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Friday, February 23, 2007
Top Lib Admits They Lied on Kyoto
Jean Chretien's advisor Eddie Goldenberg admits what everyone knew all along: there was no way the Liberals were going to meet Kyoto's commitments. His reasoning?
"The signing of the Kyoto Accord in the face of vigorous opposition served to galvanize public opinion to bring it to where it is today in Canada. In the long run that will be far more important than whether we can meet all the short-term deadlines in the accord."
I'm not so sure. Aside from being astonishingly cynical, signing international treaties one has no intention of honoring can undermine the public's confidence in government's ability to act honestly and effectively. Couldn't the Chretien govenment have made the case that greenhouse gases are a problem, but that Kyoto isn't the answer? That could have galvanized public opinion and would have had the added benefit of being true.
Of course, what Goldenberg doesn't say is that Kyoto is a great stick with which the Liberals can beat both the Americans and the Conservative party.
Posted by Jordan Michael Smith on February 23, 2007 | Permalink
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Comments
Since when did truth matter in neo-liberal Canada? The liberal puppets will burry thier heads even further in the sand and the media will look the other way. Just another day in Canada where truth is sacrificed for partisan politics, and the liberal lemmings keep marching on toward that cliff.
Posted by: Sean Whelan | 2007-02-23 10:29:36 AM
Everyday more people are questioning this trumped up global climate frenzy.
It's interesting that a bunch of right brain thinkers are trying to flog the science around this issue to make socialist gains.
This just another scare tactic since people are tired of the health care scare and the war on terror is wearing a bit thin.
Most humans have the attention span of a hummingbird ... gotta keep the fright show going ... that's what gets the money.
Ten years from now we will be onto new urgent problems and we won't remember what it was we were all so scared of with the weather.
Posted by: Duke | 2007-02-23 11:01:05 AM
It was all about Chretien's ego , to form part of his legacy (... well it sure did that but not as he intended) , and to be able to further stir up anti-American rhetoric in Canada while he thumbed his nose at Bush for being a "Kyoto denier".
Posted by: willy | 2007-02-23 11:04:27 AM
I believe a slightly more accurate headline may be...
Former Chretien Aide Admits the Obvious.
Be it a National Childcare Program,the Kyoto Protocol or even proper support for our soldiers,the LPC throughout it's recent reign talked a big game but never actually followed up with any real results.
They actually made treading water a successful political strategy.
On reflection....maybe that's a good thing.Lest we be lamenting the billions lost in the Kyoto and National Childcare boondoggles too.
Adscam,gun registery,HRDC were quite enough thank you...
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-23 11:37:31 AM
Rt.Honorable Jean Chretien PC was the Liberal MP in the NB riding now occupied by his GodSon MP Dominic LeBlanc. Met Chretien many times, one thing you realize quickly is how smart and shrewd he is but
he ran sloppy governments. He depended too much on guys like Eddie Goldenberg, never elected to anything and generally ignored his Caucus and Cabinet. I doubt if Chretien actually read the UN
or Koyoto Climate Change Accords, but would have signed off if the consenus between him and his flunkies directed "the just sign here, phase"
Both Chretien and Martin promoted their flunkies to have more authority and influence than elected MP's which is simply put, wrong. MacLeod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-02-23 12:00:24 PM
The Liberals in Canada believe that they, and they alone, are entitled to govern, which is why they will stop at nothing to get back in power and then to stay in power.
It is good to see every one of their lies exposed, but like Duke, I doubt many voters will still remember these things come election time.
Posted by: Alain | 2007-02-23 12:04:02 PM
"...astonishingly cynical ...undermine the public's confidence in government's ability to act honestly and effectively..."
You must be new to politics. They all do it all the time. All parties. Sadly. What's unusual here is admitting it.
Posted by: Mark Logan | 2007-02-23 12:13:58 PM
"They all do it all the time. All parties. Sadly"
That is the one truth that unites the entire partisan spectrum.
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-23 12:33:21 PM
Will Dion rename his dog now?
