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Wednesday, February 27, 2008
No Choice Now: Canada must support Kosovo independence
Now up at the Western Standard is a feature article by Joseph C. Ben-Ami and Joseph B. Varner entitled "No Choice Now: Canada must support Kosovo independence."
An excerpt:
"The truth is that there are no good choices available to policy makers on the question of Kosovo’s independence--only bad and worse. By delaying a decision on recognition of Kosovo’s independence, Canada has already demonstrated its unease with the situation, and its frustration that the mission in Kosovo should have been so badly botched in the first place. It is now time for Canada to demonstrate its commitment to the alliance by rising above these vicissitudes and joining its allies." Read more...
Posted by westernstandard on February 27, 2008 in Western Standard | Permalink
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Comments
Well, Joseph C. Ben-Ami and Joseph B. Varner, Turkey, a NATO partner, has gone nearly 100 years without recognizing or admitting the Armenian Genocide.
Turkey has been massacring and ethnically cleansing the Kurds for decades.
The day Canada recognizes Kosovo should occur on the same day that Canada recognizes an independent Kurdistan, and for all the same reasons you have outlined in your post that Canada should recognize Kosovo.
Would that cause a rift in NATO?
NORAD matters to Canada but NATO continues to exist for the single purpose of the forward stationing of land based American nuclear missiles in Europe.
With America's current technology and nuclear arsenal this is unnecessary.
This is a provocation to Russia and a violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that the United States and all NATO nations are signatories of.
IF the Cold War is over, and I personally don't think it is, it is past time NATO was dissolved.
It is not in Canada's interest to recognize Kosovo.
It was Canada's membership in NATO that caused Canada to be a party to the war crimes that NATO committed against the Serbs in the states of the former Yugoslavia.
Posted by: Speller | 2008-02-27 12:14:44 PM
US Camp Bondsteel Kosovo
http://www.swiftview.com/~ormilmuseum/pictures/bondsteel.jpg
Posted by: DJ | 2008-02-27 12:35:02 PM
America, Britain, France, Australia, etc. are nations run by dhimmified fools, period. Canada should never recognize Kosovo's illegal UDI. This US-created entity will NEVER gain membership in the UN, NATO, the EU or any other international organization. Does Canada recognize the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? Of course not, so why should we recognize another illegal gangster/jihadist Muslim state, despite our so-called allies pressuring us to do so?
Recognition of Kosovo's UDI is truly America's "jump the shark" moment as a world power. The vast majority of the world's nations will never recognize this illegal UDI, and it will be the US that will have to back down in the end. They did this solely to appease the Muslim world, and even that has backfired on them as the large majority of Muslim nations don't recognize Kosovo's independence. Hopefully the open-borders fanatics who presently run the US will live to see the day when a Hispanic-dominated southwest unilaterally declares independence from the rest of America. Just desserts indeed.
The KLA terrorist-mafia rulers of Kosovo don't even have control of all of Kosovo. And without their NATO henchman ethnically cleansing Serb-dominated northern Kosovo, they never will. Consider that its been known for many months that America would back Kosovo's illegal UDI, yet 10 days after the declaration a paltry 20 (out of nearly 200) nations have recognized it. So much for American "diplomacy".
Probably the best solution at this point would be a partition of Kosovo between Serbia and Albania, rather than allow an outlaw Muslim state to continue to exist in the heart of Europe. Thank God for Serbia, Russia, China, Spain, Romania, Sri Lanka, Argentina, India, South Africa, Greece, New Zealand, Canada and the scores of other nations who are refusing to endorse this American policy of suicidal dhimmitude. Bush, Rice and the striped-pants set at the State Department have fully disgraced themselves on this issue and, much worse, have perhaps permanently disgraced their once-great nation. Viva Putin!
Posted by: JP | 2008-02-27 1:40:19 PM
James,
Your defence, and Speller's earlier, is quite eloquent and in an historical context, supportable. However, as you allude to, demographics is destiny. The Serbs did not entrench their gains in 1912 when a programme of non-lethal transfer of Albanians (who are European in origin though Muslim) out of Kosovo was unopposed. Subsequent declining Serb birthrates and legal/illegal migration by Albanians to Kosovo rendered the Serbs an extremely small minority. In the present context, with a vast Albanian majority, historical context bears little weight.
