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Friday, April 27, 2007

Christian "terrorist cell" makes trouble; Muslims respond

Spiegel Online International offers extensive reporting of the torture and brutal murder of a German Christian missionary and two Christian, Turkish citizens by a band of young men who had expressed interest in and attended a Bible study organized by the Christians.  Links to other reports may be found, here. The most gruesome details of the torture are included following a letter addressed to "The Global Church" from "the Protestant Church at Smyrna" which I have posted without alteration.  The description below the letter requires a strong stomach -- you have been warned.  (For more of Christian "terrorist cell" makes trouble, go to Burkean Canuck).

Posted by Russ Kuykendall on April 27, 2007 in International Affairs, Religion | Permalink

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Comments

I would wish at their trial that they could be sentenced to suffer some of the same treatment . These stone hearted bastards represent a manic - depressive state of mind , that is all too common in that ' religion ' of peace. Filthy cowards , all of them .
I`m sure that Jack Layton and Irwin Cotler will be speaking out on their behalf and be making Canada a bigger laughing stock than it is now.

Posted by: daveh | 2007-04-28 6:51:03 AM


I eagerly anticipate comments from all islamic apologists and lefty moral relativists regarding this...

Posted by: MarkAlta | 2007-04-28 11:00:55 AM


According to our friend Dale on another string, we are being much too cruel to our Islamic extremist friends.

Posted by: Set you free | 2007-04-28 12:05:32 PM


Comrades Taliban Jack the Dipper and Cotler the Nutter, are a pair of real Bum heads.

If Cotler wants to leave politics with any credibility he better bail out now or sit down and shut the hell up.

It's astounding to hear them denouncing our Military as enablers of torture. Ditto Bone Head Iggy-pop who stated sometimes torture is acceptable. True to Librano form he changed his mind for this particular attack, purely for perceived political gain of course.

Wonder if any of the Taliban sympathizers in all Opposition Parties would like to sit in the stands at an Afghan Soccer stadium and watch while women are stoned to death or people are be-headed by these inhuman wretched things.

Who could ever imagine such idiotic fools sitting in the HOC of this Country?
It's beyond sickening, it's got to be dealt with, we should not have to tolerate such dangerous behavior by elected officials.

Our Military are fighting the most evil of human beings in our world today. They need our FULL support at all times.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-04-28 12:48:06 PM


Liz:

AMEN!!

Posted by: obc | 2007-04-28 7:17:55 PM


How right you are Liz. The problem with the Left is that they have lost any moral compass if they ever had one. They now call evil good and good evil and confuse light with darkness.

Experience has taught me that there is no possible compromise with leftists, unless one believes one can reason with a dog. To attempt any reasonable debate with them is simply a waste of time.

Posted by: Alain | 2007-04-29 12:00:58 PM


I agree with both views, Liz and Alain.

Moral compass become unprocessed flush-material when the right went to centre, the centre went to the left, and the left started hanging out with their new best friends, the islamofacists aka islamic-extremists. e.g. those with taliban-jackism.
Or perhaps taliban-jackassism would be more appropriate.

Not to be confused with the superior-to-them intellect of the producers, writers, actors and artists of the film, with similar name -- also known to be at the bottom of the intellectual food chain, yet eons ahead of taliban-jackism.

Posted by: Lady | 2007-04-30 11:48:41 AM


PM Harper is being questioned by MP Ignatieff today in the House of Commons. Ignatieff who is much more of an actor than a hard working M.P. "is shocked and appalled" about mistreatment of Taliban Prisoners
handed over to the Government of Afghanistan by Canadian Soldiers operating as part of the NATO Brigade. Of course there is not a single documented case of prisoner abuse by the Afghan security forces
-this entire situation was created by Iranian immigrant Attaran and a compliant and irresponsible Ottawa and Toronto based Canadian Media. Few Liberals in Canada whose ranks in recent yeras have been integrated by near-do-wells and those possessed by supreme ignorance, without any real political experience.
Ignatieff's Uncle, the late Dr. George Grant, McMaster and Dalhousie Universities, one of Canada's foremost Conservative thinkers would be appalled I think if he observed his nephew in the
company of scum like Taliban Jack and that Little Fart Dion, especially by their blatant attacks on the integrity of the Canadian Army. Harper was excellent in his choice of words and demeanour in
the House and demolished Ignatieff who obviously does not know his stuff, and got a less than adequate briefing from Liberal flunkies, most of whom who should have been drowned at birth.MacLeod

Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-04-30 12:48:41 PM


Where can a private citizen make charges of treason against MPs who attack the very foundation of our nation?