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-02-23 1:00:52 PM
ebt,
"Theft, fraud and dishonesty are fine with you, are they?"
You obviously couldn't comprehend my 11:37 post...or were too lazy to read it.To recap...the LPC is self-serving,dishonest and corrupt.I said that was a bad thing.
So....please stop the hysterics....or are you so naive and partisan as to believe that conservative politicians are the only ones in Canada who don't lie and cheat to get ahead?
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-23 1:18:14 PM
Is the fact that a Liberal lied or that a Liberal admitted lying a Flying Pig Moment?
(with apologies to www.Littlegreenfootballs.com)
Posted by: Brian Mallard | 2007-02-23 1:28:06 PM
Why do you Easterners - and Ontarians in particular - keep falling for Liberal lies????
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-02-23 1:49:18 PM
Zeb, while not all Easterners or Ontarians fall for this, there does remain a large number that does. You asked why, I suspect it because they want to retain the status quo.
I remember clearly what happened when the economic centre of the country started shifting to the West, in particular to Alberta. These same people were chomping at the bit and thanks to socialist Trudeau, they managed to kill the economic growth in Alberta.
Posted by: Alain | 2007-02-23 2:10:13 PM
A significant question is why did Goldenberg pick this time and place to devulge Koyoto Secrets and
assorted dirty laundry. He would not have opened his rather big mouth without a chat with Da Boss. These guys are very shrewd political players, what impact will the Goldenberg "Variations" have on the doomed
political career of Citoyen Dion? When one is focused on Ontario and the "Liberals" most people think of the "Government" which owns the purse strings rather than the Liberal Party, which only exists to win elections. Harper continues to maintain a very high profile Conservative Government, which is after all, the name of the
game. MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-02-23 2:45:37 PM
In his book, Goldenberg also noted that Dion is arrogant and "doesn't know the first thing about how government works."
Posted by: Werner Patels | 2007-02-23 2:48:17 PM
>>"Of course, what Goldenberg doesn't say is that Kyoto is a great stick with which the Liberals can beat both the Americans and the Conservative party. "
That reminds me of the old tale about going bear hunting with a .22 rifle.
If you shoot the bear and the bear EVER FINDS OUT that you did.....
Posted by: ignacio | 2007-02-23 4:49:54 PM
Mark said
"You must be new to politics. They all do it all the time. All parties. Sadly. What's unusual here is admitting it."
That's what I like about you. Always with the silver lining.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-02-23 6:36:53 PM
One fact that should burn its way into the Rt. Hon. Jean Cretien's very soul well before he leaves this earth is that his legacy - what will always be associated with him as Prime Minister - is dishonesty, venality and greed. Nothing else remains.
Posted by: Alienated | 2007-02-23 8:56:10 PM
What I see as a veteran political observer and having dealt with many politicians over the decades
is a major split in the Mighty Red Machine, caused by the blatant hi-jacking of their Convention by the
overly ambitious and talentless Liberal wanna-be's
from Toronto Kennedy and What's Her Name. The fact is the Liberal Party is in the selling business and any MBA will tell you that marketing Dion is an almost impossible task, given the facts about his
background, academic qualifications and total lack of political street smarts.In addition the same crowd have totally underestimated PM Stephen Harper who is the best PM in my lifetime. Canada got lucky. MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-02-24 6:17:37 AM
Stephen Harper is the best PM in your lifetime? Wow, you write well for a one year old. I'm two years old and I think Paul Martin is the best PM in my lifetime.
The only way Canada got lucky was electing Harper when they did. If he'd been around a few years ago, we would be involved in that debacle called "the Iraq War", would not have the distinction of the wonderful law of gay marriage, and would have US missiles on Canadian soil.
What makes Canada even more lucky is that Stephane Dion will be our PM when the decision comes to whether we should join the US in their inevitable invasion of Iran.
This year of Tory rule has been a blessing in disguise because it confirms to everyone in Canada that they are not fit to govern our country as exhibited by their failure to live up to Kyoto commitments, their lying about Income Trusts, a Foreign Affairs Minister who thinks he's still in high school, and their obvious disregard for AIDS, the environment, and human rights.
