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Sunday, October 07, 2007
“Poor” Family Owns Home, Business, Etc.
So, in a typically cynical bit of sappy and brainless emotional indulgence, the Democrats recruited some twelve year-old kid to deliver their Saturday radio address. His name is Graeme Frost and his family is from Maryland. Predictably, he told a sob story (written for him by Senate staffers) about how his hard working parents need other taxpayers to pay for his health coverage.
Then icwhatudo on Free Republic decided to pull some records.
So, to summarize –what he found out about this poor and needy family. It:
- Sends their kids to an expensive private school.
- Own a commercial building which was purchased for $190,000 in 1999. Even using modest figures, it would have to be worth at least $300,000 today.
- Owns a 3000 square foot home, in an area where a 2000 square foot home recently sold for $500,000.
Indeed, working from a Baltimore Sun article on the subject – which mentions that their mortgage payment is $1200 – we can guess that their mortgage on the house is roughly $200,000.
In other words – taking into account the value of the home, the value of the father’s business, the value of the commercial property they own, and so forth minus their mortgage and whatever they might owe on the commercial property (and other sundry debts) an educated guess would suggest that this family has a net worth of somewhere in the neighbourhood of $500,000.
And they want the rest of the American people to foot their bill for their health care?
Oh, and since a picture is worth a thousand words - check out their kitchen.
Does that look like the home of someone who can't "afford" health care and needs everyone else to pay for it for them?
Posted by Adam T. Yoshida on October 7, 2007 in International Politics | Permalink
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» SCHIPping deception to the masses from Brutally Honest
First comes the setup:Democrats are getting a good ride this week out of President Bush's looming veto of the children's health insurance bill, and they're not afraid to tug at the heart strings a bit to play out this issue.Earlier [Read More]
Tracked on 2007-10-07 9:01:35 AM
» Private School and A Large House, But No Health Insurance? from The American Pundit
Meet the Frost Family of Baltimore. 3 years ago the Frosts were involved in a bad traffic accident that involved expensive medical bills; those bills would be payed for by taxpayer-subsidized program SCHIP. If youre not familiar with SCHIP, it&... [Read More]
Tracked on 2007-10-07 7:34:57 PM
We, in Canada are paying all the medical costs for people a lot richer than those folks. In fact we are paying all the medical costs for everyone in Canada whether they are citizens or not.
That is why many provinces are going broke and why there are huge waiting lists for services. That is why so many of our best health care professionals are leaving Canada to find a more sensible place to practice.
That is also partly why Canadians are becoming obese and less healthy, because they can get 'fixed' for free.
The path to anything collectivist is strait downhill.
Posted by: John | 2007-10-07 9:19:36 AM
But wait! There's no satellite dish on the house.
Surely that must qualify them to be living a sub-standard existence.
I recall several years ago a woman in the Toronto area was collecting welfare for her and her kids. She was living in a >500K home, unemcumbered.
The welfare people said that they could not take assets into consideration. Only income.
It is to weep!
Posted by: atric | 2007-10-07 9:22:47 AM
The "poor" seem to have VCRs, at least one automobile, kitchen appliances - not to mention that smokers are often the "poor". Then there are the dopers and drug users who are also "poor".
Our grandparents who lived through the Great Depression can tell us about actual poverty.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 9:26:33 AM
>"check out their kitchen."
John Denver LIVES!!!
Posted by: Speller | 2007-10-07 10:18:13 AM
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 10:22:50 AM
Well they are poor - by Ontario standards. They don't have a maid and a butler. They lack both a cottage in Muskoka AND a condo in Florida. Toronto people must be astounded at how people can live like that.
Of course by Ontario standards, even those begging in the streets can have cars and homes. There is no actual poverty anywhere in Ontario. Therefore in the future their pleas are to be ignored. They can blame their idiot mayor and the Great McGuinty for their situation.
Geez that does look like John Denver!
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-10-07 10:32:16 AM
AH! You were referring to the kitchen pic!
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 10:41:02 AM
Well, by Zeb's standards, I must be dirt poor. No maids no butlers no condos or cottages anywhere.
And by the way, the idiot mayor you refer to is not the mayor of Ontario. He is of the centre of the universe, AKA Toronto. Don't judge the rest of the Province by the ways of that city.
And yes, It does look a lot like Denver, who by the way was just another smelly hippie cashing in on the fad.
Posted by: atric | 2007-10-07 11:04:10 AM
Maybe so, but Denver did write some great songs.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 11:56:36 AM
Disagree, OBC. But what the heck. "Music" is in the ear of the beholder.
Posted by: atric | 2007-10-07 3:35:16 PM
Rocky Mountain High
I'm Leavin' On A Jet Plane
How Can I Leave You Again
Around & Around
My favourite JD tunes. Many others are decent as well. But as you say - it's a matter of taste.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 4:06:31 PM
Even the poorest Ontarian looks down on Albertans. Must be something in the air.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-10-07 4:14:41 PM
More facts about this family: "They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work."