First they came for the Bonaventure, but I was not sailing on the Bonaventure, so I could not do anything about it.

Then they came and cut down 30,000 full time forces positions, but I was not one of them positions, so I did not say anything, because I could not do anything about it.

Then they went for the dollars that replaced the materials necessary for replacing old, warn out equipment, but I was not using any of them there materials, so I said nothing, because those damn fiberals were in power, and I could not do anything about it.

Then I got to use some of them there materials, and nobody was there to listen to me, when I said you had better luck wearing hockey equipment while facing the taliban, than to use the anti-quated or badly redesigned new equipment that had replaced some of that which had survived forty years (and still worked) while the new stuff could not last more than a couple hours at best -- and nobody listened to me. Seems they were all way to happy to be on the fiberal ad scam payrole.

Nobody listens now it seems.

And then they elected some people who would back taliban and their bands of crooks, if toting the fear around that is associated with the terrorists (by backing them) made them look like men, even though all the women who serve today are really, more brave than those twits!

And now WE, after all this time of abuse, wonder why we have people, like Iggy, who back terrorists without question (like the statements he made on a Quebec radio in favour of the terrorists and then backtracked as it was anti-Israel and biased to the max)and taliban-jackassism?

Do you think it could BE more obvious?

Tell it to the families of those who have lost loved ones at the hands of these terrorists, that the fiberals are more interested in caring for the welfare of those that killed their loved ones, than to be thinking about more important things, like how to replace what they failed to replace, with what does them justice and keeps them alive in the first place.

Oh, but then they would have to admit that all that they did over the past 37 years plus, has resulted directly in what we see today.

And, if they just try to place the blame on the conservatives, well, it is very clear, they will fall flat on their faces. They were the ones in power. It IS their fault!

Posted by: Lady | 2007-04-30 1:48:30 PM


Quite the contrast in the House QP between Harper and the entire slate of Opposition bone-headed questioners.
Dion, Iggy, Taliban Jack(ass), and a few other sundry Nincompoops were pathetic.

It's just not believable the people of this Country are losing any sleep over rumors of torture of the Taliban. They are rumors put out by the Taliban themselves. They apparently have sympathizers here who are quite ready to accuse our Forces of enabling torture by handing them over as arranged by Liberals.

If these bloody fools do not know it's the first cry of captives, its in their code,to scream torture!

In no small measure is this crap being proliferated by people like Liberal Professor Attaran apparently he and Iggy are kindred spirits from the professorial ranks.

They're out to lunch on the Environment file as well.
We who have a brain that functions even part time have to know we have to keep our air clean.
We also know we have to make a living and feed ourselves at the same time.

Never has there been such a pack of useless FOOLS
plunking their butts in the Opposition Benches as we have at this time.
Never have we had a more useless, incompetent SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

Let's hope for a miracle and some common sense creps back into the heads of these silly fools.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-04-30 2:04:14 PM


Lady: I concur.

We have extreme evidence the Official Opposition is incompetent, not even fit to fill that responsibility and we do need a competent Opposition. In a minority government it's especially important to work in the best interest of the Country and support good legislation.

LIBERALS ALWAYS WORK IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THEMSELVES GETTING POWER. TACTICS INCLUDE LIES AND ALL MANNER OF TRICKERY.

They're playing desperate games of Gotcha politics to try to swing public opinion with the total support of the MSM. This Appears to be the extent of their capability, playing the fool's games.
NO WAY IN HELL ARE THEY FIT TO GOVERN.

Posted by: LizJ | 2007-04-30 2:27:45 PM


There is an old saying:

Mary Rose,
Sat on a pin,
Mary Rose!

