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Tuesday, July 25, 2006
“Canadians” to tough it out in Lebanon
I’ve seen estimates of Canadians in Lebanon that
were as high as 50,000. The media has been portraying a mass scramble
of desperation as they try to get out, so what the hell is this:
Fewer than one quarter of the Canadians registered with
their embassy in Lebanon have taken up the government’s offer to get
them out of the war-torn country, as officials say dwindling numbers
mean the evacuation is winding down.
By late yesterday afternoon, after five days of exodus, slightly
more than 7,900 people had boarded ships chartered by Canada to take
them to safety. Only 2,800 of that number had actually reached Canadian
soil, leaving thousands of evacuees in transit on ships headed for
Turkey or Cyprus, on the ground there, or on airplanes headed to
Canada.( Globe and Mail h/t Dissonance and Disrespect) )
The majority are choosing to stay there. (c/p)
Posted by Darcey on July 25, 2006 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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i heard the number as high as 60,000 on national canadian left wing tv
so what gives?
was that number a another lie like israel attacking the ship of refugees?
or are most of those "canadian/palestinian/lebanese" actually in canada all along but claiming they are in lebanon to avoid paying taxes and working under the table in canada?
Posted by: woodbridge | 2006-07-25 8:30:13 AM
The numbers are outrageous.Looks like Lebanon is the Canada of the middle east.It's difficult to understand such love of one's ancestral country and still leave it to "adopt" another country for security and other conveniences.One would expect those who have such strong ties to thir country of birth would be patriotic enough to stay there and fight the good fight to keep that country strong. It looks very much like Canada is one "chosen" country being sucked into the fight in the middle east by proxy. The ingratitude expressed by too many of those rescued by our country, Canada, is very telling where their allegiances lie. They are free to go back, godspeed.
Posted by: Liz J | 2006-07-25 1:29:41 PM
And a BIG, "I TOLD YOU SO" to all the low-watt freaks who put those of us down who said only Canadian business and tourist evacuees with single citizenship should be removed from Lebanon.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-07-25 1:38:25 PM
woodbridge wrote: i heard the number as high as 60,000 on national canadian left wing tv
That was 60,000 total foreign nationals had left Lebanon. What network is "national canadian left wing tv"?
woodbridge also wrote: was that number a another lie like israel attacking the ship of refugees?
Could you post the url for that story. Of course Israel would never attack an unarmed ship from a friendly country in international waters. Ever hear of the USS Liberty?
Posted by: No Spin Zone | 2006-07-25 4:11:27 PM
Well this is a big surprise.
People who choose divided loyalty, who choose to live, make a home and raise family in their true homeland, not pay taxes, not contribute, not volunteer for the Canadian Armed Forces
now need Canadian tax funds, to lift them out of the mess they chose to live in and the natural consequences of the actions of the messy little country they love so much.
And choice is involved here.
LOOK at the facts.
Hezbollah is a Lebanese Muslim terrorist organization that lobs bombs indiscriminately into Israel
and when Israel chooses to defend themselves Hezbollah and the Muslim world cry foul.
No fair they cry out. Israel should sit there and die! In fact Israel shouldn't exist at all. Never mind Israel has a real economy, and a democracy and is an economic powerhouse in a region that is otherwise a typical Muslim wreck.
Why would sensible Canadians choose to live there and raise families, and pay taxes there?
I do know a missionary couple who do live in Lebanon, and just for the record, they are staying there, with the rest of the country, not taking advantage to cut and run when the going gets tough. They made a decision and are sticking with it.
Let's contrast them for a brief moment with the muslim woman (wearing a scarf, heavy Arabic accent) on the news who screamed defiantly that as soon as she could, she would be back, and meanwhile she would raise her kids to hate Israel.
So essentially we are removing muslim cowards who support the Hezbollah, but haven't the guts to face the consequences of that support when Israel defends themselves.
AND we are assisting those men, women and children to raise the next generation of terrorists.
They cut and run, and hide behind their dual citizen passports forcing real Canadians to pay for their expensive exit and defense.
definitions of "Real Canadian"? (you know, the ones who PAY taxes, and who don't advocate terror or divide their loyalties! The ones who actually live here most of the time. They may visit other countries, but they don't live in them full time forever, creating jobs, businesses and a life outside Canada!)
Posted by: canadian freedoms fan | 2006-07-25 5:58:51 PM
Once again the western standard posters, Kevin Jeager or whomever the idiot this time is, demonstrate there complete stupidity. For Christs sake, first they kill Canadian citizens, now they kill Canadian U.N members and instead you critisize Kofi Anan, hahahaha, what a joke this site is! Just like the Israelis attacked Gaza diproportionately after ONE of their soldiers was kidnapped, I hope China retaliates as well (since one of their citizens was killed/not kidnapped) and hopefully flatten this terrorist state of Israel.
Ps. canadian freedom fan--I am a true Canadian, not a welfare collecting, unemployment insurance, disability, chain smoking, immigrant fearing drain on the system like yourself, I bet you never even graduated from highschool you moron. By the way moron--where do I sign up for the Klu Klux Klan, go back to Alabama, theres no room for hate mongers like you in canadian cities--oh thats right you've never been outside of Hinton, sorry.
