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Wednesday, August 01, 2007

"Toronto the Dump"

(Cross-posted from Burkean Canuck)

So, I'm sitting in my barber's chair, and he starts in about all that ails his city, Toronto.  He gets through the wackiness of what city regulations require every time a Toronto resident wants to improve his property and, as a result, his street and neighbourhood by setting an example and encouraging the "keeping up with the Joneses" effect.  My barber gets to how onerous household garbage disposal is, now, and how nothing is too little trouble to be an imposition on Toronto's garbage collectors.  In Toronto, the recyclables must be separated from other waste and, then, into glass, plastic, paper, newsprint, and boxes, and non-recyclables into dry and wet.  And this wrinkle:  not only must the corrugated cardboard boxes be broken down, flattened, and tied, but the square footage, er, metre-age, must not exceed thus-and-so, or the collector can refuse to throw it into the back where it's compacted.  My barber observed that in Montreal, the garbage collectors still pick up whatever's put out to the curb, in whatever state -- no refuse refused.

And then, Nick the Barber makes this observation.  Twenty years ago when he visited Chicago, he gave the relatives a hard time about how dirty Chicago was and how clean his home city of Toronto was by comparison.  Now, the Chicago relatives brag about how clean their city is compared to that dump, Toronto!  How in Chicago the streets and sidewalks are spotlessly clean, but in Toronto there's trash lying around all over and the sidewalks are speckled with chewing gum carcasses.  And, no panhandlers on Michigan Avenue, Chicago -- unlike on Toronto's Yonge Street or Bloor where one is accosted by panhandlers once or twice each block.  (This, even though the Safe Streets Act is still in force in Ontario).

Chicago is, um, "my kind of town."  But it's not just Chicago that looks better than Toronto.  Manhattan is no longer known for the stink of garbage rotting curbside in the hot, summer sun, or for muggers in Central Park.  Manhattan streets and sidewalks are free of trash or any signs of chewing gum remains.Central Park is filled to overflowing with families, strollers, and dogs on leashes.   Not long ago,  I walked around Central Park and from Midtown down to Greenwich Village and on -- maybe sixty blocks -- and I encountered exactly "zero" panhandlers!  "Start spreadin' the news."

"Toronto the Good"?  Nope.  I hereby christen thee, "Toronto the Dump."

Posted by Russ Kuykendall on August 1, 2007 in Municipal Politics | Permalink


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Oh please. We all know everything Canadian is better, cleaner, fairer, more advanced, more cultured, more peaceful, etc, etc, than anything American.


Posted by: Johan i Kanadaj | 2007-08-01 7:27:29 AM

Well, this is a bit of a tall tale.

We have three bins at our house here in Toronto:

Green, for basically everything biodegradable but mostly food waste;

blue/grey for cardboard, glass, plastic, paper, etc. (you used to have to put them in separate (paper in one, plastic and glass in another) but that was phased out years ago;

and a garbage pail (actually two, one for indoor, one in the garage for outdoor);

In the shed is my supply of yard waste bags.

I do a ton of gardening/woodworking/fixing-up, whatever you want to call it.

Only once has anything been refused, and I do admit that it weighed about 50 pounds (the limit is 40).

I think anyone who believes this to be onerous is a bit of a crank. Seriously, flattening a box? How cruel.

I do agree that Chicago is a much cleaner city now than Toronto. I don't know what our Certified Genius of a Mayor (just ask Him!) is doing with all the CUPE staff he's been giving those 5% raises to, but they sure as hell aren't cleaning up the place....

Posted by: James Goneaux | 2007-08-01 8:44:50 AM

Is the concept of personal responsibility foreign in Toronto?

‘The government should do something about this.'

It's up to each individual to place his/her trash in receptacles, not up to CUPE to pick up after these pigs.

