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Thursday, November 30, 2006

Blood on the tracks

Global blogger Warren Kinsella on the train to the Liberal convention in Montreal:

11:27 AM EDT - The loud delegates in the seats behind us - behind me and my friend and Hill Times colleague Angelo Persichilli - are for Stéphane Dion, Michael Ignatieff and undeclared. They have just started - very loudly - mocking Joe Volpe and Italians.

9:43:16 AM - Omar and I are on Via Rail, whistling our way to Montreal and Global National's convention coverage with a gaggle of Liberal delegates. A couple of them are talking, loudly, about what to do about "retards." Quote unquote.

h/t Canadian Christian Conservative at Blogging Tories

Posted by Kevin Steel on November 30, 2006 in Canadian Politics | Permalink

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Comments

The question of "what to do with retards" is vitally important whenever large numbers of Liberals gather in one spot. What does Kinsella suggest? That they just not discuss it?

Posted by: Raging Ranter | 2006-11-30 12:41:09 PM


What retards? They could be referring to anyone. This is a generic term to use on anyone who disagrees with you.

Who are the retards? Ambiguous referring is meaningless.

Joe Volpe is a joke. Most Italians are great people, but many of them are worthy of ridicule.

Who are the retards?

Posted by: Duke | 2006-11-30 1:07:51 PM


Is anyone else tiring of this incessant partisan sniping?....I know some of you are clapping your hands with glee that some dirt was discovered on some liberal supporters on a train.
BUT....people are people.If he were on a train to a conservative convention,he'd be hearing similar garbage.
As long as we keep expending SO MUCH energy and emotion on this endless circle of partisan hatred,we'll never accomplish a f*cking thing of any importance in this country.
It's time we tell ALL the major parties to go f*ck themselves and start supporting some independants who will put their country ahead of any partisan ambitions.

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-11-30 1:11:14 PM


Yeah, thanks for that little scolding Garth.

Posted by: Raging Ranter | 2006-11-30 1:13:07 PM


RR
I'm not scolding anyone,I've been a partisan twit myself on more than one occasion.
I'm just pointing out the bizarre fact that WK has many conservatives sitting on the edge of their keyboards waiting to see if one of these guys will blow his nose then throw the tissue on the floor,just so we can point a finger and say'look,a bad liberal'!
BTW,Garth made an eloquent and impelling case for independants versus parties,even though I knew he was lying his ass off.Garth is clearly out for no one but Garth...but conservatives still elected him to parliament....didn't they?

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-11-30 1:34:04 PM


They were probably just hammered anyway...

Posted by: Bob | 2006-11-30 2:00:58 PM


Nobody who likes the Liberals care if those who don't say, "Bad Liberal" and those who dislike Liberals already think they're bad. Why not get our jollies at the Liberal's expense? They've cost us plenty.

As to Indies vs Parties, it's all the same if the Pol doesn't have principles. At least with Parties who have platforms you know who is influencing the Pol in addition to his/her constituents.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-11-30 2:03:43 PM


Maybe Kinsella heard it wrong?

Perhaps the word was RETREAD.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-11-30 2:19:04 PM


“Retard'' is a code word for ‘those who are not as intellectually capable as us.'

All of us have a certain sense that our way is the best way.

Putdowns, by pointing out weaknesses in others, is one way humans delude themselves into thinking they are superior.

It's much easier than introspection, which insists that we examine ways by which we can improve ourselves.

In some ways, that explains the left's obsession with US politics and Iraq in particular.

They point out to Abu Griab and how those prisoners and the prisoners at Gitmo are not being treated according to the Geneva Convention. Strange thing, though, I cannot recall al-Quaida siging the Geneva Convention.

So, it's OK for the criminals to behead prisoners, but the country that signed the Geneva Convention is somehow guilty of transgressing, even though the perpetrators of Abu Griab were tried and sentenced.

I guess my point is that those who ascribe to statist/leftist solutions likes to live its live vicariously through others, which somehow absolves them of any responsibility for their actions.

Retards!

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-11-30 2:27:11 PM


"Most Italians are great people, but many of them are worthy of ridicule."

And why's that?

Posted by: Stopthetrain | 2006-11-30 2:27:53 PM


Speller,
I've had plenty of good yucks at the expense of liberals,mainly because if I didn't laugh I'd cry.I've also burst a few blood vessels.I just get concerned when so many fellow cons turn it into a seemingly sacred religion.It would not be the first time I expressed some independent thought and had some fellow cons point a finger at me and scream "NONBELIEVER!".

