The Shotgun Blog
Tuesday, January 23, 2007
My latest at the Monitor, about Stephen Harper's first year.
Cross-posted at Wonkitties.
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Having voted for Harper with high hopes; I feel betrayed. He's proven to be the 'stereo-typed' self-serving politician. I've decided to avoid all future voting booths recognizing that 'the more things change the more they remain the same'.
Posted by: Frico | 2007-01-23 10:56:35 AM
“But thanks to his ability to learn from past mistakes .. .he’s triumphed"
Good point. That also is the basis of capitalism. It’s trail and error and not being afraid to make a mistake but accept mistakes as normal. Conversely the utopian perfectionists are gridlocked into planning for every eventuality with dreaded fear of being embarrassed off their perch of superiority by a mistake.
“Notably, Canada's new prime minister has not engaged in any gratuitous anti-Americanism. That's a standard Canadian political tactic, guaranteed to please the "blue-state" denizens of Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto.”
This is my greatest fear. That because Canada is really made up of 6 or 7 cities along the boarder and the identity of our city dwellers for the last couple of generations is not about being Canadian it’s about anti-American superiority. Then how are Conservatives going to win in the cities?
The answer lies with immigrants. They are more conservative in terms of economics, and a self-supporting entrepreneurial attitude than the elitists in the Liberal party. But the Liberals have cleverly co-opted the immigrants during their Natural Governing period over the last century. Hopefully Harper is able to break that paradigm. He will need to in order to get a majority.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 11:42:52 AM
I don't think Harper can break that paradigm, but can win a majority without the cosmopoliton vote
-I don't think Citoyen Dion is going to inspire the
Immigrant Vote, he will be seen as an arrogant Quebec intellectual out of touch with the great unwashed hordes. But they liked and admired Chretien
and were confused by Martin's lack of objectivity
- Harper is in my opinion an outstanding politician and statesman - plus he has a natural ability as a political streetfighter that the insular Canadian Media have missed. Several top Liberals have said to us;"Jeez I wish he was our guy" - I can understand their point of view. MacLeod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-01-23 11:56:54 AM
I hope you're right Jack. I guess if we add up all the anti-Cosmo types in all the Monctons across Canada there may be enough Harper followers to pull it off.
Too bad the polling doesn't break down the demographics between the mega-urban-unwashed and the Moncton-unwashed.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 12:09:45 PM
Leaders of a country may have a very high influence on the events. Consider how badly France was led before WWII. UK was not much better until Winston Churchill became PM. If General de Gaulles had been in charge, let's say from 1935, I'm convinced he would have invaded Germany before Hitler did invade France.
In Canada, we are not confronted with a nazi country on our borders like France was. But we have inside our country an unknown dangerous islamists who are waiting orders to bring havoc. We need a strong and realistic leader for the time being.
I think that Stephen Harper is that man. The day when we will be confronted with disasters, we will be very happy to have this leader as PM.
No one is perfect. FD Roosevelt was not perfect, but he was a great leader. He did his best to woe Japan into leaving the alliance with Hitler. And when war started he was blessed with a very united country. Try to picture the world at that moment without USA. Certainly the nazis would still be in control of the planet.
Posted by: Rémi Houle | 2007-01-23 12:19:26 PM
The Liberals have a strong mandate in Moncton which is actually an Acadian City today, and they are committed to Dion, but I,m not so sure most Liberal Federal MP's in NB are. Acadian politicians are resented in New Brunswick. The irony is that "Moncton" is named after Wolfe's long time friend and fellow soldier BGeneral Monckton who was tasked with chasing the early Acadians out of New Brunswick
-Citoyen Dion taught here at the University of Moncton - Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-01-23 12:25:21 PM
My Congratulations Mr Harper
We have a saying in the trades that states that its a poor man who blames his tools or his materials.
Considering with what you have had to work with this past year I would venture to say that you've done well.
You have taken the wreck of a country and breathed some life into it so that it can go on to face another day.
Oh its a fact that I'm not happy with all things that have come to pass under your watch but then I would have to label myself a fool to believe that your soul purpose in governing is to pander to all my whims and notions.
What you have done is injected a sense of pride and a belief that this country can be great,that Canadians can rise above their lot and that we can, as a nation achieve great heights.
We as Cdns need to learn a little constructive humility; we are not our southern neighbours nor are we superior to them.
In fact Canada as we know ourselves would not exist but for the generosity of those good folks whose proximity to us guarantees our relative freedom.
This is something I believe that you understand and for some folks to mock you as 'Bush Lite' only serves to show what a vaccuum these people dwell in.
