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Tuesday, August 29, 2006
Criminals or Terrorists
It's always been my question: Are those radical muslims trying to kill us criminals or religious terrorists? Which one are they?
Why do most Canadians think these radicals are just bunch of gangs or criminals and why they hesitate to call them for what they are?
I am really getting frustrated at this ignorance among many people who don't want to believe that this country, like any other western nation, is at risk and that's the risk of Islamic Terrorism.
I hope people wake up before it's too late.
Posted by Winston on August 29, 2006 | Permalink
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Comments
Saying we're fighting a war on terror is like saying we fought the war against blitzkreig.
Both describe tacticical methods.
The real criminals are the imams who cannot understand the reality that the seventh century happened 1400 years ago ... and that it's about time to stop playing make-believe they are the natural successors to Muhammad.
It's a crime of ignorance, a crime of hatred.
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-08-30 12:29:01 AM
The West, having cut itself off from its own spiritual heritage and traded it for crass, relativistic materialism, is in an altogether weakened state spiritually, morally, intellectually, and even physically--note our high rates of obesity. The West is in state of denial, which seems much like what was happening in 1938. (Winston Churchill had sounded the alarm for some time and was very unpopular because of it. Of course, in the end, he was proven right.)
During WW II, there was still enough figurative $ in the "moral capital bank", bequeathed to us through the Judeo-Christian culture, which also gave us Magna Carta (rule of law), etc., that, when people finally realized the truth--such a concept was still in vogue--they willingly fought "for King and country" to defeat an evil and deadly foe. The cry today from far too many in our entiltled populace is much more likely to be "Hell no, we won't go!"
The West is seriously deluded because it pursues utopian fantasy over truth. (In fact, post-modernism--a pox on it--denies that there is such a thing as truth.) We in the materially prosperous West are spiritual paupers, so busy "entertaining ourselves to death" that we refuse to face up to the hard choices we need to make because we realize that they will exact serious sacrifice and hardship. The only problem is: NOT facing up to the hard choices we need to make will result in FAR GREATER sacrifice and hardship. (Like little kids, we wish to avoid the dentist because it hurts: of course, the longer we postpone going to the dentist, the more it hurts.) Realists and grownups--imperfect as they are--understand the necessity of sacrifice and privation. Collectively, the West seems to be in complete denial about this.
Like it or not, the war has already been joined--by the enemy. We're going to fight this war over there or on a street near you. Here. In Canada. I'm not making this up.
Churchill, Britain's great wartime leader cautioned another generation of appeasement-bent pacifists: "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
I think we're at about this stage: "[Y]ou may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival." But, with deference to Churchill, there's a case worse than his worst. That is, refusing to fight and becoming slaves, because that's surely what will happen to the West if we sit, like so many ducks in a row, waiting to be mowed down or enslaved. Then death or dhimmitude will, ironically, be our fate--a fate we were too darn busy "being entitled to our entiltements" to fight. That's much worse than Churchill's worst case scenario because his shows courage and bravery. My worst case scenario--true, I believe, for the demoralized West in 2006--shows cowardice and appeasement. If that's all we have to offer, we'll deserve what we get.
PMSH is one of the grownups. Let's pray that Canadians wake up from their "Sleeping Ugly" stupor and support him in our participation in the coalition of the willing. If we don't, see above.
Posted by: lookout | 2006-08-30 7:05:46 AM
lookout - well articulated
Posted by: Frico | 2006-08-30 7:35:50 AM
Frico, thanks. It's nice to know the wilderness is inhabited by a few fellow travellers!
Posted by: lookout | 2006-08-30 7:40:11 AM
Lookout,
You have indeed summed it all up nicely. What you said here has been said in part or in whole many times and on many other blogs, radio and even occasionally on TV ... Usually on the Fox Network of course. ... That doesn't diminish your message, but how many times will it need to be said before anyone wakes up?
Most of what you state here has been brought about by the policies and philosophies of the left. They are also the group most often identified as self-loathers and enemies of freedom and haters of western culture. I think those attributes apply.
I am from the other side of things and identify myself as having great dislike for the West, but for the exact opposite reasons. I hate what the west has become as you describe it in your piece.
Reasons such as denial of reality, entertainment to the grave, avoidance of discomfort, obesity, lack of spiritual commitment.
One might call us the New West where the Left has redefined us as a bunch of whiny losers waiting to be taken over by a more voracious enemy.
If we happen survive and even win out, it will only be after we have beaten down the forces of political correctness and the socialist collectivist sheep-like mentality that now pervades our once tougher, smarter and more self-reliant society.
Those gun-totting, god-fearing, redneck country music and NAASCAR fans may be our best hope. You know, the ones the left refers to as neanderthal.