Yes the Yanks et al moved the inevitable along more quickly, possibly for other reasons (trans Balkan pipeline) however, in the end it was just a matter of time. Not unlike Canada, if the invasion is not stopped, it will just be a matter of time.
Posted by: DJ | 2008-02-27 2:20:29 PM
The first striking injustice in treatment is clearly seen inside what was formerly the Yugoslav Federation. The bloody wars of the 1990s ended with geopolitical realities that affect the question of Kosovo today. While the independence of Slovenia from the Yugoslav Federation, following the brief Ten Day War, went somewhat smoothly for lack of a "minority question," the separation of Croatia and Bosnia caused bloody wars, massacres and ethnic cleansing.
The international community, led by the US and Western Europe, immediately recognized the right of separation for the two breakaway Republics, but at the same time opposed the same right for self-determination for the Serbian national minorities within these two newly recognized countries. The following question has never been answered:
Why can Croats and Muslims separate from Yugoslavia while Serbs cannot implement that same right toward Croatia and Bosnia?
FROM>
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/12/be_wise_on_kosovo.html
The answer is that the United States is trying to curry favour with Muslims, particularly the oil exporting Muslim states.
How far will this appeasement go and at what cost to the moral and cultural fabric of our own nations?
It is incumbent for Canada to strike a new path and not build upon the wrong that was committed by our forces, as a part of NATO, in the states of the former Yugoslav Federation.
Canada does not need to be a member of NATO any longer.
Canada has mutual defence Treaties with the United States in NORAD and the United States and Britain in the Tripartite Treaty.
Posted by: Speller | 2008-02-27 3:02:12 PM
Yes, let's vote to support an independent Islamic state right in the middle of Europe, London England may not quite be enough to get the Jihad done in reasonable time.
Posted by: John West | 2008-02-27 3:05:26 PM
Everyone has the right to secession. If a certain amount of people (Quebec, Alberta, Slovenia, Kosovo) want to detach themselves from a different culture, then let them be. Why should they be ruled contrary to their culture?
Speller: I agree that Bosnia had the right to withdraw from the Federation AND the minority groups within Bosnia also have the right to withdraw.
JP: Swearing allegience to a politician? You gotta be shitting me.
John West: Why not have an Islamic state if the Islamics are there anyway?
Posted by: Veteran | 2008-02-27 3:26:15 PM
Extremely well put Speller. I totally agree. That everybody else is doing it is no justification for doing what is right as I used to tell my teenagers.
Posted by: Alain | 2008-02-27 4:23:02 PM
Sorry should have read - for doing what is not right...
Posted by: Alain | 2008-02-27 4:24:45 PM
"Why can Croats and Muslims separate from Yugoslavia while Serbs cannot implement that same right toward Croatia and Bosnia?"
Apparently the Bosnian Serbs are intending a referendum and declaration of independence. Unlike in Croatia, however, the Bosnian Serbs have a relatively contiguous territory. Croatian Serbs are geographically dispersed and again, a very, very small minority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hrvatska_srbi.gif
Posted by: DJ | 2008-02-27 6:50:25 PM
well, guys why are you wasting time, Canada will join the democratic states and recognize Kosova who deserved the independence after all the decades of genocide and crimes commited by serb orthodox terrorists, it is an idiotic statement from dj and others that mention the islamic state, what do you have against the islamic state, it is like if any islamic country for example Turkey would say something against christian states, we are all human beings and we should not make judgements on race, religion or ethicity like the serbs are doing with their propaganda, it is understandable that canada will follow the steps of 25 democratic states that recognized the Republic of Kosova, and not go with comunist russiand and china who have personal problems with the human rights and freedom of their own people, Canadian governmnet is smart and they know what their doing,they will support the newest nation and Kosova will be grateful for that recognition.
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-27 8:06:08 PM
artan,
It is clear that you didn't read the Western Standard feature article by Joseph C. Ben-Ami and Joseph B. Varner.
It is also clear you know nothing of the history of Kosovo and that you have the IQ of a carrot if you think the "Canadian government is smart and they know what their doing." if they end up recognizing Kosovo.
