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Sunday, August 20, 2006

Jihad is a non-negotiable position

Liberals think that we have been able to negotiate with our enemies before, we can negotiate with jihadists now. No, you can't argue with people who want to kill you and they don't stop until they achieve their bloody goals of mass murdering every one of non-believers.

No, Jihad is a non-negotiable position as Melanie Phillips, author of Londonistan, puts it in her interview with Fox News.

Posted by Winston on August 20, 2006 in Current Affairs, International Affairs, Religion | Permalink

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Cultures are not equal. That’s why immigrants left their hellholes.
Only the utopian post-modern cultural relativists believe everything is equal, an attempt to keep Marxism alive. Islam would die in a Darwinian way if it weren’t propped up by oil in the hands of despots trying to fan the flames of Islam to distract Muslims from their failed tribal economies.

Your multi-culti policy is what’s wrong with the West. Notre Dame will be a mosque soon so it’s too late for France but Canadians can now see this EU multi-culti disaster could also happen here if we elect Liberals.

The next election will be fought on utopian issues such as Multiculturalism, which somewhere along the line got confused with tolerance and diversity, which are good things to have. But people did not leave Calcutta for Canada just to bring the hellhole with them. They want to integrate and assimilate not be ghettoized for cynical Liberal purposes of divide and conquer for power.

As to the question of who’s got the stick? One fly-past over the Mullahs of a Stealth bomber, which cost $2.2 billion dollars, will bring ‘em to the table, right after they mop up after themselves. Israel is rearming and getting their food supplies ready for the big battle with the Hez – the Lebanese have lost all heart – they’re as helpless as the French.

I never said the IF would be conquered. It’s like crime, so are utopians like crime, these evils can’t be conquered, they must constantly be sought out and crushed – literally or figuratively at the polls. That’s why I don’t have a plan. Because winning is about determination to maintain a superior culture paid for by capitalism and shared with those that believe in democracy, tolerance for others and respect for diversity. New immigrants understand this Conservative philosophy is more in keeping with why they came to Canada in the first place and the Liberals can no longer intimidate them.

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-08-22 3:10:54 PM


> Cultures are not equal. That’s why immigrants left
> their hellholes.

Did they leave their culture behind or their political system? Those are two different things (although at times related)

> Only the utopian post-modern cultural
> relativists believe everything is equal, an
> attempt to keep Marxism alive.

So for you all Humans are not equal? Careful slippery slope, we had that proclaimed before.

> Islam would die in a Darwinian way if it weren’t
> propped up by oil in the hands of despots trying
> to fan the flames of Islam to distract Muslims
> from their failed tribal economies.

And who is financing this? Ah yes, we are. We were for a very long time quite happy to give weapons and money to those people. This is our own bed we made.

> Your multi-culti policy is what’s wrong with the
> West. Notre Dame will be a mosque soon so it’s
> too late for France but Canadians can now see
> this EU multi-culti disaster could also happen
> here if we elect Liberals.

Ummm, Canada by my observation has been way more multi cultural than Europe is. Actually Europe is rather segregated.

There is also a difference between multiculturism and rolling over and playing dead. The problem in France are home made, when they gave up their (Islamic) colonies they brought a lot of "loyal" people with them (after losing the war in Morocco) and they never really tried integration. Have you been to France? Yeah, "Downtown Paris" is nice, but there is a second world where segregation is the norm, crappy places mostly inhabited by second and third generation Moroccans, that's where France's problem came from they were always preventing this, the pride of the French at work.

People of different cultures CAN live with each other if they have respect for the other cultures, if that is missing than obviously it won't work.

> The next election will be fought on utopian
> issues such as Multiculturalism, which somewhere
> along the line got confused with tolerance and
> diversity, which are good things to have. But
> people did not leave Calcutta for Canada just to
> bring the hellhole with them. They want to
> integrate and assimilate not be ghettoized for
> cynical Liberal purposes of divide and conquer
> for power.

I think we have different definitions on what Multiculturalism is.

