Western Standard

The Shotgun Blog

« Dion Strikes Oil | Main | Selective application of rights »

Tuesday, December 05, 2006

The sleeping giant

Gordon Chang writes, here, about "China in Revolt" in Commentary. The China Chang describes is a China in a constant state of protest with over 150,000 mass demonstrations in 2005 . . . not a demonstration of 150,000 people, but 150,000 mass demonstrations (150,000 X mass numbers of people)!

Chang implies that once enough of the People's Republic of China's citizens rise up, they could replace the current government, as in the democratic revolution of 1911 and the communist revolution of 1946 to 1949. But what is missing, is . . .

(For more of "The sleeping giant," go to Burkean Canuck).

Posted by Russ Kuykendall on December 5, 2006 in International Affairs | Permalink

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
https://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834515b5d69e200d83501329e69e2

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The sleeping giant:

Comments

Shhhh. Don't tell "deepblue" and "bcf" -- they prefer the Chinese system of governance to Alberta's (scroll way down) . . .


http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2006/12/why_harper_is_h.html

Posted by: ted | 2006-12-05 8:40:11 AM


BC,

I think you sell Falun Gong a little short; I've found it's much more politically pluralistic than is widely acknowledged. Moreover, you don't seem to realize that the Communists have been using outside Christians to justify their own Communist-run "churches" for years.

This is not to say an FG-driven political change is preferable to a Christian-driven one. What matters is whether the pro-democracy movement (as we call it) can reach out to the numerous rebellious groups and peoples within Communist China. That will require FGers and Christians to cooperate, not compete with each other.

Posted by: D.J. McGuire | 2006-12-05 9:18:40 AM


Hi DJ--

There's two streams of Christianity in China: the state-endorsed "Three Self Church," and the underground, mainly house-church movement. By best reports, the latter is MUCH larger than the former.

In respect of the relationship of FG to Xianity, I would hope that there could be cooperation. And, I suspect that Chinese Christians would be open to this. However, I've noticed that when I've attended FG-sponsored events, there's a remarkable silence about the "other" big underground movement in China, and, even, resistance to its being brought up as part of the discussion.

FG is VERY militant -- in its own way. The Xian house church movement, much less so. That makes me wonder how a FG-controlled government would treat its major competition . . .

Posted by: Russ Kuykendall | 2006-12-05 9:27:15 AM


Russ,

I agree, the underground Christian church is far larger, but to the Communists, it is the enemy. The impression I got from your posts is that the regime is open to using Christianity to reform itself; nothing can be further from the truth.

As for FG, I do agree they have been myopic recently (in no small part due to the organ harvesting outrage), and I can't comment on the practice's Canada branch. But the American side have been trying to build a broad anti-Communist political coalition for many years, and if its "media arm" (Epoch News group) is any indication, it has a strong working relationship with the China Aid Association (one of the leaders in exposing Communist persecution of Christians).

Posted by: D.J. McGuire | 2006-12-05 9:57:33 AM


This was an interesting analysis. I had some knowledge of the Chinese society prior to 1910 by reading Lucien Bodard's books.

I suggest Chinese people have a long story of spiritual culture. Lao Tseu and many others had a profound influence on the culture.

If there is too much hatred towards Japan, this could be very dangerous. Japan might be tempted to make an intervention like it did in the past.

The best hypothesis would be a new form of government by judeo Christian values. I think a large portion of Chinese like Christianity. I like Chinese people and met wonderful Chinese persons many times. They succeed well in our society. I played tennis in California with a Chinese millionnaire who had an awful lot of friends.

Any time, I would exchange all the muslims in Canada for Chinese people.

Posted by: Rémi Houle | 2006-12-05 11:48:45 AM


It seems to me that Falun Gong practitioners are working hard for the release of Gao Zhisheng, a Christian, who has become a freedom icon in China and has recently been jailed for subversion.

BTW, Gao is a human rights lawyer who defended Christians,the Falun Gong and peasants. He became famous for writing 3 letters to Hu and Wu urging them to stop the persecution of Christian and Falun Gong. Shortly after he organized a hunger strike to protest the brutal persecutions and to protect human rights, the hunger strike quickly exploded on a global scale and was broadly supported by Falun Gong and Christians alike including the pro-democracy movement.

As a practitioner, I have never heard of rivalry between Christians and Falun Gong.
http://ahdu88.blogspot.com/2006/08/support-gao-zhisheng-by-quitting-party.html

Besides, Christians are always invited to join the rally organized by the Falun Gong and some have given some speeches to support the effort.

As far as I know, practitioners have no political agenda and do not want to take over the Chinese so-called government and their influence is limited to exposing the perpetrators of the persecution. It is a call for justice and a rescuing effort toward their family members who are being tortured and murdered for their organs.