If an independant wants to get reelected,he better play close attention to the voters who put him there or he will be a one hit wonder.
Look,if we've learned anything,it's that there is NO perfect system.However,can you tell me if any current politician or party spends more time,money and energy on the country than it's own fortunes?I didn't think so.
It is utterly sad what we accept as good government.

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-11-30 2:29:33 PM


I read you, Can Ob.

I'm just hoping the government I get isn't bad.
Good government would be like winning the lottery or finding a clown with a silver lining.
=.p

Posted by: Speller | 2006-11-30 2:39:05 PM


"Is anyone else tiring... ...glee that some dirt was discovered on some liberal supporters"

CO, this is fair sport and a valid discussion. If casual observation had picked up conversations like that on the way to a Reform convention (or even a Conservative one), it would be on the news, not a blog.

Posted by: Pete E | 2006-11-30 2:46:37 PM


You know, maybe if the politicos and commentariat didn't treat we the people with such contempt, we would have a reason for not treating them with contempt. Check out this sentance from Graham Thompson in today's Edmonton Champagne Socialists, Mastercard Marxists, and Limousine Liberals Journal:

"They're either working for one of the leadership campaigns, or they're crazy or a liar -- and at this point in the ledership race they're probably all three."

Then there's this headline on another article: "Muslim group backs Morton, gays side with Dinning." And another one: "Gays join push for Dinning." Did they really want to say that???

What a bunch of pandering twits. These people at the Journal, who claim to be "progressives", but in reality are hateful bastards, are doing more to destroy progress in our society than anyone else.

I did find this funny though: a judeo-christian homosexual I know is voting for Morton. He said, regarding him and his partner: what do we need marriage for, we co-own real property, what we need is lower taxes. Heh, I love borscht-belt humour ;-)

Posted by: Vitruvius | 2006-11-30 2:49:07 PM


God forbid we get a Liberal government any time soon. The mentality just isn't up to par if the train riders are an example. Were they sober or was there free booze on the rails?

Did someone not recently say they were one happy family again? Ya, right.
They are much more divided than the cracks of the butts wearing the Liberal Logo G-stringed panties Brisson held up for a photo-op.

If the people of the Country are paying attention we should put the buggers out of business for decades. What a MESS.

This is news, let's make it so. Any reporters reading this Blog who are honest and care about their country?

Posted by: Liz J | 2006-11-30 3:02:09 PM


RETARDS? I though they were referring to the convention delegates or candidates, guess I will have to pay a little more attention.

Posted by: Canadian plus | 2006-11-30 3:27:38 PM


The Liberal Party of Toronto is a train wreck.

Posted by: Philanthropist | 2006-11-30 3:29:54 PM


Retards?

I guess they were just late... again!

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2006-11-30 5:01:12 PM


Stop the train,

If you don't know why some Italians are deserving of ridicule then "fergedaboutdit"

FYI ... there are still a of daygos running around in Sansabelt trousers, Mr D collars, patten leather shoes and square back haircuts, driving big pimp cars ... triple black (black on black in black. know what I'm sayin'?

I spent seven years in an Italian neighborhood in Cleveland Ohio and I know that culture quite well.

Don't get me wrong, I love the I Ties. They can be very entertaining and generally have great family and work values.

When they immigrated en mass in the fifties they didn't line up for welfare like the current imports from the Middle East Infection, they started businesses because no one would hire them. Now they are prosperous, respected and fully assimilated.

But ............... some of them are still great fodder for ridicule.

Now ... who do I have to apologize to for saying these things?

Posted by: Duke | 2006-11-30 5:17:55 PM


"A couple of them are talking, loudly, about what to do about "retards."

Surely Mr. kinsella heard wrong and dey was conversing about 'retreads'.(after all, dat's what the candidates are capiche?)

So Pirelli produces a new All-Season Radial wit features dat cannot be met by da competition.
(know whadda mean?)

Dees tyrahs....
Dago true water!
Dago true snow!

BUT when dago ovah broken glass dago "WOP, WOP,WOP!"

Posted by: Speller | 2006-11-30 5:42:25 PM


CO
"It's time we tell ALL the major parties to go f*ck themselves and start supporting some independants who will put their country ahead of any partisan ambitions."