When the LIberals get back in power this summer, it will be a long, long time before the Con-servatives run this country. However, Jack, since you and are so young, we may see that happen in our lifetime.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 11:37:51 AM
Chretien and Martin did an enormous amount of damage in their terminated tenures to the Dominion of Canada - The Liberal Party terminated Chretien and the People of Canada terminated Martin, both
their brief stints in high office resulted in the rise of their Flunkies which in the real political spectrum is another word for Pimp. Goldenberg and Herle were hired with no input or approval by the Liberal Party nor Caucus. That is one of the reasons Citoyen Dion will wish he joined the French Foreign
Legion rather than teach at the semi-literate University of Moncton NB, which is mandated as Bi-Lingual English-French, but ain't. You sound like the First Mate on RMS Titanic. If you were a little smarter you would be aware that Trudeau
approved US Missiles with Nuke Caps on Canadian Soil RCAF Station Chatham NB -just up the road from here in this tiny perfect City of Moncton NB
MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-02-24 11:56:55 AM
First point: Chretian was not terminated, he retired; and I would hardly call three majority governments a "brief stint".
Second point: The missiles put in N.B. were at the height of the Cold War: a legitimate threat to this country. The only threat we have now is from US airplanes bombing our troops on the ground in Afghanistan. However, if Harper manages to stay in office much longer, and we extend Afghanistan and move more troops into places such as Iran, then we will have a legitimate threat on our hands. What you righties fail to realize in your bashing of the Chretien years is that he managed to keep us out of trouble with Islamic terrorists. All it takes is a little breakage of the ground with the shovel and we will be required to did that hole even further until we become a nation full of fear like America. At this moment, despite your republican fear-mongering, we're hardly on the scope of terrorists. Instead of getting closer to the US, the best move is to get farther away and not align ourselves with their imperialistic goals. The more distance we can put between us the better; unfortunately I'm not aware of a moving company that could put Canada somewhere in the south Pacific.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 12:17:25 PM
Isn't it amazing how all the Leftards have such a huge shopping list of things that need fixing and
improving URGENTLY. Demanding the Conservative government have a plan and big bucks for everything from the Environment, Kyoto, AIDS, Child Care, to fixing the tragedy of Darfur.
Problem is, the Conservatives have not had time in 1 year, to do all the things the Liberals failed to do in 13 years.
Having their butts firmly planted in Opposition
benches has brought to light just how little they
accomplished.
It appears they now want the Conservative Government to construct a plan on Kyoto, something
they say is now urgent but they could not possibly
come up with a plan beyond paying for carbon credits offshore.
Truth is, Chretien et al had no damned intention
of doing it, it would devastate the economy.
The venerable,in his own mind, Ralphy Goodale,
sure got some dirt in his face with his rantings on the cover-up of Pearson's medals by workers setting up in Foreign Affairs for the Conference.
It turns out, it's been done before on more than one occasion, BY THE LIBERALS. Its a case of needing the room and the Pearson objects can't be
moved.
So guess the message to Ralphy would be to SHUT
THE HELL UP.
Posted by: Liz J | 2007-02-24 12:30:17 PM
The formerly Right Honorable Jean Chretien PC was indeed terminated by the Martin's something to do with the incidents which caused Liberal appointed
Judge Gomerey to earn a little overtime. Chretien
and his flunkies did not keep the Muslim Hordes at bay, jeez, he invited them all to settle in Canada
-they did not come to Moncton NB, already had too many Donair Outlets - the downgrading of the Canadian Forces was started by Pearson and continues
in the Liberal Party to this very day - but is Dion a French Military Reserve Officer? he may end up in Lebanon -lots of Liberals in Lebanon. Macleod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-02-24 12:42:44 PM
Imperialistic goals?
Who did you vote for in the last US election?