If it was up to the Canadian government they wouldn't recognize Kosovo or they already would have done so.
If the Canadian government does recognize Kosovo, the decision will have been made in Washington D.C., not Ottawa.
Posted by: Speller | 2008-02-27 8:16:49 PM
Kosovo, even though it is a Serbian province under UN control, should have the right to secession, as long as it is the will of the majority of people within the province. If the province were to go to an election and allow the people to decide whether or not they wanted to be autonomous then there should be no qualms about it. If it is the will of the majority to secede from Serbia then Canada should back the liberties of those who live in the province of Kosovo. It would be the same, if any of our own provinces wanted to secede. Even if it is an Islamic state, that they want to create.
Posted by: Redneck Ryder | 2008-02-28 12:27:37 AM
>"then Canada should back the liberties of those who live in the province of Kosovo. It would be the same, if any of our own provinces wanted to secede. Even if it is an Islamic state, that they want to create."
Redneck Ryder | 28-Feb-08 12:27:37 AM
Apart from the fact that it does not serve Canada's interest in any way to recognize Kosovo's independence, it is absurd to use the word liberty when talking about an Islamic state.
Islam means submission, a Muslim is one who submits. Liberty is an alien concept.
It is death for a Muslim to renounce Islam and become an atheist or convert to another religious persuasion.
A Muslim woman's inheritance is 1/2 of a man's.
A Muslim woman's testimony in a Sharia court is 1/4 of a man's.
Woman are chattel in Islam.
You are writing nonsense, Redneck Ryder.
Posted by: Speller | 2008-02-28 12:51:47 AM
Speller, you are telling me that I know nothing about the history of my own country, wow I really didnt know that, why didnt you remind me of that earlier, man if you think I have the IQ of a carrot , than you must be without a brain or either your brain is frozen. I have been a part of all major hisrorical events in Kosova since 1981, but anyways, I just shared my opinion which is correct, canada will and must recognize Kosova`s independence as have all other democratic states, recently Austria and swiss recognized Kosova, that was just yesterday to become the 25th state recognizing Kosova , here are the countries that recognized kosova officially:
United states
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Turkey
Malaysia
Switzerland
Belgium
Luxemburg
Australia
Denmark
Austria
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Afghanistan
Costa Rica
Peru
Albania
Senegal
Recognition procedure has been initiated by for other countries:
Finland
Norway
Lithuania
Slovenia, and other countried are ready to recognize Kosova day by day.
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-28 5:39:14 AM
artan,
Just for the record, here is a list of nations who have stated they will never recognize Kosovo's illegal UDI:
Argentina
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Bolivia
Belarus
Brazil
China
Cyprus
Georgia
Greece
India
Kazakhstan
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Mexico
Moldova
New Zealand
Philippines
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovakia
South Africa
Spain
Sri Lanka
Tajikistan
Ukraine
Vatican City
Venezuela
Vietnam
(Source: Wikipedia)
In addition to these nations, which account for about half the world's population, there are an additional 100+ countries (including Canada) that have not recognized Kosovo's UDI and may never do so. Your beloved "Kosova" will never be admitted to the UN, EU, NATO, OECD or any other international organization. Nor will the jihadists and mafiosi who make up the KLA government ever control Kosovo north of the Ibar River. But to give credit where credit is due, they have managed to train the US foreign policy establishment to jump through hoops at their command. Well done.
Posted by: JP | 2008-02-28 7:36:48 AM
>"Speller, you are telling me that I know nothing about the history of my own country, wow I really didnt know that,"
artan | 28-Feb-08 5:39:14 AM
This statement by you is an absolute falsehood, ALBANIAN.
***>"after all the decades of genocide and crimes commited by serb orthodox terrorists"
artan | 27-Feb-08 8:06:08 PM
There was NO genocide in Kosovo comitted by the Serbs.
All of the real genocides of the 20th Century are documented with proof.
ALL of them.
They can each be located by name, and the forensic photographs are available for each on the world wide web showing the mass graves and the piles of corpses.
The MSM claimed for propaganda purposes this was happening in Kosovo and the Albanian occupied states of the former Yugoslav Federation to justify a NATO war against the Serbs but it NEVER HAPPENED.
