the issue nothing more, nothing less and IMO that is a postive thing. Whether all canadians feel it is necessary is irrelevant. Just as the pope apologized for the actions of the priesthood. As many other countries and organizations should take responsibility for their wrong doings it is a step to ensure that such actions are not repeated. If you (batb) feel comfortable to judge others (Hey, Maya, where did you go to school. Your spell check doesn't seem to be working, FYI.)that is your ego/issue... your arrogance seems to imply that you would probably be an apt politician.

Posted by: maya | 2008-06-10 9:29:54 AM


Maya: The government admitting that it's policy of ethnic cleansing was wrong is the issue nothing more, nothing less and IMO that is a postive thing.

This admission is not where it stops, and never has been the end of the argument, in the many years the idea of an apology has been batted back and forth.

This apology is tied to financial "recompense" which goes on and on and on. How can a group of people apologize for OTHER people's sins? We apologize for our OWN misdemeanors, not others. You can't confess OTHER PEOPLE'S sins--something we all seem very good at--just OUR OWN.

Hey, if we want to take this argument to its logical conclusion, Native people should be demanding apologies from the French, British, Dutch, Portuguese governments for allowing their citizens to sail to the New World and establish settlements. Why would we stop at apologies from 100 years ago? Why not keep going back--and extracting financial recompense, while we're at it?

It's a fool's game and can come to no good.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 9:56:06 AM


The ignorance of the posters here is surpassed only by their greed. Your fear of Indigenous Peoples is entirely justified. Canada's economy is entirely dependent on resources from Indigenous land, taken without their consent and with no share of revenues to them. That was the purpose of the residential schools: To "take the land out of Indian hands". It was genocide for monetary benefit.

I see the spirit of that genocide is alive and well here at the Western Standard. The comments here provide the best explanation yet for how the genocide occurred! Your comments should be shown to all Canadians who don't understand how it happened, to see that those who would destroy Indigenous Peoples without remorse are still alive among us.

The rewards of aggression and hatred accrue only in this world. They have no value for the human soul. Shame on you all.

Posted by: granny | 2008-06-10 10:19:32 AM


The Indian industry (crawling with white pimps) thrives on guilt. You make the masses feel guilty for the logical consequences of Government's ownership and responsibility for a racially segregated collective addicted to entitlements and the industry thrives. PMSH has been sucked-in.

Posted by: John Chittick | 2008-06-10 10:32:39 AM


granny- Most of what you say is true, but it doesn't change anything. We all know Indians were brutalized, though some choose to pretend it didn't happen.

I don't have much use for apologies. They are usually insincere. An expression of regret, or an acknowledgement of a wrongdoing are more appropriate in most of these cases.

What Indians have lost can never be returned, so we've tried to substitute money and social programs. Residential schools were a means of forcing the Indian population to forget everything about their past. It was poorly executed, and impossible to accomplish so long as Indians continued to be isolated on reserves, and discriminated against in the workplace.

I'm all for acknowledging the wrongs of our past. Just don't expect anyone to give back what was taken. We (white Europians) designed the legal system, land ownership, mineral rights, the tax system. Nothing short of war is going to give Indians all they believe they deserve.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-10 10:58:00 AM


Grow up, granny, and take the blinkers off. The history of the world is: If you have the technology and know-how to build the boat, you usually do a little exploration and find yourself on another shore.

Native Canadians navigated Canada's wilderness waterways, themselves, and took land from other Native tribes (usually with a great deal of "aggression and hatred," not to mention violence)--if they had the technology and know-how to do it.

So, Europeans had no business arriving on the shores of North America? Europeans had no business exploring these lands, using their technology to trade and sell, to build cities, roads, sanitation systems, schools, universities, churches, etc.?

Take your argument up with the governments of France, England, Portugal, Spain, and Holland if you think their people shouldn't have sailed to these shores to begin new lives. It's the way of the world, granny. No one people has a monopoly on God's Good Earth.

Personal ingenuity, hard work, technological know-how, adventuresome spirits, usually win the day--and that's just the way things are. Shake your head, granny. Shake a leg. Get a life.

And keep the "aggression and hatred" accusations out of your opinions if you want anyone to take you seriously. BTW, the fact that Native peoples receive $9-billion/year from the Canadian government, I guess, is the "no share of revenues" and "the spirit of genocide" you're talking about, granny?

I'd appreciate it if you could you be more specific.

And, then, perhaps you could also comment on how Native governing Councils disperse these funds to improve the well-being of their own people, how these funds are used to raise the standard of Native people's health, sanitation, housing, and education, standards which are among the lowest in the country to the great detriment of too many Native Canadians.