Posted by: BillyBobthornton | 2006-07-26 6:15:42 AM
The truth really stinks.
Yup Kofi Anan really needs to be fired, thats for sure.
Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea
UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israel 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four UN personnel, sources familiar with a UN report say.
The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling nearby, diplomats familiar with the initial probe into the deaths say.
The news comes during crisis talks in Rome seeking to end the fighting between Hezbollah and Israel.
The UN secretary general has called for a ceasefire, as fighting continues.
Posted by: Superman | 2006-07-26 6:59:21 AM
Even thought of coming up with an original post? That was posted in another topic already by somebody with a different name. Plus, your post has no sources cited but makes a pretty big claim.
A report claims that the UN passed a resolution ordering the destruction of all terrorists organizations.
See how foolish you look if you don't cite. You need to cite. I'm in university right now and if I were to write a scientific paper claiming that man landed on mars and found a colony of sharks with lasers and didn't cite a source they'd laugh at me. Heck, even if you state a legitimate fact and don't cite you'll get laughed at.
Posted by: Andrew | 2006-07-26 7:25:28 AM
Andrew your in univeristy, thats good. What you need to do is take a middle eastern history class and learn about the barbaric crimes, numerous and often, commited in the name of Isreali security against the palestinian peoples (and NO I am not defending suicide bombing which is also wrong, but a desperate act commited by desperate people). The latest foolhardy actions by Olmert are doing nothing but advertising to the world, what has been going on for years (over-reaction). Collective punishment is a war crime under the geneva convention. Anyways, check any news network today and you will see that what I posted is one hundred percent hard cold fact not fiction.
Posted by: Superman | 2006-07-26 8:26:53 AM
Sorry, I don't have time to take history courses. I'd love to have the lazy lifestyle of an arts student but I'm a biochem majors and don't have time for that stuff. I have more important things to do.
Actually, if a militant group hides among civilians and is bombed by a nations the militant group is held responsible under the Geneva convention. So, Hizballah is actually responsible for the hundreds of dead Lebanese; not Israel.
Also, where does the UN get its facts? They can come out and say anything they want but it doesn't make it true. They are simply trying to cover the fact that they suppport Hizballah and that the UN "observers" were killed because they were hunkering down with Hizballah.
Posted by: Andrew | 2006-07-26 8:42:50 AM
Good! that you don't have time to take university history courses because you are studying sciences. But you will need to drink deep of good Conservative scholarship regarding social sciences on your own (don't waste your time with the indoctrination chamber of a leftist college "history" classroom, even if you think it will be a supposedly "fun" battle of wits, you're actually swimming in a sewer).
Get hold of Thomas Sowell's books on economics and history - a very fine man.
I disagree with you in many ways on fundamental issues, but at your age I was probably in jail. With good will and time we can learn True things.
Posted by: Conrad-USA | 2006-07-26 9:20:39 AM
Duperman and billybob,
You both belong in the KKK. Since you are both internet savy, you know where to look for membership application.
And since you both know where the USA is on the world map (stand, face the morning sun, and point with out stretched right arm perpendicular to your body), but you know nothing about Alabama, China, USA, and you know nothing about right from wrong.
For example: Israel tore down houses.
Any nation on the planet can tear down houses.
But, the houses that were torn down, belonged to whom?
Why would it matter?
Because, if they are Muslim, you are going to cry fowl, but if they are Jewish homes, you are going to say that that is OK. If the houses belonged to Muslim terrorists and sympathizers, you are going to cry fowl, but if they belonged to Israeli Jewish citizens, you are going to say that is OK, or nothing at all.
Fact remains, in most civilized nations, when a person commits a crime, they can, and typically do loose their rights to their properties. Especially in particular when it can be proven, that those places were used for and built by the proceeds of crime.
Examples include, the vehicles imported and exported for the purpose of transporting illegal drugs and illegal weapons. It is common knowledge, that when an individual in Canada, takes a vehicle across the border, and transports drugs, that their car and all the contents, can be permanently seized.
Personally, I have no problem with that.
And pretty much every state on the planet, will at some time or other, clear houses, to make way for highways, airports, mining, and any other kind of business, of which the interests are of the whole, take precedent over the interests of the individual. Where no crime is known, the victims in such situations, if they actually own the land and property, may be compensated, at a price determined by the state.
And the houses that Israel tore down, were being used for conducting illegal terrorist business. So, in the same manner as those who conduct illegal drug trade, they have no valid claim against the state. But, if their story is told in amnner by which the state has no rights, then it is easy to fool people into believing that it is the state that is wrong, and the people wronged.
When fools back terrorists, it is clear that sympathies for those who engage in terrorist activities, means that individuals, such as duperman and his friend, can and do come to the conslusions that they intimately believe.
Fact remains, Israel has been defending herself against these terrorist despots, for decades and beyond. These despots have denied Israel's legitimate right to exist, and refuse to acknowledge the context under which decisions have been made. In the end, it is irrelevant that houses were torn down, or places bombed, but relevant that Israelis did what they had to do, in a particularily awful set of circumstances. Terrorists bombing and killing babies, children, men and women, and building those bombs, in the houses that Israel tore down.