They are baiting, and that is all there is to it.

Taliban-jackass,
Listen to lies,
Taliban-jackass!
Eats French fies,

All the Queens Horses,
And all the Queens men,
Are given no weapons,
'nd sent to heaven again!

Taliban-jackass,
Listen to lies,
Taliban-jackass!
Eats French fies,

All the Queens Horses,
And all the Queens men,
Are given no weapons,
'nd sent to heaven again!

Posted by: Lady | 2007-04-30 2:29:09 PM


Liz,

Concurance is mutual.

Posted by: Lady | 2007-04-30 2:41:12 PM


They now call evil good and good evil and confuse light with darkness.

...

You wing nutters are so funny. Especially 'set you free'. In reference to the other 'thread' I was in, I said the Taliban were dicks, and that Islam has some wacky customs, none of which I want on my backdoor. However, that doesn't give us the right to kill innocents either, and to wreak death and destruction in their countries, not to mention pillaging the resources. you see, this is why they 'hate us'. It's not for our freedoms, or any of that crap. They are sick and tired of the crap they have gotten from the west over the last century, not to mention the rogue state of Israel, that has been oppressing and occupying an indigenous people for decades. It is just common sense that they are fighting back. The problem arises when people in the media and government make up lies to justify continuing the agression for other than noble means. Such as the media lie that Irans president called for 'Israel to be wiped off the map'.. He never said that. Don't you think with WW3 just around the corner some more scrutiny of that statement is warranted? He said the Zionist Regime (exactly the same as the Soviet REGIME or the South African Apartheid Regime) needs to be wiped from the pages of time. NOw let me ask all those 'thinkun persons' out there? Is the soviet regime gone? Yes. Are all the people 'washed into the sea and dead'. No. That is what is meant by the Zionist regime being gone. Let me ask you? Is the world a better place without the Soviet Union? Or South African apartheid? Yes you say? Well it would be a better place without zionism as well. The jewish people are not 'zionism'. It is a political philosophy, not a religion. Think about that. Don't forget what Kalid Shaik Mohamed said about 911 (he is the 'mastermind' of the attacks). He said that the reasons were:

1) US bases in SaudiArabia
2) ONE-SIDED US SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL!

Why don't we hear about that in the mainstream media. Lemme guess. he is lying right?

sheeple.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 3:20:18 PM


Dale

" Don't forget what Kalid Shaik Mohamed said about 911 (he is the 'mastermind' of the attacks). He said that the reasons were:

1) US bases in SaudiArabia
2) ONE-SIDED US SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL!"

1) US had bases in Canada and we didn't fly planes into US office towers.

2) Again, Canadians don't fly planes into US office towers because of US support of Israel.

Would you "understand" a Canadian's rage if they hijacked a plane and flew it into an office tower?

Why do you listen to KSM?

1) Was he the Saudi Foreign minister or something and therefore had a say about US bases on Saudi soil but it was ignored by the Americans. Seriously, just what was his authority?

2) Have you given much thought about KSM's one-sided opposition to Isreal? Would a Canadian be justified flying an airplane into a Saudi office tower because of this?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 3:43:22 PM


Dale,

Seriously, tell me what Israel has stolen from Saudi Arabia that it's citizens want them dead?

Please note I said SAUDI ARABIA.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 3:49:19 PM


KSM personally sawed Daniel Perl's head OFF.

He forced Daniel Perl, who was a secular non-practicing 'Jew', who probably voted Democrat if he voted at all, to recite, "My Father is a Jew, and I am a Jew.", then KSM sawed Danny's head off on video.
No doubt Danny's, then pregnant, wife saw the video.
I sure did and I won't forget it.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 3:49:25 PM


US had bases in Canada and we didn't fly planes into US office towers.

...

It's not an 'offence' to our culture and religion to have US bases here, such as it is in saudi arabia.

...
Again, Canadians don't fly planes into US office towers because of US support of Israel.
..

no, but arab muslims do. what's your point? Besides dodging the obvious.

...

Why do you listen to KSM?