The ones who still join the marines.
Posted by: Duke | 2006-08-30 8:50:07 AM
Terrorists are criminals. That doesn't mean that the crime of terrorism is a police matter.
Terrorism is a military tactic and is today recognized as a war crime. We are at war with civilians who are acting as proxies for foreign governments in some instances but not all instances.
The enemy is not Saudi Arabia, or Iran, Yemen or the deposed Taliban. It is Islam. Islam is the enemy in all instances. That we appear to have Muslims as allies in some instances is merely the practice of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' on the part of those Muslims. They are helping us cut their competition.
We need to be on a war footing, at least politically.
Because of the 'peace keeping' concept and our use of troops to support it in the past, Canadians cannot distinguish between an actual war and the deployment of our troops on a peace keeping mission.
Because the War Measures Act has not been invoked, many Canadians do not realize we are at war.
This prevents terrorists from being treated as saboteurs in a wartime scenario. The confusion is brought about by our polititian's refusal to name the true enemy.
We can never win this war until the enemy we are fighting is named and war is declared against that enemy.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-08-30 9:36:24 AM
Good post lookout!
I recently read for the first time "The Man Called Intrepid" by William Stevenson. This book details intelligence operations before and during WWII. I was struck by how similar the political atmosphere described in the book is like it is today. It was basically a struggle between pacifists and "war mongers".
Even thought the book was published in the 1970s, used copies can be found. I highly recommend reading it (if you haven't already).
Posted by: gm | 2006-08-30 10:31:46 AM
Extremely well put lookout and speller is on the mark except I do not consider terrorists criminals. Considering them criminals is one of our serious weaknesses in this war, yet that is where they fall at present. The reason is that no country of the free world has been willing to recognize the fact that we are officially at war. We can pretend all we want that it is not the case, but it does no good (other than to serve the enemy of course) to do so when the enemy (Islamists) have openly declared war on us.
So because of this captured jihadists are considered only criminals, granted all the rights of citizens of the target country, tried in criminal courts, etc. We do this while our enemy makes a public display of the torture and killing of any Muslim suspected of "collaborating" with the infidel enemy. In most of these cases it is simply a Muslim, a moderate, who dares to question the Islamist ideology. Of course I am not saying we should behave the same, but captured enemies should come under martial law, not criminal law. We cannot do this, as long as the free world refuses to call a spade a spade.
Posted by: Alain | 2006-08-30 10:33:03 AM
Great comments here folks and as usual Winston, you are correct.....now all we are waiting for are our resident useful idiots and trolls to comment how Winston is a bigot and islamophobe ad nauseum!!!!
Posted by: Albertanator | 2006-08-30 11:29:31 AM
Was unreformed Christianity just as bad? Is a reformed Islam all that we need? I think it almost reformed itself, but then fell back under the influence of the fundamentalists.
Can Islam be enlightened like Christianity was enlightened?
John M Reynolds
Posted by: jmrSudbury | 2006-08-30 12:01:29 PM
Osama bin Laden IS a reformer, John. As long as there is a Koran there will always be reformers like bin Laden. Mohammed would have recognized Crazy Sammy as one of his own.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-08-30 12:28:01 PM
jmr:
Christianity, right from its formative days, was against violent solutions ... and it spoke of two realms, the kindgom of the world and the kingdom of heaven.
At the time, even some within his inner circle, believed Christ was there to help with the violent overthrow of the Roman empire. Yet, He made it perfectly clear his intent was not to consolidate earthly power.
The reformation was about rebalancing those two realms as the Roman brand of Christianity became more and more involved with affairs of the world and maintaing power and wealth on earth.
At one time, the Roman church owned one-third of the real estate in Europe and was extremely rich.
Islam, from its formative days, was a blueprint for worldly imperialism and placed its value on forcing others to submit to its will.
It does not have the same type of discipline ... or tradition of its leadership meeting to hash out the issues ... although it would come as no surprise if plenty of has was used.
Today's terror cells pop up randomly because more value is placed on leadership skills, such as charisma and ability to convince.
That sprang from a practical reason as tribes were often isolated and the will to meet to sort out the issues once and for all was never there.
The only way the ‘religion' can be reformed is if all the imams in the world got together and say ‘this is what all of us stand for,' in much the same way as the Ecumenical Councils of the early Christian church did.
That way, it could determine once and for all exactly what it stands for.
Right now, that seems impossible since there is a long history of sectarian violence over the most insignificant reasons.
Saw Bill Maher on the Larry King show the other night and he had a pretty interesting take on things in Iraq.
He said, now that the US has created a civil war, it should get out of Iraq and keep the two sides fbusy ight it out among themselves. Not such a bad idea.
