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Tuesday, August 28, 2007

War Museum Controversy

War museum to re-word controversial WWII display:

Posted by Winston on August 28, 2007 in Canadian Politics, Current Affairs, Military | Permalink


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Those who actually want to "bitterly contest" the morality of the bombing naturally felt this was a defeat - and so, it must be said, did a large crowd of "war is hell" folks who are adamantly militarist but still do want an honest portrayal of history... [Read More]

Tracked on 2008-11-05 8:09:30 PM


The idea that in the 'good vs evil' scenario where one commenter alludes to the poor innocent German child or house wife who died under our bombing raids somehow renders us not good, is insane.

German civilians who died at the hands of Canadians and the allies were simply victims of their OWN evil regime. There is nothing that can be done about that. That is why they call war 'hell'.

We now try to fight wars in the politically correct way of not actually killing anyone unless they are pointing a gun right at our soldiers. That is why the war in Afghanistan will go on forever as will the war in Iraq.

You cannot win a war that you are unable to fight in a way that can win. You MUST demoralize the enemy by killing so many them and destroying so much of what matters to them that they simply surrender. That is how wars have always been fought and won in the past.

You must make a war not worth it for the enemy. Anything else will only encourage them as we encourage our Muslim enemies right now by continually giving in their never-ending outrages over the slightest of matters.

Give our current enemies the opportunity and they will kill as many of our innocents as they possibly can as they did on 9-11.

The plaques on future monuments may well read like this.

"We had few modern weapons. We has no industrial base, we had only borrowed technology. Our enemies were stronger, richer and more powerful, but we won, Because they refused to fight to win.

Allah is great!"

Posted by: John | 2007-08-28 9:40:58 PM

It's driveling in here.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-28 9:55:51 PM

John, should we just bomb to hell a province in Afganistan , kill everyone,teach them a lesson, in order to win them over to democracy?

Posted by: gary e | 2007-08-28 10:09:13 PM

I think John's point was to fight a war to win. Today the western military practically has to apply for a 'permit' to engage the enemy.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-28 10:16:28 PM

It was a full fledged world war. We fought to win. We did!

I think that those who made up that display should be fired, and kiss the ass of the veterans on live TV. The display was simply history being re-wrote for Liberal political correctness.

Take a page out of the US book with regards to the atomic bombings of Japan. Basically, you started it (Pearl Harbour), we finished it. Never will be an apology!!!

Posted by: Leaf | 2007-08-28 10:17:22 PM

Don't know. Never asked an American.

Posted by: Leaf | 2007-08-28 10:26:24 PM


Answer a simple question. No bullshit, no rhetoric, no ant-American propaganda, no anti-Western Canada, no ant-Harper, etc, etc.

Why are you here in North America? You don't like anything remotely to do with the Western ways of life.

Posted by: Leaf | 2007-08-28 10:38:35 PM

Leaf, it sounds to me that Roger likes "North America" more than you do. Thicken your skin, and perhaps the value of criticizing the status quo will enter into your daily thinking.

Life is not a competition, but an exploration.

Posted by: gary e | 2007-08-28 10:51:07 PM

Gary e

"Roger likes North America more than you do"

Somehow, I highly doubt that.

I'll leave it at that, and call it a night.

Posted by: Leaf | 2007-08-28 11:05:34 PM

Stating that the bombing did not have the desired effect is to state the truth. Illustrating with pictures of the many dead and mutilated implies an immorality that did not exist. Bomber command did not know its tactics would not bear fruit. How could they? Massive bombing had only previously taken place during the Spanish Civil War and that on a less extensive scale. The conventional bombing of Tokyo was also impressive in its destruction but it did not bring the Japanese government to its knees. That took the atomic bombs and even then there are historians who believe that the Soviet entry into the war against Japan was what finally convinced the Japanese to surrender. Is it the words on the plaque that are offensive or is it the whole display and the hindsight conclusion?

Posted by: DML | 2007-08-28 11:28:13 PM

John, you said it perfectly. Leaf, you are also correct. Funny how these PC idiots overlooked the German bombing and destruction of civilians in Britain - to say nothing of their works elsewhere.

Hitler was brought to power and remained in power until the end thanks to most of the German people.

Now our tax dollars fund once again the revision of history. Disgusting!