I also realize that many who supported your leadership bid are now disappointed with you..... To them I say 'What were you looking for,forty years of indoctrination magically eradicated at the snap of a finger?
All things take time.....Give the man some.
For after all, he is trying and you know what an ornery bunch to please.....those Canadians are.
Posted by: Simon | 2007-01-23 12:36:56 PM
I believe Harper to have scored 8 out of 10 during his watch.
That he's dealing with Quebec is just a reality of this Nation. Never underestimate the fox.
He cajoled if I remember aright, 72 French speaking Counties into admitting it was hezballah who where the aggressors, not Israel. At the first draft only Canada declined to sign it. Now that’s having a pair.
He has NEVER backed down from his principles. Which frankly astounds me to see in any serving politician.
As for Kyoto it become more irrelevant by the day. As the frenzied worshippers of this neo-Religion mired in millennial mania. Continues to lie, engineer, disseminate their deceit. They are shown for what they are.
Treasure hunters, serving the Church of the Mother Goddess.
Claiming themselves prophets of doom. Instead of practitioners of science. It will fade. I think that’s what the Conservatives hope & why they play the game . While setting up rules for the real pollution problems . Water tables, air quality in cities, & chemical leakage. With incentives for industry & Individuals to increase research with use of this ecological technology.
I wish PMSH the best, but I think its too late for Eastern Canada. There destiny will be with the Crescent of Islam ultimately, taken by the road of self delusion.
It was too late when the Idiot emperor to be. Paul Martin was in charge.
To turn the tide of this wholesale corruption of 40 years. To halt the momentum of degeneration of this polities social, & cultural life, if not family altogether. Is almost impossible. Particularly with a Constitution with collective, not individual rights, with an activist Judiciary that reads the invisible into this cubist document with no property rights.
Our crime rate already shows where reaping PET's & his socialists legacy. Ignorance conjoined to European multicultural Utopianism.
The destruction of spiritual life in this Nation to be suborned by an oppressive humanism.
Harper would have to be superhuman to overcome this long a period of stagnationary decreptatude.
I just thank God he's trying to fix the army while frantically trying to hold the Country together. Most Easterners don't know how fragile this State is now. The deep divides rendered by the Liberals policy of divide & conquer.
As well trying to reform a Senate that is useless to achieve parody between Provinces. This is a good hope, but unless a majority, a far distant one. I think only a massive Religious revival to bring back morality, or major attack would shock the East around to sanity instead of rationalization. Though by that time most of the people with any brains will have headed West by then.
All in all , he's done a spectacular job. For how long is anyone's guess. To those who think he has left his roots , think again. This man has more rabbits in his hat than bugs bunny has broods.
Just my opinion
Posted by: Revnant Dream | 2007-01-23 12:39:56 PM
"That won't be Harper's only challenge. Canada is a country without significant conservative infrastructure, or conservative media. The result is a peddling of hysteria about Harper's alleged "hidden agenda" – a conviction that, with a majority government, he would destroy Canada's social safety net, sell our mothers to oil companies, and sign us up as the 51st US state."
I believe that you have properly described what is the fundamental political problem within Canada with the approximately 10% of current Liberal voters who are holding back a Conservative majority. I appreciate your humour on the sale of our maternal heritage but I will address the other two for they are genuine concerns for some Canadians.
One does not need to be anti-American to point out the shortcomings of America. It would not be wrong, for instance, to point out the differences in the crime rates between the two countries. Although Canada's own racial tensions are on the increase, one may also point out the even greater and more significant racial problems within America. I could cite many more examples but it is not necessary to be a Socialist or a Communist to note America's shortcomings. It should not be difficult to diffuse the "51st State" argument.
The social safety net is a more difficult one. I believe the way to battle this one is to begin to change the terms of the debate. If the debate were represented as it currently is as a social safety net vs no social safety net issue, I believe that Conservatives will have an uphill battle. The debate needs to be changed to more correctly represent the situation - at least in health care. In health care, the debate needs to be represented as changing from a social safety cocoon to a social safety net. Because so many Canadians incorrectly confuse their health care system with a social safety net, they are reluctant to embrace change that might force the lid off the system while retaining its floor. This argument presumes that the Federal government wants to stay in the health care business as opposed to following the Constitution. A similar argument could be made for EI (except the Constitutional part).