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 12:45:12 PM
No one is asking the con-servatives to fix anything, we're just asking them to recognise these problems. They deny global warming, refuse to attend the International AIDS Conference in their own country, toss a couple hundred bucks out and call that child care, completely give up on Kyoto, and have not spoke a single word about Darfur. You say they have only had a year? Well, in that year they've managed to screw tens of thousand of retirees out of their savings, extend the fruitless mission in Afghanistan, attempt to overturn the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage,strand thousands of Canadian citizens caught in a war zone initiated by an aggressor that Stephen Harper outspokenly supports, devise a television smear campaing against a guy who just got elected, defy their own beliefs of Senate reform by appointing someone un-elected, take a trip to Lebanon in an obvious publicity stunt, attend numerous hockey games, date Connie Rice, design a bullsh*t environmental plan, and countless other time wasting activities. Stephen Harper was so busy he couldn't attend the AIDS conference?
By the way, every other country is living up to their Kyoto commitments and not a single one of them has "devastated their economy", so that weightless excuse you righties use is invalid.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 12:51:06 PM
Alright Jack, my conversation with you is over. How anyone could be so racist in this day is beyond me. The con-servative party must cringe everytime they read a statement like that because I don't believe even Stephen Harper himself is so far drawn from reality that he thinks like you do.
Set you free, you ask the dumbest questions.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 12:58:41 PM
Lefty:
What's you point?
I'm married and can have all the unprotected sex I like.
And what does anything you've rambled on about have to do with the price of eggs in China?
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 1:02:21 PM
Lefty:
Who's deying global warming?
I believe what I was taught in elementary school ... the earth is emerging from the LATEST ice age.
How do you explain 330cm of snow in Jasper this year, never mind the Columbia Ice fields? BTW, that's the largest recorded snowfall in Jasper since 1906, just over a century ago.
If it's about water vapour, why has nobody been able to construct a model which includes water vapour. BTW, so-called greenhouse gases are 96% water,
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 1:06:52 PM
Hold on, are you saying that you're married to a chicken? And the chicken is Chinese? Wow, I've never been with a Chinese chick before.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 1:07:57 PM
Listen man, do yourself a favour. Take a few minutes, use google if you have to, and actually read something about the science of Global Warming. You'll understand the whole concept much better and then you can actually make intelligent posts instead of idiotic ones.
The snow in Jasper? First of all, its about "climate change", not heat. (its like I'm teaching first grade).
Also, put the fact that Europe has received virtually no snow, average that out with Jasper's (this means you add the two figures together and divide by two; for all you other first graders out there) and you'll see that it's only half the normal snowfall. So either way your snowfall theory holds no water. Haha, holds no water.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 1:13:30 PM
Lefty # 99;
Chretien did not attend the AIDS conference during his reign either.
He got his Majorities when Mulroney decimated the
Conservatives with Liberal type connivances.
Just as the Liberals are gradually heading for the same fate started by Chretien's reign of error and corruption.
Nobody knows smear better than the Liberal operatives. Kinsella comes to mind. He says the Ads work and the now BROKE Liberals should borrow some money to run some.
So Mr. Lefty, to follow your line, you would not
approve of using ads?
The beauty of the Conservatives' ads is the fact they come right from the mouths of Liberals, it's
self critique. The Quebec Ads are factual as well.
It's hell to be broke, with no hope of even retrieving any of the lost brown bags of our
money Chretien put out and wanted no feedback on where it would go.
Thus at the Gomery Inquiry HE KNEW NOTHING, just as he planned it.
Posted by: Liz J | 2007-02-24 1:17:03 PM
Lefty:
Nice try.
As I mentioned, the earth is emerging from the latest ice age.
That implies the climate is changing. It is constantly changing.
It appears you would favour predictability.
For example, if it were guaranteed to be 23 degrees and sunny on every July 15 where you live, would that seem normal or abnormal to you?
Trouble is, climate is always changing.
Therefore, to point out that it's about climate change is like saying ‘it's about breathing.'
All of God's creations breathe and the climate is constantly changing. That's a given.
Your recognition that the climate is changing is a good starting point, sort of like something most people figure out in the kindergarten class of their lives.
Are your retarded or just a slow learner?