Posted by: Alain | 2007-08-28 11:39:22 PM

well now I have seen it all...I remember just a short time ago it was a regularly contrived insult from the twisted left that conservatives were like Hitler...now it seems even the left has inserted their head so far up their behinds to believe that Hitler and Nazi Germany were hard done by. Wow. Is there no end to their hypocracy? Just when I think they cant get ANY lower in the gutter...BLAM.
When is Harper gonna clean house of the rats in these government departments? I remember when the liberals took over from the PC's they got rid of EVERYONE! Why the hell hasent Harper done they same? These departments are eating the government from within! Get rid of them NOW!!!!

Posted by: whelansm | 2007-08-29 1:43:26 AM

A large number of RCAF Veterans including many who served in Bomber Command joined with Mr. Clifford Chadderton CEO War Amps,and Veteran and Journalist Peter Worthington to force the nororious Canadian War Museum to remove their now infamous "Plaque
which was in fact comprised of outright lies about the allied bombing campaign directed against Germany
this is not a proper site to debate the heroic efforts of Allied Aircrews in World WarII because
many of the posters have a foreign motivated agenda
-know nothing whatever about RCAF Veterans of Bomber Command none of whom will bother to comment
to the scum who appear regularly on Winston's totally out of control site - The fact is the Museum Director was forced to resign and Rabinovith a Liberal Political Patronage clone will be gone soon. Ragheads and and assorted scum are no match for "The Warriors Of The Night" Macleod -

Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-08-29 5:44:33 AM

The pre-war strategic bombing school held that area bombing of cities would lead to mass psychiatric casualties among the workers who kept the armaments factories going. There was never any real hope of hitting the factories. The civilians were the targets. The British knew that Bomber Harris wasn't actually trying to hit military targets, just kill and terrify German civilians. This is why of all the major British commanders he alone wasn't granted a peerage after the war.

One can understand why Bomber Command veterans don’t appreciate a close look at their activities. Unlike the army and air force a great deal of WW 2 RCAF operations would now be considered war crimes and were realized at the time to be at the least immoral.

Posted by: Fred T. Ward | 2007-08-29 7:56:07 AM

I know many RCAF and RAF Veterans of Bomber Command
who were ordered to Bomb German cities -all I have taked with over the last several decades expressed their opinions that the Bomber campaigns focused on German cities were carried out to kill Germans, which it did - Churchill himself introduced the concept of total bombing of targeted German Cities -Air Chief Marshall Harris directed the strategy - good for them -we won -no other point of view is valid in RCAF,RAF or Allied aircrew organizations. Canada has no reason to consider anything but praise for the "Warriors of the Night" young and very brave men - none of you in fact know anything about "The War" except what you have read somewhere - I would not walk into the Air Force Association HQ, Ottawa and say that Fred T. Ward
-pure nonsense and bullshit. Macleod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-29 8:14:23 AM

Jack McLeod. Is your position that I'm wrong and the bombing theorists didn't recommend targeting civilians? Was Harris made a peer and I missed it? It's common and understandable for vets(and governments)to rationalize their actions. For years the "Without Dieppe there could have been no Normandy" line was received wisdom but now most educated people know the Dieppe Raid was simply an attempt by Mountbatten to be seen to be doing something daring with his command and was a complete waste of life and material.

Posted by: Fred T. Ward | 2007-08-29 9:11:29 AM

I get tired of the moral equivalence argument of war pushed on us, in this example, and in a large share of Hollywood's war movies.

Our WW2 vets are heroes, they did what they had to do to win. If they didn't take tough and necessary actions, WW2 may have dragged out another 5 years, costing many more millions of lives, assuming we'd still have won at all.

If today's media pundits and quarterback generals acted then like they act now, we'd have pulled out from the "quagmire" of Juno Beach after the first hour of battle.

Posted by: Joel K. | 2007-08-29 9:24:29 AM

Absolutely right, Joel K.

It's very disconcerting to listen to and read the reportage of the very Left leaning,peace at all costs, self appointed experts slagging our brave Veterans over the actions they deemed needed to be taken to win.