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-08-30 12:42:04 PM
Well said Look out, Speller, gm and Duke. We are at war and every citizen in this country will have to become a soldier because our ememy has infiltrated into our midst. We cannot afford to ignore 'suspicious' behavior and we must prepare ourselves to fight for our freedom because if we don't the enemy will steal our freedom through subterfuge. Like Lookout says the war is here, in Canada, in our cities, and NO it is not make believe.
The Prime Minister of Canada just announced that he is recruiting more RCMP and allotting $$ to do that. Heaving a bit sigh of relief that FINALLY we have an adult as the Commander and Chief in this country.
BTW the man named Intrepid was a Canadian. He died in the Barbados a few years ago; never honored by his own country. PM M.King was a Liberano!
Posted by: jema54j | 2006-08-30 2:50:34 PM
Bill Maher is part of the problem here in America. His socalled comedic look at the worlds problem makes people here question the seriousness of the war on terror. The US did not start a civil war in Iraq. After Saddam's reign of terror on the Shiites they felt they had some payback to dishout. He murdered these people by the thousands, and until Saddam is dead and they see that there is no chance he will come back the Shiites are afraid. Remember Saddam's favorite movie, Blackhawk Down. They thought if the US spilled a littlt blood they would run away like in Somalia,
Many in Iraq are not convinced that Saddam is over. That is why the Sunni fight now, they hope to get us out and somehow put him back in power.
If you were an Iraqi and saw all the media hype against G Dubbya and against the war you would have hope to. We even have our own Senators talking impeachment of the Pres. for lying about the facts that lead to war "WMD". We pray that the Dems do not win either house or the subpeona's will start flying.
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-30 3:24:08 PM
I know how they feel, Sal. Sometimes at night I wake up in a cold sweat until I remember Chretien is dead....oh, wait.
Was he a criminal or a terrorist?
No, wait, he's a lawyer and a partner in a firm in Calgary.
With no one emerging as a viable candidate for Liberal party leadership the terror just keeps coming back.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-08-30 3:37:11 PM
Please do not think like Bill Clinton. When he was given Osama three times he passed due to the fact he saw it as a criminal act and would not go after Osama due to lack of evidence.
Terrorist acts perpetrated by the likes of Osama need to be dealt with by the world. It wasn't just Americans who died on 9/11.
Keep banging awat WS I am passing along this wonderful sight to all I can in Chicago, we have a small Conservative following here, the Libs rule big time here. But I know eventually good wins over evil and I have more hope due to the stuff I read here. Kudos to all who threw away their Kool-aid in Canada. You have given me more strenght to fight on. I was going to move to Mexico, atleast there I know what I'm in for, it is so easy to bribe your way through that country. You can live like a king with very little money. Vacations in Cancun are great. Plus not many hispanics there. They all moved into my neighborhood. Thank God I'm Latino I blend in.
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-30 3:57:16 PM
Duke and Speller, thanks (to others too) and I appreciate your comments--and AGREE.
Sal, we hear a lot about the US up here, so are pretty clear on at least some of your politics. E.g., Your Democrats and our Liberals, NDP, Bloc, and Green Parties are essentially junk parties. If they regain power, I think I'll start a burqa collection for my daughters and me: wish I were just kidding.
Speaking of parties, most of us here at the Shotgun Blog are Dubbya supporters, which we're careful to keep under wraps in certain quarters if we ever wish to be invited to our lefty friends'--they're everywhere, they're everywhere!--parties. Really, some of my friendships have been seriously compromised by the present situation. ALL my lefty friends know where I stand, but if I care to keep the friendship--and usually I do--I have to steer very clear of talking straight: The last thing lefties want to do is call a spade a spade. Sad. And dangerous too.
I haven't read The Man Called Intrepid. (I was hoping my husband owned it--he doesn't.) Thanks for the tip, gm.
Like jema54, I'm altogether grateful for our very fine PM. I don't know what I'll do if the CPC doesn't win the next election. Maybe I'll have to "go out to Alberta--weather's good there in the fall"!!
Posted by: lookout | 2006-08-30 5:05:32 PM
Come to Alberta, lookout, there are jobs aplenty waiting for you. You too Sal come and work in Alberta.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-08-30 5:14:24 PM
Now that I see hope in Canada it may be my best move. It is a beautiful place, I traveled to Canada twice when I lived in the LIberal mecca that is Seattle. And thought I found my new home. But I was married to a screaming liberal tree hugging nut. But thanks to WS I am slowly proving to my liberal friends that Dubbya is not trying to scare the world. We really do have a problem in the West. I ask them if they are willing to denounce God as their Savior. They laugh and say it will never happen in America, they think in 2006 the Republicans will loose the house and the in 08 Hillary will win the white house. I throw up everytime I think of it.