Genocide cannot be covered up.
>"Kosova will be grateful for that recognition."
artan | 27-Feb-08 8:06:08 PM
Grateful Albanians?
What a joke.
Albanians are the Muslim terrorists who invaded and raped Serbs and allied with Mussolini's Italian Fascists to commit genocide against the Serbs in WWII.
Claims of Serb initiated Genocide in Kosovo are Lies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccQec5ZPNWg&feature=related
NATO War Crimes in the Kosovo WWar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyBxcWNfrrQ&NR=1
Kosovo - Emerging As A Bastion For Radical Islam/ Jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqThra0kCI&feature=related
Posted by: Speller | 2008-02-28 10:01:10 AM
ebt,
Did you click my links above?
Does it matter if our allies are wrong?
Does it matter that Kosovo is going to be a bastion for Jihadis and a host state for al-Qa'eda right in the heart of Europe?
If Canada were to quit NATO the U.S. would still be our ally in a number of mutual defense treaties, including NORAD and the Tripartite Treaty which also ties us to Britain.
Recognizing Kosovo is just the wrong thing to do.
Helping NATO bomb the Serbs was a war crime.
It has been recognized for hundreds of years of international practice that it is wrong for outside nations to directly intervene in another nations civil war.
That's what NATO did with the Yugoslav Federation, that's what Canada was complicit in, and it was wrong.
Recognizing Kosovo will build upon that wrong and make us responsible for the wars that will break out because of it.
The terrorist KLA are the new government in Kosovo.
They will be like the Taliban.
The KLA are connected directly to the Taliban and the Taliban provided the Afghan heroin to the KLA which is the major pipeline for heroin to Europe.
NATO is overseeing the biggest poppy crop in history right now in Afghanistan and they are guaranteeing security for the KLA in Kosovo.
During its time in power, the Taliban regime, or "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan," gained diplomatic recognition from only three states: the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia all of whom also provided aid.
The Taliban ruled Afghanistan for 7 years and Canada didn't recognize it.
Canada does NOT have to recognize the KLA rule of Kosovo.
Recognizing Kosovo is not in Canada's interest.
Posted by: Speller | 2008-02-28 2:12:09 PM
JP wow, what are you trying to say now that China, Russia, Serbia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Tadikistan you and Bin Laden did not recognize Kosova, wow you will make me cry you now, you just showed your stupidity, every sane person knows how these countries are and what kind of human rights they have for their own people, so if you like those countries so much, why don`t you go and live there then, the bottom line is we are very proud that all the democratic and civilized countries recognized Kosova Like the U.S, Great Britain, Germany , France, Italy, do you think I care that Russia and China did not recognize it, sooner and later they will have to , and as far as the attempts to link al qaeda with Kosovo, that is the most ridicilous thing I ever heard, here are the facts on my next comment
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-28 5:09:32 PM
JP wow, what are you trying to say now that China, Russia, Serbia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Tadikistan you and Bin Laden did not recognize Kosova, wow you will make me cry you now, you just showed your stupidity, every sane person knows how these countries are and what kind of human rights they have for their own people, so if you like those countries so much, why don`t you go and live there then, the bottom line is we are very proud that all the democratic and civilized countries recognized Kosova Like the U.S, Great Britain, Germany , France, Italy, do you think I care that Russia and China did not recognize it, sooner and later they will have to , and as far as the attempts to link al qaeda with Kosovo, that is the most ridicilous thing I ever heard, here are the facts on my next comment
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-28 5:09:38 PM
The Republic of Kosova - facts.
For all those who did not know the facts about the religion in Kosova, there are three main confessions among the ethnic albanians,90% muslim and 10% catholic and orthodox albanians, the number of christian albanianas is the same of the serbian minority in Kosova,the only thing is there some individuals who are trying to link the new state with radical islamists in other muslim countries, that statement is not correct and is absurd to say, the christian albanians are so patriotic as other muslim albanians and they all live together in harmony.