How we will ever win the world war on terrorism with them yapping and snapping at our heels is another battle in itself.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-29 10:01:33 AM

There were many, many veterans of Bomber Command in the post war RCAF who acted as mentors to the young ground and aircrews recruited to create the post War RCAF -we all knew the Veterans well, but it was a rare thing to discuss the "War" too many good men,friends of the Veterans were lost in the Bombing campaigns for anybody to focus of bogus claims of "morality" predicated by Holocaust Denier David Irving -now imprisoned in Austria. But close friends, highly decorated RCAF Pilots and Navigators
mentioned from time to time that they had no illusions of why they were bombing Germany. We are dealing here with reality not academic trivia from some Ivory Tower phoney intellectual who would be scared shitless to fly in a Mark X AVRO Lancaster over Germany at night - we have "fixed"
the controversial New War Museum for now. the message being tell the truth or f---k off! an old and acceptable Air Force phrase for this post. Macleod. The New Conservative Government will support Canada's Veterans who have have earned respect from all real Canadians - MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-29 10:41:37 AM

The cities that were targeted were targeted for their production value.

Not always. The Battle of Berlin that was waged in the winter of 1943-44 was done to eliminate the administrative center of Germany. The losses were horrendous with little tangible results. Harris hoped to end the war with this campaign, unfortunately he overestimated the value of strategic bombing and underestimated the ability of the Germans to continue through it.

Posted by: JAS39 | 2007-08-29 10:41:48 AM

"German civilians who died at the hands of Canadians and the allies were simply victims of their OWN evil regime."

Same as Palestinians "civilians" who ide when Israel defends itself.

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-29 10:43:07 AM

Start a war - face the consequences. Save your tears for the innocent who died at Pearl Harbor, London, and the concentration camps.

I have no room to pity Japanese & German civilians who died because their governments started hostilities.

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-29 10:46:46 AM


"German civilians who died at the hands of Canadians and the allies were simply victims of their OWN evil regime. There is nothing that can be done about that."

Actually, they were not just a part of the regime, they were the back-bone of the regime. Remember who elected Hitler in the first place. Sure, not all--that is clear, and yet when Germany elected the nazis, they became the NAZIS--because they were the NAZIS, through and through.

Same thing the other way around--everything the NAZIS ordered, the Germans did--even if it offended their sensitivities. Sure, there was a very very small resistance--but by and large, the movement failed, and the rest is history.

And in spite of this, it is very clear, that Germany today, has all the right mechanisms in place, as well as real awareness, so that what they did before, they never do again. And, what they did is also a lesson for the more intelligent peoples around the world, that it is better to invest in development than it is to invest in hatred and murder. And that is primarily the difference between facists and non-facists alike. Facists organize around what they hate, and spread hatred--which is why we call islamofacism, and extremely dangerous ideology, that has no place in the world--for what it is; just another form of facism.

Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-29 11:41:56 AM

Hitler's regime was a popular one in the eyes of most Germans but not all. It is hard to have sympathy for the civilian populations of either Germany or Japan. The very way the German economy was run put paid to their war efforts in the long run. While the bombing was not as effective in destroying the economy as Harris wanted, the "collateral" damage did tie up people in looking after the dead and wounded and that also contributed to the defeat.

Posted by: DML | 2007-08-29 11:44:35 AM

Soviet Union insisted on mass destruction of German cities and related municipal units for the express purpose of killing Germans -Churchill and his War Cabinet did not want an arguement with Comrade Stalin in the months preceeding what became "D-Day"
AirChief Marshall Harris was tasked with turning RAF Bomber Command and it's Commonwealth Air Forces into
a ruthless killing machine -Allied Air Crews and
support staff would never ever mentioned any possible objection to this strategy.Group Captain Guy P. Gibson VC,DSO,DFC provides a combat airman's perspective in his newly republished "Enemy Coast Ahead" Allies had committed to win the War, and German losses no matter how accomplished were not part of the equation. Today in our land of milksops, people forget how ruthless our Allied Forces became by the surrender
of Germany - which is the reason, they in fact surrendered -we beat the shit out of them, to be blunt. MacLeod -don't like it, how sad. MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-29 1:40:39 PM

"German civilians who died because their governments started hostilities."

Their government didn't start hostilities. Britain declared war on Germany, over Poland. However, strangely enough did not declare war on the Soviet Union when Stalin and his Jews also invaded Poland.

Undoubtedly, the world must learn from the evil of messianic murderers, however, firstly, all such victimzers should be identified.

Illustrated Sunday Herald
February 8, 1920, page 5

A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People

By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.

SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.