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-30 5:34:26 PM
Sal, you've ruined my evening: Hillary as President? YIKES!!! Bless you.
Posted by: lookout | 2006-08-30 5:45:54 PM
It's the only reason i feel for Bill, when Hillary and Bill did the dancing on the beach photoshoot she was in a swimsuit. Need I say more.
But the serious thing to consider is Bill wanting to be UN Pres.
Let's hope that the Republicans can come up with someone that can beat her "Condi" she really is a better choice than Hillary. She just doesn't get the credit she shouls because Bush picked her.
If a dem Pres. picked her they would have her on a pedestal
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-30 6:19:07 PM
sal:
Been away for a while.
Yeah, I know exactly where Bill Maher stands. I used to watch Politically Incorrect every night and it seemed pretty reasonable.
Then 9/11 happened and I guess that's when all assumptions went out the window.
If Hillary gets in, Alberta is the place to be. If you have any type of trade, a six-figure income is pretty do-able.
Besides, the Blackhawks suck and my beloved Oilers are hot right now.
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-08-30 6:22:12 PM
Ouch! I haven't worn my jersey in two years in disgust for the management. At least the Sox are starting to look like they got their heads out their ass and might make the wildcard. And I still have hope for da Dears
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-30 6:30:03 PM
da Bears are an aquired taste ... all defence and mediocre offence.
Since Ditka left ...
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-08-30 6:31:58 PM
We almost had Ditka for Senator, now that would of made C-Span worth watching
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-30 6:44:26 PM
(Where's Vitruvius? Anyway, I don't know what you guys are talking about!)
Posted by: lookout | 2006-08-30 6:44:54 PM
53° 35' N - 113° 30' W
Posted by: Vitruvius | 2006-08-30 7:07:38 PM
Sal, you were in construction right? Come to Alberta, brother, you will be welcomed with open arms.
The government here says there will be a labour shortage for twenty years. Everywhere there are help wanted signs. The liquor stores, which are privately owned here, pay up front for next day delivery and are going short for lack of workers in the wholesale warehouses.
There is a housing shortage, and office space shortage, the is a minimum wage of around $7.00/hr and NOBODY can be found who will work for less than TEN. They are places in this province where the have had to shut down the fast food places because they can't get anyone to work there for the low wages. There are literally kids working in a lot of places you walk into. The only businesses that aren't crying for help are family owned.
Alberta is notorious for being anti-union. If you come here you write your own ticket.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-08-30 7:12:01 PM
It never fails.
I hear something like this & I immediately think about the movie "The Time Machine" (1960, Rod Taylor) where the gentle Eloi sit around eating fruit and granola, waiting for the Morlocks, ( you know, the ones that live in caves) to pick them off. Hey, how prophetic is that? The only real flaw is that this isn't suppose to happen until the year 800,000. Still, perhaps H.G. Wells hasn't been given the credit he deserves.
and Sal;
my X wasn't a tree hugger, but the nut & the screaming part I understand - my sympathies.
Posted by: Democrat | 2006-08-30 7:17:45 PM
Duke;
"Those gun-totting, god-fearing, redneck country music and NASCAR fans may be our best hope. You know, the ones the left refers to as neanderthal.
The ones who still join the marines."
That sounds pretty cut & dry ...
I never was in the Marines - they wouldn't take me because of a pre-existing medical condition; neither would the Army, nor the Navy, nor the Coast Guard. I know because I applied to them all & it wasn't during peace time, it was during the Viet Nam War.
Own guns, fear God, played in over twenty country bands, one for a year & a half with three police officers. Played in a country band in Alabama with a cousin of mine who used to say, "Everybody's a redneck once their head's blowed off."
So what does that make me? (LOL)
gotta admit though, I never was into NASCAR.
Posted by: Democrat | 2006-08-31 3:26:49 AM
Sal, don't know about Bill Clinton's chances of becoming UN Pres, was thinking maybe Chretien or Paulie Martin may have their sights set on it too. Not much hope for the disUnited Nations as it now stands anyway. It's lost all credibility and is plainly corrupt and impotent, Bill may give it a boost.
Posted by: Liz J | 2006-08-31 7:13:00 AM
Liz J,
They pretty much select these UN General Secretarys(now doesn't that have a Bolshevik ring to it?) on the basis of race these days.
The next one is bound to be an Asian, either Arab type or Oriental.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-08-31 8:43:32 AM
Either way I feel they will never be for the West due to the fact that most of the votes that count in the UN are from depots and tyrannts who are part of the problem. When countries who are actually some of the worst civil liberty offenders are allowed to be on the councils.
Of all the resolutions put against countries like Iraq and Iran that were not implemented yet where is Koffi and his mighty UN.