Wow! What leeches! They should have NO assets whatsoever before they deserve ANY assistance with medical bills. It's the AMERICAN way! You must be in abject poverty before we help, and then ... maybe ...
Posted by: Lol | 2007-10-07 4:52:35 PM
If there are any brains in the GOP, this is already being turned into a campaign commercial.
Posted by: Doug | 2007-10-07 4:55:20 PM
Two people earning $45,000 a year? Obviously high school drop-outs with few skills. If that's what they chose for themselves, too bad. Others don't have to pay for their poor choices.
And 4 children??? If they can't afford 4, they should have stopped at 2. Again, they expect others to support their choices? Too bad for them.
They may not have health insurance, but for dire need, the emergency room is obligated by law to treat them on the spot in EVERY US hospital.
I have little sympathy for them.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 5:19:14 PM
I'm with you, obc. The kid would have been better off dying. The parents, if they really cared, would have sold their home and found a new place to live while their kids were in intensive care to pay the bills. And yeah, if the parents are too dumb to not earn any more money, let the whole family die!
It's the compassionate conservatie way!!!
Posted by: Lol | 2007-10-07 5:22:06 PM
Are you a total moron?
Read the post again. They made choices - let them live with them. Maybe they should have 18 kids because everyone else has some sort of "moral" obligation to support their family.
Socialist thinking has really screwed up your values!
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 5:25:04 PM
I'm still with you obc! The parents made bad choices. Lots of them. Which is why their kids should be punished for those choices by being denied health care. If you're unlucky enough to be born to parents who make bad decisions, then your brain trauma is just the price you have to pay (after all, the bill is all about health coverage for the KIDS of parents who make bad choices). Don't expect the rest of us to help you.
It's the compassionate conservatie way!!!
Posted by: Lol | 2007-10-07 5:31:13 PM
"It's the compassionate conservatie way!!!"
What kind of sickness does it take to pervert a mind into believing it is your god given right to have me or anyone else to pay for your healthcare?
You know what you freaking moron, I want HD TV and I want you to pay for it.
I mean what the hell, why not, you assholes want everything else paid for by the government.
Posted by: deepblue | 2007-10-07 5:32:41 PM
. . . and where's your compassion for the one million Ontarians that have no health insurance because they have no access to a primary doctor who can them send them off to the specialists they may need?
Great success - that Canadian medical system. It's FREE - if you can access it, of course.
And even those who can access it, they have the right to get on a waiting list, but not get immediate care. Unless your name is Jean Chretien - then you are treated within 24 hours. Or if your name is Jack Layton, you can get immediate hernia treatments at a PRIVATE health care establishment - but not for regular Canadians.
NO - they must cross the US border to be seen quickly, if they have the cash. All others, hurry up & get in line and wait, hoping you don't die before it's your turn. Or just suffer with the pain until the doctor calls one year later.
That's socialist health care for you. NO THANKS! I'm in the US this week, getting my needs seen to - and fattening the US economy instead of the Canadian one because socialists like you want this crappy system to continue. SHEEEESH!
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 5:37:47 PM
Right on, Deep Blue!!! Why shoud **I** have to pay for the health care of these kids!!! After all, it is NOT a God-given right. In fact, God says, "I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children". If the parents are fuck-ups, then the kids DESERVE to suffer for it.
It's the Christian conservative way!
Posted by: Lol | 2007-10-07 5:37:56 PM
If the kids suffer, caring parents should give them up for adoption - not expect others to slave to support their offspring. There's no shortage of available families - but NOOOOOO! Socialists like you want to produce as many kids as you want - and obligate others to fork over the cash to give them medical care.
Hey - maybe we should be forced to feed & clothe them too! Why should these kids suffer for their parents' bad choices on that score also??
What maroons socialists like you are!
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 5:42:31 PM
Do you see any children suffering asshole?
Provide me the link that shows the pile of dead and suffering children.
Apart from a democratic ad that is.
You people are laughable.
Posted by: deepblue | 2007-10-07 5:44:20 PM
Right on, ocd!!! The parents are losers, so under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should we feed and clothe the kids!!! If the parents can't or won't, too bad for the kids!!! And if the parents won't give them up, that's the KIDS' problem, not mine. It's my RIGHT to not do anything to help the helpless (the children, that is).
It's the compassionate conservative way!!!
