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Wednesday, August 22, 2007

A Sad Day

Unfortunately two other Van-Doos troopers have been killed by a roadside bomb in southern Afghanistan.

Our thoughts and prayers with the family and friends of these selfless individuals who sacrificed their lives to make our world a better one.

Posted by Winston on August 22, 2007 in Current Affairs, Military | Permalink


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A sad day, indeed. And more reason why we should leave.

"If no one likes to mention the 500,000 figure any more, it's probably because we also realize that nothing remotely like that number will be provided. The US speaks of increasing its commitment by 3200 men, not 320,000. Other countries are at least as cautious; it's not even clear how long they,re willing to maintain their current contributions. So no one expects the West to remake Afghanistan on its own.

Precisely because Western military planners agree they don't have enough troops, it has always been assumed that, as Musharraf says, we will use the locals as canon fodder, and this is what has been done ever since the Americans invaded in 2001. This of course means that Western powers must cooperate with the local powers that be. And this in turn means that even military 'success' will bring failure of The Mission."

source: http://tinyurl.com/282hpw

Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-23 2:37:57 AM


"What of fighting terror? There can be no long-term gains here either. The Taliban alliance with Al Qaeda cannot very well be broken in Afghanistan when it has moved to Pakistan, and even if it could, such alliances would simply reproduce themselves with warlords who remain when the Western troops leave. That's not all. No one even claims that the retention of bases in the region is essential to the operation of anti-Western terrorists, so one wonders on what basis this military occupation can present itself as an important anti-terrorist operation. It seems more likely that the ever popular 'surgical' operations against known individual terrorists are what's needed, and that the invasion is simply an excuse for the inability to mount enough such operations to make any difference. So even if we accept that terror can be fought with military force, the problem seems to be bad intelligence, and that's not solved by troops stomping all over the landscape in a country that for centuries has excelled at confounding occupying armies."

Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-23 2:38:17 AM

Condolences to the families of these brave men.

Redmontonian I clearly recall you stating on another thread there is no Al Qaeda. Its simply made up as is the entire war on terror.

Now your admitting there is?

Is this your Kerry/Clinton impersonation or are you serious?

I'm sure the intelligence over there is never as good as they would like, but the intelligence of moronic posters like you is appalling.

Posted by: deepblue | 2007-08-23 7:13:56 AM

We are there because Afghanistan, under Taliban rule, allowed its territory to be used by Islamist extremists who did repeatedly attack the West, including NATO countries. People like Roger conveniently forget that fact to support their pretence that this is just Bush's war.

Hitler didn't attack Canada either but he was a threat to our security just as Al Qaeda and other Islamist extremists are. The Rogers of this world would see a threat but do nothing until they themselves are attacked directly. I think that when a clear and deadly threat presents itself, it is prudent to act in harmony with like-minded countries to try to neutralize that threat.

Posted by: John Dowell | 2007-08-23 7:16:33 AM

You are referring to two Canadian Soldiers serving as volunteers with the famed Royal 22nd Regiment of the Canadian Army while on duty with NATO Forces
at the request of the legitimate Government of Afghanistan, which will continue until the ruthless and murderuous activities of the Muslim fanatic
Taliban are eliminated and/or the Taliban expelled from Pakistan. They would get a warm welcome in Iran
or the People's Republic of China, predicated on direct confrontation with an Ak 47. MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-23 7:50:11 AM

This second attack on a Quebec regiment and invilving Quebec/French CBC was obviously planned for maximum media impact on the target audience...Quebec.

It should be taken as a stark reminder to us that the enemy watches Canada's media and dissenters closely and hopes to win the war here with public opinion swayed by misdirected media agnst over the conflict....passing info to Talib HQ that took out Vandoos and RC media personel was a master stroke of planning and execution...they knew support for the mission is weakest in Quebec and to smack a Quebec regiment twice and take out Quebec media was meant for maximunm demoralizing effect that the sensationalism of the media will seed.

It should also remind us that to be this accurate on the intel given to Talib terrorist takes domestic enemy informants....there are obviously Taliban agents/sympathizers in Canada passing useful information to the enemy.

Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux | 2007-08-23 8:12:22 AM

Agreed - but DND and CDS staff people anticipated
this, and knew there would be increased pressure put on the latest Canadian Army troop transfer to Afghanistan - there appears to be lots of Taliban
and Muslim fanatic supporters in Canada, particularly in Ontario, Alberta and BC -All the Taliban have to do is link electronically and monitor the anti Military Canadian Media as well
-furthermore there are obviuosly many Afghans who work and support the Taliban directly. MacLeod
-not in the least surprised in Moncton NB

Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-08-23 8:44:08 AM

Their lives are now known completely and indelibly.