Posted by: Set you free | 2007-08-01 9:10:56 AM

Forget the food and cardboard waste. Start with the human waste that infests the downtown core. Get rid of the bums, vagrants and assorted other miscreants that sleep,urinate,defecate and beg on the streets. Then go to City Hall and rid it of all the Leftiod hangers-on that help perpetuate the aforementioned situation for their own personal benefit.
Start collecting the trash!

Posted by: rattfuc | 2007-08-01 9:11:36 AM

very well said!

Posted by: Winston | 2007-08-01 9:13:33 AM

My garbage man came to my door one day and angrily told me that I was putting recyclables in my garbage bag. We are allowed on bag per week and recycling is picked up every two weeks. We pay for this service. There is no law stating what has to be put where. There is only garbage man intimidation.

I told him that to stay out of my garbage and do his job. If not, I would start depositing my trash at night in the city hall parking lot or along the roadway in upscale neighborhoods.

I never put anything in my garbage that has my name or address on it as a matter of identity safety.

He has not bothered me since.

It was not an idle threat.

Sometime there has to be motivation for the governments to do what the people expect and pay them for.

Posted by: John | 2007-08-01 9:36:07 AM

One more thing. I do recycle, but not obsessively. I have a life.

Posted by: John | 2007-08-01 9:39:23 AM

Recycling and sorting your garbage at your home is one thing.

Having a pig sty in dowtown public areas is quite another.

Posted by: Set you free | 2007-08-01 10:33:36 AM

Playing the dump card against Toronto is so simple - and well-deserved.

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-01 10:53:15 AM

I agree with your view on Manhattan, don't know about Toronto, but downtown Vancouver and Victoria are crawling with panhandlers and freaks.

Posted by: John Chittick | 2007-08-01 11:12:18 AM

Toronto is indeed a dump -Liberal induced multiculturalism has ruined Toronto, which I remember as it used to be, one of the world's great
cities founded and created by British immigrants
including many from Ulster, Ireland and Scotland
the old, traditional Toronto was easily equal to New York - today, industries we work with are advised to avoid Ontario and seek location in the Mohawk Vally State of New York. The next major expansion of Pratt and Whitney will be in the State of New York, not Ontario, and certainly not in the festering scab covered filthy Toronto. MacLeod.

Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-08-01 11:48:41 AM

T'ranna became a dump pretty much after Davis left Queen's park. This is probably a mutually exclusive event, but it's how I remember the marked difference in the quality/effectiveness of TO city governments.

The poor governments impacted the city with 2 noticable departures from the previous TO:

1) Insufferabe taxes that seem to never stop the inner city decay

2) increased crime and crime ghettos.

Personally I think the political rainmakers in TO went on a binge promoting a mayoralty candidates marketability rather than ability..we got a series of politically correct mayors who were high profile activists on leftist causes ( except Lastman who was elected for his "buffoon" novelty)unfortunately being a mayor means getting the roads paved, collecting the garbage, keeping schools open and paying the firemen and cops to keep the city safe...when these are in place and the budgets balanced developers will take a chance on creating new venues to revive the city core and attract business to the city...this roll is not saving the world from imagined demons and delivering some existentialist utopian social experiment.

Obviously the world-savers hadn't the skill set to be an administrator...which is all a mayor is...not an office to play out utopian fantasies.

Anyway, the city is now pretty much a dump with public/visitor venues that are expensive, decayed from neglect and staffed by surley union employees with poor English skills...if I want to be over charged and met with surley service staff with poor English skills, I'll go to Montreal, at least the restaurants and shows make up for the hassels.... these days I usually take the toll roads to get through or around TO as fast as possible without having to stop and interface with the brain dead denizens who think it's still the center of the known universe.

I think a lot of business class organizations think as I do because we see more conventions and professional meetings going to Montreal Halifax Vancouver Calgary/Banff than TO these days.

Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux | 2007-08-01 11:55:21 AM

Don't know about a Dump the in sense of ordinary household garbage but it sure as hell is a Dump as in dumping all sorts and varieties of people with whom we have no history. Added to their problem is the Lefty Mayor and his minions.
This guy who comes out swinging to ban guns every time there's a shooting, which is always in an ethnic enclave or by someone from one.
Add to that they have shut down a target shooting range at UofT that's been in operation for 85 years or thereabouts.

Yes, it's a Dump alright, a Lefty paradise, just ask Jack Layton.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-01 12:50:53 PM

Thank you for your very accurate and detailed post
WL MacKenzie Redux -you are indeed correct, Toronto became a dumping ground for the unwashed and unruly
by careful planning and contempt for the public by Liberal Party organizers, who introduced "Politics"
into Municipal politics, something Bill Davis avoided. Too late for Toronto however. MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-01 12:56:19 PM

NY's clean-up is the Crown of Rudy Giuliani (sp?). He got on board, hired more police, and ensured that the police were empowered with what they needed, to get the crud off the streets--so that people could be safe. then, when things were going well, he kept the police there, rather than cutting them back. NY has become the City that every Mayor dreamt NY would be!

And he did much more than that.

Further to this, he broke the backs of organized crime! He did what others said could not be done. And he did it systematically, as I described before.

I have good friends in NY City, who are raising their children there, and say it is the safest City they have ever lived in. Meanwhile, cities across Canada, are full of junkies, littered with needles, and have gangs ruling blocks, where innocent boys and girls get murdered--without end!

And our politicians are weak, spineless, idiots-who relish the money and power at their fingers, without the vision and where-with-all to do anything about it.

They are tolerant to the criminal, while letting good people live in fear.

I pray, we find oursleves, the BIG HEARTED "Rudies" of Canada, both Gentlemen and Ladies, who know what is required, and can get the job done--rather than what we see, which is stupid people getting cowed by gangs--murderers--rapists--organized criminals--and terrorists!

Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-01 1:19:25 PM

Our Capital city, Ottawa, is starting to show some untoward signs as well.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-01 1:40:31 PM

When you bring in enough Third World people, you end up with Third World conditions. What you see in Toronto and Vancouver today is what will inevitably happen to our other major cities. Third Worlders are notorious litterbugs and vote for extreme leftists like David Miller. I hope immigration is drastically reduced before Canada's last best hope, Calgary, turns into a garbage and graffiti strewn leftist hellhole like Toronto. Failing that, Alberta should separate forthwith. Vive l'Alberta libre!

Posted by: JP | 2007-08-01 2:47:08 PM

Has the mayor of TO paid attention to what the mayor of Seattle is going to do to stop gangs and violence in that city. Pipe CLASSICAL MUSIC into the transit system, malls etc. Wonder how that will work. How many speakers will be shot at?

Posted by: MaryT | 2007-08-01 3:04:32 PM

JP- Third World people have something to do with it I'm sure, but the fact is that Toronto Council is so afraid of alienating them that they would never ever, broach that subject. The rot which is Toronto began in the '60's when the city decided it was trendy and edgy to entertain all sorts of Hippie and Free-Love lifestyles. If any of you are
old and competent enough to remember Rochdale College, then you will know exactly what I mean.
Whackos, Perverts and an assortment of other Malcontents flocked to Toronto during the "Summer of Love" only to breed another generation of Whackos, Perverts and assorted Malcontents.
A small group of Marxists recognozed the value of this as an experiment in Socialism and exploited the masses. They continue to do it to this day, hence the condition of a once great city. Their tourism logo " Toronto- How Gay Does It Get?" is an exemplification of their mindset.

Posted by: rattfuc | 2007-08-01 3:18:54 PM

What's killing Toronto is arrogance. Its citizens have believed that their city was inherently superior to all others for a very long time. The saw in their city all the attributes of a socially responsible ('enlightened' they called it) citizenry. They embraced every cause imaginable - helping the environment, ending poverty and homelessness, and improving race relations.