Good luck with that. We humans are social animal. We like our group identities for good or ill.

"I'm just pointing out the bizarre fact that WK has many conservatives sitting on the edge of their keyboards waiting to see if one of these guys will blow his nose then throw the tissue on the floor,just so we can point a finger and say'look,a bad liberal'!"

Bizzare fact? Have you been watching the MSM over the last few decades? Conservatives are trying to play catch up.

Ever hear of ...?
"potatoe"
"misunderestimated"
"I knew JFK,...you are no JFK"
This hour has 22 minutes.

...

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2006-11-30 6:17:11 PM


h2o,
Agree we are social animals....do you not realize there are countless other ways to express that than a partisan wolfpack attitude?

I'm disappointed,but not surprised,you are yet another who believes that since many liberal supporters swim in sewage to find dirt on conservatives that we belong there too.How are you any different from them then?

Think about it.

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-11-30 7:02:29 PM


CO,

"I'm disappointed,but not surprised,you are yet another who believes that since many liberal supporters swim in sewage to find dirt on conservatives that we belong there too.How are you any different from them then?"

I'm different because I'm not wallowing despite your disappointment. Did you not read my disagreement with Mike the Greek a few weeks back about overreaching with regards to "cornering" a female parliamentarian.

I happen to agree that it's juvenile and unimportant. However, I stated that it was not bizarre because conservatives are now doing what
Libs have done before. Why your confusion? See below for further clarification.

"do you not realize there are countless other ways to express that than a partisan wolfpack attitude?"

Excuse me? Being what I think is realistic about the likelihood that the average person is clueless in this regards does not mean that I don't realize it.

In other words, you and I are exceptionally well informed compared to the average Canadian sleepy head. They aren't likey to follow our advice or example any time soon.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2006-11-30 7:19:50 PM


The issues of the day are of such import that they have the intrinsic nature to call people of good faith to the colours.... black or white.

WHY? We are at War and leading up to this War the Socialist Liberal Party of Canada has stripped our defences and given the very food that should go to our defenders to Muslim immigrants who CANNOT live here by their faith except that they engage in Jihad.

These SAME Liberals politicized EVERTHING form culture to religion to the very health of it's citizens making ever issue a CRISIS and abusing the terms "War" and "Genocide" and now we stand defenceless with WAR and GENOCIDE sweeping the GLOBE and what worries them most about the Globe?

.....Warming. *spit*

(small wonder people are starting to join packs)

Posted by: Speller | 2006-11-30 7:54:23 PM


h2o,
Hey,all any of us can do is try and set a good example and hope others will be influenced.

I'm just getting so disgusted with the partisan circle-jerking going on while the country's multitude of problems go unaddressed.It is costing this nation dearly and I can only hope to open other's eyes to this reality.

Liberals sure aren't going to listen to my concerns(because of this 'I'm the enemy' mindset)so I must rely on my fellow conservatives.

You've at least considered my views,I can't ask for anything more than that.

Speller,
I feel your pain,seriously.
But,whenever I think of what liberalism has done to this country I remind myself that all us conservatives did not leave the country for 3 decades and return to find it this way.We allowed it to happen and bear some responsibility.

I also remind myself that the Mulroney Tories' arrogance and unashamed patronage was what got me motivated to vote for the first time.

I also witnessed it only took Klien 1 term to run out of ideas and start treading water.

Give Harper 12 more years and I'll guarantee his #1 mission while in power will be to stay in power.

We get what we will accept.

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-11-30 8:27:39 PM


CO,
I commend your attempts.

Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2006-11-30 8:32:33 PM


I have never accepted defeat on any issue which has been imparted through stealth, the courts(SCC) as opposed to clear Parliamentry initiative prior to election(hidden Liberal agendas), socialism by inches(not centimeters), grotesque toadying to immigrants while freezing Baby Bonuses and raising taxes to fund immigrants, Trudeaupian staggflation with the fixing of commodities and services abetted by straightarming American competition with duties, tariffs, and the outright exclusion of choice in American textiles, superior maufacturing, and retail outlets to favour Eastern Canadian Neo-Mercantilism, and the Socialist-Europification of our NORTH AMERICAN heritage and interest.

