The Shotgun Blog
Saturday, June 09, 2007
My Own Country
I've learned a lot by travelling around the world. It's enhanced my view of the world and its people. It has also taught me things you can't learn by reading thousands of pages of articles or books. Right now, I'm travelling in the States and you can certainly follow me through my weblog.
I did also write a long blog entry on how some immigrants perceive their new North American countries through two personal experiences that I recently had here in the States and in Canada.
The fact that many of these people have chosen freely to come to either Canada or America, really means that you'd also expect them to be more Canadian or American than the average native citizens when it comes to choosing between their old homelands and their new ones. Basically, it is this: You chose freely to come here so you ought to identify yourself with the new country and stop claiming to be the citizen of your previous country. You can read my entry here.
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I don't see an issue with people belonging to more than one country at the same time. People have British Passports and Canadian Passports at the same time. People have duo American/Canadian and it is not a problem. If they are staying in Canada, they should know that they have to be Canadians first and foremost. They then become, by virtue of them being here, American ex-patriots.
What I have an issue with, is when people live off of another country, such as America, Britain or Canada--of add a whole host of others as well, and then turn around and plot against it. There is a word for it--it is called treason.
And why anyone would want to keep citizenship in such places as do say horrid things, about the nation they are patriotizing, is totally beyond me. If they want to BE Iranians, and not Americans, or Canadians or whatever other place they are citizens of, then they should just BE Iranians. The nation of Iran has proven to the world, over and over again, that it is being run by despots, who want to destroy the west. They have not hesitated in killing hundreds of thousands of their own people. There is no doubt in my mind, that they are going to try to do what it is they have said they are going to do. So, as far as I can see, people who choose to retain citizenship in such nations as those that are plotting against other free nations, should be stripped of their western citizenship, and sent down the road. If they love their homeland so very much, then they should really put their energies into rectifying it, instead of hiding away in the very nation that their nation, plots to destroy. It is not the money, or the support they get, but the hypocracy they live, that bugs the "h" outta me!
Posted by: Lady | 2007-06-09 11:43:12 PM
Lady, the Iranian government has posed threats to the world since 1979. Before that the government of Iran was an ally of the west and Israel and part of NATO. Please stop making historical mistakes by just putting words together that really doesn't mean much. Let's remember most mideastern nations are held hostage by a few idiots and Iranian people are not our enemy. Thnx!
Posted by: Winston | 2007-06-10 1:48:26 AM
"Lady, the Iranian government has posed threats to the world since 1979"
. . . thanks to that uber-idiot Leftist Nobel "Peace" Prize winning peanut farmer. Thank God Ronald Reagan ousted him from the White House!
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-10 4:47:21 AM
Iran has never been nor ever will be a member of NATO - Iran is a major threat to World Peace and must be punished for the murder of allied soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Winston the expert of the F-15 (this is where I laugh) needs a course in fundemental English and contemporary History -The United States manipulated Iran as an "ally" to annoy the Russians - the way to "fix" Iran is for Saudi and other Middle East oil producers to drop their barrelhead price to at least 40% lower than Iran's -
which woould be a financial,disaster for those Raghead goat herders - MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-06-10 7:54:53 AM
The Terrorist or Despotic Totalitarian governments of Iran and Syria and formerly in Iraq all operate on fear. Unfortunately a large segment of their populations is complicit in the terror and fearsome murderous actions against their fellow citizens.
The "insurgency" in Iraq is mainly the 60% of the Sunni's who were complicit in Sadaam's murderous reign. The Sunni's are 20% of the 25 million population of Iraq. That 60% of 20% of 25 million is three million people guilty of terrorist murder against their own country men.
We are engaged in helping Iraq reconcile this catastrophe WITHOUT (well justified) murderous retribution.
This could easily be described as a fool's errand, but it is probably the exact same situation all over the Middle East (Iran may well have an even higher percentage of terrorist-complicit citizens since that rotten government has made greater use of "religious" traditions of its people to foist evil on their nation.
Americans sometimes speak of our nation as an "experiment" in freedom. Fighting this war in Iraq (and I would LOVE for it to sweep over both Iran and Syria this afternoon) is again an experiment in freedom for the ultimate benefit of a large portion of the people presently living on earth.
I support this war effort, just as it is, very costly, very measured and careful to support local control and not merely kill everyone who "needs killing" in one day. The experiment is to plant freedom in a place where we haven't seen it grow before.
It takes time to rebuild the conditions where people will take a chance and believe that they can be free.
America will freely decide how much time and how much cost we will invest in creating the possibility of freedom for Iraqi people and thus for the rest of the Middle East.
Americans who had the opportunity to learn the actual "culture" of America are supportive of good things like that. Very idealistic.