...
Maybe some of you should.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 3:54:27 PM


Seriously, tell me what Israel has stolen from Saudi Arabia that it's citizens want them dead?

....

saudi arabians are siding with their muslim brethren. Kind of like all of you canucks are siding with the white, european Israelis.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 3:55:59 PM


I sure did and I won't forget it.

...

Yeah, I undortunately watched it too, and it was horrific. KSM is an a-hole, for sure.

I noticed that NOT ONE person has actually addressed the fact that '911 was orchestrated because of US support for Israel' ... so says the guy who they say did it.

In your heart of hearts, you must see that this one sided issue needs to be looked at.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 3:58:22 PM


Dale,
"It's not an 'offence' to our culture and religion to have US bases here, such as it is in saudi arabia."

Apparently no one told this to the Saudi Foreign minister, King, and various personnel in the Saudi armed forces because US forces were there at their invitation.

So again, why should anyone listen to the ravings of a murderous KSM who has no authority to speak for the Saudi people?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 3:58:24 PM


Dale
"saudi arabians are siding with their muslim brethren. Kind of like all of you canucks are siding with the white, european Israelis. "

Who said I was a white european?
Would you call me racist if I were a white european sided with Israelis for that reason?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 4:00:38 PM


Dale,
"In your heart of hearts, you must see that this one sided issue needs to be looked at."

Yes, I agree. The one-sided OPPOSITION to Israel needs to be examined over there.


Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 4:02:54 PM


Apparently no one told this to the Saudi Foreign minister, King, and various personnel in the Saudi armed forces because US forces were there at their invitation.

...

ONLY because they were lied to by the US that Iraq was building up troops on the Saudi border, prepping for an invasion of Saudi Arabia. The saudi leaders chose their own personal security over the religion of theirs. Look it up.

Also, the majority of the hijackers were from saudi arabia, weren't they? How many were from Iraq? none.

WHy do you keep avoiding the second part of my point? Why does everyone avoid that part? My friends, the world would be a safer place (especially for Jews) if Israel would sit down and shut up, and stop being such an arrogant, murderous bastard.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:04:31 PM


One of the hostage demands that KSM made while holding Daniel Perl, prior to sawing off Danny's head, was that the U.S. expedite it's promised transfer of F-16 strike/fighter aircraft to Pakistan as military aid.

One would imagine that as an 'Ally' Pakistan would be using these planes to bomb al-Qa'eda and the Taliban.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 4:05:13 PM


Who said I was a white european?
Would you call me racist if I were a white european sided with Israelis for that reason?

..

It's a generality. You asked why the saudis side with the palestinians... it's not rocket science.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:05:32 PM


The one-sided OPPOSITION to Israel needs to be examined over there.

...

Ok, let's examine the REASON for the one-sided opposition to Israel over there. start here:

www.cactus48.com/truth.html

and then we can maybe get somewhere!

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:07:05 PM


Dale: Go hurt yourself dale. reading your drivelis like watching a monkey pick its a_ _.

Posted by: Markalta | 2007-04-30 4:09:50 PM


Dale,
"Also, the majority of the hijackers were from saudi arabia, weren't they? How many were from Iraq? none."

Exactly, so these hijackers didn't have the authority to go to war against the US anymore than KSM did.

"WHy do you keep avoiding the second part of my point? Why does everyone avoid that part? My friends, the world would be a safer place (especially for Jews) if Israel would sit down and shut up, and stop being such an arrogant, murderous bastard."

I haven't avoided it at all. I just don't agree. I would especially warn and and all Jews and Israelis against listening to any person such as yourself who tells them to just "shut up". The last time that happened, well, we know what happened...

"It's a generality. You asked why the saudis side with the palestinians... it's not rocket science."

So, are they the equivalent of racists or aren't they? After all, it isn't really any business of the Saudis is it?


Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 4:11:07 PM


"ONLY because they were lied to by the US that Iraq was building up troops on the Saudi border, prepping for an invasion of Saudi Arabia." Dale

Iraq DID actually invade KSA and ceased the town of Khafji with tanks of the Iraqi Republican Guard.