The down grading and DEgrading of Christian/Judeo institutions and the hamstringing of our localized courts(abetted by Liberal Judicial appointments based on monetary support for Liberal politcal power grabs) leaves me livid with lost hope and lusting for payback for the RETREADS of the Liberal Party whose paucity of planning permeates their very existence.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-11-30 9:02:38 PM


CO

"But,whenever I think of what liberalism has done to this country I remind myself that all us conservatives did not leave the country for 3 decades and return to find it this way.We allowed it to happen and bear some responsibility."

I think that is very incorrect. For years under Trudeau, the West felt as if it did not matter. I remember one election turning on the news and it was announced that the Liberals only needed to the Ontario/Manitoba border to get a majority. Now, short of armed resistance, Western Conservatives did not allow it to happen and therefore accept no blame for the responsibility. Eastern Conservatives were vastly outnumbered and again, short of armed resistance, were powerless under Canada's system to stop it. The responsibility is with the Liberals and with those who voted for them.

Your comments may be directed towards the Mulrooney Progressives and the very few Mulrooney Conservatives. If so, fair enough.

Posted by: Brent Weston | 2006-11-30 9:32:51 PM


When I first discovered these political blogs over a year ago,I was excited.What an opportunity to share ideas with all sorts of different Canadians from every corner of this diverse nation.
I soon discovered the only things shared between political camps were taunts and insults.When the very rare soft liberal showed up on a conservative blog,they were quickly viscerated.My own attempts at dialogue on liberal sites were ugly to say the least.What a collassal squandering of an opportunity to learn.
Instead,we hang around sites with like-minded individuals,reinforcing our own beliefs,rarely ever bothering to challenge them.
If you never question your own beliefs,you have no way of knowing their validity,especially if your constantly surrounded by cheerleaders.

Look,if it helps you guys sleep better at night to believe the evil left is solely responsible for all our ails,so be it.
But to let you in on a little secret,the hardcore libs,right down to their little toes,feel exactly the same way about you.

Any free-thinking individual should realize the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-11-30 10:15:31 PM


I think that politicians and their minions are so wrapped up in their own careers and living large that they have no idea what the big picture actually is.

They will all be very surprised someday when one of the "Packs" take many of them out back and shoots then. This happen in Romania to Carcescou on Xmas ever some years ago. He didn't see it coming either.

Power Corp has been behind the running of this country and of many other interests in the world for many years. They are not interested in the well-being of anything but Power Corp and and it's own. (that includes people like the Chretiens, the Marin's the Raes and many other scum bags who pretend to care .. they are all connected and those dots have already been connected and proved).

The rest of us are pawns. It has alway been this way, we just happen to live in a time a place where there is enough to go around to have us believe that we are important, valuable, meaningful and have a bag of rights to fall back on. All false.

The reason we have such a growing mess in Canada is because most Canadians have been indoctrinated in government schools over the past thirty years and most believe in the Progressive socialist horse shit like it is written in stone.

Unless we get rid of the Secular progressive nature of education we will not last much longer.

We have become a lot of soft warm shit in a diaper. We will get what we deserve.

The world has always been a tough place for the masses and a paradise for the Elites. The current elites would like it to return to that state ASAP. World socialism and world government by the wealth elites.

No more nouveau riche. No more Bill Gates and Donald Trumps no more innovation or brilliance or excellence ... just a lot of gray clad workers doing meaningless toil. Workers paradise ... chicken soup for all maybe and without actual chicken. I mean chickens have rights too.

We have enjoyed a major anomaly in human history. Our previous enlightened way of life led to the possibility of free enterprise, high standard of living even for the lazy and useless.

The big fly in the ointment is the guilt in that that we have so much while much of the rest of the world has so little. Well, that's what happens when freedom is forbidden. No one has the incentive to get up on their hind legs and do something new and different. Slaves and peasant everywhere with monkeys in charge.

Remember this. The benefits we all enjoy were brought about by greedy entrepreneurs who needed skilled workers to make their dream come true. That is why government schools came in to being. The result was enough wealth to make entire countries rich, peaceful and relatively happy.

That is all being flushed down the toiled by weak kneed dull witted, short-sighted politicians and their sycophants along with a completely duped populace. The educational industry has morphed into a black hole of intolerance and mediocrity.

Wait and see. If you live long enough you will witness the end of freedom and enlightenment and the return to global poverty with no United states to come to the rescue when you the big wave hits your island.