Harper needs to sell the non-Conservative voting public on the merits of his social conservative base on the topic of the social safety net. While the leftist media correctly portrays a social conservative in the areas of abortion and homosexuality, the media-portrayed stereotype seems to stop with those two issues. The social conservatives are exactly what their name suggests - they are people who desire to preserve or conserve a social order. Most (or all) social conservatives want to have quality health available in a reasonable time for themselves and their family when the time comes. They are not necessarily opposed to a state solution in this area - but they are quite against a belief that ONLY the state can solve this problem. In fact, the social conservatives are actually more "moderate" than are the Libertarians within the Conservative voting base on the issue of health care. It is my observation that this is not well known. Social conservatives are also generally more "moderate" than a pure Libertarian when it comes to the issue of EI and welfare - if these social programs are used by what they would consider to be on an as-needed basis. They would probably be about the same or perhaps more opposed than that same Libertarian when it comes to abuse of those programs. In short, Harper has not distanced himself from the social conservatives within Canada; they have political views on more than two subjects and he should use these to his advantage. It is possible to diminish socialism within Canada without forsaking basic needs of people.
Mr. Harper also needs to promote Canada's strong points to Canadians. Let us consider the rise of the Information Age. If we ignore the more advanced degrees and consider only the baccalaureate and below qualifications, one could say that Canada has a well-trained and well-educated work force. Harper needs to present a vision to Canadians of a large reduction in the business taxation system in order to attract and retain even more world-class IT companies.
These changes are significant and are indeed problematic for socialists but not all Liberal voters are socialists. I estimated in an earlier thread that only 10% of Liberal voters need to change to effect a Conservative majority. It will be difficult but it is possible without forsaking Conservative principles.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-23 12:44:47 PM
Good posts Simon and Revenant Dream. However re:
“I think it’s too late for Eastern Canada. Their destiny will be with the Crescent of Islam ultimately, taken by the road of self delusion.”
We in the East will be taken down the road
, for sure. But not to the end of the road. At some point even the Toronto metro-sexual, gender studies crowd with iPODs stuck up their ears will realize that the Crescent is even worse than the dreaded unfairness of capitalism.
So we are going to win against Islmofascism and the even tougher battle against the enemy within. The only question is: how many have to needlessly fall before the utopians in our midst can see the light?
Alberta will need more than a firewall because there are a lot more Michael Moore Democrats just south of your border.
Therefore my plea as a Torontonian in a small conservative ghetto is to seek your patience with us and turn Simon’s comment into a prayer:
“All things take time.....Give the man some. For after all, he is trying and you know what an ornery bunch to please.....those Canadians are.”
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 1:05:20 PM
Three Cheers for PM Harper!
HIP HIP HURRAY!
HIP HIP HURRAY!
HIP HIP HURRAY!
There is no doubt in my mind that it has been a tough year, and one where he has been forced to make compromises with the leftists!
Posted by: Lady | 2007-01-23 1:19:39 PM
May I ask you for an estimate on how long it would take for Harper's Conservatives to be trusted enough by Toronto for the residents of Toronto to send, say, 22 MPs to Ottawa? Let us presume that Harper and the CPC do not change fundamentally - how long before Toronto either realizes that Harper really is quite mild or they change to vote more like, say, Saskatchewan or Manitoba. Let us leave voting like Alberta out of the question for now. How long?
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-23 1:21:06 PM
I light of the celebration, I dare each and every one of you, to reduce your total emission of CO2 by 20%.
I include myself of course.
But not including my hummer....
Posted by: Lady | 2007-01-23 1:36:49 PM
Brent if we don’t have an election until 2008, I think it’s possible.
I’m a social liberal who votes conservative because no-one in my immediate family is gay. But I know other people who have kids that are gay and who are otherwise conservative but who got turned off years ago by Stock Day and what they perceive to be rednecks from the west who are going to hang their kids for being gay. I’m exaggerating a bit to make a point.
But I have gay friends; we all do in a big city. Therefore I really think that now that the SSM is behind us, no pun intended, then with the passage of time people can simmer down and listen to what Harper has to say instead of behaving like they have the equivalent of Bush Derangement Syndrome.
The other thing is that Canada is centrist. I don’t think that has anything to do with left or right. It has to do with what Remi said above …leadership. People will follow a good leader as long as that person doesn’t go too fast. They do not want to rock the boat. They have a lot of equity in their Toronto house and they do not want that to go down in value because of a radical fast political move. So they keep saying that they want their leaders to be centrist, which is code for go slow.
Finally , we're democratizing the media. We raise more money than the Liberals but how many millions is the free headline news that favours Dion? We are overcoming that problem , another year before an election will work in our favour.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 1:37:38 PM
Trust me I hope with my entire soul your version is the one that wins the day. I am not anti-East per say. Nor would I in any degree wish that outcome on anyone.
What is true though is the East has to turn its face from Europe as a its mentor, & become North Americans in outlook again.