Well, despite being aware of mounting of those problems, they failed on every count. Toronto people have refused to address them by electing competent government - like that current idiot mayor of theirs. They don't want to take the hard, controversial decisions. Instead, they prefer soft measures that rarely succeed - like calling for bans on handguns, limiting garbage collection, cutting transit service, and decaying race relations.

They now need a Giuliani to get them out of their mess, but Giulianis are rare. Toronto desperately needs a Rudy or a Mayor Daley of Chicago to make those hard decisions. Neither the federal, provincial or other local governments can help. Unless one comes along soon, Toronto will never improve. The responsibility lies exclusively with them, so they better smarten the hell up.

Until then, I will continue to mock and deride the pathetic excuse for a city. It makes me happy knowing that Toronto fails to be any good at all. What more can we expect from a people who need the army to shovel their snow? It's all their fault.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-01 3:43:07 PM

Conservative-minded people have been politically-cleansed from Toronto over the past couple decades. Now you have a latte-slurping, homo-friendly hipster elite jostling with Somalis, Sri Lankans, Jamaicans and other flotsam of the Third World in a leftard paradise. Normal folks have decamped for more Canadian-like exurbs such as Oakville, Newmarket, Whitby, etc. Aside from the insane traffic, perpetual smog, garbage, graffiti and maddening crowds, the crime rate for the GTA is very low compared with most of the rest of the country. Can someone please offer an explanation for this?

Posted by: JP | 2007-08-01 4:09:14 PM


Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-01 4:44:16 PM

I don't care much about Tranna, I never did and I likely never will. I wish that they would stop mving West though - they are ruining Calgary!

Posted by: jema54j | 2007-08-01 7:36:26 PM

Send more Newfies instead. Those are good people!

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-01 7:49:03 PM

Mr. K. should visit his doctor, not his barber.

"Take this Russ." " But Doc, it tastes like bullshit!" "Yeah, you were down a quart."

On Forbes world's cleanest city list, Toronto is number 21 (Calgary was cleanest) and by far the largest city of the 21. Chicago is murder city USA. 2003 was the first year since 1967 that the homicide rate fell below 600 annually. Chicago's demographics differ from Toronto's. Chicago blacks account for 45% of the population and hispanics account for at least half of the "white" population. Toronto's blacks are ~9% of the city's population.

Higher black/hispanic proportion of a population equals higher rates of crime.


Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-01 7:49:36 PM


Nice post!You're showing either your age or historical knowledge. Rochdale? Didn't think anyone would even remember that blossom of Bloor Street. Your description is accurate except it was really a front for drug dealing and prostitution. The entire city of Toronto now reflects the image of that once great social experiment.

Posted by: Harry | 2007-08-01 8:02:14 PM

"What you see in Toronto and Vancouver today is what will inevitably happen to our other major cities. Third Worlders are notorious litterbugs and vote for extreme leftists like David Miller."

Well maybe not anymore, JP.

Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-01 8:20:56 PM

...And do not hesitate to hit the "PM Harper Makes remark".

Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-01 8:29:10 PM

Garbage is sacred now!

How dare anyone question the rituals demanded by the Church of the Environuts!

Separating your garbage into neat piles is like taking communion, going to church or praying to allah five times a day, only a heathen heretic would question it!(free pass if you pray to allah though - nobody wants to piss off the sensitive suicide bomber religion)

Posted by: philanthropist | 2007-08-01 9:15:56 PM

. . . certainly not over garbage - so similar to their holy book which espouses death to all infidels.

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-01 10:09:42 PM


That Temple is a work of art. I am simply amazed at what they have created. Although it is not my religion, I will go out of my way to visit the new Temple.

Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-01 11:15:57 PM

I'm also amazed by this temple but will probably never go visit. There's more chance for me to visit that kind of temple if traveling in India.

My point was that a Cnd politician is a Cnd politician; regardless of his position in the scale...a Cnd PM will always go where the votes are. It should not be this way. That's what I think.

Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-02 12:34:42 AM

I come back from a one month trip in europe to spread the Gospel.