Posted by: Sal | 2006-08-31 11:30:17 AM
In my opinion, it is always the aggressors who are the criminals.
What would St. Peter ask at the Pearly Gates?
Who were the aggressors? The answer to that will tell him who the criminal were.
In that respect, The Bush Admininstration may not ever answer to Earthy authority but they will answer for their aggressions.
9/11 did not happen out of the blue. There has been a 50 year history of Intervention in everybody in the world's business.
Blowback is an appropriate term for 9/11.
The Big Lie; the notion that Muslims are somehow going to take over the world.
Gee, they had to use American Jets in the only attack mounted in five years.
We know the weapons of mass destruction lies by heart now.
If the Americans had announced that a 25,000 man army was going to pursue Osama bin Laden to the ends of the Earth they would have enjoyed world wide support.
Starting a war in Iraq was a mistake and displacing Mullah Omar was a mistake.
I'm a great fan of Ludwig von Mises. In existential matters the listener can never be sure what the speaker is saying. There will never be a meeting of minds on theocratic issues.
The key is to convince them all that no matter what faith they may be, we are all better off dividing the labors at hand and prospering from each others skills than we are to be endlessly at each others throats.
Canada should lead by example.
We in fact do exactly that. We trade amongst each other regardless of race, creed or color and amazingly enough, everybody gets along just fine for the most part.
So, in my humble opinion, Canada should live up to our present commitments, declare victory and bring the boys back home.
Someone said the notions was Plato's but I recall it as the wisdom of Gene Roddenberry.
The Enterprize enters orbit of a new world to be immediatly warned that they were entering a war zone. Kirk reassures the planet leader that the Enterprize is perfectly capable of self-defence and that they percieve no threats.
Upon beaming down Kirk and crew are arrested and told they have been declared war casulities. The were hit by a computer attack in a 200 year old war that was being fought between two rival planets.
Turns out the planet leaders daughter and Kirks love interest for the episode is declared a casuality too.
Spock saves the day by blowing up a disintegrator that the servile are just stepping into and getting disintegrated.
Eventually Kirk blows up the computer and gives a beautiful speach about how ugly a real war is about to become and perhaps the option of peace had best be pursued.
Great stuff. Interplanetary peace is achieved.
The moral of the story.
Maybe if everybody just kept their noses out of the mid-east, those peole there would solve their own problems. And if it takes a total war to settle their differences once and for all so be it.
Reasonable minds are likely to prevail when the alternative is considered.
The best we can do is lead by example.
Send our diplomats sure. But our soldiers?
That is aggression so I have to be against it.
Posted by: Chris Buors | 2006-08-31 11:15:59 PM
Chris must be from another planet for he appears not to have read or heard of the goals and objectives stated time and time again by the Islamists themselves. Furthermore the agression (attacks against innocent civilians) started long before there was any Bush in the White House.
So if you are all for rolling over and dying to appease the Islamists, feel free but do not think the rest of us are willing to go along with you.
Posted by: Alain | 2006-09-01 12:59:27 AM
I nominate Chris Buors as envoy to Iran.
He obviously would be able to talk some sense into their president while circling Uranus looking for Klingons.
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-09-01 1:30:58 AM
To Chris
It is easy for you to look the other way while the Islamworld abuses it citizens. But for the rest of the world we will take care of it for you, I remember many Star Trek episodes where the Enterprise came to the aid of the the weak and oppressed.
If you have not had the opportunity of seeing the videos of women being shot or stoned due to the fact that they spoke out of turn, or simply were not wanted by the husband. These are brutal people who abuse civil liberties to no end. If you think it will work itself out on its own you need to read a real history book.
President Bush will have no reason to hang his head when he goes to see God, He did not start the conflict he is only reacting to an attack on us.
Posted by: sAL | 2006-09-01 8:58:51 AM
Chris is simply a symptom of a sickness that permeates the west and has been fostered by the academic left. The disturbing thing is there are many people like this, and who truly think like this.
Totally devoid of the facts and even of the ability to seek out the truth. They totally ignore the facts, a few of which Sal has so ably pointed out.
When you start quoting Star Trek or any other TV show in debating real life foreign policy it simply shows the fantasy world these people have created and live in.
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-09-01 11:28:33 AM
Chris is nothing but a ill educated dhimmi fool who knows nothing about the nature of evil much less the nature of islam........
Just another dhimmi idiot waiting to have his throat slit by Islamic terrorists!!
Posted by: Albertanator | 2006-09-01 11:43:54 AM
First of all, it was not so long ago that we had slavery here in the West. Women were not aloowed to vote and there are still a host of evils going on first and foremost how we treat the Natives.
Plato and Gene Roddenberry were not exactly fools. We are still learning from them today.