And it may well be that this same astounding race may at the present time be in the actual process of producing another system of morals and philosophy, as malevolent as Christianity was benevolent, which, if not arrested would shatter irretrievably all that Christianity has rendered possible. It would almost seem as if the gospel of Christ and the gospel of Antichrist were destined to originate among the same people; and that this mystic and mysterious race had been chosen for the supreme manifestations, both of the divine and the diabolical.


In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus--Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and an the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution: by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

Needless to say, the most intense passions of revenge have been excited in the breasts of the Russian people. Wherever General Denikin's authority could reach, protection was always accorded to the Jewish population, and strenuous efforts were made by his officers to prevent reprisals and to punish those guilty of them. So much was this the case that the Petlurist propaganda against General Denikin denounced him as the Protector of the Jews. The Misses Healy, nieces of Mr. Tim Healy, relating their personal experiences in Kieff, have declared that to their knowledge on more than one occasion officers who committed offences against Jews were reduced to the ranks and sent out of the city to the front. But the hordes of brigands by whom the whole vast expanse of the Russian Empire is becoming infested do not hesitate to gratify their lust for blood and for revenge at the expense of the innocent Jewish population whenever an opportunity occurs. The brigand Makhno, the hordes of Petlura and of Gregorieff, who signalised their every success by the most brutal massacres, everywhere found among the half-stupefied, half-infuriated population an eager response to anti-Semitism in its worst and foulest forms. The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with the villainies which are now being perpetrated..."

Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-29 2:14:00 PM

DJ ~

Try posting on KKK.com. You'll fit right in.

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-29 2:21:59 PM

"German civilians who died because their governments started hostilities."

The Gathering Storm
By Winston S. Churchill
Pages 346-348.

"And now, when every one of these aids and advantages has been squandered and thrown away. Great Britain advances, leading France by the hand, to guarantee the integrity of Poland - of that very Poland which with hyena appetite had only six months before joined in the pillage and destruction of the Czechoslovak State. There was sense in fighting for CzechoSlovakia in 1938 when the German Army could scarcely put half a dozen trained divisions on the Western Front, when the French with nearly sixty or seventy divisions could most certainly have rolled forward across the Rhine or into the Ruhr. But this had been judged unreasonable, rash, below the level of modern intellectual thought and morality. Yet now at last the two Western Democracies declared themselves ready to stake their lives upon the territorial integrity of Poland. History, which we are told is mainly the record of the crimes, follies, and miseries of mankind, may be scoured and ransacked to find a parallel to this sudden and complete reversal of five or six years' policy of easy-going placatory appeasement, and its transformation almost overnight into a readiness to accept an obviously imminent war on far worse conditions and on the greatest scale.

Moreover, how could we protect Poland and make good our guarantee? Only by declaring war upon Germany and attacking a stronger Western Wall and a more powerful German Army than those from which we had recoiled in September, 1938.
Here is a line of milestones to disaster. Here is a catalogue of surrenders, at first when all was easy and later when things were harder, to the ever-growing German power. But now at last was the end of British and French submission. Here was decision at last, taken at the worst possible moment and on the least satisfactory ground, which must surely lead to the slaughter of tens of millions of people. Here was the righteous cause deliberately and with a refinement of inverted artistry committed to mortal battle after its assets and advantages had been so improvidently squandered. Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly you may come to the moment when you will have to fight withall the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves."

Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-29 2:31:05 PM

NEVER let the facts stand in the way of the truth, right?

Posted by: munroe | 2007-08-29 4:45:22 PM

The "Herrenvolk" in bitterness for losing the first world war, accepted Hitler inclusive his atrocities as their hero-dictator. The "Hitler Jugend,supplied by parents, who forsook their God given duty,became the ruthless Waffen SS, who were not held accountable for killing innocentand defensless women and children. The sensless bombing of Rotterdam centre by the their unchallenged luftwaffe did set a precedent by killing thousands in an hours time. This horrorfilled homicide was going to be repeated on a greater scale (The Hague and Amsterdam) if unconditional surrender would be rejected! The Lord is in charge! Hitler' rule was shortlived, yet the people under him and Mussolini saw them as deliverer from the burden of the Geneva pact.Do todays liberals not learn a lesson from the past by walking on the same paths? A RC Bishop tells us to call God allah!! It seems when islamfascism cannot be beaten we might as well join them. Judea-Christian laws are abandoned, nominal chistians will not take up the Banner of Truth. Christianity without willngness to suffer has lost it's savour. Let satan not fool us, a christian is a disciple of Christ. Is diciplined by Him and is told to love his enemies but never at the expense of the truth!

