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Monday, July 16, 2007

Hating Hogtown

A mischievous documentary about why and how Canadians hate Toronto actually seems to have some real insights, including:  In a country threatened by political divisions and western alienation for years, hating Toronto is a great unifier.

Posted by Terry O'Neill on July 16, 2007 in Humour | Permalink


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Wonder if Zebulon Pike will be commenting on this.

Posted by: atric | 2007-07-16 10:31:43 AM

"Although Montreal would likely be the most fervant Toronto-hater in the country because of long-standing sports and cultural rivalries, Spence and Nerenberg found that's not the case."


"long-standing sports and cultural rivalries"

We beat them in those two "markets" since always...why would Montrealers would be more "Toronto haters" than others...?

Nobody I know hate this town. The only comments we often hear in Mtl regarding Toronto is that "they roll the pavements after 9 pm"...

Do we hate them ? I guess saying Montrealers just dont care about Toronto would be a better analysis. There's just one question that goes tru my mind right now...Why does those two are comming to Montreal to promote their movie while Toronto should be a much better place in those circomstances...?

Posted by: Marc | 2007-07-16 11:10:12 AM

Did he talk to Jane Creba's family?

And now it's coming to Calgary.

"Police say they do not think the men who cut a bloody and deadly swath across the city this week intended to kill any of their victims.

But they still can't say why the group of suspects -- said to be three to four black men in their 20s -- went on a stabbing spree striking five people in various parts of the city in little more than an hour early Wednesday."

Don't say you weren't warned!

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-16 1:21:42 PM

The worst Toronto hatred is definitely found in Hamilton. I guess they used to be rivals 150 years ago or something. They used to have a tourism slogan "This ain"t Toronto!" I've seen fake protesters holding "Toronto sucks!" signs, about 50 of them on one corner, no shit. I drove by and shouted: You wish, suckers.

Hamilton is a shitty city with great people while Toronto is a great city with...well, you get the picture.

Posted by: JP | 2007-07-16 2:51:33 PM

Oh wait wait...
I remember be sitting at the stadium yelling, with 10 thousand people, "4-0-1! 4-0-1! 4-0-1...!" @ the Argos for like 20 minutes...
Does that count ?

Posted by: Marc | 2007-07-16 3:08:33 PM

Marc wrote: Oh wait wait...
I remember be sitting at the stadium yelling, with 10 thousand people, "4-0-1! 4-0-1! 4-0-1...!" @ the Argos for like 20 minutes...
Does that count ?

Hey Marc, as a Blue Jays fan I don't really follow the National League, how are the Expos doing?

Posted by: St Albion Parish News | 2007-07-16 3:28:21 PM

Hamilton: The population is 90% White. It has very small numbers of South Asian/East Indian: 2.10%, Black: 2.00%, Chinese: 1.29%, and mixed race: 1.03%.

Toronto: As of 2001, 42.8% of the residents of the city proper belong to a visible minority group, and visible minorities are projected to comprise a majority in Toronto by 2017.

Montreal: Some 13.55 percent of the population are members of a visible minority (non-white) group.

Yeah, we get the picture JP.

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-16 3:42:21 PM

Mouhahahahahahhahaaaa !!!!
I dunno, do like everybody else on the Shotgun.
...ask Washignton.

Ok, I've found one of my favorites but I'm short after that...
No more hate than that from Mtl.



Posted by: Marc | 2007-07-16 3:46:25 PM

Where did you get those stats DJ?. I live in Hamilton and there is NO WAY 90% of the population is White! Most of them are Italian! This is the destination of choice for Somali Muslims and other degenerate classes of people as well. You better update your stats.
I agree with JP that Hamiltonians hate Toronto's guts.

Posted by: Jerry Atric | 2007-07-16 3:53:24 PM

Stats are Census 2001.

Italians aren't white?

"This is the destination of choice for Somali Muslims and other degenerate classes of people as well."

Sad times for Steel town.

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-16 3:59:33 PM


Visible minorities make up 37% of both Greater Toronto and Greater Vancouver, total population 6.7 million. More than 60% of Canada's vis.min. population live in just these two metropolitan areas. This is New Canada, the third solitude created by recent (mostly in the last forty years) Third World immigration.