Meanwhile, the terrorists are now using long range weapons of mass destruction, including cruise missiles. And what do we see? We see Israel, once again, having to defend herself to the best of her capability. While Israel is expected to make no mistakes, ever, in the carnage of war, the terrorists receive no such scrutiny. They constinue to fire cruise missiles, from civilian populations. reports have come through, that they are using apartment buildings, and even firing out of people's living rooms! And the terrorists are keeping families in the very next rooms, where the missiles are being fired from. These people have chosen to be martyrs. Their hate for Israel exceeds what is normal, where they and their children are loved less than they hate Israel herself.
And when you get your membership application filled out, and are accepted, you should be pleasantly surprised to note, that the salute for the oath os service, for membership to the KKK is the same as the salute for the oath of membership to the terrorists organizations you so pathetically support. And, I am referring to the raising of the right arm, to a 45 degree angle, in unisome! You will also be pleasantly pleased to note, that Hitler himself was very good friends with the founder of the Arab League, and Uncle to Yassir Arafat himself. The very structures that exist, the terror organizations, have followed the exact same pattern as the nazis! It is no accident, that the exact same targets of terrorists, are exactly the same as were Hitler's targets. The difference between now, and then, is that Jews are armed, and defending themselves! They are also defending their right to their own country, and to live in freedom, in the free world. And the terrorists, they are fighting against the free world, and using Israel, and historical biases against the Jewish people, to lever this holy war of theirs, into a confabulation of criminal proportions, not seen since the rise of nazi Germany!
In the end, the tragic loss of the UN workers, remains tragic. And when the facts are out in the open, Israel will take whatever actions are appropriate. If human error, then that will be what it is. If culpability by any one person, then that person will be punnished, as are all those who commit crimes against humanity, in Israel, punnished. The record speaks volumes to this fact. On the other hand, while terrorists aim to kill Jewish babies, children, men and women, the nations that would expect Israel to punnish her own for committing crimes against humanity, do nothing of the same against these terrorists. They house them, feed them, provide them refuge, and work to legitimize their existence! And you two, are no different from any of them.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-07-26 10:16:13 AM
Report from the Redemptorist Community in Zahle, Lebanon Rev. Elias Joseph Sader C.Ss.R.
July 20, 2006
Editor’s note: We received this communication from Father Elias on Wednesday afternoon. It has been edited for length and to facilitate informing you. The opinions expressed are those of Father Elias.
This is an attempt to share with you the situation in Lebanon at the moment and the situation of our Redemptorist mission in the Bekaa and in Beirut.
Today marks the seventh continuous day of Israeli bombings in Lebanon. According to the Ministry of Health, 240 Lebanese have been killed. 690 citizens have been injured, many of them permanently maimed. The Ministry of Defense reported that the bombs used in most regions are of a type internationally prohibited.
Displaced Lebanese people now number 500,000. They are particularly fleeing from the southern villages and the southern suburbs of Beirut. Refugees, numbering 60,000, are being sheltered in various public schools around Lebanon or in tents pitched in public parks. They are taken care of by the International Rescue Committee and the Red Cross, while others are finding shelter at monasteries, churches, or private charities.
Villages are under siege, the target of heavy bombing. Rescue teams are not able to help the injured or recover the dead. The bridges and roads leading to each village have been bombed with missiles creating craters 20 meters wide and 15 meters deep. The bulldozers trying to repair the craters are also being bombed.
Yesterday, every truck loaded with food or medical supplies was also a target of the bombing. So, many truck drivers are being killed for no reason and much needed supplies are going up in smoke. The Israelis claim that these trucks are carrying weapons from Syria to the Hezbollah. We disagree. Inside the city of Zahle, seven trucks were bombed. There was no concern that they were passing beside civilian homes, religious institutes, or cars filled with passengers. One of the trucks was bombed beside the "Sainte Famille" school administrated by Catholic nuns. A huge fire ensued. The truck was totally engulfed in flames along with all the donated medical supplies from the Arab Emirates. Seven people nearby the bombing and fire were injured and one of them died a few minutes later.
Truck drivers are refusing to drive. So refugees in the refugee centers are not receiving enough supplies. The Interior Security jeeps and the Red Cross vans are too small to transport the sufficient amount of supplies that large trucks are capable of carrying.
The bombing of factories has begun. The Israeli claim is that some of these factories are hiding weapons for the Hezbollah. But we know of one factory near us owned by a peace-loving Catholic that was bombed. Today five huge explosions shook the ground all over the city and a chicken farm was bombed. We deplore the destruction of innocent civilian enterprises needed to provide much needed food and services to our people at this critical time. As I write this, five families are buried in the wreckage of their homes. No one can rescue them because the bombing continues unabated. We may suffer soon from epidemics due to the fact that many bodies are not being recovered and buried.