Theirs is a culture of suicide, we need life affirming motifs. Not the love of death ending in the sterile path of extinction. With weary apathy as an obituary.
The socialist Eastern liberal Mentality that is crippling us all over this Nation, including Quebec if they would realize it some day. This group think is Born in the bowels of Ottawa & percolated in Toronto by socialist instigators. From my window it appears thus. I despise this family Compact left over exclusive Utopian garbage.
This of course only applies to the ideology itself. Individuals are a different matter in my mind. Even if they do disagree, most are honest. Its the evil behind it I loath & those who propound this for gain. Either politically or financially with only an existentialist zeal. At all our provinces ruin, with persons as less than collateral damage.
If France embraces Islam , how will Quebec answer do you think?
Posted by: Revnant Dream | 2007-01-23 1:50:20 PM
Revenant Dream “What is true though is the East has to turn its face from Europe as a its mentor, & become North Americans in outlook again.”
Exactly, but that is also true of the Michael Moore Democrats, not just the East in Canada. In fact I think it has to do with urban and non-urban – not the only dynamic of the split but a key one.
I wish someone smarter than me would put some analysis on this.
The frontier spirit needs to know how to survive whereas in big cities there is more of an attitude that the big corporate employer or big government will take care of you. That breeds utopians not conservatives.
If this is true, I’d suggest that Calgary should not get too smug. It’s a big city with big employers.
Oh and for all my rantings, France won’t embrace Islam. They may wait too long and Notre Damn will be a mosque. But the fact is , Islam is like communism; it will not work. It can’t. Think about it. A bunch of Mullahs are going to try and do what Mao and Stalin tried to do? It will come crashing down.
The issue is how many of our kids will get pulled into the vortex before we all come to our senses and fight back. But un-reformed Islam is finished. As is socialism in Quebec. They are both propped up. One by oil money, one by the ROC. The propping will end at some point. (I’m not saying Quebec is as dangerous, just that it’s a derivative of failed utopianism, like Marxism or Islam).
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 2:17:38 PM
Quote "Harper's never going to be any more than the Prime Minister of Canada" What should he be aiming for? "Pope?" Harper's focus is strictly on forming a Conservative Majority Government with a mandate
for change in the Canadian political process. He is fortunate that the real Liberal strategists are not working for or with Citoyen Dion, who annoys them.
They were the architects of Michael Ignatieff's
return to Canada. He was to be the annointed leader
who could defeat Harper. Make no mistake the Liberal Toronto based brain trust have no illusions of Harper as a very competent and formidable opponent, who destroyed Martin. Greg Weston wondered today, "what ever happened to Martin" Real Liberals say: "what ever happened
to that prick Martin? MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-01-23 2:20:50 PM
The first year of the Stephen Harper conservative government will at the very least give Canada one year free of Liberal government malfeasance.
Canadians are slowly waking up to the fact most Canadians are now openly declaring their Pride in Country!
Something that even the enabling MSM could never seem to pronounce during a decade of administrative malfeasance by the former government.
Good balance piece on Harper, Rondi.
Not often seen from MSM.
Posted by: Joe Molnar | 2007-01-23 2:32:09 PM
Harper's reign has already been labeled a failure.
WHY?....because the MSM says so.
You are all expecting ONE MAN to change the well established course of this country to the left over the past few decades.It is an impossible task with a press corps dedicated to undermining any attempts at a national move to the right.
The unbalanced power of the electorate in this country lies in Ontario and Quebec.The vast amount of these people are supporters of leftist ideologies.Thus the press coverage in these regions reflects their views.What we call propaganda is just even more reenforcement of their already leftist views on life.Harper is consistently portrayed as a threat to these ideologies.
Remember Martin's war cry?Liberal values=Canadian values.Meaningless BS to us,but very comforting words to many in Ont/Que.
Thus the incredible effectiveness of the"scary"campaigns fought by the left and it's sidekick,the MSM.You may or may not have noticed that the left STILL clings to this tactic.The reason is obvious....it still works.
The last election was the perfect storm for the CPC.
The LPC was awash in scandal,waged a laughable campaign and even temporarily lost the partisan support of many media outlets because Martin's performance was nothing short of incompetent.
Combine that with a near flawless campaign by the brand new CPC plus an exodus of pissed off Quebec voters to the conservatives to punish the LPC's corruption and what did we acheive?
Personally,I think Harper has done a pretty decent job.
The problem,as I see it,is that far too many'easterners'have an entrenched mindset that the right is indeed scary.A belief they have reenforced by the MSM day after day after day after day...
The right craves change.
The left fears it.
So,although we have a minority conservative government with the LPC as the official opposition....I believe it is actually the MSM that holds the balance of power in this country.
