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Thursday, August 09, 2007
China a Christian beachhead?
Posted by Russ Kuykendall on August 9, 2007 in International Affairs, Religion | Permalink
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Good for them? Why is this news?
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-09 12:05:37 PM
I have seen on other sites that Christians now outnumber Commie Party members by over 40 million.
Maybe there's hope for China yet - in the long run.
In the short run, they are still a threat to world peace, as long as the Commies are in charge. But I'm sure Leftoids will disagree.
Maybe one day, the Pope will be Chinese.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 12:10:11 PM
Charismatic Protestantism has found its ways through many third world countries (India, China, Nigeria) full of desperate people, who are willing to believe those false prophets/healers out there.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-09 12:14:50 PM
Yeah - it's the Prophet Al Gore we should be kneeling in front of.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 12:16:50 PM
AL GORE IS A WARM MONGER!
MAN-MADE GLOBULL WARMING IS A HUGE HOAX!
AL GORE IS GETTING FILTHY RICH FROM HIS FALSE PROPHECIES!
An Inconvenient Fact - Occidental Petroleum & the Gore Family go way back!
An Inconvenient Fact - Gore owns a company that sells carbon offsets to suckers who believe his lies.
An Inconvenient Fact – Gore drives a Cadillac Escalade and not a Prius. Gore's daughter drives a v12 Lamborghini.
An Inconvenient Fact – Gore’s 10,000 square foot estate in Tennessee with an indoor swimming pool uses more energy per month than you do in one year. His other two homes use lots of energy too!
An Inconvenient Fact – Gore flies in private jets, lecturing us to reduce our carbon footprints by flying and driving less.
An Inconvenient Fact – Gore’s home in Carthage, Tennessee sits on a zinc mine receiving $20,000 a year in royalties from Pasminco Zinc – a company that pollutes the nearby Caney Fork River.
An Inconvenient Fact – Mars and Pluto are also warming up without any SUV’s and crude oil.
An Inconvenient Fact – Gore served endangered Chilean Sea Bass at his daughter’s wedding last month in Beverly Hills. He demanded a recount of the fish to learn if they really are endangered. Florida surfer Dude “Hangin’ Chad” is in charge of the recount. Then Gore bought “fish offsets” to feel less guilty from the company that sells “carbon offsets” – the one he himself owns.
An Inconvenient Fact – Gore dropped out of Divinity school, Journalism school and Law school – but he is now an expert in environmental studies with no degree?
WE ARE NOT BUYING WHAT AL GORE IS SELLING!
Try this link to see how crazy envirowhackos are:
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 12:17:58 PM
Christianity at least offers some hope from the country's godless leadership who enslave their workers at turn them into robots of a command economy.
Perhaps they may even embrace the values which has made western civilization the creative leader of the world.
edmontonian. I you could articulate which systems you believe to be better than those which allow individual freedom and responsibility; creativity and inventiveness, I would be quite willing to listen.
Otherwise, I'll just put you down in the rebel without a clue category.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-09 12:27:50 PM
I view all Religions on equal level, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, and Buddhism are all the same. I lean toward agnosticism and I am sure you can respect that.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-09 12:35:29 PM
set you free wrote: Christianity at least offers some hope from the country's godless leadership who enslave their workers at turn them into robots of a command economy.
Quite remarkable in the growth of Christianity even though missionaries are outlawed.
Posted by: St Albion Parish News | 2007-08-09 12:46:28 PM
I find it too bad he did not serve Asian carp at his daughters wedding. He could have done a service to the people of the Mississippi, by removing some of the invasive species from his neighbors waters.
Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-09 12:54:46 PM
Agnosticism is not equivalent to ignorance. All you have demonstrated by your statement is that you do not have a clue about what religions are about, whatsoever. You are a perfect example of someone who has been raised on secular BS, where you are not just an individual who has no beliefs, but are someone who will believe anything!
Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-09 12:57:30 PM
There are differences and the test of time has clearly shown the delination.
Christianity is also growing in Muslim areas as the so-called moderate Muslims understand the attraction of a religion in which the pursuit of inner peace is the goal.
Contrast that to the cult of neo-Muhammedanism, which is a cult of death.
It's no wonder Muslims are beginning to vote with their feet, even under the threat of being slaughtered.
They have more courage in their little finger than most of the ingrates in western societies who offer only negativity and no positive alternatives.
The distinctions are clear, my friend.
Intellectual sloth is no excuse.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-09 12:59:56 PM
If you want respect for being an Agnostic, you had better start respecting others who aren't.
Withdrawing your snide "false prophet/healer" remark would be a start.
Posted by: atric | 2007-08-09 1:19:16 PM
. . . but Leftists HAVE no respect for anyone who disagrees with them on any topic - not just religion.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 1:37:28 PM
Careful, Edmontonian, we have to suspend all logic and rational thought to follow blind faith in the supernatural. Atheism is not allowed here.
And just to set the record straight, it is religion that is based on pure bullshit. If people want to believe in it, they can go right ahead but shouldn't insult those of us who don't drink the koolaid.
Posted by: David | 2007-08-09 1:40:02 PM
Thank you OBC. Total proof of that is contained in the post subsequent to yours.
Posted by: atric | 2007-08-09 1:50:38 PM
Even atheists/agnostics should recognise the value of Christianity (and other religions) from an evolutionary perspective.
From a review of Wilson's Darwin's Cathedral;
"The ancient world was a very unpredictable place indeed, characterized by natural disasters such as earthquakes, fires, rioting, epidemics, brutal military campaigns against civilians, famines, and widespread poverty. Navigating this world was greatly facilitated by co-religionists ready to lend a helping hand and to establish economic alliances. Wilson has no hesitation in supposing that Christian charity in extending aid to fellow Christians suffering from the plague involved altruism, as indeed it did. But the result was that more Christians survived these disasters than did Pagans: Christianity was adaptive at the group level. The adaptiveness of Christianity also stemmed from its emphasis on several attitudes that were notably lacking in the Roman Empire: encouragement of large families, conjugal fidelity, high-investment parenting, and outlawing of abortion, infanticide, and non-reproductive sexual behavior. The bottom line is that Christian women did indeed out-reproduce Pagan women. Other obvious examples of religiously mandated fertility and family-promoting values in the contemporary world are the Amish and Hutterites, the Mormons, and Orthodox Jews. All of these religions are characterized by social controls and religious ideologies that promote adaptive behavior at the group level."
Posted by: DJ | 2007-08-09 2:36:48 PM
Atric, the article in this blog mentioned Charismatic Protestantism. Is that not the kind Christianity you do not want to be associated with. Where you have these preachers driving BMW's claiming they are miracle healers.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-09 3:05:52 PM
Didn't take long, did it? I know these goons inside out.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 3:06:46 PM
Agnosticism: Will believe in God if there is enough proof.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-09 3:07:24 PM
Yeah - like the heads of Greenpeace, Sierra Club and PETA - among others have annual salaries of $750,000 plus expenses, like their flying private jets wherever they go (to save the planet, of course!)
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 3:09:22 PM
I hate PETA and am not an Environmentalist, I agree with you there, OBC. I especially do not like the way PETA sensationalizes their message. Comparing Animal killing to the Nazi Concentration camps.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-09 3:18:22 PM
sigh, so an agnostic? is now an expert on the multiple variations within Christianity? And based on the distateful excess of some members of one variant, he judges the whole bundle.
While some variants are more extreme and gullible, others are not. All are making inroads into China.
And if you judged Islam by that single standard, (which most of us here DON'T btw) you would be dead wrong.
People are individuals first and foremost, and while they are informed by their beliefs it is ignorant in the extreme not to mention narrow minded and bigoted to judge them all by the same brush.