This is how we see it: The war started after two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah. We understand that the Israeli Government needs to maintain the confidence of the Israeli people, especially after its failure to recover the kidnapped soldier in Gaza. But it is our understanding that the two soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah were given orders by their commanding officers to patrol near the Israeli-Lebanese border with the knowledge that the Hezbollah were seeking to kidnap Israeli soldiers for the purpose of an exchange for Lebanese and Arab detainees in Israeli prisons. We believe the Israeli government put these soldiers at risk in order to have an excuse to invade Lebanon.
Today the Lebanese Army lost 4 Lieutenants and 7 soldiers, killed after a bombing on the Army headquarters in east Beirut. This is the fifth attack on army centers, killing highly trained and educated army personnel at the same time the Israeli government claims that it wants the army's presence in the south of Lebanon to protect its Northern borders.
The Redemptorist Community in the Bekaa is sheltering many refugee families, and due to what we mentioned above, we have a big shortage of food and medication. The situation is getting worse everyday. We wonder whether we are being put through another “Massada”?
We would like to ask for any help in the form of funds and supplies and ask the world to convey our predicament to as many people as possible. The Church leaders of Lebanon are sending the same cry. Your voice can make the military leaders, governments and world public opinion understand the importance of creating a "secure passage" for food and medical supplies
Please visit our website at: http://www.cssr.com
Past issues of SCALA are archived at: http://www.cssr.com/scala/index.shtm
Posted by: Fr. Jeffrey Stephaniuk | 2006-07-26 7:53:36 PM
100% safety, for medical supplies and food, in a war zone, (with shells being lobbed from terrorist locations, that will exploit anything and everything), is not possible.
That is why, when war happens, a properly trained team of soldiers is required to transport supplies, and do medical. No one can gaurantee that the supply will be protected 100% therefore best thing to do is permit those who have signed up for service, do the job that is required. And leave the people who cannot and willnot understand that, at home in their bunkers.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-07-27 9:23:59 AM
A letter was sent to me, and I decided to cut and paste it, as there is no site for people to link to. I believe the sentiments therein are shared by many people, who just as I have been, are disgusted by the ungratefulness of these slimmy disgusting opportunistical beasts, who dare to take advantage of the goodness of our hearts, save their sorry buttocks from a war zone, and then complain!
The letter, written by Mike C, from Manitoba (last name with held unless he wants to print it himself) speaks volumes. The only thing I disagree with, is I would not want to pay for the complainers to go back to the war zone, as he has suggested he would do. Then again, he might just have the money, to give them all the boot!
Here is his letter:
Plight of the Lebanese canadians.............
I just had to write this to get it off my chest. You may or may not agree
with my sentiments however they are my opinions.
I was watching CBC news coverage this morning of the events concerning the
returns of Lebanese-canadians. You'll note I did not capitalize the word
Canadians when referring to these people as it was evident by their
comments that they consider themselves to be Lebanese first and Canadians second.
The more I watched the madder I got and I ended up turning off the television.
A host of the returnees to Canada were complaining about the Canadian
Governments and its slow response. Some of the returnees commented that
Canada should be ashamed of itself for its slow response in getting them out.
One person complained about taking 11 hours to get to Cyrpress and
also complained about the sandwiches that they were given. I was stunned
at the ingratitude of the people being interviewed. Considering the
logistics involved in getting thousands of people out of Lebanon I think
the Canadian Government and other governments did well.
I got to thinking about the situation and came to the conclusion that
Canada now seems to be a land of opportunists, not opportunity. The only
two people in my family who got a free trip to Europe were my dad and my
uncle Charlie who were shipped overseas to serve in World War 11. No-one
asked most of these people to go to Lebanon so a free trip back with
minor inconveniences is a good deal. Better than being dead I suppose.
Here is the deal. I will arrange to pay for a trip back to war torn
Lebanon for any Lebanese- Canadian ingrate who agrees to the following.
If you feel ashamed of Canada and its response you should renounce your
Canadian Citizenship, pay back the government of Canada for the free
services you received when you came here such as medical, dental,
education, job start programs, housing, ESL classes, business venture
grants etc. and for those going back to live in Lebanon give up your CPP
benefits (a great many Canadians are ignorant about the programs your tax
dollar is paying for). As I stated earlier Canada seems to be the land of opportunists.
I wonder what the percentage would be of these ingrates serving in our Armed Forces?
Now, you might view me as a radical and a bigot. That is your opinion.
The above is mine. I am one of many CANADIANS who are just fed up with
the ingratitude of some and the milking of our government by others. It's
about time that people stood up and said enough is enough. Political
correctness is a way to stifle people from speaking how they feel and in
some cases speaking what is the truth. Affirmative action is nothing more
than reverse discrimination. As I stated earlier I am fed up with the
hyphenation of Canadian citizenship. You are either a Canadian or you are
I intend on sending this letter to my M.P. and anyone else I can think of.
If you agree with me please pass this on, if not, then press delete.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-07-27 9:32:23 AM
"And the houses that Israel tore down, were being used for conducting illegal terrorist business. So, in the same manner as those who conduct illegal drug trade, they have no valid claim against the state. But, if their story is told in amnner by which the state has no rights, then it is easy to fool people into believing that it is the state that is wrong, and the people wronged."
Lady (to use that term to address you is repugnant to me), you have no clue, do you? You only think you have a clue.