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2007-01-23 2:39:54 PM
Thanks for your reply. Yet, I feel that I must gently challenge at least one of your points. Let us consider the issue of same-gender marriage that you brought up. If we take for granted that Reform is either the father or grandfather of the current CPC, then we can say that the CPC has a 20 year history. During most of those years, the challenge to the definition of marriage was not an issue between the Liberals and the CPC lineage (if I may describe it that way). There were other social issues to be sure but it seems to me as if the marriage issue is simply the latest one and not the last one as you seem to imply (but do not state outright).
Let me suggest an alternative. Alberta had an advantage that no other province had in the mid 1980's - and I am not referring to economics with this point. When Preston Manning came along, he had instant name recognition within the province. It was because of his father's reputation as a well-repected Premier of the province for 25 years that people gave him an ear that they might otherwise not have done. It was mostly those over 55 years at the time who were first attracted to him; they would have been 35 or older when his father left Alberta politics. Much of the Alberta press reported this 55+ years fact without reporting the reason for it and were initially opposed to Reform (Byfields excepted). More thoughtful heads prevailed in Alberta and you know the rest. Yet there was in Reform's earliest days a distrust even within Alberta and for the same reasons that many Canadians east of the MB/ON border even now distrust the CPC.
Now, I am aware that the prairies are more conservative than the rest of Canada. For example, I met more than one person from Toronto who said in references to church-goers something like: "They also go to church in Toronto - but out here, they really mean it...". So the social conservative issues are very real. Yet, how much is due to the fact that the CPC is even today not as well understood in Ontario as it is in Alberta? I am aware that some of the distrust is due to a very good understanding of the policies by some who will never vote for the current CPC. What about the rest? Did I understand you correctly when I interpret your response as saying you think a CPC majority could be than 2 years away?
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-23 2:39:57 PM
that would be less than 2 years away?
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-23 2:40:49 PM
Re Marc's reference to the Lucide document by Bouchard
Have a look at this:
Look at the sponsors. The panelists.
A who’s who.
The politicos in Quebec know it’s over.
The only issue is how to get the message to Trois Pistols and the outlying areas, which are even more cocooned than the ROC is by the USA.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 2:48:00 PM
nomdenet: Canadian Observer just stated several reasons for what is behind my questions.
You know, CO, I think Canada needs a new definition of "scary" and you just did a good job of providing one.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-23 2:51:00 PM
As a matter of fact, one man did change the total direction of this country and left a profound impression on every Canadian which endures to this very day. His name was Pierre Eliott Trudeau, who
I thnik if he were alive today would have supported
Stephen Harper - the Two Prime (meaning First) Ministers have a lot in common, and share common intellectual perspectives of Canada, like it or not
-certainly the Axworthys, Aspers and Davey's know this and this is why Harper is to them formidable
-Trudeau is said to have had contempt for the Media - not true, the Media to him did not exist
which demolished a lot of egos. Told a very upset lady in Ottawa one afternoon "suicide is the answer" I don't think the great unwashed Canadian Electorate gives a shit about "The Media" MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeode | 2007-01-23 2:55:48 PM
2 years would be even better, if we can get it. I knocked on a lot of doors, thousands, in the last couple of elections, there are a lot of people in Toronto voting Liberal that have switched and more will as the turst builds. We should build that trust and hold out as long as possible to build it.
Brent, I understand your points and I think we can have our cake and eat it too. Let me give them some thought but a quick answer is this.
I’m a Presbyterian. My Church would fail without the gay community. They do a lot work, give a lot of gifts.
But Canada is regional. SSM is a value not a right. That value will be determined by region. We need to de-centralize. We will. In the USA, SSM will be settled by state not Washington.
We need to get on with establishing Quebec as the distinct society that it is and let it carry it’s own $120 billion in debt.
The same for Danny Williams in Newfie, he as a conservative has squandered its future in the oil the patch … for at least a generation. Let the Newfies figure that out as now commute between St John's and Ft McMoney; because that's where the jobs are.
The Newfies are unique. So is Quebec. So is Ontario.
That's why we can't define Canada. It has very regionalized values That makes life interesting. Let's get on with it.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 3:03:25 PM
Agree Jack. Trudeau was a fiscal disaster. But he understood terrorism. Also he said in a speech, that I can’t find, in the mid 90’s that multiculturalism was a mistake. It’s the opposite of sovereignty. Also Trudeau was not politically correct.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 3:08:19 PM
Talking about scary, anyone been watching Pipsqueak Dion these days?
We have pollsters telling us he's polling above Harper. Talk about scary, that's it!