Posted by: Lol | 2007-10-07 5:46:27 PM
"the pile of dead and suffering children"
You can start that list with that dead native child from Manitoba whose health care was not provided because the Feds and the province squabbled so long about whose obligation it was to pay for his care that he died while they sorted out that issue.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 5:47:30 PM
That's the problem, Deepblue. The kids DIDN'T suffer. And all because INNOCENT TAXPAYERS were FORCED to pay for their medical care. What the fuck is that? If the parents can't or won't pay, let their misserable whelps just die. One less socialist kid to fuck up the world a bit more. Too bad he lived.
Posted by: Lol | 2007-10-07 5:48:34 PM
Now you can see how socialism so warps the mind that further discussion is pointless.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 5:49:57 PM
And the one example the asshole does drag out is from within the archaic, crumbling, socialist Canadian system.
I'm sure more money and government intervention will be the answer.
Live long and prosper, and enjoy the benefits of American system obc.
Posted by: deepblue | 2007-10-07 6:03:24 PM
This is not my first US visit, deepblue. The care here is superb! No union thugs in charge - just private capitalism at work to my great satisfaction.
Not to mention my money is spent on nice hotels & restaurants, feeding the US economy some more- all deducted from my taxes too! And with the dollar at par with the loonie, you can be sure I'll be shopping a lot - feeding the US economy again.
Those loons in the federal government have no idea (or don't care) how much such visits actually cost the Canadian economy. And I am one of hundreds of thousands! When I crossed the border, the agent asked me why I was entering. When I told him, he smiled knowingly - having heard the same story countless times before.
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 6:25:27 PM
. . . and the best part? No chance of accidentally turning to the CBC as I flip through the 75 cable channels here at my hotel!
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-07 7:16:41 PM
This is all too complicated.Let's just keep picking on folks that drink ,smoke ,or are obese. They are much easier targets.Far more enjoyable and no tugs at the heartstrings.
Posted by: peterj | 2007-10-07 7:22:56 PM
Well as I see it, the family obviously cannot afford to maintain a protective environment for their kids and as such should be removed into social services for their own protection. I wonder how many Social services complaints they have gotten about this family. Maybe in a neighborhood of million dollar homes their half million dollar home seems "welfare".
This is just like the Dems and the leftist media trucking out that fake army ranger to talk about the crimes of his fellow soldiers. Of course he was a basic training washout and most likely cant even spell Iraq not to mention ever setting foot in Iraq.
I hope the Dems keep up this charade of deceit, and the media finally reports the truth about how underhanded they are.
Posted by: Sean Whelan | 2007-10-07 7:52:36 PM
[...] And I am one of hundreds of thousands! [...]
And that's A-lot...
I beleive it's a great thing some people are going south for their medical problems. It's helping our canadian health system. One other thing that would help Canada is if obc could stay there.
Posted by: Marc | 2007-10-07 8:25:45 PM
Something does not compute. The original post talked about sending the kids to an expensive private school and owning a building that has at least gained $100,000 in value since purchase. Where did they get the money to do those things on a combined salary of $45,000 per year? I realize that medical insurance is expensive but are the payments not income tax deductible? I don't get it.
Posted by: DML | 2007-10-07 8:36:28 PM
Oops. I just answered my own question by checking David Frum's Corner Blog in the NR. The school costs $20,000 per year. Too much for me to repeat here. Check it out guys and gals and have a good giggle.
Posted by: DML | 2007-10-07 9:04:48 PM
payment from the DEMS I suppose. Another one of those white envelopes made so famous by our friendly neighbourhood liberal party.
Posted by: Sean Whelan | 2007-10-07 9:07:09 PM
Give poor John a break. The residuals from his song rights have probably run out by now, and if Annie finds out that he's fathered a second family, he's gunna need all the health care he can get! What were John Bobbit's hospital bills anyway?? Ouch!
Posted by: U.B. | 2007-10-08 4:48:16 AM
Good work trashing lol. What an ultra-maroon.
The question of their income is indeed interesting. They own a business and yet "Neither gets health insurance through work." So the business they own won't provide them health insurance. Time to go on strike I'd say.
They earn only 45k but spend 20k on private school. And pay a mortgage, and taxes, and buy food etc. bzzt. fzzzzz. My bullshit detector just blew up because unlike lefty bullshit meters, whichy operate solely on emotion, mine has a math and logic circuit.
One of the blogs that did the initial expose had a commenter who calculated that their medical insurance would have cost $450-600 per month. Call it $6,000.00 per year. I'll bet their property taxes are higher than that. So kids, we want a nice house and you little shits can suck it up and suffer when you get sick. Like Chris Rock said, rub in some Robitussin and walk it off.
But none of this is news, so why waste our time? Headline: "Lefty Liars Contrive Pile of Easily Detected Lies to Vilify Bush" is not something new, it's old, very old.
Posted by: BlacquesJacquesShellacques | 2007-10-08 9:00:43 AM
'Even the poorest Ontarian looks down on Albertans.'