Are you suggesting that all of the Palestinian Christians that have had their homes torn down, or have been evicted, were Islamic terrorists, too?
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 9:46:20 AM
I was referring to the legal right of the state to tear down houses.
You have not referenced any report on the houses you have referred to, therefore I cannot comment on it.
And, if all you have is a complaint, and not a full report, then I do not feel I would want to comment on it.
But theoretically, if a person in Canada, built a house illegally, the state here, could tear it down, and give the bill to the owner. I do not recommend you test my theory.
In fact, with due process, our state can tear down pretty much any house, if it is in the best interest of the state to do so. Happens all the time. And does not happen most of the time, as you can see! And yet I have seen dozens of houses expropriated and torn down, for parks, highways, sewage treatment, unsafety and whatever.
Sure, there are reasons given, and the state does not go around tearing down houses, without right first, and cause as well.
As with all states, the reasons for houses being torn down in Israel, have been as varried as in Canada, with the addition that some having been torn down for reasons that they were used for terror activities.
I have not heard of any house being torn down in Canada, for terrorist activity, but I do not read everything.
In Israel, activities such as weapons factories, tunnel openings under houses, arms/ bomb/ ammunition/ explosive storage, building, factoris and smuggling, and more, are just a few of the reasons that I have seen on some reports. But that method of addressing the terrorist threats, real ones might I add, seems to have been disguarded, as Saudis ran a telethon, and raised half a billion, to give to the people who lost their houses, so they could rebuild. Do you know whether or not your friends have collected from the Saudis?
The actual religion of the individuals is not the consideration, in relation to the cause of the state, to its right, to protect the best interests of the nation, its interests, and all citizens.
In the bigger picture, millions of Jews have had everything stolen from them, including their lives, generation after generation.
Millions of Arabs Jews, from Northern Africa, have no way of making their claims, as AS Israelis, they are not permitted to go back to the nations who stole their lands, and make their claim.
No nation ever ran a telethon for them, so that they could be able to build a new house for themselves and their families.
No, they had to go and work, and rebuild their own lives, with no such reparations!
And the Jews who were evicted from Gaza and the West bank, they have also never been given any consideration or reparation from the robbers. And I have not even gone into the issue of what happens to an Arab who sells his property to Jews, in those areas. You can look it up for yourself, as it is totally horrifying!
And then of course, there are the recent Jews, who were evicted from Gaza. The same for them. So, I do not know what it is you are trying to get at with your point. Do you believe that Arab Christians have more rights than Arab Jews?
Meanwhile, more Synagogues have been torn down by Arabs, in the disputed territories, since Krystalnacht, or the night of broken glass, November 9, 1938. You can look that up as well.
And the Jews, when they disengaged from Gaza, and left what is their traditional homelands, they left in tact green houses for the Arab economy. Apparently they did not understand that the greenhouses were there for their use and prosperity, as a multi-million dollar gift, and ransacked them! You can look that up as well.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-07-27 10:27:32 AM
"In fact, with due process, our state can tear down pretty much any house, if it is in the best interest of the state to do so. Happens all the time. And does not happen most of the time, as you can see!"
"best interest of the state..." heh. Spoken like a true communist.
So, do you agree with this, Lady? You support 'the state's' ability to do this?
"And yet I have seen dozens of houses expropriated and torn down, for parks, highways, sewage treatment, unsafety and whatever."
You've seen dozens, eh?
"The actual religion of the individuals is not the consideration, in relation to the cause of the state, to its right, to protect the best interests of the nation, its interests, and all citizens."
Bullshit. During the Gulf War, Jews were provided with gas masks. Muslims and Christians in the occupied territories were not.
"In the bigger picture, millions of Jews have had everything stolen from them, including their lives, generation after generation."
So, this justifies the taking away of property of Palestinians, does it?
"No nation ever ran a telethon for them, so that they could be able to build a new house for themselves and their families."
True. They've been subsidized to the tune of billions of dollars by other countries.
"And the Jews who were evicted from Gaza and the West bank, they have also never been given any consideration or reparation from the robbers."
Oh.. who are the "robbers," exactly?
"Do you believe that Arab Christians have more rights than Arab Jews?"
Inherent rights - no.
" And the Jews, when they disengaged from Gaza, and left what is their traditional homelands,"
Your definition of "traditional" please?
Are you willing to apply this same definition to say... the Cherokee Indians of the USA?
How about to the Irish that had lands stolen by the English?
"Apparently they did not understand that the greenhouses were there for their use and prosperity, as a multi-million dollar gift, and ransacked them! You can look that up as well."
I have. Did you know that those greenhouses were possible because Israel controlled the water resource and diverted 80% of the water to the settlers away from the inhabitants of the occupied territories? You can go look that up too.
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 10:51:44 AM
OK, next time a highway is being built, and your house is in the way, you can petition the crown to build the highway around your house, so your own property rights are not offended. I'll defend your right to be an idiot where ever you want. In fact, I'll write the press release, about your little protest!
Hold me back, I simply cannot stop laughing!
And, just because I say what is truth, does not mean I am a communist. Bet that when you wrote that down, your sticky ISM sponsored knickers wedged just a little higher than usual.
