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Thursday, February 14, 2008
Dissenters to descend on NYC
Make your prediction now about how much mainstream media coverage the Heartland Institute's big International Conference on Climate Change, slated to take place early next month in New York, will receive.
Given that the conference's primary, politically incorrect purpose is "to bring together the world’s leading scientists, economists, and policy experts to explain the often-neglected 'other side' of the climate change debate," I'm guessing the gathering will be completely ignored, even though it's being held in the news media capital of the world.
Posted by Terry O'Neill on February 14, 2008 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Does anyone actually believe that climate change by humans is not possible or isn't occurring? We're talking about Planet Earth and the fact that over 6 billion people, vast development of land, lots of emissions spewed into the air....that's gotta have some type of effect! Not rocket science here. If we can develop such advanced technology we sure can do something that can make the planet more sustainable. It will cost a lot but so does everything we do.
In my opinion we should be looking at population control and encouraging people to reduce waste as a start...
Posted by: Tim Trudeau | 2008-02-14 1:34:35 PM
Western countries have had declining birth rates for decades and much tougher environmental regulations than anywhere else on the planet.
If you want to talk about population control, you should be preaching in S America, Africa and Asia.
If you want to talk about reducing pollution, again, talk to those countries that give a green light to polluters like China.
If you think we in North America need to reduce our population even further, may I humbly suggest that you show some leadership here and martyr yourself.
Epsi
Posted by: Epsilon | 2008-02-14 1:43:24 PM
Tim asked: "Does anyone actually believe that climate change by humans is not possible or isn't occurring?"
I'm afraid that I can't answer that, unless I spend the rest of my life in jail for disagreeing with David Suzuki's position on climate change.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-02-14 1:55:46 PM
Good points you made. I can guarantee that I'll die someday! Yeah I totally agree that we need to help other parts of the world realize that population control will contribute to their well being. There's still the culture that having lots of children will mean a wealthier future for a family but it never seems to work that way. Sort of like the city where I live where those living in poverty seem to have the most kids and keep on having more.
Some who are on social assistance think they'll be getting richer by having more kids but that's never the case! Now I don't want to sound like I'm being God but I feel everyone has to think of others and the planet as a whole.
Now you're right about some other large countries and polluting. We need to help them not make the mistakes that we made in the past. Actually there is so much evidence where I live with all of the mines here that left disasters and went bankrupt.
Now our tax dollars are going to clean up and if not our water wouldn't be drinkable and fishing and hunting would be out of the question.
Posted by: Tim Trudeau | 2008-02-14 2:01:23 PM
Hi Zebulon,
Let us know where you stand and why.
Posted by: Tim Trudeau | 2008-02-14 2:05:22 PM
"In my opinion we should be looking at population control"
"I can guarantee that I'll die someday!"
Why wait? If your so convinced you and your moronic buddies are ruining the world, put your actions where your mouth is and simply jump off a cliff.
I mean, if your so sure take a giant leap for planet earth and end it all.
Please just take a few of your raging, shrieking, moronic friends with you.
Posted by: deepblue | 2008-02-14 2:11:43 PM
"we should be looking at population control..", so Tim are you willing to remove yourself for the cause? When the birth rate in the West and industrial world is below the maintenance level and their populations are ageing quickly, this claim is ridiculous. The old population bomb claim died long long ago when it proved to be as false as to-day's man made global warming claim.
That the climate changes is not news. There has always been climate change. Most of Canada was once tropical and then there was at least one ice age and maybe more. All of this before man made pollution and industry. The arrogance that man is going to stop climate change is beyond words. What we have is a scam for some to grab more power and money. Every time I see or hear someone pushing the buying of "carbon credits", it reminds me of a time many centuries ago when people were told by the pope that they could buy forgiveness for their sins. It is the same thing to-day with someone else profiting while idiots throw away their money to feel oh so good.
No doubt this conference will be ignored by MSM. It should be mandatory for every head of state to attend along with all our premiers.
Posted by: Alain | 2008-02-14 2:12:37 PM
There are two ways to look at environmental remediation, Tim. Taxes or regulation.
Yes, our tax dollars can pay for it or we put in place tougher regulations and make industry pay for it. SInce industry is more efficient than government, it is in our interest to make industry pay for environmental remediation as a cost of doing business. THose old mine sites are legacies. No new mine in Canada would ever be allowed to pollute like that.
To continue with the mining company example, a minimg company will prefer to locate in a jurisdiction where no environmental compliance costs are required. Like China. This is not the Company's fault so don't blame them. They are only behaving rationally as they are meant to behave which means maximize shareholder value and obey the law.
Trouble is, by locating in China, they can compete more favourably against existing Canadian based companies that are obeying the law, paying good wages and paying taxes.
So by buying products in China, we are only making things worse.
If you want to help the Chinese, the best thing to do is not buy crap made in China and scream like hell when they ship us poisoned food and posioned baby toys.
To tax the hell out of Canadian companies and then send it to China to subsidize companies that are already kicking the living crap out of us is wrong, wrong wrong!
Epsi
Posted by: Epsilon | 2008-02-14 2:55:54 PM
I'm braving a Suzuki prison term to come out and say man made global warming is total crap. The evidence against it is a mountain.
Tell me, Trudeau, how exactly does man cause global warming? The dirt in the air would block the sun's rays and cause it to cool would it not? Greenhouse effects work both ways.
If you want the secret - follow the the $$$. The Kyoto Accord means that money is removed from industry(The productive) and put into the hands of unproductive parasites (gov't). Stalin did the same thing to his part of the world. Oddly enough, it resulted in shrinking productivity and a bloated gov't. Suzuki is first and foremost a communist. Any system that leads society to communism will be fine by Suzuki. Why do think the lefties all support it? It certainly isn't because they understand the science or economics.