> As to the question of who’s got the stick? One
> fly-past over the Mullahs of a Stealth bomber,
> which cost $2.2 billion dollars, will bring ‘em
> to the table, right after they mop up after
> themselves.

Doubtful, short of an allout invasion you will not see Iran make any serious concessions, they don't fear us. Not because of them "embracing death" but because of them realizing that we aren't as mighty as we claim to be. If we'd caught Osama, if we'd pacified Iraq, then yes, they would take us serious, but we haven't and they don't.

They realized that our big stick is made of paper.

> Israel is rearming and getting their food
> supplies ready for the big battle with the Hez

It will be bloody, will maybe bring a year or so of peace while Hezbollah is regrouping and then it'll start all over again. Pretty much has been the thing for the past 30 years.

> – the Lebanese have lost all heart – they’re as
> helpless as the French.

Which makes them very very dangerous. If they think they're defeated and they have nothing to lose they may just decide to take as many Israelis as they can with them.

> I never said the IF would be conquered.

IF would be the Government of Iran (if there is something like IF) obviously Iran could be conquered.

> It’s like crime, so are utopians like crime,
> these evils can’t be conquered, they must
> constantly be sought out and crushed – literally
> or figuratively at the polls.

Have you ever read Utopia? If not I suggest you read it, you can find it here:

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2130

Like it or not, but the world needs dreamers as much as hard asses, without either of them we'd spiral out of control, they keep things in balance, like to strong magnets.

> That’s why I don’t have a plan. Because winning
> is about determination to maintain a superior
> culture paid for by capitalism and shared with
> those that believe in democracy, tolerance for
> others and respect for diversity.

You ARE hopefully aware that some of your "check points" contradict each other? I would also be careful with the words you're using, those were used by quite a few people throughout history, the end result was never good.

> New immigrants understand this Conservative
> philosophy is more in keeping with why they came
> to Canada in the first place and the Liberals
> can no longer intimidate them.

I think people came to Canada for a variety of reasons, and I doubt very much that an open hostility to "others" is making anybody feel welcome.

Or let me try this differently: Multiculturism does not mean giving up ones own cultures, it means the culture exists besides others and yes over time they will form something new. That has happened several times throughout human history. This is only threatening if you define yourself with a handful of things that are unique to your culture instead of having a broader base to stand on.

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-22 4:39:27 PM


In Canada Humans (unlike cultures) should be given an equal opportunity to the degree possible as often as possible; but the outcomes won’t be equal – only utopians try to make outcomes equal – that’s why communism fails. Cultures are definately not equal – ask any Canadian from Calcutta.

Yes the French and the Russians are still giving IF’s weapons even knowing what we know now – unbelievable.

Canada is less ghettoizes then the EU because immigrants have assimilated in Canada quite well in spite of Liberal multi –culti policies. But evidence is mounting that may be changing. In any event, conservatives favour diversity, especially diversity of thought versus Liberal groupthink, as long as diversity is tolerant. New immigrants should swear allegiance to Canada and a declaration that they understand and agree with the separation of church/mosque and state; agree with respect for women=men etc. – on that note, IF’s need not apply.

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-08-22 5:17:12 PM


> In Canada Humans (unlike cultures) should be given
> an equal opportunity to the degree possible as
> often as possible; but the outcomes won’t be
> equal
> – only utopians try to make outcomes equal –
> that’s why communism fails. Cultures are
> definately not equal – ask any Canadian from
> Calcutta.

Two things here:

1. Equal does not have to mean the same, but Equal as in standing. I do believe that cultures are equal in the sense that there is no superior culture, that doesn't mean they aren't different.

2. Comunism like Capitalism don't work because they are too extreme of systems, both of them are ideals that won't be obtainable due to the human factor.

None the less, a "cuthroat" society will in the end only cut it's own throat so things like a Social System that lessen the blows of life are necessary.

> Yes the French and the Russians are still giving
> IF’s weapons even knowing what we know now –
> unbelievable.