Pike you are an idiot. Until now I have been reading your anti-Eastern crap with amusement.
You just display your personal bias and arrogance with comments such as this.
I live in Ontario and would love to live in the West. My wife's family ties make that untenable. I have two brothers living in Alberta, I envy them that. Personally I find B.C. one of the most beautiful places I have ever been.
You insinuate a Western superiority. Why? Because the majority of Albertans are conservative in their voting patterns? I am one of many Easterners that thinks Liberalism is a disease.
I worked for the Reform party when it was a joke here in Ontario. Mike Harris was by far the best Premier this province has ever had. I haven't seen any Western premier that could carry his jockstrap.
Just because we seem to have a few million misguided voters in our part of Canada does not make us less nationalistic.
The strength of Canada like any country or group is the sum of its parts. Unfortunately it also includes one track morons like you.
P.S. I find the demise of the Western Standard in print form unfortunate. I hope it can be continued online somehow. Good luck to Ezra and associates in any future endeavours!
Posted by: Paul | 2007-10-08 9:05:36 AM
I think it's a great thing that families at the Frost's level of income, and those below, can receive "free" health care for their kids. Actually I think we all should pay for health care through our taxes.
I see the paper is trying to stur up outrage against SCHIP and Democrats, but all the people they are trying to stur up would find their kids qualify for health care too. The owners/publishers of this newspaper wouldn't though.
Posted by: Kevink | 2007-10-08 9:41:41 AM
Mark Styne writes of this:
This is apparently the new definition of "working families":
Had it not been for a federal health insurance program tailored for working families such as hers - ones lacking the income to purchase private health insurance - Frost is certain that she and her husband would be buried under a mound of unpaid medical bills... She and her husband have priced private health insurance, but they say it would cost them more per month than their mortgage - about $1,200 a month. Neither parent has health insurance through work.
Insureblog, also demonstrating more journalistic initiative than Mr Hay Brown, checked out that last bit:
A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.
Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That's almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn't anyone bother to check the facts?
Posted by: obc | 2007-10-08 6:24:23 PM
Give me your children and I will have them for life.
First, the education system and now the health-care system.
Will the kumbaya, one world government crowd ever give up despite mounting evidence their system has failed everywhere it's been tried?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-10-08 7:10:02 PM
Paul, you have in backwards: anyone who votes or supports conversatism is less nationalistic. We are a Liberal country, both fundamentally and politically. Universal health care, peace keeping, the charter of rights, these things are Canadian. We are respected around the world for these things and how independant we are for not becoming even more Americanized than we are. Just because a few weak minded individuals get brainwashed into conservative ideals, does not mean that the majority of Canadians are conservative. 70% voted against Steve W. Harper in the last election, and that says it all. As for Mike Harris, you have to be kidding. The guy was an idiot, and set Ontario back ten years. Thanks goodness the Honourable Mr. McGuinty was elected to get Ontario back on track, and he will continue this for another four years as he will get another majority this Wednesday.
Posted by: lefty_99 | 2007-10-08 7:11:56 PM
What province do you live in?
I cannot recall any option on my ballot where I would vote AGAINST a candidate.
My ballot only had options of candidates I could vote FOR.
Seems to me Harper got more votes FOR than any other party ... therefore he earned the right to form government.
Too bad your enslave-the-masses option will continue losing ground.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-10-08 7:26:52 PM
Wow SYF, you really are an idiot. I also find myself having to teach you something, so here it goes. We have one ultra right wing party and four major left leaning parties. The four parties got a combined 70% of the vote, therefore those people rejected the ridiculous, and wrong values of the con-servatives. That is why we need to change our electoral system. We should do what many other countries do and that is after the first election, the top two parties would compete in a run-off. In this last election, it would have been down to the Liberals and the con-servatives. All the Green and NDP supporters, along with most of the Bloc supporters, would then vote for the Liberals giving them a majority. I believe this will happen because there is already a movement occuring of people wanted electoral change (there is referendum on this matter in the Ontario election on Wed), and the when the federal Liberals get back in power after the next election, they may try to implement this system. That should guarantee a Liberal majority until our deaths, which is the way it should be.
Posted by: lefty_99 | 2007-10-08 7:38:18 PM
Let me see if I understand this situation.
They have a several hundred thousand dollar house, but they cannot provide their children with health care.
I pay over $700.00 @ month for my son, my wife and me. I don't own a $450,000.00 house.
What strikes me here is the willingness of liberals to use these people for their purposes and act shocked and outraged when the people they use are questioned. These people aren't poor. They've made choices. They chose an expensive house. They chose NOT to protect their children. They chose to have 4 children. They chose to work jobs that pay them less than $11 @ hour average. I've chosen to protect my family. I've chosen a less expensive home.
Posted by: libocrat | 2007-10-10 9:32:01 AM
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