Posted by: Duke | 2006-11-30 10:47:35 PM


"Now ... who do I have to apologize to for saying these things?"

No one of course. But just cause we don't drown our Kraft mac 'n cheese in ketchup is no reason for you to get so jumpy. To us, that's what's real fodder for ridicule. But i digress, sort of.
I just doubt you know the culture like you think you do. Never been to Cleveland's infamous Little Italy, but I'll still bet it didn't teach you much. As a conservative, I'd be placing my ire toward much less assimilated ethnic groups

Posted by: Stopthetrain | 2006-11-30 11:31:55 PM


Look,if it helps you guys sleep better at night to believe the evil left is solely responsible for all our ails,so be it.
"But to let you in on a little secret,the hardcore libs,right down to their little toes,feel exactly the same way about you.

Any free-thinking individual should realize the truth lies somewhere in the middle."
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 30-Nov-06 10:15:31 PM

It's no secret, Can Ob.
What appears to be a secret FROM YOU, after the time you claim you've spent blogging, is that people with a Leftist viewpoint never act in good faith.

The Leftist goal is to implement International Communism by inches using identity politics as it's goal and will stop at nothing to gain power, including running as Progressive Conservatives or Conservative Party of Canada candidates, to achieve it.

As to the moderate middle, that is too easy for Liberal wolves in moderate sheeps clothing to infiltrate. Bad faith from Liberals has polarized ideology and it takes hard stands to return to equilibrium.

Fifteen years ago these Liberals were swearing up and down that we Social Conservatives were crazy, harping on a slippery slope fallacious argument that the Liberals were intending to implement Same Sex Marriage by the thin end of the wedge. Today we have Same Sex Marriage.

Liberals and bad faith? You better believe it. They ARE evil.

The people who run this site believe so fervently in Leftist bad faith that they refuse to implement registration because the only Liberals they ever get here are trolls who post under multiple nics, drive by spammers etc.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-12-01 8:52:21 AM


Speller:

Thanks for that. Now I do not have to respond to that point C.O. made. However, I would like to respond to another point.

"When I first discovered these political blogs over a year ago,I was excited.What an opportunity to share ideas with all sorts of different Canadians from every corner of this diverse nation. I soon discovered the only things shared between political camps were taunts and insults."

"Only things" is probably a bit strong, but I think you mean there are too many insults and name-calling even here. I agree; good point.

Posted by: Brent Weston | 2006-12-01 9:11:47 AM


The taunts and insults are the contribution Leftists have made to the'debate'. Conservatives own the facts, so naturally when a Liberal cannot actually debate they resort to taunts, insults, lies, and gross exaggeration.

Yes, such behaviour is becoming too pervasive from Conservatises. It is born of frustration and open recognition that Leftists have bad faith.

Conservatives would LOVE to have a civilized debate, but ever time we treat Leftists as though they have good faith and clobber them with the facts they resort to taunts, insults, lies, and gross exaggeration.

Racist: definition> Anyone winning an argument with a Leftist.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-12-01 9:35:19 AM


Speller,
I read your 8:52 post and the liberal term 'scary' immediately came to mind.

"They ARE evil"

Nice label to attach to about 30% of Canadians....how do you expect me to take anything else you say seriously with emotional hysteria like that?
You have lost perspective my friend.The trolls and other assorted hardcore lefties who get their sick jollies visiting conservative sites DO NOT represent the average liberal.Ignore this simple truth at your own peril.

Brent,
If you could steer me to any blog where the left and right conduct civilized debate,I would be very appreciative....I believe no such site exists though.As a matter of fact,if you can even show me a thread where anything constructive was accomplished between a lib and a con,I'd be impressed.WHICH IS THE VERY POINT I have been trying to make on THIS thread.

You know,the best thing I did this past summer was take a 2 month hiatus from these political blogs.It was surprisingly difficult,but absolutely neccessary.I had become little more than a hate-mongerer of the left,reinforced by my fellow con bloggers,kind of like Speller is now.
Mostly,what I see these sites,right or left,accomplishing now is to reinforce biases and polarize the left/right.....such a waste.

I challenge either one of you to play devil's advocate on an active conservative thread and you'll soon discover how close-minded and vulgar many conservatives can be.
As a matter of fact,this is ONLY the second time I have challenged my peers without being attacked,insulted or ridiculed by my fellow conservatives.Again.if you doubt me,I suggest you try it yourself.