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 1:19:35 PM
Well, I can't be that slow if I already understand the FACT that we, human beings, are causing the current change in climate. You, however, must be slow if you still spout off all that crap about "natural changes". Actually, I don't think you're slow SYF, you're just weak. Its kinda like the Simpson's episode with The Leader. They brainwashed everyone with movies and protein food but couldn't get to Homer, until "da da da da da da da da Leader".
Or, it could be that you just don't care. It's ok for you guys that millions of sub-saharan Africans are dying from our use of fossil fuels, but when the reprecussions hit N. America, you'll cry out, "oh God, why have you done this to us". Meanwhile, the rest of us will still be reminding you that there is no God, and that we caused all this ourselves.
No need to reply, I'm out of here. High tide is in an hour, gotta wax my surfboard. (I'm in Costa Rica by the way.) Enjoy the cold, suckers. hahaha
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-24 1:28:18 PM
"Millions of sub-Saharan Africans are dying from our use of fossil fuels"
Rubbish.
If that is true, then the Liebral Party is to blame for it.
All the Science in the world can't make Kyoto work.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-02-24 1:34:31 PM
May I offer a suggestion?
In the future,when someone shows up here with an obvious hard-core leftist handle and arguments purely designed to be antagonistic towards conservatives...they are probably a troll.
Thanks to all the attention he was given,I'm sure he'll be back to push your buttons some more,now he's seen how easily you're duped.
When he's finished surfboarding in Costa Rica,that is.
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-24 2:10:14 PM
Lefty:
It's quite apparent you are in denial of the power of natural forces.
You and your ilk have declared yourselves to be gods.
Tell me. If a law were passed forbidding silt to be carried down the Mississippi River into the delta, could New Orleans be saved?
Hang on, now. Saint Al of Gore had already declared costal regions will be underwater. Bring on the bulldozers. May as well level the Big Easy right now.
Actual climate scientist at MIT have pointed out Gore's glacial example, given the volume and incidence he himself points out, would raise the ocean level a half-inch in the next century.
I'm not going to worry about it, O Chicken Little.
Neither should you, since you'll contract AIDS and die anyway.
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 2:11:17 PM
The Lefties want us to sign Kyoto and freeze in the dark, so all we can do is work towards Global warming and hope it kicks in fast.
The irony is the Oceans are not changing levels, another myth. As well as the Polar Bears in the North, they are thriving.
The truth isn't 'cool' to report at this point, it will eventually have to be told.
There should be more concern with dumping raw crap into the Pacific in Victoria BC and the Atlantic in Halifax and Montreal. That is disgusting under any circumstances. No excuse for that with today's technology at any cost.
Acting on those revolting habits would be agreed to by all.
Posted by: Liz J | 2007-02-24 2:12:02 PM
CO:
Lefty has been here before ... and he make even less sense since the last time he was run off due to an imbecilic lack of logical thinking.
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 2:13:50 PM
Lefty:
How do you explain this dichotomy?
During the last ice age, the area around Edmonton was under 2km of ice.
Yet, at the same time, there are oil deposits which were formed from tropical plants and dinosaurs.
Could it be that climate changed naturally, without the interference of human beings, in those epochs?
One more question. Before there was firefighting equipment and a forest fire broke out somewhere, was there such a thing as carbon emissions? What about the stuff volcanoes spewed into the air?
Or, as you claim, since humankind was not around to witness many of these natural events, does that mean they did not happen. Scientifically, they could not have happened, since there was no positive proof that they happened.
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 2:46:14 PM
Syf,
He is not about being coherent.
He is not even about debating his POV.
He is about insulting conservatives.
For what he was trying to accomplish,he actually did a pretty good job.But not without a lot of help from some naive regulars here.
Please...reread his last few posts if you still don't believe his real motive is to push conservative's buttons and troll for reactions.I'm sure he's very pleased with himself after today's catch.
Sorry,but that's honestly how I see it.
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-24 2:47:51 PM
CO:
The good part is that his presence here allows us to hone our debating skills and present facts in a coherent manner.
Take it as a learning experience and take some of those facts into your own arsenal of knowledge.
