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Friday, May 02, 2008

Finally, someone understands the real reason for an Olympic Boycott

Nearly 200 American Jewish leaders are calling for a boycott of the 2008 Games.  They cite the usual reasons we hear, plus some others that, IMHO, are more pertinent and important than all the rest put together, "its provision of missiles to Iran and Syria, and friendship for Hamas."

The facts are these: the Communist regime is not just brutal to its own people, not just cruel to the occupied Tibetans, not merely complicitous in the Sudan/Darfur horror.  It is the enemy of the democratic world, and proves it by its ties to the Iranian mullahcracy, Tehran's Syrian satrapy, and Hamas.  When Moscow chose adventurism and domination over civilized behavior in Afghanistan in 1979, we stayed away one year later.  Communist China is doing the same thing, and that's we should stay away this August.

Posted by D.J. McGuire on May 2, 2008 in International Affairs | Permalink


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We can't forget the moral imperative to act--to do whatever we can--to stop and prevent genocide. Chinese arms to Darfur are the number 1 reason we should boycott the Olympics, or whatever else it takes.

Posted by: First things first | 2008-05-02 9:27:01 AM

It's past the tipping point in Canada. There are enough Chinese immigrants here to put together a pretty good team.

Even immigrants who came here to escape the tyranny seem to have a bond with the homeland. Maybe they're just hedging their bets. The Chinese TV stations that are broadcast from Toronto have regular programs to teach a new language to Cantonese speaking immigrants. No, not English. The big demand is lessons in Mandarin, the official government language of communist China. What do they know that we don't?

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-02 9:45:49 AM

FTF: We don't have a moral imperative to become involved in foreign entanglements. Boycotting the olympics for Darfur would be about the same as boycotting the actions of a serial killer. It is futile. Worry about the tyranny at home.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-02 10:13:46 AM

abc, I agree. Besides, why should an athelete be banned from entering a competition that he has trained possibly his/her whole life for? Maybe this is their only shot at a career in their sport? Why should they be denied? The only reason I can think of is because they receive funding from the feds, and so if they say no, it is no.

Posted by: TM | 2008-05-02 3:03:08 PM


"The only reason I can think of is because they receive funding from the feds, and so if they say no, it is no. "

The athletes should decide on their own whether to go or not and they should do it without my tax dollars. I fail to understand why I should work hard all day so I can support someone who plays games for a living.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-02 3:18:44 PM

Agreed h2o.
Why should we care what a bunch of self-serving
egotistical people want to do? If they want to become atheletes then let them, but not on our
This whole nationalism thing is wearing very thin.
When a country has to prove their worth by the number of gold medals their representatives win, then it's one sad state of affairs.
Personally I don't watch the olympics and could care less who wins or loses. These people need to get a life and a real job. Like "artists" and "producers" and all the other hangers-on, they are doing nothing more than living off the government tit to validate their own precious egos.

Posted by: gerry | 2008-05-02 3:40:14 PM

I agree with H2 and TM.

TM: Once you hold your hand out for a pittance, you've sold your free will and you'll follow the state's will. That's a bad position to be in.

But, we have our hands out for health care, education etc. It's not like we babysit ourselves. The olympic athletes are just the same state recipients as we all are, but they have more fun getting it.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-02 3:43:45 PM


"But, we have our hands out for health care, education etc. It's not like we babysit ourselves. The olympic athletes are just the same state recipients as we all are, but they have more fun getting it. "

Fine! Stop taxing me for health care, education, and babysitting.

I only want to pay to see our gov't

"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women."

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-02 4:15:30 PM

Hey, I'm with your first two paragraphs.

#3 is a bit confusing.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-02 4:24:18 PM


Col. Nathan R. Jessep:You want answers?
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I think I'm entitled.
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You want answers?!
Lt. Daniel Kaffee: I want the truth!
Col. Nathan R. Jessep: You can't handle the truth!