It's probably too late for Toronto and Vancouver. So the choice before Canadians is do we also want Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Montreal and Halifax to become non-white cities as well? Or are we going to drastically reduce immigration? Those are the only two choices.

Posted by: JP | 2007-07-16 4:17:04 PM

During the last "referndumb" a bumper sticker prevalent in Vancouver read: "If Quebec separates, make them take Toronto."

I speak as an immigrant who came to Canada with no axe to grind and never having been here before. Toronto was my first stop having been thus advised by the embassy immigration official who interviewed me to assess my suitability.

My first job offer required a move to Alberta and I was stunned by the negative reactions of the Toronto friends I had made.

I later ended up living in TO for a couple of years. It's a great city for many reasons and I enjoyed being single there. My move out coincided with TO hosting the (then) G7 conference with its media oohing and aahing about finally being being "World Class."

The fact is that Torontians have a rather insufferable attitude about too many things but it's still a good place to visit.

Posted by: greenmamba | 2007-07-16 4:19:50 PM

Toronto= Sodom.

Mississauga= Gommorah (or however it is spelled).

'Nuff said. We avoid the place like the plague.

Posted by: Hoser | 2007-07-16 7:57:09 PM

LOL Marc, loved that link, got a chuckle. Mhm.

Ok I live in the West, so what I say is Toronto????

What is this "Toronto"?

Vancouver I know, Calgary I know, Edmonton mall I've heard of, but this Toronto you speak of.........


They have no oil, no mountains, no sea coast and no poutine!

Bah! Away with them!

Actually I've been there a few times, and the subway was an interesting experiance. I like Cityline TV's decor show on Thursdays that originates in Toronto so

on second thought, I'll let them eke out their living as best they can.

Live and let live, that is the libertarian in me coming up for air.

Posted by: canadian freedoms fan | 2007-07-16 8:47:33 PM

The problem isn't immigration, it is assimilation. I once spent two weeks attending a course in Toronto and enjoyed everything but the heat and the humidity. Torontonians treated me well as did Quebecers when I spent two weeks working there one summer. The jazz room at the old Clarendon hotel has outstanding talent. A little intercity rivalry in healthy. Start out with a healthy attitude and enjoy yourselves.

Posted by: DML | 2007-07-16 9:37:27 PM

"The problem isn't immigration, it is assimilation."

Isn't that what Sitting Bull said?

"When I was a boy the Sioux owned the world; the sun rose and set on their land; they sent ten thousand men to battle. Where are the warriors today? Who slew them? Where are our lands? Who owns them?

Is it wrong for me to love my own? Is it wicked for me because my skin is red? Because I am Lakota, because I was born where my father dies, because I would die for my people and my country?"

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-16 10:19:59 PM

In 1971, Toronto was 4% non-European. It is now almost 50% non-European. What has been gained over thirty years of non-European immigration?


"Extreme poverty is a daily reality for more than half of the members of the Bangladeshi, Somali, Afghan, and Ethiopian ethno-racial groups, the 2001 census reveals. Their family incomes fell below Statistic�s Canada�s "low income cut-off" � the most commonly used standard for measuring poverty in Canada. Three groups faced poverty rates of between 40 and 50 per cent, and 14 other groups, five of them African and including Aboriginals, had poverty rates of between 30 and 40 per cent.

"Although every ethno-racial group experiences some poverty, many groups are facing extraordinary economic difficulty," says ISR Director Michael Ornstein, author of the report. "The magnitude of global differences in family income is not decreasing -- quite the opposite."

Some groups face poverty levels that have remained about the same for 30 years. In 1971, Caribbean ethno-racial groups had 21.7 per cent of their members below the poverty line, compared to 25.2 per cent in 1981, 21 per cent in 1991, and 22.2 percent in 2001. These statistics alone only begin to describe the story. Ornstein notes that "because the low income cut-off figure does not account for Toronto's very high housing costs, these numbers, if anything, underestimate the extent of poverty."

"As the population from non-European groups in Canada has increased from about four per cent in 1971 to about 40 per cent in 2001, the racialization of poverty has increased," says Ornstein."

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-16 10:45:40 PM


Are we supposed to feel sorry that Ontario is reaping the rewards of developing a misguided immigration industry.

Quite a few lawyers got rich off this trade in humanity.

At some point, the former economic engine of Canada will have to realize exactly where their politicians led them.