The media have done a job on themselves while TRYING to do a job on Harper. It looks very good on them.
Their theme song is "Play me a Hurtin' Tune".
May they, like their Liberal boozing buddies rest in peace.
Posted by: Liz J | 2007-01-23 4:36:29 PM
It never ceases top amaze me how people, perhaps not unlike yourself, will judge people harshly, for preferring traditional definition of the term "marriage", (from where it originated (OK, who invented marriage)) on the one hand, while clearing their throat and saying oh just how wonderful it is that the SSM issue is over while they judge Mr Day harshly.
Let us get real here for a minute, shall we?
Why was Mr Day judged so harshly?
I recall very well that he was judged harshly for his religious views, and for being a sea-doo kind of guy.
Well, that IS where the media chomped down on him.
Ok, back to getting real.
The very document on which Canadians place their value system, in relation to SSM is also the very document that protects people on against discrimination on the basis of their religion.
The problem is that all these pieces are protected, but the glue, the social-political fabric if you will, cannot gaurantee anything.
Having said that, I would hazzard to throw back to you, that if indeed you look aroud your family, and do not see anyone gay, and if indeed you look at your family, and do not see someone like MR Day, that perhaps it is evidence that not everything that occurs or is understood in your political and social relaity, really is understood beyond what we call, the politically correct.
Posted by: Lady | 2007-01-23 5:18:34 PM
Lady, I’m not judging Stockwell Day harshly, I’ve (unsuccessfully) defended his right to hold his view to many of my Liberal friends in many debates. Downtown Toronto lawyers were convinced he’d bring in the “notwithstanding clause” to overrule all kinds of laws in the Charter to suit what they perceived as his fundamentally right Christian neanderthalness. That’s not my description of Stockwell Day , but it’s the description used regularly by the Toronto chattering class.
I’m OK with SSM. I’m OK with Stockwell Day’s point of view too. That’s what values are, they’re personal. Also they change.
I used to be totally in favor of a woman’s right to choose re abortions.
Now I’m not so sure. I have a new cousin that appeared on her 40th birthday. She would not be here if those around her had chosen to avoid an unwed mother situation at the time.
Values change. It’s our right to change our values.
I have atheist friends that are totally against SSM. I’m a Christian but I’m OK with it. Someday I may change my mind again on SSM just as I am in the process of doing with abortions. Values change in our society and we talk about it openly , thank God.
That does not happen in societies that Islamofascists control. That’s the difference between their value system and ours. Ours will win, because you and I can agree to disagree and still be civilized about it.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 5:43:25 PM
Yahoo for Harper et al,they have done well.However, I believe that an early election will not result in any gain by the conservative party. Not because of thier shortcomings or due to an improved liberal party,but because the main media,cbc,ctv,and the bellglobalmedia network have realized that Harper has the right stuff. This worries them to no end.They are taking the gloves off and ready to go bareknuckle with the truth. Opinions,unsubstantiated facts,and outright lies will be repeated ad nauseum if they smear the conservatives.Watch the coverage on the national tonight and compare the negative references to the positive. This is SCARY.
Posted by: wallyj | 2007-01-23 6:31:06 PM
Issues are not like fashion. I like clothes, and I especially like a great power suit, but to be whimsical about major issues, sorry, you lost me on that.
Sure, Canada is such a great place, you can be for something one day, and against it the next. To me, that is the end result of a government that has been for something one day, and forgotten about it the next. And I am referring to the past Liberal government of course.
For example, they are pro-environment, and signed the Kyoto Protocol. The they sat on their rear ends and let the damned thing collect dust. Then when the conservatives pick it up and say it like it is, a bunch of bureaucratise, where billions would be wasted, without anything realized for the environment whatsoever, and other nations digging their hands in your wallet. Now of course, they are waving the environmental flag around. Only this time, the conservatives have PM, and there are systems being put into place where people will really have to think about whether the money they are sinking into their house, for the purpose of reducing their C02 really does what they say it will do.
Why I know some folks who went from single to double glazed windows, and spent over ten grand on so-called things that were suppossed to reduce the amount of energy they consummed and at the end of the first year, they actually used more energy than before.
So, you like to go flippity-flop, well you do that. As for me, I will take the well analyzed any day of the year.
Posted by: Lady | 2007-01-23 8:16:37 PM
Lady , I'm not talking about changing my mind from day to day. I'm talking over the years. When I get new information I adjust my thinking accordingly, don't you? Isn't that what "well analyzed" means?
Utopians don't change no matter what.
One thing I've learned here on the Shotgun is that the utopians aren't only on the left.