If you want to talk "genocide," granny, a loaded word if there ever was one, you might want to look closely at the way Native leaders treat their own people. You might want to look at the contraband, which has become a commonplace of the economy of certain Native bands, and at the lifestyles of certain Native Chiefs--which are a far cry from the way their own people are living.

On the other hand, you might prefer to live in a dreamworld, where everyone else is to blame. That's your choice.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 11:07:38 AM


As I said, such ignorance. There is not one poster here who has any grasp at all of the rule of law in Canada.

1) The land we call Canada is land stolen by genocide. The purpose of the residential schools was genocide - to get them off the land, destroy their land rights, destroy them as Peoples by destroying the people and their communities.
2) It still is not legally Canadian soil, still legally stolen Indigenous land, according to the Constitution which recognized "existing Aboriginal and Treaty rights".
3) According to the Supreme Court, the Crown has a 'duty to consult' about ALL development on traditional Aboriginal land. Indigenous title holders are entitled to "a say in development and a share in revenues".

The apology could be the beginning of a Canada that does not depend on genocide to support its economy. One can only hope.

Posted by: granny | 2008-06-10 11:54:05 AM


>"The ignorance of the posters here is surpassed only by their greed.
Canada's economy is entirely dependent on resources from Indigenous land, taken without their consent and with no share of revenues to them. That was the purpose of the residential schools: To "take the land out of Indian hands".
granny | 10-Jun-08 10:19:32 AM

The ignorance is entirely your own, granny.

All of the Treaties with the Indians state that the Indians right to the land is extinguished.
The term "extinguished" is actually used.

Aboriginal rights contained in the treaties consists almost solely of the right to hunt, trap, and fish.

According to the Treaties, the resources are not the Indian's resources, although some bands in Alberta have been given access to oil and gas revenues from the resources on the reserves.

You should acquire:
The Treaties of Canada with the Indians of Manitoba and the North-West Territories
Including the Negotiations on Which They Were Based, and Other Information Relating Thereto
~Morris, Alexander, 1826-1889

Read it and grow wise.

Posted by: Speller | 2008-06-10 12:04:20 PM


Aboriginal rights cannot be extinguished. That is International Law, which Canada defies but nonetheless can be used to gain justice.

In recognition of this fact, the Supreme Court ruling applies to ALL traditional Indigenous land existing at the time of contact. Treaties are irrelevant. Canada and the provinces must legally consult with Indigenous Nations before approving any development on traditional land.

It is the theft of land and resources by Canada that is at the heart of the genocide of the residential schools, and the ongoing genocidal perspectives of posters here.


Posted by: granny | 2008-06-10 12:15:54 PM


"Genocide" (an offensive and emotionally loaded word) would have been the European settlers using their fire power--which they had--to annihilate North America's Native peoples (what the Nazis did to the Jewish people). They didn't do that. I'm sure there's a lot of blame on both sides about who owns what, but what gives Native peoples the "right" to demand that what was theirs hundreds of years ago--by whose law?--is "theirs" today? Were they able to defend this land? Effective defence seems to be fairly de rigeur when it comes to protecting a country's sovereignty.

You still haven't answered my questions, granny, vis a vis the governance of Native peoples--or the abuse thereof--by their own leaders, with $9-billion/year at their disposal to raise the standard of living of Canada's Aboriginals. What happened to all of that revenue, year after year?

International law? Canada is a sovereign country, with duly elected representatives who decide on the laws our citizens will live by--at least, that's the way it's been for hundreds of years, until the UN and it's "international laws" came along. Canada has no obligation to govern itself by international laws made up by unelected NGOs.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 12:44:41 PM


The onus, as Speller mentions above, is entirely on you, granny, to prove "the ignorance" of the posters here.

So far, you've utterly failed to convince me.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 12:48:52 PM


Granny,

Just so you know, not everyone here disagrees with you. I myself wrote an article here in support of the three points you made above:

http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/article.php?id=2726

In that piece, I note the importance of rule-of-law and some of the recent recent Supreme Court findings regarding Aboriginal title. I'd really like to know what you think of the piece.

Best regards,

Terrence Watson

Posted by: Terrence Watson | 2008-06-10 1:29:45 PM


It is the theft of land and resources by Canada that is at the heart of the genocide of the residential schools,
Posted by: granny | 10-Jun-08 12:15:54 PM

It's been proven conclusively by DNA testing that the "aboriginals" are in fact from Asia and are not native to NA. So the question that has to be asked is " who did those Asian's steal the land from"?

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-06-10 1:54:15 PM


One can only hope that the same rights attend to the indigenous people of Europe. Just as the Sioux, so are the English an indigenous people. Mass immigration of non-indigenous people into the English homeland is genocide.