Because Iran and North Kora are BOTH political items that are used as pawns on the world stage. And obviously their is their Oil.

> Canada is less ghettoizes then the EU because
> immigrants have assimilated in Canada quite well
> in spite of Liberal multi –culti policies.

No, they have integrated because Canada does not try to tell people how they have to live their lives as long as they don't cause a problem.

European countries usually were far stricter in what they considered "European". The French especially are notorious for it. The Dutch on the other hand are pretty much the Canada of Europe (or were anyways).

> But evidence is mounting that may be changing.

Sure, there are probably more radical elements in this country now than there were six years ago. The question is why.

I think it has two main reasons:

1. There have been loud voices that question the loyality of muslims and people with similar cultural background. That "threatens" people of these faiths.

2. People who were / are unhappy are starting to feel there is a way to "get back at "them"", whoever "them" may be in their mind.

> In any event, conservatives favour diversity,
> especially diversity of thought versus Liberal
> groupthink, as long as diversity is tolerant.
> New immigrants should swear allegiance to Canada
> and a declaration that they understand and agree
> with the separation of church/mosque and state;
> agree with respect for women=men etc. – on that
> note, IF’s need not apply.

All fine and well, if you become a Canadian Citizen you do have to swear alliegence, and if you're not a Citizen there is always the Security Certificate.

As for the "women and men are equal" sorry, but that's funny, because if you look at the crime statistics you can see that even "good Canadian Men" don't necessarily seem to agree with that sentiment (and yes, that is a rather sad laugh).

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-22 5:32:16 PM


Snowrunner – capitalism works!

Islam is a socio-political system wrapped up in a religion. It is a culture that is inferior to our base Canadian culture which started with the Magna Carta, transformed with the reformation, changed again with women voting etc etc.

In Iran for example, their religion rules. There is no “render unto Caesar …”. The theocracy of the Mullah is the Government in Iran, the judiciary and the army report directly to the un-elected Mullahs - that’s what utopians can’t grasp. So utopians de facto harbour the IF’s and support it when they say these screwed up cultures are equal to ours.

I meant that men and women are equal under the law; again that doesn’t mean equal outcomes.

Also that suggested pledge to allegiance should be done everyday in our schools.

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-08-22 5:49:14 PM


@ Snowrunner,

No. I was not talking about the Bath Party.

You are out there, and not living in reality. Get yourself an education!

I was talking about Mohammad Amin al-Husayni and his gang of islamofacists! He was an Uncle of yassir arafat, to be exact.


For your baby-steps to beginner education, you could start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

Has some short articles, and should lead to you to gaining the knowledge, to where you might become a knowledgeable particpant on this blog. Until then, you are spouting out ignorance!

Posted by: Lady | 2006-08-22 5:51:05 PM


@nomendent

> Snowrunner – capitalism works!

Where? Here in Canada? The US? That's not Capitalism as called for by the theory of Capitalism. Intead we have a socialistic market with Capitalistic influences.

A big hint for that is that we have regulatory agencies of the Government, a true Capitalistic world would control itself.

> Islam is a socio-political system wrapped up in
> a religion. It is a culture that is inferior to
> our base Canadian culture which started with the
> Magna Carta, transformed with the reformation,
> changed again with women voting etc etc.

Islam first and foremost is a religion like Buddhism, Christianity etc.

SOME countries took this religion on as a core of their morales (as have many western countries with the Bible), that's a difference.

> In Iran for example, their religion rules. There
> is no “render unto Caesar …”. The theocracy of
> the Mullah is the Government in Iran, the
> judiciary and the army report directly to the
> un-elected Mullahs - that’s what utopians can’t
> grasp.

You reverse the logic here. The Mullah made himself head of state, he THEN argues that he is supposed to be head of state because his book says so. This does not mean that Islam (the religion) wants him to be in charge, it is just his interpretation.

Christianity had this too once, you know, hence the Pope who makes similar claims being "God's man on earth".