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-23 8:29:50 PM
Thank you for your thoughts. Although the recent changes in the legal definition of what constitutes marriage interests me, for this thread I was interested in the topic only as an example of why the perception of social conservatism is a deal-breaker for many in Ontario.
I draw your attention to your comments to Lady about the Toronto lawyers and my previous comments about Alberta's growing trust for the Reform Party. I then would like to add the following: when Albertans are polled relative to social conservative issues, the numbers are not substially different than other Canadians. Why the difference? Why does Toronto trust its "chattering class" and why did Alberta ignore its leftist media years ago?
I suggest it has to do with 1) the idea that Albertans are less taken in by the MSM idea that the CPC has a "hidden agenda" and/or 2) the infamous but imagined "hidden agenda" of the CPC is less distrusted in Alberta than is the very real "hidden agenda" of the LPC.
I do appreciate your hard work on behalf of the CPC and the Alliance before that. I do not yet share your optimism about the timing for Toronto (but would like to be wrong); however I do believe that the trust factor for the CPC is on the increase even in Toronto, albeit slowly.
Thank you once again for your thoughts.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-23 8:51:41 PM
Brent "Why the difference? "
Toronto is like San Fransico, it has a very large gay community. Torontonians have gay friends because it is inevitable. Gays are at work and at church.
They are also conservative, a few are even socially conservative.
As Mike Harris once said to me on this topic when the Ontario PC's were dealing with the gay issue during his government's challenge to come to grips with gay rights in terms of spousal benefits in the workplace in the mid 90's ..." When I talk to gays , I find they are just as interested in tax cuts as everybody else".
Posted by: nomdenet | 2007-01-24 4:32:18 AM
Thanks. Actually, nomdenet, if you look at some of the comments by following the link on Bob Wood's thread at the CBC site, they are rather refreshing.
There are many of the type: "I was initially apprehensive, cautious, etc but Harper has been a pleasant surprise.
Polls still suggest another minority but things are moving in the correct direction. Time factor is still an unknown.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-24 5:45:24 AM
Harper has a political strength that the insular and liberal national media have missed; that is the ability to attract attractive and electable Conservative Candidates. The Conservative Party of Nova Scotia is on the verge of collapse because of the dismal quality of the Premier and his country bumpkin cabinet. The same problem wiped out the Liberal Opposition as an effective alternative.
But Harper does not and will not have that crucial
My opinion is that some of you conservatives who post here should consider running as Conservative Federal Candidates. Have often knocked on doors with Candidates, and one can quickly determine if he or she is electable. But the opportunity and the challenge is there -running with Harper. MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-01-24 6:28:10 AM
"When I talk to gays , I find they are just as interested in tax cuts as everybody else".
Posted by: nomdenet | 24-Jan-07 4:32:18 AM
So the Liberals only have to get their spending priorities right, cut a little taxes and Presto! they get to rule the country and keep pushing their Leftist agenda.
There is no such thing as a fiscal small 'c' conservative.
Real Conservatives are social conservatives.
Fiscal conservatism follows as a natural by-product of social conservatism.
Posted by: Speller | 2007-01-24 7:57:06 AM
"Fiscal Conservatives" I've seen over the years
are politicians from any Political Party who attempt to run a Province of City et al without money. met a lot of Fiscal Conservatives in Poland and Romania
-Robert Rae defunct socialist Premier was a real "Fiscal Conservative" what ever happened to him?
Frank (The Myth) McKenna was/is another - MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-01-24 8:11:10 AM
You seem to have your own idea of what "Fiscal Conservatism" means. To the rest of us it is "a term used to refer to economic and political policy that advocates restraint of government taxation, government expenditures and deficits, and government debt."
Wiki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_conservatism
These are all good things around here, and hopefully things our new Conservative government believes in.
Posted by: John | 2007-01-24 3:08:20 PM
I notice you had to look it up. Shit, my tom cat could do that - next thing you'll be writing the formula out on a Black Board. Most "Fiscal Conservatives" are bird brains, whose major motivating factor is incompetence and a Mother complex - Jeez, MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-01-24 5:13:04 PM
I notice you had to look it up. Shit, my tom cat could do that - next thing you'll be writing the formula out on a Black Board. Most "Fiscal Conservatives" are bird brains, whose major motivating factor is incompetence and a Mother complex - Jeez, MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-01-24 5:14:19 PM
"Harper has a political strength that the insular and liberal national media have missed; that is the ability to attract attractive and electable Conservative Candidates."
Albertans noticed this phenomena of the MSM underestimation with Reform in the late 80's and much of the 90's. Not only did the MSM underestimate Reform's strength, they failed to understand the base of support. From the beginning of the Reform movement until at least the day after the 1997 election, the MSM characterized the Reform support as a protest vote. The MSM actually believed that the Progressive Conservatives would beat back Reform in the 1997 vote even in Alberta.