The essence of their lives is now described with words like: service, selflessness, self-sacrifice, courage, faithfulness and honor.

They allow us to live in freedom, as we choose.

It isn't free.

Let's do our best daily to ensure their investment in our future was worthy of their faith in the benefits of individual liberty and political freedom.

We grieve and pray for these honorable families.

Posted by: Conrad-USA | 2007-08-23 9:45:25 AM

Thank your Conrad for your thoughts and well chosen words which I think convey the feelings of most Canadians - Jack MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-23 9:49:37 AM

It is sad that these two good soldiers have been killed.
I know they are there to protect our way of life, which is taken for granted by people such as Edmontonian, and to provide an alternative to killing Muslims wholesale by carpet bombing instead of the infantry War of Attrition that our soldiers have been slogging through since 2001.

It can be truly said that they died so that Muslims could live.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-23 10:05:26 AM

The lefties here in Canada and USA, want to give the Taliban/Al Queda/Islamic Radicals a very long rope. They like the feeling of not getting involved, for fear of offending a terrorist, and for extreme fear of being labeled a "racist" by their like minded friends, and have the ill conceived idea that terrorism (radical Islam) can't come here for we are so isloated from them. They don't believe terrorism can develop as long as we are "nice", under estimating the extreme hatred that exists toward infidels. But, as long as they give the benefit of doubt, deny all prospects of danger here and feel good about their liberal, PC, shangrila ideals, nothing else matters. Meanwhile, the evil creeps all over the globe, with a "it's none of our business" attitude. Stand for nothing and one will be nothing eventually.

And back on topic, God bless our troops.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 10:34:43 AM

Sadly, now that we are starting to lose some Quebecers, political concerns may effect Harpers resolve to stay the course.

Condolences to the families of the slain and great thanks for their selfless service to the cause of freedom for all.

Posted by: John | 2007-08-23 10:40:23 AM

John, true. Canada will most likely pull out by Feb 2009. Unfortunately that will make it all for nothing and the radical scourge of Islam will reinstate itself in Afghanistan only to become a factory of hate again against the west. And that will be quite OK with many, cause it's none of our business.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 10:50:25 AM

I extend my heartfelt condolences to the families in Quebec, who have lost their loved ones. We know there are many Quebecers who are in Afghanistan, either in heart and/or body, who do believe in the importance of ensuring that peace, prosperity, and human rights, are there for all--and that the islamfacists get to meet their maker.

Posted by: Lady | 2007-08-23 10:50:47 AM

The statement "your either for us or against us" is applicable in the fight against terrorism, there's just no in between.
Terrorism is fed by hatred of Western civilizations, made up of what the Islamic book of instruction calls "Infidels", those not of the Islamic faith. Whether they're radicals is not for us to know, many of those of that faith seem to have little understanding of it as well.

WMLR, no doubt about the presence in our own country of terrorist supporters. We have evidence of that even from some fanatics who comment on this site.

It's going to take a lot of strong will on our part to make a dent in places like Afghanistan, it will also take time. There is a huge problem with communication on progress being made there. The Lefty press are just not giving us the straight goods, it doesn't fit their agenda.

Hopefully our Intelligence people are keeping a close eye on all who hail from the Tinderboxes of the ME whether or not they are citizens or trying to become citizens or illegals.

Racial profiling is the cry from the Leftists, so be it,we would never rely on them to keep our world safe. If your looking for rats you don't check out pigeons.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-23 10:57:27 AM

To edmontonian and any other Islamic appeaser, this link is why our troops are in Afghanistan.


Posted by: Markalta | 2007-08-23 11:41:39 AM

It looks like it is safer to be a soldier in Afghanistan, even on the front lines, than it is to live in Toronto.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 11:44:24 AM

"Racial Profiling" was created in to the Toronto left wing media almost exclusively -generated by pro left Professors in every "University" in GTA -but in certain circumstances "racial profiling" is absolutely necessary especially if one is a Police Officer searching the streets and allyways of Toronto for instance for black, brown short or tall gunmen - Canadian Passports are unquestionably a racial profile - but lets see Taliban Professor and Muslim Terror Supporter from Canada try to access any other Country in our World without one. Macleod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-23 11:47:06 AM


Three die in stabbing attacks in, well you guessed it, Toronto!