Posted by: Veteran | 2008-02-14 4:25:30 PM
I say that the first climate change internment camp should be established at Slocan, in BC's West Kootenany region. I can see it now: The David Suzuki Slocan Internment Camp.
Slocan of course is where he and his family were interred during WWII. I'm sure he has fond memories of the experience.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-02-14 4:44:11 PM
...question - didn't these silly folks already meet somewhere last month?
Posted by: tomax7 | 2008-02-14 10:17:49 PM
Tim Trudeau wrote: “Does anyone actually believe that climate change by humans is not possible or isn't occurring? We're talking about Planet Earth and the fact that over 6 billion people, vast development of land, lots of emissions spewed into the air....that's gotta have some type of effect!”
Your passion is compelling, Tim, but also useless. It’s also very unscientific. Many of the most famous prophets of climate change have been publicly debunked, the now-infamous “hockey stick” graph being but one example. A single volcanic eruption spews more emissions into the sky than every car, furnace, and gas mine on Earth. Do humans have an effect? Yes. Is it measurable? Not reliably, not yet.
Tim Trudeau wrote: “Not rocket science here. If we can develop such advanced technology we sure can do something that can make the planet more sustainable. It will cost a lot but so does everything we do.”
This is a logical fallacy. A is not proof of B.
Tim Trudeau wrote: “In my opinion we should be looking at population control and encouraging people to reduce waste as a start...”
What did you have in mind? Zyklon-B?
P.S. What an ugly name you have.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2008-02-14 11:03:51 PM
Wonder of hordes of Suzuki followers will try to crash the conference to make some citizen's arrests?
Posted by: James Goneaux | 2008-02-15 8:01:44 AM
Maybe we're not seeing the logic in Suzuki's thinking. I think we'd be better off in one of his concentration camps because, once Kyoto was implemented, there'd be no jobs to go to. While this would be a miserable existence in one of his camps, it wouldn't be much better on the outside.
He'd actually be doing us a favor: we could grow our own crops in the camps. We wouldn't have to worry about losing weight because of starvation. And no more robbery because we wouldn't be able to own anything.
Ah yes, famines and concentration camps. That's the future...if you were living in eastern Europe in the 1930s! That seems to be the direction Suzuki is looking.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-02-15 8:16:36 AM
What's that biblical quote about executing seers who get predictions wrong...
Posted by: James Goneaux | 2008-02-15 9:53:09 AM
What if? What if Tim's parents had practiced what he preaches? If only we could keep our supposedly irrational denial of man-made climate change up long enough that the population zealots fade away through attrition. What the world needs now, is love, sweet love. It's the only thing that there's just too little of....
Posted by: momathome | 2008-02-15 11:28:48 AM
The possession of Zyklon-B by David Suzuki has got to be stopped!!
It is well known that the ashes would cause global warming by disallowing the sun's rays to escape the earth's surface...never mind. I can't even write this with a straight face.
Posted by: Veteran | 2008-02-15 4:48:57 PM
Does Suzuki realize that his nonsensical rhetoric about throwing critics of climate change into jail is seriously damaging the effort against it?
Does he care?
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-02-15 5:24:42 PM
Tim Trudeau said
"Does anyone actually believe that climate change by humans is not possible or isn't occurring? "
Lousy leading question.
"We're talking about Planet Earth and the fact that over 6 billion people, vast development of land, lots of emissions spewed into the air....that's gotta have some type of effect! "
True. And so do beavers (vast development), caribou (emissions), etc. Every creature has an effect. Even the earth's inner processes affect its climate. The question is not whether we are having an effect. The question is to what degree is the effect and can we quantify it accurately...um no!
It's a non-linear chaotic system.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-02-15 6:56:15 PM
Wow, can't believe what some of you have said. A point I want to make is that nobody really had a good argument with good reasons. Many of you seem to believe that climate change as a result of human activity is entirely untrue rather than maybe saying that predictions and studies overestimate predictions.
Just to add to what I wrote before, Weather records have been kept for at least 150 years in many locations. Why do most show drastic average temperature rises within the last 20 to 30 years in most locations around the world. This has especially been noticed in arctic regions. The spike in temperature hardly seems natural. Yes I know a volcanic eruption can change things quickly too...making the earth colder. Over millions of years it is likely that the Earth's orbit can change a bit to affect climate drastically for living things but for it to happen this quickly, something different is going on than in the past.
Alain stated that old mines are legacies and that no new mine would be able to pollute like the old ones. Well I wish it were that way! I can think of at least 5 mines within 5km of where I live that went bankrupt in the 1990s, didn't clean up their messes and left toxic tailings (waste) to be able to flow into creeks, rivers and lakes. Now the Ontario government is spending millions for cleanup and the work only just got started a year ago.
Posted by: Tim Trudeau | 2008-02-16 2:30:52 AM
Tim T said
"Many of you seem to believe that climate change as a result of human activity is entirely untrue rather than maybe saying that predictions and studies overestimate predictions. "
Um... Didn't I just say that?
"The question is not whether we are having an effect. The question is to what degree is the effect and can we quantify it accurately."
As for your question
"Why do most show drastic average temperature rises within the last 20 to 30 years in most locations around the world. "
I believe I answered that as well.
"It's a non-linear chaotic system."
That's what non-linear chaotic systems look like.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2008-02-16 5:31:07 AM
Tim: why don't you stop emphasizing the problem and add some solutions? It might help your case.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-02-16 6:29:07 AM
Has any one bothered to look into the relationship between the earth's shifting magnetic influence and the heat of the earth? They are directly related.
Man does not cause global warming and even if he did, socialism isn't going to solve anything.
Posted by: Veteran | 2008-02-16 1:00:57 PM
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