This is something that no matter how annoyed I get with Islamic extremists, I try not to judge thinking moderate Muslims like Irshad Manji, a true believing Muslim who has a thoughtful critique of her own religion.
As a Christian, I still think for myself, and reserve the right to critique my own faith, and refine it further.
As should any thinking person who happens to believe in God.
Your assumption on the surface appears to be that no thinking person can believe in God which is ridiculous.
I hope that is not what you intended to imply.
I on the other hand know of many thinking people who don't believe in God, or who believe differently, and I don't make the assumption that they simply are too stupid to believe in God or in my type of faith in God.
But were I to follow your logic, I might. I might also be foolish enough to believe that all people who believe in God, or all adherents to a particular belief system are all the same, and can't think outside their "narrow" little parameters.
People here don't all believe in God, and we come from many different religious backgrounds.
Right wing political and economic beliefs are not as monolithic as you presume.
Posted by: canadian freedoms fan | 2007-08-09 3:20:59 PM
. . . but you failed to address all the envirowhackos who use the average citizen's donations to bilk them for the indefensible salaries that they draw - plus expenses that exceed even those shameful salaries.
Socialists - they want to limit capitalistic profit, except for their own personal profit.
ANIMAL FARM - All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 3:23:21 PM
David and Edmontonian,
Are you saying the likes of Thomas Aquinas or Anselm of Canterbury, whose proofs for the existence of God have never been successfully challenged, were ignorant? Or that Isaac Newton was a fool? Or that atheism involves no metaphysical assumptions (read, faith)? What atheist has ever been able to say "Love them that hate you"?
And finally, what will you say on your deathbed to the God you both hate and claim to know does not exist? No wonder Nietzsche went insane at the end of his life. He knew he could not live without God.
Posted by: TJ | 2007-08-09 3:26:10 PM
Lady believe that someone who dosen't beleive is someone that will become to beleive anything...
How suprised I am ?
In fact, when you're not believing, or using of your report with your God as an argument; you dont need to convince everybody that one or the other are worst than you are. The Talibans must be destoyed but isent it the Afghan people we are forcing our democracy on ?
In the very religious driven -Shotgun-, we hear calls for hate towards "Muslims" onna daily basis like nowhere else and it's the same "type" of people who would defend the mission as it is; like crazy. (With all the holes in the "rebuilting part").
We are keeping them down; we're not helping them builting a democracy. You people would like them to beleive in anything but Islam.
Non-hardcore-beleivers Canadians dont care about where they put their faith; but about the sickos among them. Afterall, "in democracy", people are wiling to put their faith the the God of their choices...no ?
If you're telling me that "our Democracy" is impossible among "Islam"...What the fuck are we doing there ?????? and ?????
So now, Lady is mad after non-very-or-not-religious-beleivers because those people can look at the world with, as a background, a very neutral and honnest account of it. An opinion not biaised by ONLY ONE voice sent onto non-receptive people who dont care about any religious crap. God is real, but the religious crap is here to control you; point à la ligne.
She beleive that Westerners who dont defend a religious point of vue, Western World's style, those people would not be willing to see the bad way of the Islamists or the deficiencies in EVERY religions.
Most people who feel the need to beleive in one religion usually comes from a religious background or...another religious background. Most people who happen to enter a secte are generrally comming from a previous religious background.
Those who are not hardcore-beleivers respect and accept the choices of others in our society.
It would be great if the rednecks and others would be able to do the same.
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 3:29:49 PM
It's a good thing there are thinking members of the human race who understand there is no wisdom in the Chinese system.
Their search for wisdom and truth has brought them to a love-based religion known as Christianity.
Good for them.
It is the basis for the most successful civilizations known to man, built on trust and honour, the western societies.
Sure beats China hands down and any middle eastern system anybody here could point out.