For those who attempt to make propaganda about the Kosova muslims, the truth is that they are the most moderate muslims in the world, these are the people who have strong connections with American people and they strongly support the U.S, Canada and the democracy, the danger comes from the Orthodox church and other radical extremists who never succeded to link islamic extremism with the muslim albanians in Kosova. Albanians would never ever imagine to burn the U.S flag or burn U.S embassies like the serb protesters did since 1999 and the most recently last week, this was also documented bu the national inteligence agency.
We albanians think that America, Canada and their flags are noble and saint things for us. We are building the bigest chatolic cathedral in the capital prishtina to show that Kosova is democratic multi cultural and civilized state.
We have given Mother Theresa to the world who was an albanian nun that won the nobel peace prize.
Albanians come from the ancient ilyrians who gave the most famous roman emperors and popes like constantine{
Gaius Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus}
Constantine is best remembered in modern times for the Edict of Milan in 313, which fully legalized Christianity in the Empire, for the first time.
We also had Scanderbeg [ 1405-1466} the most active defender of the Christian cause in the Balkans and the saviour of Christianity in Europe from the Othoman empire.
Counties like the U.S and Canada know very well these facts and for all those who are still making propaganda about Kosova as an islamic state, I should let them know and also suggest to stop hating and judging people by their race, belief or ehtnicity.
We the people of Republic of Kosova are very grateful for the U.S and Canadasupport and nobody will ever breake the strong ties that the Kosova people and American & canadian people have.
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-28 5:14:22 PM
By the way JP, the Republic of Kosova, is fully supported by NATO and EU and Kosova will be a member of NATO and EU even before Serbia that has been documented by the EU as well. as for the UN do you think we really care about comunists from Russia and Chinese vetos, no I will tell you why, Switzerland has just became a member of UN in 2002 after all those years it was a very strong state with economy and everything, you tell me what do the poor countries have who are members of U.N just some rethorics and bs, stop supporting terrorism, join the Republic of Kosova , the U.S and other EU countries in our fight against terrorism , Long Live USA , Long Live Canada.
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-28 5:23:11 PM
World news
Kosovo
Is Kosovo Serbia? We ask a historian
is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is
rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would
agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense.
History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo,
which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue.
What is true is that they ruled Kosovo for about 250 years, until the final Ottoman takeover in the mid-15th century. Churches and
monasteries remain from that period, but there is no more continuity between the medieval Serbian state and today's Serbia than
there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece.
Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their
own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb
rule, so "conquered" seems the right word.
But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after
1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the
second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006.
Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it
was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and
government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the
federal system.
Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that
process. Therefore, Kosovo has become an ex-Yugoslav state, as any historian could tell you.
· Noel Malcolm is a senior research fellow at All Souls College, Oxford. He is the author of Kosovo: A Short History
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-29 8:27:23 AM
Why support a muslim mafia micro state? Canada's best option is to ignore Kosovo and mind our own business. An option I would strongly suggest for the USA and the Euros. As Geo. Washington would say, "avoid foreign entanglements".
Posted by: Ton | 2008-02-29 12:02:40 PM
artan said: "We are building the bigest chatolic cathedral in the capital prishtina to show that Kosova is democratic multi cultural and civilized state."
sooo... are you using stones from all those Orthodox churches and monasteries that were burned down?
Posted by: Tom | 2008-02-29 12:11:23 PM
Tom:
Here's a true example from several years ago, which can be confirmed through NATO observer reports.
A couple of Muslim boys in Kosovo were cautioned not to swim in a river. Unfortunately, they did and one drowned.
When asked by his mother why they went into the river, the boy answered: “We were chased in by Serbian dogs."
Immediately, the word got out and the Muslim population rioted, damaging 32 Othodox churches in the area.
The regional NATO commander (Dutch, I believe) questioned the boy and determined he had been lying. That answer came after he asked the boy ‘how did you determine the dogs were Serbian."
That particular fact obviously went right past the Muslim mob.
Draw your own conclusions about the mob mentality and the rampant tribalism prevalent in that area.
Curiously, the new Kosovo flag carries the emblem used by the Albanian Waffen SS during WWII.
Posted by: set you free | 2008-02-29 12:35:56 PM
setyoufree
Yea it is funny how if it is Serbs doing the shooting, bombing, etc , then NATO or some other similar outfit shows up and bombs them to prevent “ethnic cleansing” but if the Serbs are victims (which happens more often than not) then it is just one of the other groups getting a little pay back.