I agree with Allan Fotheringham. Canada would be a great country if only we could convince Toronto to separate.

Posted by: set you free | 2007-07-16 10:53:22 PM

"Is it wrong for me to love my own? Is it wicked for me because my skin is red? Because I am Lakota, because I was born where my father dies, because I would die for my people and my country?"

Yeah, that Sitting Bull sure was a true Patriote. Many canadians should remember or at least try to learn from that wise man. Thing is DJ, immigrants dosent come here to invade but for a promess of a better life. Keep ignoring your new neibors and you too will finish inna tv ad...

Posted by: Marc | 2007-07-16 10:53:34 PM

Ontario did not develop a misguided immigration industry. Ottawa did.

Calgary's next.

"Keep ignoring your new neibors and you too will finish inna tv ad..."

That's the whole point Marc;

"When I was a boy the Sioux owned the world; the sun rose and set on their land; Where are our lands? Who owns them?"

When I was a boy Toronto was almost all European origin. When my sun sets Europeans will ask the same questions as Sitting Bull.

"Where are our lands? Who owns them?"

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-16 11:40:29 PM

DJ and others,

Whites as a collective do not own anything, but individual whites do.
Blacks as a collective do not own anything, but individual blacks do.

To even speak in terms of "our lands" is a collectivist/socialist misunderstanding (or desinformation).

Concerning the topic at hand: Toronto has many nice aspects, and I love to go there from time to time. But it certainly isn't "world class" in the sense of NYC or London or Rome. Unfortunately, some torontonians believe it is, which is irritating to those of us who has seen the world (somewhat).

Posted by: Johan i Kanada | 2007-07-17 4:19:08 AM

OK DJ, so I was joking about the Italians. All my in-laws are Italian and we have a long standing joke about it. In any event, I must tell you that those 2000 census figures would not stand up today. During Sheila Copps heyday she went on a spending dpree to attract immigrants to Hamilton to better reflect the "multicultural nature of the City". Hamilton is now home to the second-largest Muslim population in Canada. It would be interesting to see what the latest census figures reflect.

Posted by: Atric | 2007-07-17 7:39:43 AM

Collective; characteristic of individuals acting together; "a joint identity".

Whites as a collective own a shared identity. Even Mills recognised that liberty can only exist in a homogeneous group. Paradox: true individualism - which has been historically found only in the West - can only be preserved by a relative shift in the continuum in the direction of collectivism.

Posted by: DJ | 2007-07-17 12:37:33 PM

"Hating Hogtown"

If the word "hate" is in the title, you can count on DJ posting.

Posted by: obc | 2007-07-17 12:42:53 PM

...there was a time I really like Toronto and was envious (in a nice way) of how clean and polite the people were there when I was there visiting.

That was before the CN tower went up. Since then, well, it isn't the same city.


Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-07-17 12:43:43 PM

You are correct, tomax7 - bit I take issue on it's being the CN Tower's fault. After all, it's just an inanimate object! :)

Posted by: obc | 2007-07-17 1:01:08 PM

Well not CN Tower's fault, but symbolic like a lightening rod for self-indulgence and worship.

Calgary, sadly is becoming like that, but our tower is hidden amidst the booming office towers being built.

The symbolical meaning is different, we like to keep ours in our pa...

Umm, skip it.

Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-07-17 1:14:34 PM

lol! !

Posted by: obc | 2007-07-17 1:31:04 PM

You can't call it Hogtown anymore. That's insensitive to certain segments of it's diverse population who are hyper-offended by porcine references.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-07-17 4:19:50 PM

Hi all, sorry for the very late reply. I've just moved to the US, to the Deep South as a matter of fact where it is rather hot. My internet connection has not yet been established so I'm doing this from work.

Well what can I say - I feel vindicated that others feel the same way about that place as I do. That's all I'm going to say about this.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-19 9:07:54 AM

What's this I hear about innocent people being killed or injured by a truck in Toronto? Gasp! Say it ain't so! Why is it that no one guilty is ever harmed in Toronto?

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-19 9:11:48 AM


I have been to Greater Vancouver, many times, and there is simply nothing wrong with the minority population there, whatsoever. I have found them to be polite, and well spoken--including Asians and Orientals. They work hard--in other words they have a great work ethic--and they even do a pretty good job at speaking English. In fact, many speak six or seven languages. You, on the other hand, have but one.