I was living in High River, Alberta (birthplace of Joe Clark) for some of those years. There was a parade ('91 or '92). Joe and Maureen were on a float in the parade. As they came by, all the residents were respectfully quiet. No one jeered or insulted the float but the customary cheering was very conspicuous by its absence. Immediately behind the float came the Reform candidate. Once the residents saw the Reform banners a large cheer went up. The message was not lost on Joe; it was written all over his face. It was the closest that I ever came to actually feeling sorry for Joe.
The MSM ignored this and other similar stories about what was coming. The early Reform vote was anything but a protest vote. Finally, Albertans had something that was substantially different from the past - and in such a good way. The 1993 BC Reform vote may have been partially a protest vote but the Alberta vote never was.
To bring things up to date, I repeat that it was encouraging to read the CBC post on Harper to which Bob provided a link. Even in Reform-friendly Alberta, the early years were an uphill challenge. It is not surprising that the areas where Liberals have been the strongest will be the last to warm up to the CPC. But from the postings, a few Toronto voters see Harper as more than a protest vote; he has "earned" their vote. I do not think we are in majority country yet, but it is certainly comfort against another Liberal majority.
Posted by: Brent Weston | 2007-01-24 10:43:42 PM
I agree, Brent Weston - Reform votes were not protest votes - the people I knew voted FOR the Reform Party - with enthusiasm!
Preston Manning lost a lot of support from me when he marginalized Prime Minister, Stephen Harper when PMSH was a Reform MP.
Since then a lot of water has run under the bridge and Stephen Harper is now the best Prime Minister Canada has ever had - IMO. People who pay taxes are beginning to appreciate this Just man (PMSH) who talks plain facts not spewing double speak propaganda, like the Liberanos, about social justice while robbing us. It pushes the imagination to rationalize voting for multi millionaires like Paul Martin and the Cretian who were caught stealing from people making $17,000 a year. Further, they had the audacity to fund private projects like golf courses and shipping lines with money from people who could not afford a round of golf or a ferry ticket. Even the dullest of the blinded minions who voted for the Liberanos because they wanted to identify with 'enlightened progressives' secretly resented theft from their own bank accounts.
I think that most people do not want the Koyota thingie either, when they find out that they are expected to pay for it via higher taxes. Clean air, land and water matter to people; paying other countries for 'hot air' is only good if it's an agenda thingie; when they find out about the real cost, to them, they change their minds.
The urban easterners have always enjoyed using the west to fund social perks for themselves; it was a joke shared among the so called 'intelligentsia' who spoke to, not with, the working stiffs in the same locality. I guess it made the working stiffs feel somehow better because they knew that they could not belong with the eastern 'suits' but at least the clodhoppers in the west were getting fleeced worse than they were, in other words, even the lowest easterner was better than the inhabitants of the hinterland in the west!
When the Reform M.P.s rolled into Rottawa the west announced that the game was over! Now the eastern people are starting to realize that they were never part of the 'suit' gang; that they were used to enrich a group of people who only spoke to them when they wanted a vote.
BTW, I use east and west in a general way - there are lots of western people who were/are duped and lots of eastern people who were/are not ; Sask, B.C. and Man had Dipper governments running them into the ground while Ont. had had the good sense to elect the Mike Harris government.
The msm - they are not trusted anymore by anyone I know; they have been on the wrong side of the truth too often to be credible. The panic is detectable, they are going way over on the frothing, rabid, hate spiels about our Prime Minister and the President of the United States. They (msm) have stopped attempting to report news, they are ranting. People generally feel sorry for lunatics (not in this case, though); they certainly don't put any credibility on what they say. IMO.
Posted by: jema54j | 2007-01-25 2:20:12 AM
It was the excesses of PM Brian Mulroney which contributed to the creation and success of the Reform Party, which was like a "breath of fresh air"
in the fetid halls of the Ottawa Establishmemt. I remember with great fondness the first Reform MPs
whose legacy is the Government of Stephen Harper.
The "Red Tories" of the period were the creatures
of a group of advisors led by the late Dalton Camp
who was a "reformed Liberal" and was designed to attract disgruntled Liberals who detested Pearson
(like my late Father) to the Progressive Conservative Party, but fate intervened in the form of Pierre Eliott Trudeau. But as History has a way of proceeding, the positive upgrading of Canadian Politics and real influence by the Canadian West was the result. MacLeod
Posted by: Jack MacLeod | 2007-01-25 3:59:44 AM
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