This whole idea of recognizing Kosovo as a nation highlights what a bunch of hypocrites the Americans and Euros (in particular the UK) are. Ask them if they will now recognize the Serbs right to secede from Bosnia and they will reply that it is not allowed in the Dayton peace accords and there is no mechanism for the Serbs of Bosnia to secede. Mention the fact that there was no mechanism for the Albanians to secede from Serbia and they simply say that Kosovo is different. This is the very essence of hypocrisy.
Posted by: Tom | 2008-02-29 1:18:19 PM
ebt:
I agree. There is one Albanian state and this is an encorachement.
Tom:
Each one of the Balkan groups you described fought on the Axis side during WWII. Except for the Serbs, who have a history through the Orthodox Church of understanding that freedom is a God-given right.
All their neighbous, including Albania and Kosovo, have displayed a historical attraction to various types of fascism.
Milosivec was nothing more than a Communist Party apparatchik who exploited nationalist feelings for his own gain. The Serbian people, the only people in the area who fought for freedom and refused to be placed under the Nazi yoke, should not be punished for the crimes against humanity perpetrated by a post-Communist thug.
Posted by: Set you free | 2008-02-29 1:28:43 PM
Tom, you just showed your lack of knowledge about the situation in Kososovo, as per your question. "No we did not use the stones of the burnt churches because there are no burnt churches, they have all been rebuildt by albanian government and are in a better shape that they were before empty old buildings, on the opposite there are thousand of burnt mosques that the serb terrorist regime burnt down and they were never buildt.
Set you free" I do not know where you got that fairy tale about a boy and the dogs, you know shit about what happened little kids were killed by the serbs in the northern part and the serbs in north mitrovica used to burn albanian homes everyday, there are paramilitary serb forces who operate in that part and albanians can not move free or visit that part from the serb terrorists. stop using the word albanian muslim, i guess you did not read my comment about the religion facts in Kosova, if you didn`t read it again.
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-29 8:43:20 PM
Tom ,according to your name, I do not know if thats a fake name or maybe your real name is Vladimir, or Stojan, but you are saying that the U.S and UK are bunch of Hypocrites, who is the right state for you? communist Russia, china and vietnam or some other country? If you think they are not hypocrites you dont you go and live there, or maybe you are the hypocrite that is sayon shit about the countries that feed you and your family.
Posted by: artan | 2008-02-29 8:49:07 PM
"If the Canadian government does recognize Kosovo, the decision will have been made in Washington D.C., not Ottawa."
With Harper ? Without a doubt.
Posted by: Marc | 2008-02-29 9:29:27 PM
artan:
That particular drowning boy incident has been verified by NATO commanders in the area and demonstrates clearly the ‘destroy first and ask questions later' mentality that has no place in civilized society.
What about the other fact ... Kosovo's use of the Albanian Waffen SS symbol on their flag. To me, that speaks volumes about the current regime's philosophy.
Clinton made a mistake by shipping Afghani veterans into Kosovo, then launching an illegal NATO action (no NATO member was under attack) against the Communist MIlosevic regime.
Bush, I guess, is only following Clinton's mistaken lead on this one.
Curious. Why is it wherever there's conflict in the world, a Muslim population is involved? Darfur, Indonesia, Kosovo, Pakistan/India, Taliban in Afghanistan.
Posted by: set you free | 2008-02-29 9:45:51 PM
Artan said: "Tom ,according to your name, I do not know if thats a fake name or maybe your real name is Vladimir, or Stojan"
No, Tom is my real name. My past is so Anglo Saxon that my last name could be Smith. I have no Slavic blood in my veins. What is yours? Mohamed? Ataturk? Hamid? Mustafa? Ahmed?
This is not about choosing which country or system to follow, this is about being consistent, and telling people like the American government to stay home and mind their own business. No country or government feeds my family, I do. And I don’t want any of my money that I am forced to pay in taxes used to further the cause of a bunch of muslim mafia in Kosovo.