Posted by: Lady | 2007-07-19 9:41:55 AM


Well said--in fact if it were said three or four times, in the title, you could count on both JP and DJ posting 90% of the time!

Let's give it a try--How about a title remake.

'Hate, hate, hate, and hating Hogtown!'


Posted by: Lady | 2007-07-19 9:45:00 AM

If the city changed it's name to incorporate the two names, say Toronto-Hogtown, would there be a mass exodus of those opposed to Hogs?

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-07-19 10:42:53 AM

Toronto has the lowest crime rate of any city in English Canada. Statistics Canada data 2005 for 27 major metropolitan areas show only Saguenay, Quebec City, Trois-Rivieres and Sherbrooke with lower crime rates than Toronto.

The 5 highest crime rate cities were Saskatoon, Regina, Abbotsford, Vancouver and Winnipeg.

Posted by: JP | 2007-07-21 4:16:21 PM

if the city changed it's name to incorporate the two names, say Toronto-Hogtown,

Like Ottawa - Hull or should that be ull

Posted by: St Albion Parish News | 2007-07-21 4:41:46 PM

I say do what my namesake did in 1813 - burn Toronto to the ground, but this time pour salt on the ruins to make sure nothing grows there ever again.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-21 4:57:39 PM

I say do what my namesake did in 1813 - burn Toronto to the ground, but this time pour salt on the ruins to make sure nothing grows there ever again.

Tell the whole story. What else happened to Pike at York(Toronto).

Posted by: St Albion Parish News | 2007-07-21 5:08:45 PM

Oh yes, he was martyred. People routinely go to Toronto and get killed. What a pity. When Toronto is razed to the ground, the new community (if we choose to build one) should be renamed Pikesville in his honor.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-21 5:10:38 PM

Oh yes, he was martyred.

bwahahaha. He was killed by a piece of flying rock. Nothing heroic about it. You might be able to argue that AP Hill or Jackson were martyrs for their cause, but Pike was nothing but a historic sidenote.

Posted by: St Albion Parish News | 2007-07-21 5:20:38 PM

Pike was a great man, equivalent to Isaac Brock - cut short at his moment of glory.

AP Hill died just days from the end of the war, while Jackson was wounded by his own men - he died not of their bullets but of pneumonia. Neither were truly martyrs except to those who believed in the Lost Cause.

Both, however, fought for the Southern Confederacy which was based on human slavery, surely one of the most tragic of causes. Pike died trying to deliver to his nation's enemies a blow from which they would understand that America was not to be violated. The War of 1812 helped ensure a general North American peace that has lasted nearly two centuries.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-21 5:25:27 PM

Pike was a great man, equivalent to Isaac Brock - cut short at his moment of glory.

Pike was a military nobody. If it wasn't for his expeditions to the west nobody would remember him.

Posted by: St Albion Parish News | 2007-07-21 5:31:52 PM

Four people, including one child, shot dead in Toronto over the weekend. So much for Toronto's reputation as a safe, tolerant city.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-22 9:33:30 AM

Hey Zeb, I heard that one time, a couple guys went to NYC and got KILLED, and nobody ever done found out who did it!

Posted by: Um yeah | 2007-07-26 8:25:10 PM

It was me, but if you tell anyone I'll have to . . .

Posted by: obc | 2007-07-26 8:31:51 PM

Is that proof of anything? Maybe they were criminals (most Ontarians are) and found the wrong crowd there - it has been known to happen there...and everywhere else. Your statements are proof of nothing, except maybe how shallow and trite Ontarians are.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-07-26 8:36:37 PM

AHA! We finally have found what is the trouble with tribbles - I mean trolls. And the irony is the source is their favourite news site:

Smoking pot may increase the risk for the type of psychosis commonly associated with schizophrenia, and the risk increases with each puff, a new British study reports. Occasional smokers were 40 per cent more likely to suffer from psychosis, while dedicated tokers who used marijuana daily or weekly increased their risk by 50 to 200 per cent.


Posted by: obc | 2007-07-26 8:41:27 PM

"Like Ottawa - Hull or should that be ull"
...it's Gatineau.



Posted by: Marc | 2007-07-26 10:47:06 PM


I hear pot smokers are afraid of drinkers.

Posted by: set you free | 2007-07-27 12:09:15 AM

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