We just want freedom of expression/religion and the right to celebrate a free China.

Posted by: Makina | 2006-12-05 4:39:15 PM


It is highly unlikely that China is going to "melt down" Poland-style. Firstly in a country of 1.5 billion, 150 000 "mass" protests is simply unremarkable, and how big was each of these, and where were they located? Shanghai? Beijing? Or in some s***hole in the far rural border regions.

France has a more-or-less continuous Intifada/Islamic riot problem that is far more impressive for instance.

These people babble on about how Tibet is about to throw off the Communist Yoke, and there is this massive,widespread support for "democracy" (whatever the hell that means). China is the world's oldest Empire, and is not without problems, but any "revolution" is going to come from and be contained in, The Party.

I can also tell you that when you check out some of the names of these underground "Christian" churches, you get some very interesting details. They seem to be more along the lines of Koresh or Jim Jones. There are about 30 000 000 people who call themselves "muslim" (although the Saudis would brand them all heretics) in China, about 15 000 000 Protestants, about another 3-5 000 000 Catholics, and the vast majority are in the "other" category.

China actually has freedom of religion (and you can practise meditation, as most Falun Gong practitioners do, BUT, you are not free to engage in any religious activity injurious to the public order. Period.) This means you "register" churches with the authorities. The Chinese government does not have a problem with Christianity. China is paranoid about rebellions (they have probably had more than anyone else). However the idea that this is 1946 all over again is patently ludicrous. For starters, who exactly is going to arm and supply the "rebel" forces against China's 200 000 000 - person Army? Never mind the Bomb, the Chinese Air Force is big enough, and sufficiently without scruples, that there will be no outside interference this time around. China has a veto at the UN, so no sanctions there, I'm afraid. China really has no enemies excpet themselves, and pretty much all the big Revolutions in history had a lot of outside help. (No, America's was a rebellion, not a revolution, and it had the fortune to be going on when the Brits were heavily tied up fighting in Europe. Ah the old "external factors" again).

These are some of the reasons there is no Jihad problem in China. China has worked very hard to improve the opportunities for its Ethnic Minorities (Tajiks, Uygurs, Kazakhs, Turkmen, etc...), and quite frankly these people have very few options anyway (Russia or the Jihadi Sharia nightmare in Perisa/Arabia) so they are in no desparate hurry to leave. There is no widespread popular support for any kind of overthrow of the government among the minorities for obvious reasons.

Don't read too much into popular demands for accountability. Most protests are not trying to change the system. They merely demand proper application of existing law. (Gee, sound familiar?)

Expect the Chinese government to shoot some "officials" soon, as a way of "cleaning house". Damn, it's just all so refreshing...

By the way, Alberta, I hate to burst your bubble, but in the grander shceme of world history, you hardly exist.

Posted by: bcf | 2006-12-05 8:01:12 PM


I am sorry for your cause, Makina, but really you have very little serious support among the people of China, as you know, and in the West yours is but a "cause celebre" for the coffe-shop soccer moms.

There are real abuses of power in China (as there are in Canada, France, etc) but until you can convince the Chinese masses that your cause is of real importance to them, the victims will be alone.

I wish you all the best in your quest.

Posted by: bcf | 2006-12-05 8:05:25 PM


FAR from advocating accommodation, I was simply pointing out that there is something of an intellectual crisis within the universities of China, as they search for intellectual grounding. In effect, it's an admission that communism is intellectually bankrupt, as is Confucianism. As I pointed out in a reply to you in the comments to my post, I don't think of the "Three Self Church" as the Christian movement, but the underground, house-church movement, instead. And those folks, contrary to what "BCF" has suggested, are very much the object of CCP suppression.

Posted by: Russ Kuykendall | 2006-12-06 11:58:13 AM


Reading Russ's phrase "...a Falun Gong-controlled government..." made me chuckle a bit, since the last thing Falun Gong wants to do is govern China. We're meditators who strive to live by Truth, Compassion and Tolerance. Political power isn't our focus at all -- we just want the killing and torturing and brainwashing of our practitioners stopped. If we keep trying any (non-violent) way we can, something's got to give sooner or later.

Posted by: Claudia | 2006-12-07 7:01:44 AM


Hey there, ebt, apparently I do exist after all. Actually as far as I can tell, it is quite nice.

But Alberta, well, not a country, not a nation, heck, what ARE you? Oh yes, a province. But not in some kind of cool Empire like the former British, or heaven forbid, the Roman. Oh, wait, you used to be, but now you're part of what again? Not a republic. No, what was it? Hmmm, can't call Canada a Dominion anymore, since that would offend the French, and the Ojibway I guess.

Oh well, Alberta, a "we-don't-really-know" inside a "who-the-hell-cares".

Posted by: bcf | 2006-12-07 10:30:35 PM



The comments to this entry are closed.