Posted by: Tom | 2008-02-29 9:58:26 PM
Set you free said: “Curious. Why is it wherever there's conflict in the world, a Muslim population is involved? Darfur, Indonesia, Kosovo, Pakistan/India, Taliban in Afghanistan”
You left out Philippines, Southern Thailand, Nigeria, Israel, Various bombings in Europe, Chechnya, Western China, Southern Sudan, Eastern Ethiopia, Somalia, Oppression of Christians in Palestinian controlled areas, rioting all over the world whenever someone makes fun of Mohamed. I could go on.
Posted by: Tom | 2008-02-29 10:08:03 PM
Tom:
from www.thereligionofpeace.com. An entire list of where Muslim populations assert their superiority by recorded killings of innocents.
It's all about Iraq, isn't it?
Yep, it's all about Iraq and...
India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Kabardino-Balkaria and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Argentina and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal
and the Maldives and...
...and pretty much wherever Muslims believe their religion tells them to:
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... nor follow
the religion of truth... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
Qur'an, Sura 9:29
Posted by: set you free | 2008-02-29 10:26:26 PM
See Artnan:
It's your attitude of supriority and blaming others for your self-inflicted misery that we despise.
Right there in your texts.
I'll be damned if I ever fall into a state of subjection to your ilk of losers.
Posted by: set you free | 2008-02-29 11:20:19 PM
Tom, no my name is not ataturk neither hamid or mustafa, my name is an ancient illyrian autoctone name that means "golden" and yours is an easy one tom like tom and jerry well that`s understandable.
There is no muslim mafia in Kosovo, I guess Tom has won alot of night out at the movies tickets to watch hollywood movies about mafias, no tom the reality is different, Kosova is in the heart of Europe and not in Asia.
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 8:42:51 AM
Set you free, why are you trying to include Kosovo with countries like iraq, afganistan, uzbekistan, sorry but as you can see kosova does not end with a stan, you can not say canadastan same with Kosovo, ask any NATO troops who are in kosovo or any international who has been there, and you will then see that Kosovo is more christian than any other country in Kosovo, the muslims are the mos moderate people you can find more moderate than many other christian fanatics like you, tell me what do you have against someone being a muslim, you are quoting Qurans verses, what are you trying to say with that, that your smart or somth,than you read holy books, that your friend is a gay or lesbian priest or maybe you are one of them. I want to make this clear to you, the Kosovo independence process is done , de facto de jure, it is not just the Bush government who supports that, but it is Obama, Mccain, mrs clinton and all america including the most democratic countries in the world, and that is the truth that shatters all your intentions to link Kosovo as an muslim extremist state, the danger does not come from that state, but it comes from comunists and terrorists who burn american flags like serbs,and who attact their embassies, along with Russians and Chinese.
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 8:54:55 AM
set you free, it is not about my attitudem it is about your lack of knowledge, that irritates people who know the facts and have been the part of the process and have experienced the war, stop reading books and watching movies, get a life and grow up.
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 8:58:40 AM
artan said: "There is no muslim mafia in Kosovo"
No mafia in Kosovo? Are you serious?? Are you drunk???
“The post-war period of 1999 was the very beginning of the International Police presence in Kosovo. During this time Kosovo saw a tremendous surge in revenge killings and ethnic violence.” http://www.unmikonline.org/civpol/statistics.htm
Kosovo Crime Wave
International officials in Kosovo seem powerless to stop a dramatic increase in crime.
By Nehat Islami in Pristina http://iwpr.net/?p=bcr&s=f&o=249549&apc_state=henibcr2001
Kosovo "freedom fighters" financed by organised crime
By Michel Chossudovsky
10 April 1999
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/apr1999/kla-a10.shtml
Kosovo drug mafia supply heroin to Europe http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/balkans
I google mafia & kosovo and I get over 300,000 hits, I google crime and kosovo and I get over 500,000 hits.
I have spent a lot of time in Europe including some time in the Balkans and Kosovo is no where near the heart of Europe.
Posted by: Tom | 2008-03-01 9:05:26 AM
artan said: "Kosovo independence process is done , de facto de jure,"
Sorry artan, nothing is done. History has not ended.