Why don't the lefties try to do something about that instead of directing their attention on the war in Afghanistan? Probably because calling to bring the troops home is easier than tackling crime in Toronto , which is impossible to solve.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 11:47:09 AM

Pike, that's over the edge.
To use the deaths of two Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan to promote your hatred of Toronto is despicable.

Posted by: atric | 2007-08-23 11:49:08 AM

I merely compared the faulty priorities of the Toronto people and their leftie allies who think it's paradise. It isn't, and in fact it is better to be over there than over here. Sad, huh.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 11:54:34 AM

Pike, you have innumerable opportunities to trash Toronto and their leftie allies. Fair enough,I happen to agree with you, but on this thread? C'mon, a little respect.

Posted by: atric | 2007-08-23 12:12:25 PM

Well okay.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 12:21:01 PM

Well they are at it. Didn't take long.


Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 12:28:32 PM

I don't agree with atric - Canadian MSM are dedicated to undermining Canadian Troops in Afghanistan, plus all NATO and US Troops, or anyone or group who do not fit into their agenda. I note that DebkaFile Tel Aviv always reports on the wounding or deaths of Canadian Soldiers in Afghanistan, with a high degree of remorse, because Israeli's know what fighting the Muslim Horde costs
-I agree with Pike - we live in the real world. MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-23 12:40:23 PM

Three heroes KIA and he's already willing to quit?

Duceppe has set the new world's record for willingness to surrender! Even France held out for six weeks in 1940 before succumbing to the Nazis.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 12:59:16 PM

Duceppe says he will "take down the Government"
unless Canada withdraws from 'The Ghan by February
2009 - tells me that he has made a deal with that little Fart Citoyen Dion -who fled from Military service in the Army of the Republic of France to
become an academic at the University of Moncton
New Brunswick -which ain't really a University -more like a unilingual community college. They got a good hockey team though -Dion did'nt try out for Hockey

Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-08-23 1:05:03 PM

And Layton would surrender in two seconds flat if it were up to him. He'll join Duce ppe for sure.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 1:05:54 PM

"Duceppe says he will "take down the Government"
unless Canada withdraws from 'The Ghan by February

Big deal.
The end of 2009 is almost time for an election anyway. Since 1993 there have been 5 federal elections thanks to ol'Screw Face's ego.

By 2009 Global Warming will have been widely exposed for the crock it is, the U.S. will have their Presidential election behind them, G.W. Bush will be an ex-President, and the LPC's only plank, that Stephen Harper is 'scary', will be well and truly dead.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-23 1:15:33 PM

Soldiers call him "Taliban Jack" -you are right Sounder -on a more positive note NDP may be decimented by the Greens led by Saint Elizabeth
May - Macleod

Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-08-23 1:19:17 PM

The trouble is in this country is that mainstream media is Lie-beral biased and has been for many years and will continue to undermine Harper and his efforts at every chance it will get. The so called Fiberal "establishment" in Ottawa is not at all impressed with an Albertan occupying 24 sussex drive, and none to impressed with Alberta's growing economic and political influence on the national stage!
Lets not forget that we and the USA are in this together, meaning that many terrorists are hiding here alive and well, and with a previous Hamas, hezbollah, Iran friendly Liberal party were given pretty much a free ride in this country. The Liberal;s took us here to begin with, check out chretiens Feb.12, 2003 address in parliament when he committed combat troops to afganistan. It is sad that the 2 soldiers from the van doos died, but the francophones must realize that this is the price that may need to be paid for freedom. also the Van doos have a few skeletons in their closet if you can remeber 1993 somalia? Shidane Arone?, how about Croatia in 1996/ When some members of VanDoos had sex with mental patients? TSk, Tsk...

Posted by: tdw26 | 2007-08-23 1:20:19 PM

Somehow the spectacle of Panty Waist Dion in an Army uniform doesn't make me feel protected.

As for Duceppe, he's playing Quebec politics, nothing else matters to him. It's up to the real Canadians of Quebec to sort him out.
It's hard to understand how the people of Quebec would go against the grain when their own regiment of guys and gals are in the field. It denigrates the lives of those lost, three from the 'Doo's already have paid the ultimate price, to leave or question such a mission is to say they died for naught.
The Regiment is not questioning the mission, perhaps Duceppe should have a chat with them.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-23 1:26:44 PM

There was a time in this country when respect was shown to whoever was elected Prime Minister by the people, but sadly, no longer and that is not a plus in the eyes of the world, especially the terrorist's world.

It seems we're going against ourselves and our country when we denigrate our PM constantly from what he wears, to how he wears his hair and other features which have nothing whatever to do with the running of the affairs of Government. That's what comprises the rotten News media across the board.
In a roundabout way, they are enemies of the country.