The "realists" that is the Atheists and Communists, et al say it is all for the oil or for our macho control of the world.
Winston, while you travel around America try to get a sense of how idealistic versus realistic the people are. Both types can be American citizens, but one has a bright American future, the other has the future of Europe as a childless museum of Rights (to abortion and homosexual "marriage" etc.).
Posted by: Conrad-USA | 2007-06-10 9:02:06 AM
I'm all in favour of the US pulling its troops out of Iraq - with the understanding that they exit via Iran!
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-10 9:11:20 AM
Childess museum of Rights. I like it.
A brilliant description of where the loud minority spokesmen of societal norms reside.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-06-10 9:13:23 AM
How far back in time do we have to go to when Iran was a great place for it's people? Remember the days of the Shah? It wasn't during his reign and today they're ruled by Ayatollah Whatshisname with Madman Amadiddypoo as Frontman.
We should even be concerned about the goats if we could be distracted from SITTING and watching while the crazy Nutters build a big boomer.
Looking at Islamic countries the rulers seem to realize the extremes their religion can lead to even among themselves, thus, extreme consequences, like death and torture and necessity for Autocratic rule to enforce their Medieval crap.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-06-10 9:15:09 AM
I happen to like Putin's idea of placing the proposed missile defence on an island in the Abezerjian region.
The Russian media are doing a good job of explaining Putin's position. Bush would be well-advised to listen to Putin and create a win-win situation in the fight against these emulators of Muhammad's tactics.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-06-10 9:18:49 AM
Sorry - must disagree. Azerbaijan is a Muslim nation, strongly influenced (threatened?) by Putin. And Putin wants Russian radar to be involved with this set-up - and that is what it is: a set-up so he can control (sabotage?) this defense system when it suits him.
This is standard operating procedure for Commies - limit the West's ability to defend itself against their ability to be aggressors.
Putin should be "put in" chains so that Russians could actually be free.
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-10 9:26:09 AM
This is not a phenomenon common to the Middle Eastern immigrants or even recent immigrants. Anyone familiar with the Italian/Portuguese/Greek etc communities in Toronto will know that this has been going on for years.
My in-laws have been in Canada and have been Canadian citizens since 1960 yet they still refer to themselves as Greek. They didn't like it when their Canadian born son married a cultureless "Canadian". Funny, I've always asked my husband why he, born and raised in Canada to immigrant parents is 'Greek', and I, who was born overseas (dad was in the CAF) also to immigrant (from Britain) parents am 'Canadian'. Surely, in the scope of things, he is more Canadian than I.
But... these people, their friends, their church congregation etc see themselves as separate and different. It's the same with my friends born to Italian, Portuguese, Spanish etc parents. They all define themselves as their parents heritage because that's what they've been taught. My sister-in-law says she's Greek all the time - she was born here and has only been to Greece three times in her life, but she's Greek in her mind.
My husband, who looks rather Middle Eastern, has tried a little experiment on the streets of Toronto many times. He is a bus driver and as such has immigrants ask him all the time where he's from. He always says he's from Toronto. They will then press him, 'no, where are your parents from'. When he says "Greece", 9 times out of 10 the questioner will say "ahhh, you are Greek", and he responds, "no I'm Canadian". And gets a very negative response.
This is what multiculturism of the 60’s and 70’s has done for us. Everyone is a hyphenated Canadian, and I truly dislike it. Recently we moved west (home for me) and one of the things hubby says he loves about the west is that people here are Canadian and no one’s foreign culture is shoved down your throat. But.. ask any Torontonian about segregation based on culture and they’ll tell you that this is not unique to the new immigrants!
Posted by: Anne | 2007-06-10 10:38:47 AM
Anne, I think you did an excellent job of describing the situation. I recall many of the same experiences from friends and others. Those born and raised here without even any knowledge of another language would encounter the same stupidity when they self identified as Canadians.
However concerning the subject of this post I must make a total difference between those who self identify as ?-Canadian and those for whom Canadian citizenship is simply a citizenship of connivence. They immediately return to their country of origin to live while expecting to collect the benefits of Canadian citizenship.
A start in dealing with both situations must be to end all forms of multiculturalism - and yes I do mean officially. It can and must be done. This has caused the death of Western Europe and will do the same here.
Posted by: Alain | 2007-06-10 11:04:29 AM
Apparently US Intelligence through Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN) has advised George Bush of Putin's personal wealth now approaching $20 Billion USD. This B in Billion is not a typo. Most of this is gained through illegal activity (the Russian Mafiosa) and Putin's accomplices apparently have amassed upwards of $300 Billion USD.