Since part of my Christianity encourages the pursuit of knowledge, I would like to challenge any wise guys out there to name me a system that is more benevolent to its citizenry in the history of mankind than the Judaeo-Christian west.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-09 3:31:47 PM
The State is the mommy and daddy for the left
Religion is the mommy and daddy for right
I am an orphan on this planet in that I have no mommy and daddy of any description, it's up to me to take care of my insecurities and well-being.
Perhaps that makes me a superior human in that I need no crutch to get through my life.
I am Anti the belief in a deity since I see it as silly to believe in a supernatural all powerful being That no one has any proof of. Just like UFO's. However in the case of UFOs many credible people have actually seen on or more.
So what do call a person who is anti state? Objectivist? I don't believe in an all powerful, caring, intelligent collective (elected or not) that can actually take care of all of us (with other peoples money.
We have ample proof of the failure of governments to do a good job of governing. In fact they cause far more problems than they solve.
We have ample proof of the failure of religion to improve the morality and nature of people. In fact they create far more problems that they solve.
Perhaps we should be trying some different ideas about how to live on the planet. Any ideas?
Meanwhile I will continue to live my life as far from governments and churches as possible. That solves a lot of problems for me.
Posted by: Yanni | 2007-08-09 3:43:44 PM
Posted by: John | 2007-08-09 3:45:08 PM
Speaking of UFO's...
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 3:46:27 PM
How do you fill your wisdom deficiency?
Other than believing the world began when you were born and will end when you die, that is?
If you're content with mental mast ... aw, never mind. This is just a wasted effort anyway.
FYI. Religion has never failed. Human beings always fail.
Any proof otherwise?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-09 3:46:57 PM
"Religion has never failed"
That would be all for today, sir.
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 3:51:54 PM
Show me an example were the tenets of a true religion have proven to be false or harmful to anybody in the human race.
I stick to my original statement that it is human beings who fail.
I'm sure you could cite many examples of how so-and-so claimed to be a Christian but acted otherwise.
That's proof of human failure, not the failure of the true religion's tenets.
True Christianity has never been about control ... never.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-09 3:56:51 PM
"of a true religion"
Right there pal.
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 4:02:26 PM
That's been my experience.
Do you deny my experience?
I say to you it is time for Quebec to choose its own path.
Is that control?
You are free, mon ami.
You are in control of your own dignity.
It is not religion, but the state, which denies your aspirations to be free and independent.
You do not need a government official to free you, because you were born with free will.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-09 4:11:13 PM
...maybe to just clear the air:
1. Religion is man's way of trying to reach or 'appease' a higher spiritual power, whether through good works or acts of repetitious bondage.
2. Hope is wishing for something better but maintain the same level of expectancy in something you can't see - and probably avoidance of disappointment when you don't get it.
3. Faith is believing and acting like something that you can't see, you already have.
4. Belief is believing in a past pattern that should or will work again.
5. Non-admittance that there is a higher power or celestial intelligence running this universe is foolish, or igornant extraordinaries.
6. Sitting on a fence semi-admitting that there 'may be' a higher power but not doing anything to seek what it is, is cowardly weakness.
7. Believing or not believing that Jesus Christ of Nazareth loved you enough to die for your sins, but you constantly curse His name is just plain stupid.
What even more stupid, is that you can't even stop yourself from doing it.
As the old saying goes "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
You are of your father, the devil.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 4:24:31 PM
Back up...back up....
Do I deny your experience ?
Nope. it's surly true and I respect your religion a lot.
But what is it with you and your lack of confidence in your religion so that you had to qualified it has a "True" religion...?
Others are not ?
I'm not a very religious person myself so I'm just asking. For me, they're all true...for those who wish too. it's just funny you HAD to make the distinction that yours is TRUE. Very "hard-core" religious driven bs if you ask me.
As for you personal experience with Christianism...I'm glad for you mon ami and respect your vues.
Is it just me or...
"Set-you-Free" try to set Quebec free is very funny...
Are you a Guru of some sort ?