> So utopians de facto harbour the IF’s and
> support it when they say these screwed up
> cultures are equal to ours.

Culture is history, why shouldn't Islam be equal to Christianity if they end up respecting Christianity as an equal as well?

> I meant that men and women are equal under the
> law; again that doesn’t mean equal outcomes.

What does it matter what is written on paper if the reality is different? To say "we have it on the books that we are the better people" doesn't MAKE us the better (or superior) people it is our actions that proof or disprove our claims.

Yes, equal rights are important, but only if they are actually adhered to. Just having them in a book is pretty useless.

> Also that suggested pledge to allegiance should
> be done everyday in our schools.

Why? If anything we should pledge to an IDEAL that is at the core of the State not the state itself.

If our elected leaders are violating these spirits and intends we should be anything but supportive. I am not a fan of "guns for everybody" but I can get behind the spirit in which the second amendment was created in the US.

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-22 6:59:34 PM


@Lady,

> No. I was not talking about the Bath Party.

Maybe you should read up on them then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baath_Party

> You are out there, and not living in reality.
> Get yourself an education!

Am I? Where, oh mistress of wisdom am I wrong?

> I was talking about Mohammad Amin al-Husayni and
> his gang of islamofacists! He was an Uncle of
> yassir arafat, to be exact.

Good for him.

> For your baby-steps to beginner education, you
> could start here.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni
>
> Has some short articles, and should lead to you
> to gaining the knowledge, to where you might
> become a knowledgeable particpant on this blog.
> Until then, you are spouting out ignorance!

So what is this article going to show me? That there are people out there who don't like Jews, the British occupation of Palestine and that there are people out there who are willing to murder for this?

Yeah gee, wasn't aware of that.

Maybe you can enlightend me exactly to WHAT I am not aware of?

You may also want to re-read what I am writing and maybe try to understand it, that is if through that veil of rage you can actually still make out the computer screen and decipher the words.

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-22 7:06:24 PM


Ok snowrunner, we’ve staked out our positions, there’s a big divide on our respective views as to what civilization is and how to conserve it.

Conservatives will happily run an election on this great divide. So pick your leader, it’ll have to be Dion, isn’t it a Francophone’s turn to wag the dog?

Posted by: nomdenet | 2006-08-23 7:00:12 AM


I don't believe in large parties. In the past I have already voted for the smaller parties that the big ones had to align themselves with.

My logic being that they would end up balancing each other out and provide a truer picture of what society as a whole would want.

So my vote may go to the NDP although I do not fully agree with their programs, also don't fully agree with any of the other parties. Voting for the smallest guy I hope to get some balance in this.

And yes, that is a European approach to voting, I am very well aware that with the current Canadian System that strategy doesn't work that well. The voting system truly needs to be overhauled.

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-23 8:29:52 AM


Snowrunner -

There is no differentiating between the State and individuals running the State in the Iranian regime. It is a terrorist governemnt made up of terrorist individuals.

Your intial statement of ignoring terrorists so as not to empower them, was correct. Don't backslide.

They are NOT the Soviet Union or nazi Germany or anyone else. These are terroristic, religious fanatics. They CANNOT be negotiated with.

Posted by: C.H. | 2006-08-24 5:07:33 AM


C.H.

Does it matter what someone is radical about? Be it religion, an ideology etc.?

Stalin and Hitler where both radicals about their ideas, they both used force to get where they wanted.

So why (in your eyes) was it okay to negotiate with them but now not with Iran?

The "hardliners" on here seem to misunderstand negotiation and apeasement, though it is pretty clear the hammer did not work and as far as I can tell Iran and North Korea (the other two parts of the axis of evil) don't really fear us (anymore).

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-24 4:42:59 PM


You want to negotiate...okay, so maybe they agree to only wipe half of Israel off the map of the world ? Do you think that would be a good deal ? :)

Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-08-24 4:56:19 PM


Hey Mark,

I have no idea what they want. Someone has to differentiate between chest thumbing and real obtainable goals. The current Iranian Government doesn't strike me as a bunch of idiots, if they were they wouldn't be in power anymore.