The mid-east has been mired in conflict for at least 2000 years.
Our ancestors fled religious persecutions and that is why Canada, in theory, has a separate state and church apparatus.
So far as I know, the people of the mid-east all want to live in a theocracy. I sincerly wish them all good luck.
What I am sure about is that they don't want to come here.
The Russians were never comming either.
So, we were left to our own devices to settle womens rights issues and every thing else.
Why not let the people of the mid-east settle their own women rights issues in their own good time? Ideas are stronger than bullets.
The people of the mid-east live on planet Earth. They are aware of how others live and can decide for themselves what they like and don't like.
And I don't see where minding our own business means rolling over and dying. The idea is to protect Canada with our soldiers.
Afghanistan did not attack or even threaten Canada in any way.
Mullah Omar refused to hand over Osama Bin Laden and the Americans thereafter invaded Afghanistan. Mullah Omar and the Taliban took to the hills. Now we chase them in circles, just like the Russians did.
If America had an notion at all that Mullah Omar knew about 9/11 in advance, they would not have been so polite about asking for Osama first.
So who are the aggressors as far as Canada is concerned?
We have taken the sword to them on the pretext of circumventing some catastastophy that some radicals in the Muslim's midst claim they would love to inflict.
I think that Canada has about all it can handle with the Christian radicals in our midst who would dearly love to battle the Muslims to the bitter end over there.
What stops these armchair warriors from forming an association and going over there to do their own bidding is beyond me.
But sending Canadian soldiers to do their bidding for them? How immoral can you get?
I'm a anarcho-capitalist by political definition. I admire the works of Mises and Rothbard. I read a lot at the lewrockwell.com site.
That hardly makes me a left winger.
Posted by: Chris Buors | 2006-09-01 12:03:21 PM
Actually Chris, if you believe half of what you wrote above, your just a plain idiot. Nuff said.
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-09-01 12:09:36 PM
Plato and Gene Roddenberry.
Moral equivalence at its finest.
Hey, how bout Albert Einstein and Michael Moore?
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-09-01 12:11:14 PM
by Chris Buors> "First of all, it was not so long ago that we had slavery here in the West. Women were not aloowed to vote and there are still a host of evils going on first and foremost how we treat the Natives."
I never had any slaves but plenty of Muslims still do. One of the big problems in Darfur is that the Chirstians there are being enslaved. Many free men in the west didb't get the vote until the conclusion of WWI in 1919. Only Landlords could vote before. Women got the vote in 1922. The problems the Indians have are entirely of their own making.
by Chris Buors>"Plato and Gene Roddenberry were not exactly fools. We are still learning from them today."
Plato and Gene roddenberry have little in common, that you lunp them toghether as philosophers says a lot about how much of a fool you are.
by Chris Buors>"The mid-east has been mired in conflict for at least 2000 years."
Any student of history can tell you that the middle east has NEVER been out of conflict. You are no student of histroy.
by Chris Buors>"Our ancestors fled religious persecutions and that is why Canada, in theory, has a separate state and church apparatus."
Canada was first a French trading outpost and later a British colony, you are mistaking it for the history of the American colonies. The BNA Act on which our country is based does not create a separation between church and state, which is another American concept. One of the Queens titles is 'Protector of the Faith'. God Save the Queen.
by Chris Buors>"So far as I know, the people of the mid-east all want to live in a theocracy. I sincerly wish them all good luck."
Only the Mohammedans want to live in a theocracy. The Christians, Jews, Atheists, and theoretical 'moderate Muslims' if they exist, DO NOT.
by Chris Buors>"What I am sure about is that they don't want to come here."
Right, sure, all those Muslim immigrants, including the Kahdrs, Toronto 19 conspirators, Ahmed Ressam, etc are just figments of our collective imaginations.
by Chris Buors>"The Russians were never comming either."
The Russians are STILL coming.
by Chris Buors>"So, we were left to our own devices to settle womens rights issues and every thing else."
"Why not let the people of the mid-east settle their own women rights issues in their own good time? Ideas are stronger than bullets."
They don't want to settle their womens rights issues. Do you really think the Muslim Male wants some harridan to cut their testies off and drag them to family court, taking the house and children evertime they turn around? They get up to 4 female slaves apiece. They like it just fine the way things are.
It is important for you and the other 'pro-reformers' to note that TIME is NOT on OUR SIDE.
These people with a Dark Ages 7th century mentality are working feverishly to get NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Most Muslim nations already have plenty of Scud Missiles for launch platforms. Syria in particular have several hundred, most of which they purchased with the money President Bush senior gave them for helping in the Gulf War. When they get nukes they won't be using only civilian proxies to attack us.
by Chris Buors>"'The people of the mid-east live on planet Earth. They are aware of how others live and can decide for themselves what they like and don't like."