By the sound of it, you have never actually read a title deed, in Canada. I highly recommend you do.
And by the sounds of it, you have never looked at property laws, and what it actually means, when you say you have a right that has been given you by your nation. I suggest you read that slowly, over and over again! Especially the part that says "right that has been given you by your nation".
Great thing about a democracy is that when you do not like the law, you can get involved in democracy and change it.
And your garbage on Jews treating Jews over Christians and Muslims, as unequal, is a big fat lie! You go to Israel, and you will see Jews, Muslims and Christians playing on sports teams together. They take the buses together! They go to the same malls, and share the same discos! They work together, in the same departments, and serve side by side in the Army.
And you can look up tradition in the dictionary. Unlike you terrorist sympathizers, we normal people do not rewrite definitions to twist reality!
As for your reference to Cherokees in the USA, or Inuit in NWT for that matter, traditional homelands are the indigenous lands. Why should a definition here be somehow different anywhere?
Sounds as though you have your head fetterred where the Irish have made peace with the English. Wake up! The IRA and GB have had 100% resolve on their issues. And, they are working things out democratically. They are an example to the rest of the world, of how to resolve what appeared to be unresolvable issues!
So, are you a representative of the Palestinian Arabs? Are you their advocate? Or are you some sideliner, who has read ISM reports, and decided that they are all true, and that you are out there to save them.
Where have I heard that before? "we come in peace...."
If you are what you are, then you have read the Hamas Charter. If you have not read the Hamas Charter, may I suggest you have a good read, before bedtime. And, along with that, you can read the PLO Charter, and some history on partition of the state of Israel, and the multiple offers that have been on the table. Oh, and which have all been rejected by the Arabs, because it did not include a clause that said all the Jews would pack their bags and leave.
I hate to tell you this, but Israel does not have an expiry date!
And you need to get your history facts straight too!
Specificaly the parts that refer to the Imams who told the Arabs that they should leave, as in two weeks the Jews would be driven off their lands, and into the sea. Oh, and that was said back in 1948. So, they moved over to west bank (Samarian and Judea) and Gaza Strip, and have squatted in so called refugee camps ever since. Some went to other locations, where they had family, such as Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt.
So, does the knowledge that most of the people who refer to themselves as Palestinians today, were actually Jordanian, until 1967 ring a bell? Oh, that be the time when the King of Jordan, may he rest in peace, decided it was not in their best interests, to keep those people are citizens of his nation.
Please note that Samaritans and Judaeians are Jews.
And, the UN, through our tax dollars, built some of them so called refugees some very nice houses. You must recall the time where the terrorists attacked the UN, and demanded that the welfare houses be increased to sizes, large enough for them to raise their families of eight to twelve children each. That was not too long ago. They wanted the size of the houses increased to about 2400 square feet or more! What I gathered from that was that our Canadian tax dollars were going to build houses, so that other people could over populate the planet, in an area with extremely scarce resources, and a large terrorist force.
Meanwhile, public housing in Canada is what size? About 400-900 square feet, if the poor person is lucky to get housing? Or perhaps you feel it is OK for Canadians to sleep on the street, in the dead of winter, but when a person and their family deserts a nation, that they were invited to join, that they have the right to forever live off welfare, at everyone else's expense!?
Or perhaps you can tell the Cherokee in the States, why it is his country, the USA, was building houses for Arabs to raise their families, while he was expected to pay for his own trailor? So, where do you see communism? In USA or in UNWRA and ISM?
Or how about this. 85% of all monies that was going to Israel, had to spent in USA. There was not one penny of free grants! Meanwhile, 100% of monies spent on UNWRA was spent in the disputed territories. So, why is it that UNFIL and UNWRA get money for terrorists, but Jews never get compensated for their losses, when they were kicked out of the Arab nations?
And, when monies were spent in Israel, there were actual contracts, with actual services provided to the USA. Meanwhile, can you tell me exactly what the USA, and Canada for that matter, got for all the billions of dollars of our tax dolars, that we spent in helping these welfare bums? I can tell you, there are records that show UNWRA employed Hisbollah terrorists! and, with full knowledge of the Liberals and their slackers!
And your reference to the water is interesting, though incomplete. You saying that Israel has to provide free services to Arabs who are not Israeli citizens, and who have vowed to kill all Israelis, and drive them into the sea? I recall older discussions on disengagement, where the Arabs wanted the Jews out, but wanted to keep working for the jews at the same time. So, which is it? In? Or out?
That reminds me of some of these separatists, who want out, but they want to keep their pensions, the welfare, the Canadian dollar currency, and all the benefits of being Canadian, without any of the responsibility.
You sound like one of those people who believe that the government must pay for everything.
And on water, we would never pipline our water to the states. But we will sell them beer. There is great respect in the USA in regards to our beer.