For civily considering my opinions here,I commend and thank you.

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-12-01 11:30:29 AM


"The trolls and other assorted hardcore lefties who get their sick jollies visiting conservative sites DO NOT represent the average liberal.Ignore this simple truth at your own peril."
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 1-Dec-06 11:30:29 AM
I thought we we talking about the civility of the debate on the BLOG, at least you strongly implied that.

Is there an average Liberal? Who cares?
Not this Albertan.

I don't care if you take me seriously or not.
I post to influence Albertans.


"how do you expect me to take anything else you say seriously with emotional hysteria like that?"
Posted by: Canadian Observer | 1-Dec-06 11:30:29 AM

Emotional hysteria, eh.
That's inflammatory language, don'cha know.
Highly immoderate.

I like polemics. :vD

Posted by: Speller | 2006-12-01 11:51:09 AM


CO,

If you need to feel loved by the left and the right, perhaps I could suggest Lavalife rather than blogging.

If you can't understand the frustration and actual deep seated anger in watching this country being torn apart by these complete socialist imbeciles, disguising themselves in the flavor of the day, then I guess your on the wrong site.

This in not a game, and "nice", "civil" debate is not what's needed. Real change is needed or our very survival is at stake.

Those of us that have been pushed up against the wall and have simply had enough of this stupidity called government forced on us by central Canada are angry.

Do you not realize that any formation of a Liberal government will at best cause the break up of this country, and at the worst a potential civil uprising?

That's how angry I am, and I have no time to debate the merits of a leftist point, which has been proven moot many times over. Bring real facts or get the hell out of my face.

I am emotional because I love my country. The left only wants to change this country to meet its own centrist socialist view. Under leftist control this country has taken a rapid decline in every area. History has shown the leftist ideology to be a complete failure anywhere it has been implemented.

Those are facts beyond debate.

If you want to sit on the fence and watch the county go down, that is your choice. I choose to be emotional.

Posted by: deepblue | 2006-12-01 12:12:28 PM


CO:

"If you could steer me to any blog where the left and right conduct civilized debate,I would be very appreciative....I believe no such site exists though.As a matter of fact,if you can even show me a thread where anything constructive was accomplished between a lib and a con,I'd be impressed.WHICH IS THE VERY POINT I have been trying to make on THIS thread."

Now I understand your point. I believe that what you are seeking may be found but not in the way you are looking for it.

Deep philosophical beliefs that people have are not changed in a few minutes and that is why most of the type of discussions you refer to are fruitless. There are even instructions on the Web on how to be a good troll; to successfully disrupt a thread is important to some people. In short, some people try to sabotage discussions. I have had "discussions" with those on the left (even here), but I do not let them turn into a "debate", much less an insulting exchange. I try to treat people the way I expect to be treated. Some others (from both sides) are different.

Now, if you are really serious about learning what the left believes (and why) your best recourse is to visit a leftist site. I do not visit leftist blogs, but I do visit leftist sites of information rather frequently.

I thought your initial post referred to a discussion forum on the right - to sharpen and hone rightist ideas. We do have that here sometimes and is quite helpful and informative at the best of times. However, it is not always like that. For the most part, I try to stay out of the personality discussions (people) and get engaged only in the policy discussions (ideas).

Posted by: Brent Weston | 2006-12-01 1:16:34 PM


deepblue,
Gee,your methodology has worked really well so far hasn't it?This country is in shambles and getting more and more fractured by the day with the corrupt LPC hovering like vultures for a comeback and you come after me?Since I am not a leftist,your little rant has no point but to demonstrate your ignorance.You say you love this country more than me?...you'd make an outstanding liberal with that tactic.
BTW,I didn't waste your time,you managed to do that all by your little lonesome with your whiny,self-rightious post.
Thanks for demonstrating my earlier point that lots of arrogant,close-minded bloggers live on the right too!

Speller,
I did not IMPLY that,I thought I stated it rather CLEARLY.
How can you fairly debate any leftist if you condemn all of them as evil?Hopefully you understand dialogue with the left is a neccessary evil as Canada will not survive without it.Separation or civil war may be our only remaining options.