The Battle of Khafji was the first major ground engagement of the Gulf War. It took place in the Saudi Arabian city of Khafji, from January 29 to February 1, 1991.

The battle began when Iraqi troops unexpectedly invaded Khafji.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khafji

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 4:12:46 PM


Exactly, so these hijackers didn't have the authority to go to war against the US anymore than KSM did.
...

meaningless...

...

After all, it isn't really any business of the Saudis is it?

...

hmmm, just like it isn't any business of ours I would say... I'd say that it is more their business than yours... and once again, meaningless to the conversation.

I just don't agree. I would especially warn and and all Jews and Israelis against listening to any person such as yourself who tells them to just "shut up". The last time that happened, well, we know what happened...

...

Maybe they need to stop being an 'agressor' and stealing land and water and such.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:16:16 PM


Dale: Go hurt yourself dale. reading your drivelis like watching a monkey pick its a_ _.

...

yeah, I guess saying that occupying and oppressing people, taking their land and water and livelihood by force WILL MAKE THEM MAD.

I guess that is drivel. Next time someone does a disservice to you, or hurts you or family, if you fight back or stand up for yourself, well, anything you say and do after that is drivel.

(The truth really gets to people, doesn't it?).

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:19:01 PM


raq DID actually invade KSA and ceased the town of Khafji with tanks of the Iraqi Republican Guard.

...

it wasn't the hundreds of thousands of troops that the US said was sitting there waiting to overthrow SA. Also, the king let them in on the condition that they had to leave as soon as the threat from Iraq had passed.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:22:15 PM


Did someone leave the barn door open?

Posted by: Markalta | 2007-04-30 4:24:05 PM


OBL answered two self-posed questions:

"(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?"

In answer to Q1, he lists the grievances, more or less, that Dale make reference to, however, there is more. And those are the answers to Q2.

"(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire.

(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions.

iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.

(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.

Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment.

(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms.

(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them.

(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly.

(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past.

(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history.

(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only;"

etc. etc.

Posted by: DJ | 2007-04-30 4:32:26 PM


"it wasn't the hundreds of thousands of troops that the US said was sitting there waiting to overthrow SA. Also, the king let them in on the condition that they had to leave as soon as the threat from Iraq had passed."
Posted by: Dale | 30-Apr-07 4:22:15 PM

No, it was just the number that Saddam thought was needed to do the job. It was a probe. If the probe had been more successful there would have been more Iraqi troops, that is what probes are for. Did you think Saddam was just throwing those military assets away. Dale?
Being an idiot you probably did.

When the Iraqi invaders got greased they decided not to continue the attempt, thus proving that defending the border between Iraq and KSA was a good idea.

If the defenders had then been removed from their positions Saddam would have probed the border again. That is how invasions are prosecuted.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 4:35:35 PM


OBL answered two self-posed questions:

....

where is your reference for this? I believe that OBL is murderer, and deserves justice, however, the writings I have read are about ridding the 'infidels' from muslim land, and nothing else.

Also, what is your point as well? Why didn't the USA get bin laden, instead of diverting funds and resources to invade Iraq? Anyone... Anyone... Buehler....

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:39:34 PM


GWOT is one reason for invading Iraq.
Another is Saddam violating ALL of the Armistice that brought a ceasefire in the Gulf War.

Abu Nidal was a guest of Saddam. Saddam wanted Abu Nidal to train terrorists to hijack planes, and the GWOT was supposed to go after terrorists and the states which sponsored them.

Saddam had the highest profile, was aiding terrorists, and was therefore the prime candidate for invasion.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 4:46:37 PM


No, it was just the number that Saddam thought was needed to do the job. It was a probe. If the probe had been more successful there would have been more Iraqi troops, that is what probes are for. Did you think Saddam was just throwing those military assets away. Dale?
Being an idiot you probably did.

...

you're wrong...

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html

http://foi.missouri.edu/polinfoprop/nocasusbelli.html

http://www.whodies.com/lies_gulf_war.html

the USA lied to get their troops on Saudi soil.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:46:55 PM


GWOT is one reason for invading Iraq.
Another is Saddam violating ALL of the Armistice that brought a ceasefire in the Gulf War.