The strength of Bush and the US will be tested on this missile defense. Putin will most likely back down. Bush has been advised to have authorities go after this wealth and confiscate. Time will tell how strong he is.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-06-10 11:48:06 AM
o & z obviously sees Eurabia as a GOOD thing.
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-10 5:44:27 PM
o & z, actually I have on a regular basis, thus my comment. What is even more shameful than the on-going destruction of European culture, traditions and values is that the destruction is aided and abetted by the Euro elite - governments and media. Their PC tolerance for the intolerance and refusal to integrate of their rapidly growing Muslim population is astounding.
Posted by: Alain | 2007-06-10 6:08:09 PM
Jack: "Iran is a major threat to World Peace and must be punished for the murder of allied soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan."
Are you kidding me?? We illegally invade these countries and then get upset when they defend themselves or when neighbouring countries offer them assistance to prevent their own country from being illegally invaded?
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-06-11 10:38:36 AM
Iran must be turned into a glass parking lot - the sooner the better.
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-11 10:41:09 AM
This should be called the Double Standard.
ocb, in one blog you post a link about a suicide bomber and then here you say we should committ mass murder. So is murder ok or not??
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-06-11 10:58:26 AM
Murdering murderers is great! We should have public executions on TV each night. It's the murder of innocents that bothers me.
And anyone who doesn't overthrow their murderous governnent must pay the price, just like German civilians in Dresden did in WWII.
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-11 11:04:13 AM
"Bush has been advised to have authorities go after this wealth and confiscate." -- Brent
I have to ask Brent, which "authorities" have the "right" to confiscate the wealth of a sitting ruler/president/Czar/emperor of a soveriegn nation? INTERPOL? good luck. I can see american authorities seizing any funds he has in the US, but if he's smart (and we have no reason to think otherwise) he's probably got the majority of his wealth either tied up in Russia or stored in neutral and/or hostile countries that will not recognize the authority of any body (national or international) that tries to confiscate said wealth. Nope I'd say that Bush (and whoever follows him, as Putin will be in office long after JR. is dead) will have to deal with Putin as a equal.
Jack and Lefty -- I hate to say it but Lefty has a point. Of course so does Jack, if Iran becomes a nuclear power they will be a major threat (and again we have no evidence that they will not become one), but by the same token we (NATO) invaded Iraq based on faulty intelligence and though we now have to stay the course to ensure that eventually Iraq can stand as a nation on their own -- without being politically and theologically dominated by their neighbours (ie Iran) -- we really shouldn't be surprised that there are elements who don't want us there.
Posted by: Daniel | 2007-06-11 11:04:50 AM
"(and again we have no evidence that they will not become one)"
. . . other than the very words of its leaders. DUH!
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-11 11:07:47 AM
Once again obc, a double standard. Whats the difference between Mr. Ahmadinejad stating he wants to wipe Israel off the map and you saying you want to make Iran a glass parking lot?
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-06-11 11:18:08 AM
o & h, where did I suggest shipping every Muslim out of the country? I spoke of "immigrants" who have no intention of adapting to their host country and who are determined to impose their ideology on their hosts. Multiculturalism, especially as practised in Western Europe, not only encourages them to do this but funds them to do it. It turns a blind eye to honour killings, genital mutilation and oppression of girls and women, promotion of violence against infidels, etc., which is tolerance for intolerance.
If you are indifferent to this then freedom means nothing to you and I feel sorry for you.
Posted by: Alain | 2007-06-11 11:18:10 AM
Wow, you guys are just full of double standards today. Alain, you say freedom means nothing to o&h, yet you say that these immigrants can't practice their culture and religion in their new home? Who's limiting freedom there?
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-06-11 11:25:15 AM
I'm leaving you in charge of the trolls for a while. I'm off to enlarge my carbon footprint again shortly, driving cross-continent in my gas-guzzler as I make it back to Calgary from the East coast.
Posted by: obc | 2007-06-11 11:38:00 AM
Thanks obc but I cannot be bothered either as I have no time for trolls.
Posted by: Alain | 2007-06-11 12:19:00 PM
Those are good thoughts. As I said, we shall see how strong Bush is on this. The evidence will be if Putin backs down or if Bush backs down.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-06-11 12:35:19 PM
For those questioning the pre-revolution Iranian committment to NATO, they should check CENTO.
Plus Iranian government under the late Shah exercised militarily with NATO powers in the Persian Gulf area or in Europe. Also, Iran always attended NATO meetings at Minister level prior to the savage Islamic revolution of 1979.
Check NEJAT exercises held in Western Europe in 1978 and US-UK-Iran military exercises in southern Iran in 1977...
Yep, the mullahs are evil but the country/nation itself has been an ally of the west and can be one again.
Posted by: Winston | 2007-06-11 7:04:09 PM
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