Posted by: Tom | 2008-03-01 9:09:03 AM
Tom, the reason why you find hits in google about mafia, is because of morons like you that sta 24 hours posting propaganda, funded by KGB and chinese inteligence, you send me an article that has been written by the last name Chosudovsky well thats understandable, you said enough, maybe you can also include reports from Ivanov, medvedev, milosevic, arkan and sesejl maybe that will help you. By the Way none of these reports say muslim mafia, it can say mafia including albanians and others, so what are you saying, that your country does not have crimes, or mafia,. u dumb ass do you know how many crimes and killings happen in every democratic world country including. U.S, Canada, Europe accoriding to the same statistics, Kosovo is the country where there are less crimes than any other place in the world, and that is true, its very seldom to hear that somebody has been killed in one month, whereas in serbia and other region states there are crimes, rapes killings everyday, that does not have to do anything with politics you moron, that is because of social and economical issues, so once again you failed with your propaganda,
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 9:14:23 AM
Kosovo is in the heart of Europe, geographically and politically.
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 9:16:56 AM
Now I am a moron... hmm... Personal attacks are usually a sign of how weak your argument/logic is.
If you notice one of my links is the United Nations. I suppose they are in on the propaganda against Kosovo? Seems unlikely.
Here is one that says Mafia and Kosovo in the same sentence. I am only using the term “mafia” to indicate “organized crime”.
"The United Nations Contributed to the Establishment of a Mafia-State in Kosovo"
by Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8183
and now I am a “dumb ass” another indication of how weak your argument is.
You seldom hear of a murder in Kosovo??? How drunk are you artan? Read what the UN has to say about murders there. It says there were over 200 murders in 2001. That is a high rate of murder for a country of 2,000,000.
Posted by: tom | 2008-03-01 9:32:51 AM
Here is another good article indicating what a mistake it was to allow Kosovo to launch itself into nationhood.
"A system to enforce imperial power will only be resisted
Far from rehabilitating liberal interventionism, the Kosovo experience has exposed the fatal flaws that lie at its heart" http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/28/kosovo.iraq
I especially like the posts that go with the story.
Posted by: Tom | 2008-03-01 9:44:18 AM
Here is an excellent article by William Lind, whom I doubt is a Serb patsy.
"Kosovo: Fools Rush In by William S. Lind"
http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=12430
Posted by: Tom | 2008-03-01 9:49:27 AM
artan:
I have given examples of texts from the Qur'an which clearly states its intention to parasitically live off the labours of others and the justification of those oppressions with the claim of superiority.
No such texts or tenets commanding followers to subjugate other human beings exists in the Orthodox church or any other Christian denomination. Christianity is about humility, not a blueprint on how your tribe can control others.
Kosovo, like any other state with a predominantly Muslim population, will be unable to sustain itself, since the work ethic is a foreign concept in Islam, something that's beneath the dignity of your delusional smugly superior attitude.
Posted by: set you free | 2008-03-01 10:13:53 AM
tom:
Thanks for the Lind article.
Kosovo is nothing but and example of Albanian expansionism and Clinton's illegal use of NATO (there was no direct threat from the Soviet Union at that time) was criminal.
Parasites cannot live without hosts and it seems the US and the EU are making promises of future support they will be unable to provide.
Posted by: set you free | 2008-03-01 10:55:09 AM
Tom m this is not a personal attack and my arguments are not week these arguments are the same of the most civilized countries in this planet and are very strong indeed. I said you are a Moron and I repeat you are the bigest Moron I have ever seen posting any blogs or replies, United Nations know shit about Europe, those European Countries who know the facts about Kosova they have already recognized its independence, the UN memmbers from asia, like China of course they know shit about the place and you can expect what reports they can give,, Michel Chosudovski, arent you surprised why he wrote about that,, read his last name again, and accept the new reality.
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 1:09:36 PM
Serbs still belive in UN, they think they will save them and stop independence, well Kosova does nt give a damn about UN, we give a damn about EU and the united nationas in Europe not in Asia or Cuba,, so This is Europe my friend wake up and look at the map, stop dreaming about UN that make monotonous speeches that nobody listens to them, here are two things you have to remember these two words: USA and EU, the other one I can include is NATO.
Posted by: artan | 2008-03-01 1:13:24 PM
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