...

Oh no... you too?

THE REASON WAS AN IMMINENT THREAT DUE TO WMDs and that they HARBOR AL QAEDA.

That is what THEY SAID. Not the BS justification they use now. And abu nidal is a terrorist from the early 80s, and ALSO had nothing to do with 911.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:49:24 PM


Another is Saddam violating ALL of the Armistice that brought a ceasefire in the Gulf War.

...

Aren't you going to talk about UN resolutions? If you do, then let's start with Israel's UN violations. More than any of the other 'bad' countries put together I would say.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 4:51:15 PM


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

The point is, there is more to it than just Israel, resources, Iraq, Palestine etc.

Why the diversion to Iraq? Well, that's the $64,000 question, with probably just as many answers. :)

Posted by: DJ | 2007-04-30 4:53:15 PM


"two commercial Soviet satellite images of the same area, taken at the same time, no Iraqi troops were visible near the Saudi border – just empty desert."
From Dale's first link at 2:46

-Of course commercial sats don't have infrared imaging and the Iraqi military was camouflaged because they were at war. Note the satellite images are from SOVIET satellites. The Soviets folded soon after their vaunted military hardware was junked during the Gulf War.

From Dale's second link same non-evidence.
From Dale's third link same non-evidence.

Does the word redundant mean anything to you Dale?
Do you actually think that posting the exact same 'evidence' from three different sources make it more reliable?

All three links quote the same SOVIET commercial satellite photos and everyone knows the Soviets never ever lie.(well every commie symp useful idiot thinks so anyway)

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 5:03:40 PM


No, Dale I won't humour you by talking about UN resolutions. The elements of the Gulf War Armistice are more important that mere UN resolutions.

Posted by: Speller | 2007-04-30 5:05:53 PM


Dale,

"ONLY because they were lied to by the US that Iraq was building up troops on the Saudi border, prepping for an invasion of Saudi Arabia. The saudi leaders chose their own personal security over the religion of theirs. Look it up."

Even if this were true, the Saudi gov't had the right to revoke their decision. KSM did not. Nor did the hijackers. So I ask again, why do you base your arguments on someone who has no authority to act?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 5:39:53 PM


Dale
"it wasn't the hundreds of thousands of troops that the US said was sitting there waiting to overthrow SA. Also, the king let them in on the condition that they had to leave as soon as the threat from Iraq had passed. "

I don't recall him going to the UN asking for help because the Americans weren't leaving. BTW, they are gone now, right? All nice and peaceful like.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 5:46:26 PM


Dale,
"I noticed that NOT ONE person has actually addressed the fact that '911 was orchestrated because of US support for Israel' ... so says the guy who they say did it."

So do you believe OBL when he says those were the reasons or do you believe the US is making it up?

I support Israel one-sidedly, is it ok for OBL to fly a plane into my house?

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 5:54:24 PM


Dale
"It's not an 'offence' to our culture and religion to have US bases here, such as it is in saudi arabia."

So if it starts to become our cultural offence and the conservatives welcome US bases, would it be ok then for Canadians to fly airplanes full of civilians into office towers?

I'm trying to pin down why you think it ok to justify KSM's reasons for this type of action.

Please help me understand.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-04-30 6:16:20 PM


I'm trying to pin down why you think it ok to justify KSM's reasons for this type of action.

Please help me understand.

...

Nice try to spin it. You are a true right winger showing your true colors.

I NEVER justified anything. What I seem to have to say over and over again is that the reasons you all salivate over invading the middle east is nothing more than neo-con fantasy.

Also.. why no talk of the real meat and potatoes here (don't forget, al qaeda and baathist iraq were ENEMIES).. and that is, Israel's brutal and illegal occupation.

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 7:16:57 PM


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

The point is, there is more to it than just Israel, resources, Iraq, Palestine etc.

...

Again, the very first thing he talks about is PALESTINE and the occupation...

Why isn't that even DEBATED here?

Posted by: Dale | 2007-04-30 7:20:48 PM


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