Their reportage from the Afghanistan mission is a disgrace and closer to aiding the enemy than keeping us abreast of something even close to what is going on.

The rotters got rid of the best Minister of Defence we've had in decades, now they'll move on to more mischief over substance.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-23 1:41:25 PM

LizJ, right on! and the enemy knows all this is true and how to manipulate us. We've surrendered already actually.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 1:48:50 PM

Condolences to the families of these brave men.

Redmontonian I clearly recall you stating on another thread there is no Al Qaeda. Its simply made up as is the entire war on terror.

Now your admitting there is?

Is this your Kerry/Clinton impersonation or are you serious?

I'm sure the intelligence over there is never as good as they would like, but the intelligence of moronic posters like you is appalling.

Posted by: deepblue | 23-Aug-07 7:13:56 AM

DB, I was quoting someone else, if you did not notice. However, I do agree with most of what is said in the article I am quoting.

Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-23 1:52:28 PM

"We've surrendered already actually."
Posted by: Sounder | 23-Aug-07 1:48:50 PM

We'll see how the Americans vote come November 2008.
It's up to them and then maybe it's up to us.
If the Americans elect a Dem, goodbye Afghanistan and goodbye Stephen Harper.

All of the sad deaths of all our soldiers will be a lot sadder then.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-23 1:54:03 PM

Speller I think the US will get out of Iraq except for some small advisory people or trainers or a small specific mission, but will hang on in Afghanistan where the public are more supportive.

However, if you don't weed the weedy flower bed next to the good one, you soon have weeds in both, again.

And thats what the public is missing here and the politicians won't come out and explain in clear talk what exactly will eventually happen over there.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 2:01:00 PM

Harper looks better every time when I compare him to the antics of Duceppe, Layton, May and Dion. He actually stands for the people, not privileged interests. He actually makes a decision and stands by to its completion. He's not perfect but he's way better than the alternatives.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 2:11:32 PM


If the U.S. pulls out of Iraq, all the Jihadis in Iraq will be freed up to fight in Afghanistan.
The T-camps in Waziristan and Baluchistan won't be sending their al-Qa'eda grads to Iraq anymore, it'll be a shorter march to Afghanistan and Baluchistan borders on Iran.

The Democratic base doesn't want ANY war.
Not Iraq, not Afghanistan, no war anywhere if it is in the national interest of the U.S. instead of just some 'humanitarian' cause that benefits the U.S. nothing in terms of national interest.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-23 2:12:10 PM

Speller: while you are correct about terrorists going to Afghanistan following the US withdrawal from Iraq, what about the rise in number of US troops there as well? They could easily double the number in Afghanistan, most with combat experience, and bring a speedier end to the Taliban there. Likewise for the British. It might even make it easier for other countries to contribute combat-ready forces to ISAF. It's worth a try.

The Dems say they don't support any war, but who knows what the really thing. Support for Congress right now is lower even than Bush's ratings. Go figure!

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 2:21:58 PM


There is a huge belief in U.S. Democrat circles that President Bush dynamited the WTC and missiled the Pentagon to start the war in Afghanistan for oil.
They don't even believe that Osama Bin Laden was behind it, if they do... they think Crazy Sammy is a paid and trained tool of the CIA, and to end it all..... they think if, IF, it really was the 9/11 19 skyjackers, that these skyjackers were a 'one-off' and there is no further need to fight a war on the other side of the world because 9/11 was just the act of a bunch of poverty poor criminals who are now dead and NOT the end result of a movement based on the importance of Jihad's place in the religion of Islam.

The Dems are going to pull out of the GWT, including Afghanistan, because their voter base believes it is just a construct to serve Chimpy McBush and his NeoCon associate's agenda.

Stephen Harper, no matter how 'good' he is in shear comparison to the last two Prime Ministers, cannot survive politically if he is Prime Minister when the Dems pull the plug on the whole war.

No government of a democracy can survive politically after losing a war.
(regardless of the fact that the Liberals committed Canada to Afghanistan in the first place, NO substatial part of the voting population will remember or care about this fact)

Members of Stephen Harper's own party will be the first ones with the knives out if the Dems shut the war down in Afghanistan.
(and they will if the Dems win the WH)

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-23 2:36:27 PM


Look for an Abraham Lincoln-type solution.

If you're going to win a war, you have to go all-out. And, it looks like the chicken-s**t politicians are finally giving the troops on the ground the resources they need to win.

At least, that was the theory being floated on Glenn Beck last night on CNN.

Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-23 2:37:41 PM

SYF: great idea! We can unleash Sherman tactics on Waziristan like he did to Georgia.

Best part is that they can't hate us anymore than they already do. Call it open season.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-08-23 2:51:09 PM

The battles in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot be won between now and the 2008 Presidential election with infantry forces who have a little air and armor support. That is a War of Attrition.

Unlike Dixie, Iraq and Afghanistan are bordered by hostile states who are patrons and beneficiaries of the continuing war.

Unlike Dixie, Iraq and Afghanistan are Muslim not Christian countries, have no democratic tradition and justly applied rule of law, have tribal warlord factions who won't stay bought, a tradition of corruption going back eons, and a continuing influx of foreign fighters and supplies from outside of the targeted areas of pacification.

The enemy we are fighting is not hampered by political or humanitarian considerations or even moderate deaths. The enemy have no concept of unacceptable losses and the U.S. is going to wind this all up like Sherman's sweep through Dixie inside of the next 14 months after going toe to toe in Afghanistan since November 2001 and Iraq since the summer of 2003?

I don't think so.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-08-23 3:00:09 PM

Bush's mistake was not naming the enemy and exactly why after 9/11. The populace is confused, and the Dems are always confused in these matters as the NDP and most Libs are in Canada. Conspiracy theories abound with such shallowness.

As I said before, the Dems will pull the plug, Canada will pull the plug, but, so we all feel better, will still send millions of dollars to be used to buy (squander) everthing Iraq and Afghanistan don't need. Now the Bleeding Heart Libs and Dems will be so happy, great world citzens, libertarians, and declare, see we are doing our part, peacefully, and no war required!

And then both "gardens" will be full of "weeds" (thorns)again!

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 3:14:55 PM

Look for an Abraham Lincoln-type solution.

If you're going to win a war, you have to go all-out. And, it looks like the chicken-s**t politicians are finally giving the troops on the ground the resources they need to win.

At least, that was the theory being floated on Glenn Beck last night on CNN.

Posted by: set you free | 23-Aug-07 2:37:41 PM

I agree with this. Let the Military planners do their job and bring in the 500 000 troops required to bring democracy. Otherwise, committing 2500 basically means nothing in this Occupation. Harper should tell Bush to commit the troops for the War he started or Canada will withdraw all troops.

Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-23 3:25:38 PM

"Duceppe has set the new world's record for willingness to surrender"

Duceppe is against Harper's agenda since day one for not consulting any of the provinces regarding our "plan". Well, almost any.

Duceppe always had the same regards while it was other young canadians dying for not much.
Duceppe is not cowarding right now U american: he's asking Harper to be a real man by facying everybody (provincially elected people) and discuss about "the plan". A thing him and is group are lacking seriously on almost every issues.


"As for Duceppe, he's playing Quebec politics, nothing else matters to him."


"It's up to the real Canadians of Quebec to sort him out."


"It's hard to understand how the people of Quebec would go against the grain when their own regiment of guys and gals are in the field."

It's called "caring about your owns"; something you lost somewhere in time.
It's been 5 years Lizzie and we're not seeing any real changes and the people there dont wanna hear from us. THE PEOPLE, you hear ???
In fact, there's never been such dangers for our troops than in this present time. Still, we keep being the only country who REALLY fight and die in Afstan while others are too busy stealing some oil elsewhere. Those are the ones who've been attacked by people hidden in Afghanistan.
Heck, am I a coward for speaking the truth ? Don't think so; and I'm not dumb enought to be fed with crap neither.


"Harper looks better every time when I compare him to the antics of Duceppe [...]. He actually stands for the people, not privileged interests."

What is that...a joke ?

Posted by: Marc | 2007-08-23 3:28:34 PM

Stop the lawyers from running wars would help too.

Posted by: Sounder | 2007-08-23 3:29:57 PM

This is an evil enemy like no other we have ever dealt with. None of us know how long it will take or WHAT it will take to sort it out.
There are no precedents, no experts in this fight against this scourge of the century. We can only keep on keeping on with the fight to put them down.
What it will take to do the job is still not known.

It may well be down to whatever evolves,even to the worst case scenario which would be all out war with the ME. The world cannot sit by and watch and wait for them to disrupt our lives and terrorize people anywhere they please.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-23 3:34:10 PM


What business is it of Duceppe to sit in judgement of somebody who exercises their free choice to join the armed forces?

No. 2: Do you know something I don't? I thought the only oil coming out of Afghanistan is hash oil.

Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-23 3:36:58 PM

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