I've heard this ‘it's not about global warming, it's about climate chance' tactic before and it that topic-shift was easily handled.
The Kyoto freaks are pretty dogmatic with their arguments ... many of those tactics are well-known and are getting somewhat tiresome. Still, they are easy to counteract since there is no factual or truly scientific method applied to the argument.
To be honest, I find much of the Kyoto supporters to be ill-informed control freaks. They don't bother me at all because I just laugh at their ignorance.
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 2:56:29 PM
CO:
Some of us are more observant than others and some are too clever by half.
Lefty knows he has no real argument.
His brain will be getting lots of oxygen in Costa Rica, if that is in fact where the troll is, he may pick up some good info bantering with us.
Posted by: Liz J | 2007-02-24 3:00:30 PM
Syf,
I'm sorry I'm failing to get my message across to you....so let's hope repeating this one more time will help.
He is not about being coherent.
He is not even about debating his POV.
He is about insulting conservatives.
The only thing he apparrently understands about Kyoto and global warming is how he can antagonize conservatives with it.I've seen this trolling behavior countless times before.
Or do you honestly believe challenging your belief in God,blaming you for the deaths of millions of Africans,or calling you racist,stupid,etc. are sincere,legitimate pro-Kyoto debating points?
Use your debating skills where they matter...with someone who at least pretends to give a shit what you think.
I apologize for helping take this thread off course.
What can I say?I f*cking hate trolls and how their shiny lures always inevitably ruin a good thread.
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-24 3:23:27 PM
Liz J,
You had me at CO.
Seriously,you lost me with your last line though.The only thing he will remember from today is where he found the good fishing hole.
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-02-24 3:25:59 PM
CO:
I'll remember today as a day where I got to counter-act some of the shallow arguments from the Kyotofreaks.
Posted by: Set you free | 2007-02-24 3:58:22 PM
Lefty_99 ( or the troll formerly known as IGGY_for_PM ) said
"By the way, every other country is living up to their Kyoto commitments and not a single one of them has "devastated their economy", so that weightless excuse you righties use is invalid."
Thanks for the laugh.
How was your fact finding mission to the People's Republic of Nicarauga, anyway? Did you manage to participate in any pogroms? Is it true that Ortega has a shrine of Lenin in his bathroom?
How many carbon offsets did your trip cost?
Please post pictures.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2007-02-24 4:46:57 PM
Man you guys crack me up. It's been a few months since I've been on here, as CO remembers, (thanks, Nicaragua was beautiful and I will post some pics) and its the same idiots spouting off the same crap. While you all sit their in your right-wing, freezing cold city complaining about terrorists and left-wing trolls, I am down here enjoy the sun, continuing my education on culture, human life, and the world outside that drab city of yours. If anyone, and I'm dead serious, would like to experience something in the world, I welcome you to stay on my couch and even use my surfboard. I'm in Tamarindo, and you can catch a weekly Air Canada flight to Liberia in the north.
Posted by: Lefty_99 | 2007-02-25 12:13:38 AM
"Enjoy the cold, suckers. hahaha"
I'm confused, Lefty... I thought that global warming was already occuring. How on earth could it be colf out?
Posted by: Feynman and Coulter's Love Child | 2007-02-25 3:24:40 AM
Everything's the Liberals fault seems to be the mantra of this blog.
Let's remember who Eddie is working for now shall we? He's working for the oil and gas industry. He's paid to lobby the government to get subsidies for his industry. And it seems he can be paid to say anything.
I like Alain and Zeb blaming easterners again as well. Especially the claim that Ontarians want to maintain the status quo.
Sorry folks maintaining the status quo would mean not doing anything to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and pollution. That seems to be your line, while many like myself see the economic benefits of doing so.
If you don't like Kyoto, that's fine. But remember that all Kyoto and reducing greenhouse gas emissions is about is using less energy to do more - it's about saving money and being more productive.
If you want to live in the past with your fellow Luddites that's fine, but the rest of the world will pass you by.
Posted by: Chris Rickett | 2007-02-25 7:05:56 AM
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