Besides, I am sure if Israel wouldn't consider negotiations still useful they'd already flown some air attacks against the Iranian Nuclear installations, they didn't had any issues with this when it came to Iraq and I doubt that the US Air force would interfere if they would fly through Iraq.

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-24 5:01:23 PM


SN: I don't have a problem negotiating with these guys. As long as by the end of it (exit strategy as the Dems. say) they give up their nuke capabilities and nuclear watchdog has complete access to their facilities, and if they break the agreement then they get complete blockade and sanctions, until they comply. Again an exit strategy, say 3 weeks to comply, then bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!

Oh yeah, and no carrots. Just do what we say or get the stick!

Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-08-24 7:01:05 PM


Snowrunner -

"Does it matter what someone is radical about?"

Yes, it does. There is nothing like religious fanaticism, because the philosophy and beliefs, are not based on reason or logical theories or sociological concepts or studies, etc. They are based on Faith and God. Total intangibles.

And if the religious fanatic is also a believer in armageddon to the point of sacrificing not only all his own people's lives but his own life, to reach that end, then there is absolutely NOTHING that you can say or do to change that person's mind.
If the goal is the destruction of the world, not power or money in order to take it over, but to totally destroy it for religious beliefs, there is NO bargain you can make, because you have absolutely nothing to offer.

Ahmadinejad and his mentor, Mesbah Yazdi (who may become the next Supreme Leader before the year is out) are believers in armegeddon or "the End Times", and the return of the mahdi, and believe they need to make it happen very soon. - Already announced that it will be completed within the next 2 years. They aren't interested in negotiating anything. Their goal is the destruction of the world in order to hasten the return of the mahdi.

Sleep on that one for a while.

Posted by: C.H. | 2006-08-26 8:20:04 PM


Mark,

I am not sure we have the stick any more, I said this earlier, with the failed Invasion in Iraq and the lack of being able to control it now (and don't kid yourself, if they somehow would get their shit together this would be very very ugly very very fast) they don't fear "us" anymore, and I don't think they have to worry.

@C.H.

I agree religion is bad for exactly those reasons, but it doesn't really matter, people who are fanatical about something usually don't listen to reasen, doesn't matter what their believes are.

> And if the religious fanatic is also a believer
> in armageddon to the point of sacrificing not
> only all his own people's lives but his own
> life, to reach that end, then there is
> absolutely NOTHING that you can say or do to
> change that person's mind.

You mean like a lot on the right in the US were already clamoring on the idea that August 22nd the world would come to an end due to the "final war" would start? We have those people too, and the US President G.W.Bush needs them for his vote, that worries me quite a bit when it comes to his policies in the far east.

> If the goal is the destruction of the world, not
> power or money in order to take it over, but to
> totally destroy it for religious beliefs, there
> is NO bargain you can make, because you have
> absolutely nothing to offer.

Agreed, but nation states usually aren't in that mode, they are usually still interested in their own survival. I would predict that any ruler who is mad enough to believe this and tries to get to this point will be taken out by other fanatics before he could get to the point. The higher the stakes, the bigger the price one has to pay when one fails.

> Ahmadinejad and his mentor, Mesbah Yazdi (who
> may become the next Supreme Leader before the
> year is out) are believers in armegeddon or "the
> End Times", and the return of the mahdi, and
> believe they need to make it happen very soon. -
> Already announced that it will be completed
> within the next 2 years. They aren't interested
> in negotiating anything. Their goal is the
> destruction of the world in order to hasten the
> return of the mahdi.

Got some links? I would like to read up on that.

I did follow the salviating over the end of times in the American Media / Religous right though, they seem to want the same thing.

I still think we should find a nice open desert, throw all fanatics in there and let them fight it out to the death. The Survivor will then be shot into the sun.

Yes yes, I am dreaming, will never happen.

Posted by: Snowrunner | 2006-08-26 10:06:43 PM



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