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-02 5:38:12 PM

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: I am Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, your senior drill instructor. From now on you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last words out of your filthy sewers will be sir. Do you maggots understand that?

Recruits: Sir, yes sir!

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Bullshit I can't hear you. Sound off like you got a pair.

Recruits: SIR, YES SIR!


Animal Mother: You a photographer?
Private Joker: I'm a combat correspondent.
Animal Mother: Well, you seen much combat?
Private Joker: I've seen a little on TV.
Animal Mother: You're a real comedian.
Private Joker: Well they call me the Joker.
Animal Mother: Well I got a joke for you. I'm gonna tear you a new a*****e.
Private Joker: [Joker does his John Wayne impersonation]
Private Joker: Well, pilgrim, only after you eat the peanuts out of my s**t.
Animal Mother: You talk the talk. Do you walk the walk?

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-05-02 5:57:30 PM

Zeb wins!

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-02 6:03:28 PM

Boy, sure a lot of people who didn't get picked for the basketball team. That's okay, have a donut, beer, or maybe a smoke. Walk across the room and have a go at the play station for awhile. The rest of us understand your resentment.

You're the same ones that bitch about school taxes after your kids move out. You complain if a baby cries in a restaurant. You yell at the kids on skateboards until you look again and realize they're over 10 years old, and could likely kick your ass.

Sports and art are part of any successful community. Always have been always will be. Cheer up though, if poker is considered a sport maybe all those hours you spent playing donkey kong might put you in line for an olympic team.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-02 6:24:24 PM

At 6'1", 250lbs. body builder, I doubt many would kick my ass.
Oh, I still have kids.
Arts is fine so long as I don't have to be butt-intercoursed to pay for it.
I don't play computer games. I prefer real life.

Any other myths you care to explode?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-02 6:32:37 PM

Did I fail to mention my 2 ADVANCED degrees in physics?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-02 6:36:34 PM

I seem to recall h2o claiming to be a woman a short time ago. Which is the real h2o? Holy shit, you're a 250 lb. chick? All in fun

Seriously though, I spend a fortune supporting amateur sport. Not to beat a dead horse, but it makes a big difference in the development of growing minds. I think gerry's vision for society is not something we would be very happy with.

I think that amateur sport should be funded by professional sport. So do a lot of amateur sport associations. Where do you think all those pro teams find the next gretzky or shaq? Just remember the owners of those teams are only interested in ready made athletes. They don't give a shit where they come from.

Any suggestions on funding amateur sport? Most businesses in Canada think the gov. should foot the bill. Most ordinary citizens think the same thing, so when you approach people for donations they aren't convinced you really need the money.

Just a funny side note for h2o. When I was coaching back in the 80's I had a 13 year old that could hit like a friggin mule. One day a big guy came in wanting to spar. He watched this kid working with an older kid in the gym. I joked that he could spar with this kid, and he got sort of quiet and excused himself. Pardon me if I don't tremble in the presence of bodybuilders.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-02 8:24:23 PM

Yes not to mention the persection of millions of Christians in China.

Posted by: Merle | 2008-05-02 8:46:26 PM

Same old, same old. What's good is what's good for the Jews!

"Having endured the bitter experience of abandonment by our presumed allies during the Holocaust, we feel a particular obligation to speak out against injustice and persecution today."

Except of course when Jews are the messianic mass murderers and gentiles are the victims. Holodomor anyone?

"When Moscow chose adventurism and domination over civilized behavior in Afghanistan in 1979,..."

It's not how Brzezinski tells it.

"Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise. Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war? "

Of course Brzez is Polish. :)

Posted by: DJ | 2008-05-02 9:39:41 PM

Wiseman once say Walmart lead toys soon leads to Olympic gold for glorious Workers paradise of China

Posted by: confuscious | 2008-05-02 10:04:46 PM


"One day a big guy came in wanting to spar. He watched this kid working with an older kid in the gym. I joked that he could spar with this kid, and he got sort of quiet and excused himself. Pardon me if I don't tremble in the presence of bodybuilders. "

Just goes to show you that looks can be deceiving.