If you don't care about your opponents POV,what are you trying to accomplish by posting yours?I don't believe Albertans need any more help to hate liberals.Even Edmontonians finally figured it out!

"They ARE evil"....It doesn't get any more inflammatory than that!

Oh,and I appreciate that you like polemics....I assume that's why you haven't told me to get stuffed yet. ;)

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-12-01 1:18:19 PM


CO,

Gee, you still here?

I made the country a shambles by keeping the corrupt liberals in? Your funny.

www.lavalife.com

Posted by: deepblue | 2006-12-01 1:37:15 PM


This thread begs the question:

Is there such a thing as a moderate Liberal?

Or are Liberals really a tribal relic in need of reformation and enlightenment?

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-12-01 1:37:15 PM


By the way, this is a Liberal bashing'ridiculing thread.

Can Ob,
Yes, well, I never claimed to be a moderate, you did, Can Ob. Or at least thinking there is some sort of place to meet minds with people who support murdering babies, sex with 14 year olds, restrictions on free speech, restrictions on third party spending during an election phase, trashing the 1867 Constituion Act, same sex perversion, lying, stealing, voting franchises for convicts,....well you get the idea.....evil, implies that you think highly of moderation for it's very own sake.

Using the term 'implied', earlier, was for irony as a gesture to the notion that we were debating people on, you know, this blog and others, rather than some nebulous 'average liberal' who never seems to have ever made an appearance. I know you were clear or tried to be.

I post my views because there are so many people who read blogs like this who hold the same view but have been bombarded into silence by the meme that these views are fringe when they are, in fact, mainstream.

Emotional hysteria, puhleeze.

Telling you to get stuffed when you already are would be redundant.
(_!_)

Posted by: Speller | 2006-12-01 1:45:13 PM


nomdenet,
Damn fine question.I used to know two of them and after a couple of months in the blogosphere,they became trolls...I kid you not!
They fell prey to the same incessant biases we often witness here,but of course for the 'other' team.I still occasionally see them on blogs taunting and baiting cons.F*cking sad really.

deepblue,
You talk about wasting people's time...
Why am I not surprised you seem obsessed with Lava Life...best of luck with that...

Brent,
Thanks for 'getting it'...I always thought I was a pretty good communicator,you've reminded me that there is always room for improvement.

As I mentioned in my previous entry,too many on the right and left do not understand that without dialogue,there is no future for this country.I guess I'll have to accept the fact the blogosphere is not the proper forum to find common ground.
We must find some way to come together(ick,that sounds so dipperish)as a country or we are doomed.Beating each other over the head sure isn't going to accomplish anything.(other than headaches)

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-12-01 1:50:50 PM


This posted about 20 minutes ago by Kinsella:

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/features/liberalleadership2006/kinsella.html

Posted by: Brent Weston | 2006-12-01 1:54:03 PM


CO:

"As I mentioned in my previous entry,too many on the right and left do not understand that without dialogue,there is no future for this country...."

Dialogue will not save the country. The left has made many advances over the last 40 years. Suppose for a moment that the right simply asked that in certain areas we went back to where we were 40 years ago and then had their go at things for the next 40 years. Now that would be a fair discussion. But that is not on the table.

It is not wrong to ask "Is the country worth saving?" The US went through this in their early years between 1776 and 1789. The Declaration of Independence (1776) has some good values in it but it is a terrible piece for putting a nation together. The US Constitution (1789) was the answer to keeping the country together. The solution to Canada's problems must involve the Constitution and not simply for Quebec; a failure to realize this will prompt some like Alberta to seek its own solution.

Now, just because some are asking about the future survivability of the nation does not imply that it is already doomed. It simply reflects the current situation. If an Eastern Liberal were to say to Alberta "just leave as fast as you can", well that can mean at least two things. It could mean that they do not believe Alberta Independence is a real option to more and more Albertans and it is their way of calling the bluff (at least as they would see it). However, it could also be the considered response of a thoughtful Liberal who has indeed weighed the issues and has decided that good fences make good neighbours. That same Eastern Liberal might even be aware that (s)he will be poorer without Alberta but is prepared to pay the price to retain "Liberal" values.

It is not wrong to ask the question about Canada's future. In the history of the world, nations do not retain their borders for hundreds of years; we may be at one of those junctures in history...