Posted by: Jake | 2007-08-29 8:49:53 PM

Anyone care to explain why this isn't political correctness at its most odious? A well-funded and well-organized special interest group uses public protest and pressure on politicians to censor a factually accurate description of a historical event because it portrays their activities in a less-than-glowing light. Sound pretty PC to me.
It is hardly inflammatory to say that there is a controversy regarding Bomber Command's strategy. Indeed, the posts above make clear that there remains a controversy, even 60 years later.

Nor does the existing description say or even imply that the crews that flew those missions were war criminals. Chadderton and those who support him insist that no questions can be raised about the strategy undertaken by Bomber Command without insulting the memory of those who died. It was and remains an idiotic argument.

After every war, there is a debate about the morality and the effectiveness of the tactics used. The results of these debates shape, to some degree at least, the rules of war and what soldiers and citizens view as acceptable. We no longer view poison gas as an acceptable tool of war. Nor do we accept wholesale bombing of civilian populations. These changes are the results of peacetime reflections on wartime tactics, reflections that involved both warriors and civilians.
Folks like Macleod talk as if only those who flew those missions have the right to offer an opinion. Like most of the Nonsense that Macleod posts (usually with caps tossed in to for no good reason) this argument is Asinine. As for obc's suggestion that no tears should be shed for German and Japanese children because their leaders were the aggresors - well, what can you expect from a moral and intellectual cripple? The man is more to be pitied than scorned.

Posted by: truewest | 2007-08-29 9:37:58 PM

I'd say that the ones who flew the missions, ARE the only ones to offer an opinion. They helped save the world, and some politically correct (probably a Liberal)yahoo tries to re-write history and slags the guys who helped save the world. Nice thanks! And yet, people on here are screaming there is political correctness by bowing to the veterans wishes. Thats's funny. Because the ones bitching belong to the biggest PC group in Canada (judging by their previous posting history here), the Left-wing.

If it wasn't for people like them years ago, discussing this would be a moot point. In fact, we might not be discussing it at all.

Posted by: Leaf | 2007-08-29 10:43:45 PM

As Margaret MacMillan commented, there's an important difference between a war museum and a war memorial. Despite Chadderton's overheated rhetoric, nobody is suggesting the flight crews are war criminals, but to shut down debate about the carpet bombing of civilian population because veterans don't like the implications of that debate is not only the height of political correctness, but is fundamentally undemocratic.
The vets may have fought the war -- well, part of the war -- but bomber crews don't have a monopoly on interpretation of the war, the tactics employed of the morality of those tactics. In a democracy, that debate belongs to everyone. Nor, practically speaking, does having flown the mission put them in any better position to judge the effectiveness or morality of the tactic. If anything, the opposite is true.
So spare us the horeshit hero talk and try to come up with some reasoned argument instead of knee-jerk PC rhetoric.

Posted by: truewest | 2007-08-29 11:13:35 PM

This is Political Correctness at its best. The Air bombings should not be reflected on the Soldiers, anyway. Instead on the Higher-ups. We are basically suppressing what the Allied Soldiers fought for in WW2.

Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-29 11:20:41 PM

With the sdvent of more precise targetting for our bombers, we no longer "have" to carpet bomb. Morality may enter in to the decision but we should also consider modern technology. The neutron weapon was dismissed due to its ability to leave the ground, after a short period, usable while destroying all of the enemy combattants.

Consider that in wartime everyone can be the enemy. Hitler used children as combattants at the end.

Posted by: DML | 2007-08-29 11:33:22 PM

"...the National Association of Japanese Canadians, says that the war museum's version of the internment of Japanese Canadians underplays the racist and economic forces behind the internment; the NAJC also wants the museum to recognize that despite the treatment of Japanese Canadians, 150 volunteered to don uniforms and fight for Canada."

More political correctness.

"NEVER let the facts stand in the way of the truth, right?"

Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-29 11:38:28 PM

Roger is trying to cover up the Nazi/Muslim connection.