And who are robbers exactly? Well, that is the point isn't it!? Jews have indigenous rights to the lands of Israel, whereas Arabs do not. And yet this has not stopped Israel from having more than a million Arabs and Druze, and other ethnic groups, who are equal citizens in Israel, from having equal benefits. They can attend the same Universities, get the same grants, and enjoy the same sand with Jews. Yet, on the other hand, the Arabs in the disupted territories, who are not Israeli citizens, they want the lands free from all Jews and others they call infidels. So, what is with that? Sounds like Nazis to me! Oh, in fact the swearing in of Hamas and Hisbollah, well, they raise their right arm to 45 degree angle, and hand out stretched, just like the Nazis!
No, as a woman, I will never ever accept the kind of discrimination as propossed by the terrorists against the plural society of the State of Israel. And, as a capitalist, I will never ever accept the welfare state that these desperate despots have exploited for their racist ideological perspective. And, as a Canadian, I will not give them one penny! There was a time, when all I thought they needed was economy, but they took every single opportunity, and flushed it down the sewer system. Even just over a year ago, thousands of multi-million dollar contracts, with western nations, were waiting for the right signal, that they were entering the free world, and they decided to turn into the warring terrorist regime they are today. When they change their minds, and decide to join, and prove that they are worthy, then things might change for them! Until then, when they spend my tax dollars, and do what they do, and train their children to kill with their bodies, and use their living rooms as places to launch rockets into civilian locations, I will not have one single nice word to say about them!
Posted by: Lady | 2006-07-27 11:57:14 AM
"OK, next time a highway is being built, and your house is in the way, you can petition the crown to build the highway around your house, so your own property rights are not offended. I'll defend your right to be an idiot where ever you want. In fact, I'll write the press release, about your little protest!"
Great. Now I understand where you come from. You don't really care about inherent rights. That's good to know, thank you for admitting that.
"By the sound of it, you have never actually read a title deed, in Canada. I highly recommend you do."
I most certainly have. Just because a State won't recognize inherent rights, doesn't make it "right."
"And by the sounds of it, you have never looked at property laws, and what it actually means, when you say you have a right that has been given you by your nation. I suggest you read that slowly, over and over again! Especially the part that says "right that has been given you by your nation"."
You read it over slowly. If it is what a "nation" gives you, are you suggesting the "State" has a moral right to give or take away inherent rights?
"And your garbage on Jews treating Jews over Christians and Muslims, as unequal, is a big fat lie!"
Is that right?
"As for your reference to Cherokees in the USA, or Inuit in NWT for that matter, traditional homelands are the indigenous lands. Why should a definition here be somehow different anywhere?"
Very good. So do they have the "right" to decide to move in on your property because in their opinion, the "conquest" or the "treaties" were unfair to their ancestors?
"Sounds as though you have your head fetterred where the Irish have made peace with the English. Wake up! The IRA and GB have had 100% resolve on their issues"
You're a liar. There is not 100% resolve on this issue whatsoever. There is still much to discuss, negotiate, and nothing has been fully resolved at all.
"Specificaly the parts that refer to the Imams who told the Arabs that they should leave, as in two weeks the Jews would be driven off their lands, and into the sea. Oh, and that was said back in 1948. So, they moved over to west bank (Samarian and Judea) and Gaza Strip, and have squatted in so called refugee camps ever since. Some went to other locations, where they had family, such as Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt."
*sigh* What selective facts you choose, huh?
after the capture by Jewish forces of Jaffa on May 13, 1948, two days before Israel’s birth, there was desecration of Christian churches. Father Deleque, a Catholic priest, reported: “Jewish soldiers broke down the doors of my church and robbed many precious and sacred objects. Then they threw the statues of Christ down into a nearby garden.” He added that Jewish leaders had reassured that religious buildings would be respected, “but their deeds do not correspond to their words.”"
"On May 31, 1948, a group of Christian leaders comprising the Christian Union of Palestine publicly complained that Jewish forces had used 10 Christian churches and humanitarian institutions in Jerusalem as military bases and otherwise desecrated them. They added that a total of 14 churches had suffered shell damage, which killed three priests and made casualties of more than 100 women and children."
"Churches were again desecrated during the 1967 war when Israel captured East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza, completing the occupation of all of Palestine. On July 21, 1967, the Reverend James L. Kelso, a former moderator of the United Presbyterian Church and long-time resident in Palestine, complained of extensive damage to churches adding: “So significant was this third Jewish war against the Arabs that one of the finest missionaries of the Near East called it ‘perhaps the most serious setback that Christendom has had since the fall of Constantinople in 1453.’”"
Lie? Oh those dirty rotten lying Christians, huh?
"Perhaps the worst outbreak of organized desecration of Christian institutions came on Sept. 10, 1963, when hundreds of ultra-orthodox Jews simultaneously attacked Christian missions in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem. (One has to say “perhaps because reporting on this sensitive subject in the U.S. media has been so poor over the decades.) At any rate, the attacks were a concerted effort to intimidate Christians in Israel by a religious vigilante group called Hever Peelei Hamahane Hatorati, the Society of Activists of the Torah Camp. In an attack on the Church of Scotland school in Jaffa, Christian children were beaten and considerable damage was caused to the school by at least 200 rampaging Jews."
Another lie, right?
"Meanwhile, public housing in Canada is what size? About 400-900 square feet, if the poor person is lucky to get housing?"