Article 8
1. Indigenous peoples and individuals have the right not to be subjected to
forced assimilation or destruction of their culture.
2. States shall provide effective mechanisms for prevention of, and redress
for:
(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their
integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;
(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their
lands, territories or resources;
(c) Any form of forced population transfer which has the aim or effect of
violating or undermining any of their rights;
(d) Any form of forced assimilation or integration;
(e) Any form of propaganda designed to promote or incite racial or ethnic
discrimination directed against them.

Posted by: DJ | 2008-06-10 2:04:02 PM


I'm totally fed up with supporting Indians.
It's long past time we stopped signing Treaties and shut down the Reserve system. It's time they prove they have pride in themselves as individuals like the rest of us and get integrated into this society as productive, taxpaying citizens.
The behaviour of some factions of the Native population is a disgrace and serves to tarnish them all as a people. The damage is probably already beyond salvage.

The White man DEVELOPED this country and that development included education, health care and technology, without which the Indians would never even have survived to this day.

There were many things from the past that are regrettable, we cannot change that. Present day people cannot apologize for our forefathers deeds, it's just plain silly.

This apology could be the beginning of more demands, next it will be MORE money, the only balm that will cure their hurts, it's all about money, our money. We white people work for that money and pay taxes to support the Reserve Indians. They in turn do not recognize or respect our laws. Witness the the blockades of our roads and running contraband cigarettes and booze for starters.

Every successive government has given in to all demands from the Chiefs of the various Tribes, tossed money into what amounts to a bottomless pit, and there's no accountability for it.

I have nothing to apologize for, the Natives had better start apologizing for their abominable behaviour and disrespect they show us as a people and as a Nation.

Posted by: Liz J | 2008-06-10 2:20:15 PM


>"Aboriginal rights cannot be extinguished. That is International Law, which Canada defies but nonetheless can be used to gain justice.

In recognition of this fact, the Supreme Court ruling applies to ALL traditional Indigenous land existing at the time of contact."
granny | 10-Jun-08 12:15:54 PM

Canada is not a signatory of the particular piece of international law you are referring to.

You have a right to your opinions, granny, but not to private "facts" which are not facts.

Canadian Indians are NOT aboriginals nor are they indigenous.
Any first year paleontology student can tell you that ALL of mankind originated in North Africa so outside of North Africa NO people are either Indigenous or Aboriginal.

That International Law which you refer to, granny, is based on false premises.

Kennewick man, who was Caucasian and not genetically and Indian, is the oldest fossil found in the Americas.

Calling dibs or "firsties" therefore is a strategy doomed to failure.

Regardless, the Treaties are binding and the International courts haven't the power to enforce laws on non-signatories.
Even if Canada was a signatory of any International Law, Canada could renounce that law as easily as the Indians want to renounce their Treaties.

If you want to see what real genocide looks like, you'll see it as soon as all the non-Indian people of Canada are stripped of the nation which their ancestors built.

>"This apology could be the beginning of more demands, next it will be MORE money, the only balm that will cure their hurts, it's all about money, our money."
Liz J | Tuesday, June 10, 2008 at 02:20 PM

Liz J, there are already demands for more money.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2008/06/10/5826716-sun.html


Posted by: Speller | 2008-06-10 2:28:20 PM


"We white people work for that money and pay taxes to support the Reserve Indians."

Posted by: Liz J | 10-Jun-08 2:20:15 PM

I'm not proud to announce that by my calculation, only about 25% of us white people actually work for our money. You can't include any government employee in the rolls of working people. Their pay comes from the same slush fund as the native's money.


Posted by: dp | 2008-06-10 3:21:29 PM


You can't include any government employee in the rolls of working people. Their pay comes from the same slush fund as the native's money.
Posted by: dp | 10-Jun-08 3:21:29 PM

Would you include a private company that has a contract to provide a service to some level of government?

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-06-10 3:31:05 PM


It was just a sarcastic comment stig. I don't actually spend much time trying to rate the legitimacy of people's income. That includes natives. The way I see it if natives can milk the government, they're in good company. I once collected EI for 3 months in 1976, so I can't really claim a perfect record. We live in a socialized nation, and no matter how much we wish for a free market system, it will not happen.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-10 4:19:12 PM


Wow.
Bad vibes, as always.

Now some good vibes from outside Canada:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QwQfwzEXse8

Posted by: Marc | 2008-06-10 4:23:00 PM


It was just a sarcastic comment stig.
Posted by: dp | 10-Jun-08 4:19:12 PM

As was mine.

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-06-10 4:32:56 PM


S'up Marc?