Are you like the messiah des Canadiens Francais du Québec...?
Quebecers are Free; no need for a "set-you-free" to tell me asti !
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 4:27:33 PM
It's interesting where Christianity has and has not grown in East Asia. In South Korea Christianity has grown from almost nonexistence 50 years ago to 26% today, according to the World Almanac. Meanwhile Japan and Taiwan have relatively few Christians, despite being similar pro-Western nations.
Although I wouldn't fully trust the numbers given in this article, the growth of Christianity in China is a good thing from a Western perspective, whether you're a believer or not.
Posted by: JP | 2007-08-09 4:36:42 PM
...one thing Christians must avoid is the numbering debate.
God wants quality, not quantity.
So if there is a move in China, great. If there isn't, time to pray.
Muslims may outnumber Christians in coming days, does this mean Christianity is wrong, or in dire straights?
No, maybe it is God's plan. In the last days, many will fall away.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 4:40:04 PM
Quebecers are slaves of their own arrogance. they are slaves of their bad idea that they should be a separate country within North America.
They are slaves of an obsolete language that only idiots who want a federal government job will bother to learn.
And those people are idiots because in Canada, bilingual means a Frenchman who speaks English and not the reverse.
Quebecers are slaves to the socialism that pervades their province and keeps them a 'have not' region.
Qubecers are slaves of their own ignoble ancestors in France where they have never won a war and have always acted out as weasels on the world stage where they show their ingratitude to anyone who tries to help them or save them from themselves.
France is the most despised nation in the EU and Quebec is the most despised Province in Canada.
Think this will piss off Marde .. I mean Marc.
Posted by: John | 2007-08-09 4:42:21 PM
"God wants quality, not quantity."
Didn't he create the quantity along with the quality. How does he ezplain all the losers he himself created? Are the quantity merely slag in the big religious picture?
Posted by: John | 2007-08-09 4:44:52 PM
God did not create any losers. They created themselves.
And be prepared to be called a redneck. Marc has a limited command of English - the new lingua franca on the world stage.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 4:47:10 PM
...as obc said, losers created themselves.
God gave us free choice. Morals and Rational Thought.
Most of which, seem to be in short supply today.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 4:49:20 PM
Ah, Red Necks, or Rouge Cou
**The Italian says, "When I've a finished a makina da love with ah my
wife, I go down and gently tickle the back of her knees, she floats 6
inches above a da bed in ecstacy."
**The Frenchman replies, "Zat is noting, when Ah've finished making ze
love with ze wife, Ah kiss all ze way down her body and zen Ah lick za
soles of her feet wiz mah tongue and she floats 12 inches above ze bed
in pure ecstasy."
**The redneck says, "That ain't nothing buddy.
When I've finished porkin' the ole lady, I git out of bed, walk over to the winder and wipe my
weener on the curtains. She hits the freakin ceiling.*
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 4:52:05 PM
Me, stupid ?
That's not correct-om.
Without knowing anything about my personal religious beleifs ?
Aaaah, too bad I was looking for IT trainings in Calgary for my clients. I guess I, the devil, now have to send them into a real CTEC; where we dont use that channel to sell religious beleifs along with MSPress.
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 4:53:56 PM
Send them to Newfoundland where all the jobs are.
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-09 4:55:37 PM
"Rouge Cou" ?
The hell is that ?
Do you know what the french version of "Rednecks" is...?
Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-09 4:58:13 PM
...who says moi want to train your clients?
Besides being a mindless drone, we are allowed in Alberta to have independent thought.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 4:59:37 PM
Do you know what the french version of "Rednecks" is...?
Can't take a joke? Geeze, like chaud chien
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 5:01:38 PM
OH, it's not me calling you stupid.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.
Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:8
This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honours me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 5:04:24 PM
...but don't take it personally Marc, I don't even know who you are.
But apologize if it offends you.
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-08-09 5:06:25 PM
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