We stayed in Liège, Belgium first. It is full of dog excrement although it is quite a nice city.

We were told it is a very left leaning city. Then we were in Toulouse, France. No comparison. Very clean and people taking care not to litter. I was told Toulouse is Sarkozy turf.

Canada needs an overhaul. Montréal is not very clean. Mayor Jean Drapeau used to do a very good job. I suggest we need to train immigrants before we let them in.

And most important of all, we need to spread the Gospel, not the Koran.

Posted by: Rémi Houle | 2007-08-02 4:18:32 AM

Harry- It's age, I'm afraid.

Posted by: rattfuc | 2007-08-02 4:21:18 AM

Well, I'm not even going to touch the racist-tinged "Third Worlders litter more" crap.

Most of the littering I see done is by middle-class white kids who have grown up with a sense of entitlement. I threw an orange peel at one twit who tossed it to the ground - three feet from a garbage can(then put it in the can myself of course).

Posted by: James Goneaux | 2007-08-02 8:07:22 AM


I would tend to agree that most littering is done by middle-class white kids, despite the prejudicial comments posted so far.

Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-02 8:24:18 AM

while our wonderful lower class black kids and other immigrants are busy shooting each other and stealing stuff.

Once again white English speaking people are shown to be more civilized than most others.

Posted by: John | 2007-08-02 9:23:10 AM

Oh dear, what a racist comment if ever there was one.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-02 10:01:45 AM

Toronto always wanted to be a big American city, now they have their wish.
They wanted to look big and bad and so they are reaping the rewards of that.

and in reference to the above stats on toronto's black population at 9 % ?!
How is it only 9% of the population can cause that much shit. Theyre like uncaged animals.
Every description of almost every suspect is "male Black" I can mouth the words before they come out of the announcers mouth
They can keep it !!

Posted by: Brian | 2007-08-02 11:55:18 AM

"How is it only 9% of the population can cause that much shit. Theyre like uncaged animals."

Go to Chicago, Detroit, Compton, N.J., Washington D.C., North Philadelphia, Jo'burg South Africa and Rhodesia and you will see how.

From: University of Michigan

Blacks' Environmental Concerns Equal/Exceed Whites'

"Blacks expressed significantly greater concern than whites about their local environment. According to Mohai, this higher level of concern correlates with the poorer environmental quality found in Black neighborhoods. Neighborhood environmental problems, such as high noise levels, abandoned houses, trash, litter, rats, roaches or other pests were cited as very serious problems by 15 percent of Blacks surveyed and 7 percent of whites."

If it was a black 'hood, who was making all the noise, littering and trashing the hood.

Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-02 12:06:56 PM

You aren't suggesting that perhaps they should take responsibility for the condition of their neighbourhood are you, DJ? Good grief man, don't you know that they are entitled to coddling by the government because they are an oppressed race?
New Orleans is a perfect example of how that works so well.

Posted by: atric | 2007-08-02 12:19:39 PM

New Orleans is the prime example of people who have been infanticized - and made completely dependent on a socialist government - to the point of becoming paralyzed when it came time to evacuate. Some are still waiting for those 500 buses to get them out of the city.

Those who survived with little trouble were they who took responsibility for their own lives.

Posted by: obc | 2007-08-02 1:05:39 PM

Makes me wonder whether some of the benefits to the nxt generation, who moved away as a result of the flood, will be a better education?

When peers do not get an education, and tell eachother that there is no reason to get one, then nobody gets one. It is a fact of their culture--or lack of, whichever way you choose to look at it.

To say there is no anti-legacy from slavery--makes no sense. But to say that there is never a time to move on, and make life better, is rediculous. Those who choose to do better, and make something of themselves, do!

And this attitude that all the problems are the result of race, is stupid. Teach the mothers, and the mothers will teach the children. fail to teach the mothers, and continue to treat them as slaves, and you get what you get!

Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-02 1:09:51 PM


"Ontario losing grip on 'have' status"

Ontario is barely hanging on to its "have" province status, according to a new report from economic forecaster Global Insight Canada.