Where did you find the video? Talk about an identity crisis! Four Frenchmen, dressed like lumberjacks, living in tee pees, riding in Canadian Tire canoes, performing African American music, and speaking in some sort of french-ebonics.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-10 4:39:59 PM


So what ?
I see much more respect there.
I don't like rap but at least, it easely sounds better than some canuck neocons and other rednecks, trying to be more american than Americans - when it's not British (or the unamable State). Unable of explaining economic optinions without tarnishing someone (and in this case - more intend to these land that you'll ever be), Dressed ok...for Calgary...I guess, performing...David Frum and other warmongers pen, speaking the most unpleasant kind of English - the neocon's English.

Make fun of our real and bouillant Cultures, pal.
Because yours...is sad to drink.

Posted by: Marc | 2008-06-10 5:14:05 PM


Aboriginals, Indians, Natives or whatever they are calling themselves these days were given a free education through the residential school system but that still wasn’t good enough for them so they concoct this story about physical and sexual abuse to get even more money out of the federal government. There has never been any evidence of abuse in the residential school system. Those are the facts

Posted by: Will Williamson | 2008-06-10 5:25:16 PM


See.

Posted by: Marc | 2008-06-10 5:32:09 PM


Fact Check whined

"Secondly, I want you to know I am not sorry for any of the pain and suffering that you may have been caused by your time in residential schools. "

You were doing fine until you injected thoughts that Mr. Nicholls never expressed nor inferred.

Even if he had inferred that he wasn't sorry, it would be irrelevant. Perhaps he just doesn't give it much thought.

Are you sorry that Stalin killed millions in the name of international socialism on your behalf whether or not you agree with the tennets of international socialism?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-06-10 5:50:20 PM


There has never been any evidence of abuse in the residential school system. Those are the facts

Posted by: Will Williamson | 10-Jun-08 5:25:16 PM

What the hell? What do you consider evidence Will?Idiotic statements like that don't help anybody.

Lighten up will ya marc. I make fun of Anglos that listen to hip hop too. It's stealing someone else's culture, and the real hip hop culture doesn't like it either. You have to admit they could have come up with some better music.

Back home we used to listen to plenty of bouillant fiddle players. Sort of makes me feel like dancing a jig. I think that's why Frenchmen fight with their feet. All that step dancing, and log jumping made their legs really strong.

I really love the "logdriver song".

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-10 5:50:24 PM


It’s about damn time the government and its tax payers are making the much long awaited apology. I can only laugh at the majority of the comments posted here. And all of them mean absolute ****, because there is not a damn thing anyone of them can do. So I think I’ll enjoy my free education, tax free gas and cigs tvm. BTW, thanks for the money whitey! I ought to check my trap line now, see yas!

Posted by: Indian | 2008-06-10 5:51:31 PM


Did Phil Fontaine go to a residential school? Yes, he attended the Fort Alexander Indian Residential School for 10 years, where, he alleges, he experienced first hand "racism, sexual and physical abuse and the despair of powerlessness that comes with poverty." (Funny, the mini-biography this info comes from said that his first experience of poverty was when his father died...
http://www.afn.ca/article.asp?id=487)

One notices that he speaks very good English.

One notices that he got the kind of education at the residential school that enabled him to go to university and to become a lawyer.

One can't help asking that had he stayed on his family's reservation, would he have been able to acquire the education needed to go to university and acquire the law degree which has enabled him to negotiate many settlements for First Nations Canadians?

One can't help asking whether the university Fontaine went to was founded and funded by the First Nations, from the $9-billion/year they receive from the Canadian government, or whether he attended a university/universities founded and funded by the "White Man" he seems to despise?

'Just asking. There seem to be a lot of ironies and double standards going on with Phil Fontaine and many like him.

Posted by: batb | 2008-06-10 5:53:17 PM


Indian,

"So I think I’ll enjoy my free education, tax free gas and cigs tvm. BTW, thanks for the money whitey! I ought to check my trap line now, see yas!"

I really appreciate your appeal to race. It is acknowledgement that you view whites as either the only race of suckers out there or the only race out there capable of generating enough revenue to sustain their own civilization and still support your sorry ass.

Either way, it sure sounds racist.

I wonder whether the BC HRC is willing to view this website as either exonerating their current crop of victims (whites only) or as evidence against their next crop of defendants (aboriginals)?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-06-10 5:58:09 PM


Hey Indian, would you consider adopting me? An old friend of mine from a Lilloet almost gave in, but decided it would make him feel too old. When I asked about marrying his daughter, he got a little angry.

Seriously, where's a good place for my sons to meet native girls? These education costs are scaring me.

Posted by: dp | 2008-06-10 6:00:30 PM


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