"Boy, sure a lot of people who didn't get picked for the basketball team. That's okay, have a donut, beer, or maybe a smoke. Walk across the room and have a go at the play station for awhile.

Perhaps I guess I did get picked for the basketball team after all

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-03 2:41:29 AM

I'm with dp on the bodybuilders vs fighters thing. I train in Muay Thai and although I respect their strength, bodybuilders aren't trained fighters.

But, I'm against dp on sucking the gov't tit. H2 has a right to bitch about paying for anothers anything. That is your resposibility dp, unless you're a communist and believe that one man's sweat and toil should be stolen by someone else. Pay for yourself.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-03 12:52:45 PM

"Just goes to show you that looks can be deceiving."

That was sort of my point. I thought bodybuilding was all about looks. Besides, I was just messing with you. I'm not looking for a fight. Unless you really want to.

I'm more interested in your opinion of funding and public support of amateur sport. I'm totally opposed to olympic boycotts. For those couple of weeks every four years politics need to go to the back burner. Sure some people consider olympic athletes to be elite parasites. I think of them as a symbol of the ability of a given country to focus on something other than politics, big business, or war.

Maybe it's time to bring the olympics down a couple of notches. Maybe if the pedestal was lower, there'd be fewer people trying to knock it over. Face it, plenty of people are glad for the opportunity to get a message across. The olympics is a big, big target.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-03 1:08:34 PM

dp: My point was that any hand out that is first stolen by gov't, then given to athletes, unwed mothers, schooling etc is wrong. A system based on stealing is immoral.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-03 1:21:31 PM


Muay Thai is a bit different than a lot of other sports. For one thing it has no amateur association, and to my knowledge no amateur status. Most of your fellow athletes are probably no younger than about 16, right? The gym you work out in probably has pro fighters, and is run as a business.

Compare that to amateur boxing, where many of the kids are as young as 11. Lots of them get involved because their parents can't afford hockey. Plenty of funding is available through gaming (casinos, bingo) but it's a challenge to get in the queue with all the more high profile sports. Almost all the coaching is done by volunteers, unless it's a gym with pro fighters.

Many amateur athletes have high hopes of making it as professionals. In my case, I absolutely discourage this, so an olympic medal is the end not the means.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-03 1:23:38 PM

dp: CAKMA - Canadian Amateur Kickboxing Association

And, there is a Muay Thai council, but I don't know the acronym.

I was a boxing gym rat when I was a kid. You'll find the same set up in Muay Thai as you do in boxing, with the exception that there are a lot more women involved. There are a lot of under 16 year olds. There are pro's and three levels of amateurs.

Until your opponent is a real good kicker, you can fall back on your boxing, which allows old guys like me the ability to compete. I've lost speed but gained power.

Misty Sutherland was amateur world champ a few years ago and she had to work or get donations to go to Thailand and that's the way it should be. I pay for my training and so should olympians.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-03 1:36:16 PM


I always support other combat sports. How about come watch my kid compete May 10 at Teofista gym in Calgary? I promise to attend any of your events when possible. Bring earplugs.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-03 1:51:12 PM

I believe I was clear in my post. No taxes for athletes. Facilities, perhaps.

Olympic boycotts? If my taxes aren't paying for it I hardly have a right to tell an athlete they can't go. So yeah, I'm for boycotting every single Olympic games if it means I'm paying for it. That goes double for Vancouver since I'm paying to send and to host.

"You yell at the kids on skateboards until you look again and realize they're over 10 years old, and could likely kick your ass."

I doubt many 10 year olds can kick my ass even with Muay Thai. And just because one bodybuilds, do not assume that this is all they do. I can throw a mean right cross and at 250lbs, if I connect, most people won't get up.

As appearances can be deceiving, you'll agree it was a mistake to assume many posting here never set foot in a gym and only play video games.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-05-03 1:54:28 PM

I would most certainly come and watch your youngster in action.