"Islam and Nazism

During World War II, Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler sought to create two Bosnian Muslim SS Divisions and two Albanian Muslim SS Divisions for Kosovo and Western Macedonia. In a May 22, 1944 letter to Artur Phleps, Himmler stated:

My goal is clear: The creation of two territorial corps, one in Bosnia, the other in Albania. These two corps, with the Division ‘Prinz Eugen’, as an army of five SS mountain divisions are the goal for 1944."

"In 1945, one name was missing from the Allies’ list of war criminals, that of Haj Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti or supreme religious leader of Jerusalem and the former President of the Supreme Moslem Council of Palestine. In May 1941, the Mufti declared jihad against Britain and made his way to Berlin after the British put down his attempt to establish a pro-Nazi government in Iraq by a coup d’etat. When he met Hitler, on November 21, 1941, he declared that the Arabs are Germany’s natural friends, ready to cooperate with the Reich with all their hearts by the formation of an Arab Legion. Hitler promised that as soon as the German armies pushed into the Southern Caucasus the Arabs would be liberated from the British yoke. The Mufti’s part of the deal was to raise support for Germany among the Moslems in the Soviet Union, the Balkans and the Middle East. He conducted radio propaganda through the network of six stations, set up anti-British espionage and fifth column networks in the Middle East.

In the annual protest against the Balfour Declaration held in 1943 at the Luftwaffe hall in Berlin, the Mufti praised the Germans because they "know how to get rid of the Jews, and that brings us close to the Germans and sets us in their camp is that up to day." Echoing Muhammad after the battle of Badr, on March 1, 1944 the Mufti called in a broadcast from Berlin:

"Arabs! Rise as one and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor."

Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-30 12:25:09 AM

Trying to change the topic, are we?

Posted by: truewest | 2007-08-30 12:31:49 AM

In fact Air Force Veterans have won their battle with the New Canadian War Museum -the Executive Director was forced to resign, Veteran's Organizations in Canada are a powerful segment of the real Canadian Establishment which controls virtually all the financial institutions of this Country. There will be changes on the Board of the notorious Canadian Museum of Civilization a well known Liberal Patronage Fifedom. The new Canadian
Government supports the establishment Veteran's orgnizations in Canada -who have been and continue to be a hard edged lobby group. For lisping Liberal and Socialist Horde Museum bureaucrats to take on Bomber Command Veterans was the height of folly -they were wiped out, not for the first time, I do not post here to debate -I really couldnt care less what an asshole like "True West"
thinks about anything -Winston the more or less Canadian should get his ass kicked off the Shotgun Blog for loosing control to scum like True West and other creatures. Peter Worthington writes in the Toronto Sun, that Minority Immigrants are not volunteering to serve in the Canadian Forces, one reason that he overlooked is that the Canadian Military do not want them, how could a Regimental or Battalion Copmmander trust a raghead in a war zone like Afghanistan. The Canadian Air Force of World War Two was unquestionably racist -our collective answer, "so what" -we won the War anyway.House cleaning is underway at the New Canadian War Museum. MacLeod laughing in Moncon New Brunswick

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-30 2:53:41 AM

Haha, Rogers comments deleted again? Winston, do you not realize that these actions will only give him more reason to come back.

I know you personally do not like him but he did not do any trolling on this comments section, whereas he has done it in the past. Why the Censorship?

Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-30 3:13:24 AM

York University ? ha, ha, haa. here on the real East Coast of Canada we have real Universities -no Ragheads will ever head any of the long establishec Atlantic Canada Universities -not too many Ragheads in Maine or, or New England. we would never cotract anybody with a "Degree" from York the world's largest High School -headed by Cleopatra the Egyptian - Marginal "Universities" in Canada hire Ragheads whom they can hire for about ten cents and hour. Ragheads are doing PM Harper a big favour by
destroying the credibility of the once mighty Liberal Party -Jezz even the University of Moncton
where tenured Professor Citoyen Dion taught his version of Political Science will not consider semi literate and disloyal immigrants on their faculty -such as it is - Ragheads are not and never will be real and loyal Canadians - tough titty Roger -write to your MP -ball point pen is the best way. Macleod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-30 3:41:36 AM

Our battle with the "New" Canadian War Museum is won and over -important news for real Conservatives from the East Coast of Canada is -PM Harper has appointed former Premier Pat Binns as Ambassador to the Republic of Ireland -a very smart move. Pat Binns is a native Albertan and former Development Officer who
changed the industrial base of Prince Edward Island
-he will find Ireland much like PEI. The model we used to develop the aerospace and technology industrial Slemon Park PEI was and is the international aerospace and free trade port and aerodrome Shannon, Limerick Ireland -a great success story - MacLeod in the real East of Canada

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-30 4:44:35 AM

At this point, given the source countries of the immigrants to this country over the past two decades, it would be extremely risky to have any of them in our Forces. Trust is not there and there is little hope it will ever be.