Posted by: Brent Weston | 2006-12-01 2:18:07 PM


CO this may sound like a quibble but actually I’m not sure that we do need “common ground”. What we need is dissent, competition and choice. In this case … choice of political parties and leadership.

That’s why the free market works. With Health Care for example, it should not be based on one “common ground” solution. Health is too complicated to be agreed upon. That’s why the government run Health monopoly is broken. We need competition and choice and the invisible hand of capitalism to sort out the optimum resources (technological and human) that need to go into delivery of Health Care.

With Liberal rule we got no dissent. With Chrétien, especially, he took the attitude of … the UN says Canada is number one, so be happy. It was un-Canadian to dissent. But as we see in the business world, it is only by dissent and choice that we make improvements. Maybe what you're saying is that we eventually have to decide and do something, that’s true. Liberals were too cautious and pessimistic to act because they were afraid to use political capital and make a mistake. So we were stuck for 13 years .. Dithers was even more cowardly than Chrétien. However, often there is no right answer, it's simply trial and error.

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-12-01 2:23:21 PM


Eastern Liberal is a redundant term.
Western Liberal, now that specifies a rare breed.

I think Warren Kinsella misheard and the term was retreads not retards. Those were probably New Liberals Kinsella heard talking about the Old Chretien/Martin Liberals as everybody knows that ALL Liberals are retards.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-12-01 2:30:10 PM


Brent,
We may very well be in a winless situation..

With a true conservative agenda,Quebec and much of Ontario scream bigots,rednecks(you know the rest).
With a liberal agenda,Alberta and many other westerners scream...well...just read some of Speller's hateful posts.

There are two facts we may never expect to change.

1.Canada is a democracy.

2.We conservatives are a definite minority in that democracy.

That and the fact conservatism and liberalism are NOT black and white.I know of cons who support SSM,libs who are against abortion,etc,etc.There is no partisan utopia for either side.

As you state,history has countless times proven that nationhoods are not static and can be relied upon to change.A fact we may all just have to accept.
BTW,thanks for the link.

nomdenet,
I generally agree with your thoughts.I just believe that a refusal to even try is the start of the end for Canada as we know it.I find that damn hard to accept.

I cannot help wondering...if us friendly Canadians,living in the lap of luxury as most do,can't get our shit together to resolve our differences,what hope does the rest of the world have? God...now I'm really depressed.

Maybe we should return to ridiculing liberals...

Posted by: Canadian Observer | 2006-12-01 3:27:41 PM


CO, I live in Toronto. It isn’t a case of getting along or agreeing with say Calgary or Montreal; it’s as you say, “let’s get started”. But let’s get started at developing a highly competitive attitude. Our mayor won’t admit it but Toronto isn’t even competing with Calgary, Toronto is competing with New York and Chicago more than it is Calgary or Vancouver. And Vancouver is competing with Seattle for being the gateway to Asia.

It’s about economics. IMHO, it’s not about SSM, however some utopians on the right and left want to compete on those arguments. Meanwhile, jobs will flow like water elsewhere and we’ll all be commuting like the Newfies now are to Ft McMurray and their issue isn’t SSM, it’s NSM (no sex) which leads to NM.

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-12-01 3:47:07 PM


Yes, deepblue, Can Ob is still here.

Can Ob thinks Albertan's don't have a right they bought and payed for with blood, sweat, and their stolen future to hate Ontarians and Easterners in general.
Have they ever apologized or repented of the evil they have done? No.
Are there any genuine conservatives in the East? No.
Just mush brained progressives like Can Ob who want to provide a 5th column in the Conservative movement and urge we open ourselves up to Liberal cunning and dissembling by being moderate when all the NDP/Liberals want is hegemony and One State Totalitarianism.

How contemptuous Can Ob must be to insult our intelligence by suggesting we are hateful when the Liberals are the aggressors and we the victims.

In the last Federal election the CPC barely formed the government in the face of flagrant Liberal corruption. Now that Easterners think the have spanked the Liberals hard enough by making them sit in opposition over a minority government it will surely be business as usual with the complacently corrupt Eastern 'moderates'.

Can Ob, while pompously posing as a conservative moderate, is part of the problem, not the solution.

"Maybe we should return to ridiculing liberals..."
Posted by: Canadian Observer | Friday, December 01, 2006 at 03:27 PM

I must have missed the part where Can Ob ridiculed the Liberals.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-12-01 4:04:50 PM



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