"From the early 1980s until the early 1990s, Canada had three provinces solidly in the 'have' category," said the report, released yesterday. "In the late 1990s, B.C. left the camp and now Ontario's standard of living is heading downward to the Canadian average."

Of the three original "have" provinces, Alberta's standard of living has led the country for about 20 years and that trend shows no sign of changing, the report said.

"This is a pretty big change from two decades ago," said Global Insight's senior economist Arlene Kish.

The report measures each province's standard of living by real gross domestic product per capita and compares it with the Canadian average.

"Economic growth in Alberta has outpaced the Canadian economy overall by a wide margin every year since 2003, largely, but not entirely, due to strong energy prices," the report noted.

The oil-rich province has also benefited from a downturn in Central Canada caused mainly by the strong dollar, it added.

In 2002, Alberta's standard of living was 19-per-cent above the national average.

By last year, Alberta's standard of living had risen to 24-per-cent above the average, about where it is expected to stay until 2012, Global Insight said.

"The oilsands and an 'open for business' investment climate are expected to provide Alberta with a stronger pace of economic growth over 2007-2012 than any other province," it noted.

Increased population growth in the western province will not offset strong economic growth enough to affect per-capita standard of living, the report said.

At the same time, Ontario -- which has held second spot among the provinces since the 1980s, even tying with Alberta briefly in 1986-87 -- will see its standard of living drop to 5.5-per-cent above average this year from nine per cent in 2002.

It will continue falling until it levels off at about four-per-cent above the Canadian average in 2010, according to the report, which cited the appreciating Canadian dollar, strong energy prices and relatively high business taxes for the decline.

"The Ontario economy has been moving at a pace below the Canadian average since the SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and electricity blackout days of 2002," said the report, stressing that Ontario's standard of living is still growing, just not as fast as in some other provinces.


Posted by: obc | 2007-08-02 2:35:40 PM

"And this attitude that all the problems are the result of race, is stupid."

If it's stupid, show us the evidence. Site just three examples of majority black cities that are less criminal, less impoverished, cleaner, more economically viable or have a generally higher standard of living. Site just one example in New Orleans where blacks are treated as slaves.

C'mon, put your money where your mouth is?

Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-02 2:51:47 PM

Can anyone please offer an explanation for Toronto's much lower than average crime rate? It's dirtier than Calgary, Ottawa, Montreal and Vancouver according to Forbes Magazine, but much safer than almost every Canadian metropolitan area. Why? Anyone...?

Posted by: JP | 2007-08-02 3:32:46 PM

Oh, and for the morons who think middle-class whites are the biggest litterers, please visit Rexdale, Jane and Finch, Scarboro, Brampton or any Chinatown anywhere before shooting your stupid anti-white mouths off.

Posted by: JP | 2007-08-02 3:38:22 PM

Actually, studies show neocons are the worst. The thought is that care about no one else leads to the problem.

Posted by: munroe | 2007-08-02 5:26:40 PM

"Actually, studies show neocons are the worst. "

Which studies? Details please.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-08-02 5:39:41 PM

I'm from T.O. but have lived in Calgary the last 30 years. I live just up from a high school, which is across the street from a Wendy's/Tims. Good marketing ploy, regular customers across the street. I wish I had a picture for this post, but I don't, but visualize it. Trash - everywhere, drifts of it along the LRT fence nearby. The students are every nationality. The school should hold a "trash day" and enlist the students to clean up the mess. Civic responsibility and so on. I went back to T.O. 2 years ago, my, my the place was a dump. Every intersection, cloverleaf, roadside, ditch and walking path was strewn with trash, some of it dumped out the windows of neighboring apartment/condo bldgs. I put it all down to a growing lack of civic pride, disrespect for one's neighbors. There is a definite growth industry in "everybody does it" attitude.

Posted by: jt | 2007-08-02 6:09:27 PM

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