Yes, they live on planet earth. They also have an average IQ 2 1/2 standard deviations below ours and a 7th century mentality.
by Chris Buors>""And I don't see where minding our own business means rolling over and dying. The idea is to protect Canada with our soldiers."
Yours view is typical of the 9/10/2001 mentality.
Canadian Victims of the 9/11 Attack:
by Chris Buors>""Afghanistan did not attack or even threaten Canada in any way."
Filipov, Alexander
Gerhardt, Ralph
Lee, Stuart
Ludvigsen, Mark
Mascarenhas, Bernard
McArthur, Colin
Pelletier, Mike
Robson, Donald
Santos, Rufino
Tomasevic, Vladimir
Vincelli, Chantal
Williams, Debbie
These 18 men and 6 women, aged 29 to 70, were born in cities and towns from all across Canada. Most of them lived in New York and worked or were visiting in the World Trade Center. Two were passengers in the aircraft that hit the buildings.
by Chris Buors>"Mullah Omar refused to hand over Osama Bin Laden and the Americans thereafter invaded Afghanistan. Mullah Omar and the Taliban took to the hills. Now we chase them in circles, just like the Russians did."
Mullah Omar refused to hand over Osama Bin Laden because he was and is subordinate to Bin Laden. Bin Laden created the Taliban. We aren't chasing them in circles, we are running search and destroy missions against them every time they emerge from their safe haven in Pashtun northwest Pakistan.
by Chris Buors>"If America had an notion at all that Mullah Omar knew about 9/11 in advance, they would not have been so polite about asking for Osama first.
So who are the aggressors as far as Canada is concerned?"
America DEMANDED Bin Laden in an ULTIMATUM upon threat of WAR. If that is polite I suppose it's your own private interpretation of the word. The aggressors are anyone who takes the prophet Mohammed's idea of Islam literally.
by Chris Buors>"We have taken the sword to them on the pretext of circumventing some catastastophy that some radicals in the Muslim's midst claim they would love to inflict."
Islam is an extreme religion, if it is a religion at all. If there are so many peace loving Muslim 'moderates' why haven't they dealt with the 'radicals in their midst' by the 5th anniversary of the World Trade Center attack? I don't even see mass protests over there against these 'radicals' let alone them being 'dealt with'.
by Chris Buors>"I think that Canada has about all it can handle with the Christian radicals in our midst who would dearly love to battle the Muslims to the bitter end over there."
Riiiiight. Just because your knowledge of history is SO poor I'll let you in on a secret. The same Liberal Party of Canada who forced Same Sex Marriage down the throats of Christians in this country are the ones who sent troops to Afghanistan.
by Chris Buors>"What stops these armchair warriors from forming an association and going over there to do their own bidding is beyond me."
I guess you've never heard of the Gun Registry.
by Chris Buors>"But sending Canadian soldiers to do their bidding for them? How immoral can you get?"
I see that Zebulon Pike is right. You only think the Canadian Army is for shovelling snow in Toronto. Far be it from us to expect the Military to actually fight the wars.
by Chris Buors>"I'm a anarcho-capitalist by political definition. I admire the works of Mises and Rothbard. I read a lot at the lewrockwell.com site.
That hardly makes me a left winger."
You're nuttier than a Cuban Lunch.(chocolate bar)
Consider yourself FISKED you fatuous myopic.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-09-01 1:21:51 PM
Chris;
Did you take the time to read any of the posts here or do you just want to talk?
I know you didn't read any of them. Otherwise, you would have realized you were walking into a punch in the face! (LOL)
Posted by: Democrat | 2006-09-01 1:23:25 PM
I read the posts. I got broad shoulders.
I'm not afraid to use my real name and I answer my critics.
Now is when I come in with the hammer and ask these guys if they would like to measure the war on terror against the Just War Doctrine of the Catholic Church.
I'm willing to bet there are no takers.
And look what the arguements of the war mongers are; evasions and name calling. Nuff said. Ha ha. It's hard to believe these people think they can justify killing others with that kind of arguement and logic to back them up.
Not one of them answered the who was the aggressor question.
I find it hard to believe that there are actually this many people who believe bullets are stronger than ideas.
The Isreal's killed Canadians on the very first day they retaliated against Lebanon.
When should we send the Army in to change out the Israeli' government?
Or are those Canadian's lives lost in Lebanon not as valuable as the lives lost in the 9/11 attack that happened in America?
Shouldn't the policy be consistant?
Of course not because the Muslims can do no right and the Isrealis can do no wrong.
The only link I ever made between Plato and Roddenberry is the "total war" ideology both expounded. That does not mean I though they agreed on anything else at all and makes me wonder if anybody read the post or whether they just say red and typed right throught their anger.