I believe the next international Muay Thai in Calgary is on May 21. You're invited.

H2 are you in?

I don't want want to turn this into a tough guy thread, but I'm 220 lbs and I prefer to fight bigger guys. The little guys move too quick. A good hook doesn't mean that much. What do have for combinations?:)

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-03 2:01:42 PM

Jesus Christ! Two supposedly grown men challenging one another to a fight! How friggin' mature of you both!
Get a life, for God's sake!

Posted by: gerry | 2008-05-03 2:23:33 PM

uh gerry: Where was the challenge? These are invitations to fighting events. I know it's Saturday, but wake up and have a coffee.

Posted by: abc | 2008-05-03 2:26:48 PM


We're talking about an actual sporting event here, not a challenge to fight each other. Which is good because I'm outweighed here by 20 lbs minimum.


I get the point about taxes. The problem is most Canadians think they're already paying so they don't see any need to donate after-tax dollars to anything, let alone sport. When the gov. cut way back on grants a few years back, it's taken quite a while to adjust. Meanwhile the gov. tries to let on it's still supporting amateur sport so most folks think we're being greedy asking for more funds. Oh well, I'm doing my part.

abc- I'd rather go with the bigger guys too. My 135 pounder hits me so many times, so fast, I swear there's two of them.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-03 3:39:41 PM

Antonin Décarie, Mtl, became WBO NABO welterweight Champion this afternon against the American Brian «The Golden Greek» Camechis (17-0-0).

Posted by: Marc | 2008-05-03 4:38:51 PM


I see Troy Ross also won his match. He is a poster boy for the olympics. He hung in for 2 tries at an olympic medal, with no luck. An immigrant from Guyana I think.

He played sort of a dog in the manger role on the national team. He was too good to lose his place, but not good enough to win the gold medal. As a carded athlete he was paid over $1000 a month for training expenses, and as long as he wanted to stay in school his tuition and expenses were paid. He probably had a better living as an amateur than as a pro.

I'd say he's a success story as an immigrant, but he sure cost us a fortune for quite a few years. He's the guy that h2o has a problem with, and as far as I'm concerned he's a good example of funds going to the wrong place.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-03 5:48:12 PM

So sick of us bending over for the ChiComs and the business interests in Canada that promote them. Time to severe relations with China and build them with Inda. The US should help arm India to act as a counterbalance to the fascists in Bejing.

Posted by: Faramir | 2008-05-04 3:49:15 PM

dp- The olympics are great to watch and I applaud the level of performance. Lets give our heads a shake- a symbol of politics, big business and war? The Olympics certainly are political. They are big business and they are war by other means.

Posted by: DML | 2008-05-04 3:52:24 PM

Boycotting the Olympics will not solve anything. Free Tibet........shit, most people would,nt find Tibet on the map if you dragged them up and circled it. Just another cause for people with too much time on their hands.Flavor of the year. As if we don't have enough problems at home. It's simply more exotic when the problems are somewhere else.Lets just enjoy the games for what they are.It may lead to something better. Or like the 1936 Olympics, worse. Either way it will be entertaining.

Posted by: peterj | 2008-05-04 9:46:09 PM

Try as I might, I'm having trouble coming up with any legitimate argument to support my position. From my point of view, as a coach and father of amateur athletes, I have to go against a boycott. As a Canadian taxpayer, I certainly see the other side. The majority of comments dissagree with my position, and when I consider both sides I have no choice but to concede.

It really has gone way beyond what the games were intended to represent. Politics, doping scandals, bad judging, and plenty more crap. Amateur boxers in Canada rarely qualify for the games. Only one kid actually qualified this year. Professional athletes are allowed in certain sports. First generation Canadians sometimes opt to compete for their parents country of origin if they don't qualify here, or in the case of cry baby willie dewitt, if he doesn't get his own way.

Jeez, the more I think about it the less I care if the games ever happen.

Posted by: dp | 2008-05-04 9:46:19 PM

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