It's enough evidence to read the fools who post on this Blog.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-30 6:45:02 AM

Right on Liz - Canadian Military don't want them, and many Immigrants are considered as cowards and
malcontents who would always be subject to distrust
-Canadian Armed Forces ain't designed for immigrants
in any event - it is what one might call a closed shop -"no life like it,eh!" MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-30 6:51:39 AM

Nice to see your as blustery and full of bullshit as ever. (I was worried that senility was sinking its clutches even deeper) And just as incapable of mounting a reasoned and persuasive argument. And nice to see you've let your inner fascist out for a walk -- if you can't answer an argument with which you disagree (which seems to be the c case most of the time) it must be banned or crushed. And then you have the gall to suggest that we owe our freedoms to old soldiers like you. What a laugh.

Posted by: truewest | 2007-08-30 7:47:37 AM

W had an engineer in the otherday who designed a portable composite chemical toilet -suggested he call it "The True West Shit Dispenser" in respect to True West's only function to spew bullshit
and assorted venom on this sad site or what's left of it -Understand True West wants Alberta to leave our Fair Dominion -good idea - take all the ragheads and assorted scum with you -close the door shut on your way out -MacLeod -whose name is MacLeod not a cowardly nom de plume like False West or Semi True West or Arthur the Leper - MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-30 8:02:17 AM

Nice to see you're maintaining your usual high standards of argument. And that you've revealed yourself, not just as an ignorant old man, but a nasty little racist as well. Really, you cover your self in glory.
As for Alberta leaving the Dominion, I'm against it. But then I don't live in Canada's only one-party state. Maybe you'd like to take this up with Speller or one of the other Western separatists (all conservatives, I note) on this site.
Now go die.

Posted by: truewest | 2007-08-30 8:38:09 AM

"Why the Censorship?"
Posted by: Edmontonian | 30-Aug-07 3:13:24 AM

Because the troll, who I will not mention by name, was banned.

The troll goes around the ban by a method I won't describe, but banning means the troll's posts will be deleted every day, regardless of future content, because the host of this private blog has withdrawn the troll's welcome to comment here.

I suppose, Edmontonian, that when you have an open house and some stranger comes and defecates on your carpet causing you to show him the door, that you think it's ok for the perp to crawl back in through a window and do it some more.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-30 8:49:33 AM

The Western Standard is a Conservative Publication, it follows the Shotgun is considered a Conservative Blog.

Given that it welcomes all reasonable debate and debaters it also gets the silly beggars, out to hijack all threads. They have every right to ban or delete hateful rubbish from their site. If they do not, they will become rubbish.

Some even have the nerve to expect us to accept their nonsense and often filthy rhetoric.
Too bad, so sad to think we have assholes who are so bankrupt of decency they don't realize who won our freedoms and show no respect for them.
They are the the enemy within, scum of the earth, who are giving comfort to those we are currently dealing with in the ME.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-30 9:11:22 AM

Speller I am surprised that you actually responded to "Edmontonion". what is the point? -speaking with our colleagues in Ottawa, Hamilton and Halifax it is
clear that genuine veterans of the RCAF and the Canadian Air Force have won their battle with the New Canadian War Museum which our Group of Companies decided to boycott some time ago -most of the bargaining power the Museum staff and mentors got was from the discredited Liberal regimes of Martin and Chretien. I doubt knowing Chretien that he and his ace Flunkie Goldenburger gave a damm about the Museum, don't think sleazy Martin ever bothered to visit. The new Conservative Government we are convinced will shake up the patronizing and arrogant Museum staff all of whom are expendable. Staff in virtually all Military Museums in the UK and US as well as Russia are genuine Veterans which must be mandatory in Canada. No more lisping clerks with their agendas - this will be supported by Chadderton and Worthington both Canadian Veterans
as well as the Royal Canadian Legion and various
Military associations - another victory for real Canadians - MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-30 9:13:06 AM

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