The world did not change on 9/11/01. Terrorism as a tactic has been used many times in the past.
The Americans have been poking people in the eye with blunt sticks everywhere they went for 50 years. You can only go around doing that for so long until someone strikes you back.
We have been in Afghanistan now for longer than it took to defeat the Nazi's. It's going to be 5 years soon enough. How much longer do you figure the mission will take? If that is not chasing the Afghani's in circles, what is?
I remember Mullah Omar was prepared to hand bin Laden over to the World Court and was looking for evidence from America. There was no evidence of bin Laden's guilt when America invaded Afghanistan.
The history books are very clear about who the only country was that had leaders crazy enough to use mass murder and nuclear bombs as a tool of intimidation.
Islam is not the only religion that has "extreme" members.
They all do.
Using the Canadain Army for anything other than defending Canada is abusing the Army and those who signed on to serve.
Posted by: Chris Buors | 2006-09-01 8:25:18 PM
The aggressors are anyone who takes the prophet Mohammed's idea of Islam literally. I said that above at 1:21:57. You really don't read, or the alternative is that you need to take an Evelyn Wood Reading Comprehension Course.
I really don't give a fig what a murderous institution like the Vatican has to say about ANYTHING. Since pope JPII hugged Yasser Arafat and kissed the Koran the RCs are a joke. When did a pope EVER visit Ireland and tell the Catholics to stop murdering Protestants?
Hitler and all of his henchmen were RCs and the Vatican, in collusion with the International Red Cross, help thousands of SS murderers escape from liberated Europe after the Second World War.
Bullets ARE stronger than ideas. Just ask the Carthaginians. Of course if a government isn't willing to fight a Total War then you aren't really using those bullets to their full effect.
The Israelis have a right to self defense and Lebanon, despite having invaded Israel three times, has never signed an instrument of peace with Israel. Lebanon, like the other Arab countries, is using terrorist proxies to attack Israel. Consequences, consequences.
The Israelis killed Lebanese who just happened to have Canadian passports. No big deal. It doesn't matter to me that they were carrying 'Club Canada Cards'.
We have been in Afghanistan for 4 years, it took six years to defeat the Nazis and those were six years of Total War, not war fought with one arm tied behind our backs. Until we invade Pakistan, which the Mujahadeen use as a safe haven, or the Pakistani government grows some stones and deals with the Taliban's Mujahadeen the war will go on and on.
Every major nation in WWII used carpet bombing, that is how most of the civilians were killed other than the Nazi death squads. That the U.S.Army Air Corp dropped two little nukes on Japan is no big deal. More civilians were incinerated in the RAF fire bombings of Dresden and Nurmberg that the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Of course Hitler started the carpet bombings during the Battle of Britain.
Only democracies make a distinction between weapons of mass destruction and conventional weapons in their Tactical War Manuals. That is because of Soviet propaganda and it's effects on the leftist voting masses in those democracies.
People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki today and have never stopped living there.
The Jihad has been going on for 1400+ years, this is just a new phase of it. It was a significant escalation for the Mujahadeen to attack us in our own countries on 9/11. That woke many in our countries up to the ever present threat of Jihad.
The Americans didn't provide proof of Osama bin Laden's hand in the attack because then the intelligence sources who provide that proof would have been killed. Bin Laden himself latter provided incontrovertible proof of al-Qa'eda's guilt.
Mullah Omar and Osama bimbo Laden are close pals. Mullah Omar allowed al-Qa'eda training camps to operate in Afghanistan. If you think Mullah Omar didn't know bin Laden attacked the World Trade Center and was being facetious when asking for proof from the Americans you are on the enemies side.
If the troops of the Canadian Forces have been feeling abused they don't have to re-up. We don't have a conscript army, yet. I haven't read reports of our troops strength dropping due to non-reenlistment so you are wrong about them being abused.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-09-02 11:01:03 AM
Chris, Islam may not have the only members that are extreme, but it is the only religion that is founded by a murdering looting raping extremist....
Nice try at moral equivelance....got anything else in your bag of stupidity!
Posted by: Albertanator | 2006-09-02 6:23:00 PM
Chris Buors has repeatedly stated he believes in " Payback " , 911 was " Payback " .
Therefore he believes Hiroshima was " Payback " , unless he a complete lunatic . How could he not justify it as " Payback " after what Japan did to other Nations for the previous 1/2 century ?
Millions of Japanese willingly gave thier lives to support Japanese Genocidal Militarism but virtually none of them risked thier lives to fight against the Japanese Regime . PAYBACK .
Sadly many of his fellow PotHeads think the same way .
Posted by: SalTalun | 2006-11-14 8:43:49 PM
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