More bullshit. I've worked in public housing in Canada. Why don't you at least try to tell some truths?
The rest of your comment, as like the first half, is filled with idiocy and half facts along with your silly projections about me.
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 12:46:59 PM
" Jews have indigenous rights to the lands of Israel, whereas Arabs do not."
Wrong. The Israelites evicted the Caananites. This is a fact, according to ancient Hebrew texts and is fully supported.
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 1:13:56 PM
I do not recall ever telling you what I actually believe in relation to property rights. I was discussing what is, at present, in most nations and Canada in general.
You want to change property rights, then fill your boots!
Even if "inherent" property rights were included in Canadian laws, they would always be written in respect to the rights of the state to over ride individual rights, whether inherent or otherwise stated. Amkes no difference whether the state is capitalist, quasi-capitalist, or quasi-socialist. It goes without saying, there is no such thing as property rights, in a communist state.
Canadians, whether indigenous or not, have rights in Canada. And the right for an indigenous Canadian, to purchase and own property, is not different from anyone elses, at this point in time. This is Canada.
And yet, if a person abandones a property in Canada, regardless of their ehtnicity, faith, gender or whatever, and fails to pay the taxes, their property can be expropriated for and by the state.
That's a fact!
And if a house is in need of repair, and a hazzard to the dwellers, it can be closed by the state. If the property owners fails to make the repairs, it can be torn down! Like it or not, the same goes for said holy ground! Real believers know what exactly is the difference between something holy and something that is not. You want to take up a debate on that, I suggest you make discussion with Speller. He's more interested in that than I am. I have my own views on what is making holy, and I am not debating that with you, at any point in time.
Sometimes, the reality of the situation, and common sense, prevails! It may not be to your liking, but their is no such thing as a perfect situation, to fill all your political needs.
So, I make a statement about the size of the public housing, you say you have the answer, and say what? Nothing. Nice contribution Ian. So, do I take it that you agree that if you want to get bigger public housing, that storming the developers office, firing into the cieling, with fully automatic weapons, is the way to go about doing business? Because that is what the Palestinian terrorists did when they made those demands of the UN housing development, in the disputed territories. You can call it whatever you want, or avoid it because it does not fit with your chosen view of them, but I call it what I sees it as! It is totally barbaric! And I am not paying for their housing! None! Nil! Nada! No more Canadian tax payers dollars, for terrorists!
I do not believe we should be paying for housing developments for terrorists, when our people sleep in the street. There is something very wrong about not taking care of your own, while taking care of someone else's problem, to standards higher than your own.
I have seen many public housing developments myself, in Canada, and many are very small. And I am still waiting for you to share with us the size of the housings you worked on, and for how many people, while you are at it!
And you tell me about incidents between subgroups in Israel, and reference that as though it were matters done by the State itself.
So, if a group of people attacked another group in Canada, would you also conclude that it was Canada that did that? I say, no! That is a civil or criminal internal matter, that has no such State signature. I urge you to get your perspective straight. If you cannot, you do not belong in the debate. Sure, you can find some incidents that have state signature, but then you would be changeing the debate to suit your position.
I can see you are annoyed about certain things. You have the right to your feelings, and yet feelings and facts are independent of eachother. And, there are many things that happenned here in Canada, that still piss people off! The facts are the facts. Deal with it!
And your reference to your articles has nothing to do with a position of the state. What a sub-group of ultra-Orthodox Jews, for example, did on a particular date is only relevant to that incident, at that particular time, with those people. You have presented one side! That is not a report, that is a view. If you had any sense of justice you would present both views! Just because they are Jews does not mean they are perfect any more than a group of Christians is also not perfect. That is why there are laws and civil and criminal ways to deal with these issues. Unlike terrorists, Israel does not permit people to commit murder with impunity.
In relation to the Irish, I was referring to the matter of terrorism. The issues are being dealt with in an ongoing democratic forum. The IRA has satisfied their end of the agreement, 100% to date. Since our world is not perfect, there are always going to be disagreements. Fact remains, at this point in time, they are working things out through the democratic process, which I say, is commendable to all parties! That is my opinion, and I am sticking to it! You may say the cup is half empty, whereas I say, it is half full!
And in relation to the incidents you have presented abstract summaries on, there is nothing I have to say about those matters specifically.
But I can tell you this, that those you care about are not the only folks who have had to give up their dwellings during times of war. I am not familiar with your particular cases, so therefore I cannot offer particular comment on them. And as I said, since I see no complete report, I cannot comment of that either.
Now, you can either keep on creating a list of things, over the last Century, that get you all bent out of shape, or you can look and see how things are today, and come to the conclusion that many Jews, Christians and Muslims have, in Israel, that it is better to work together, than to live in strife.
I know many many are working together to enable Israel and the middle East, to be safe and secure. And that goes for all interested parties. And that is true, whether in terms of religion, education, government, service, business and more.
I do not see the same coming form the terrorist side.
During WWII, areas all over Europe, were bombed to pieces. After the war was over, there was the period of rebuilding. Now, you could say that Allied forces desecrated Christian Churches all over Europe. You can also say that Germans Axis desecrated Synagogues and Christians Churches all over Germany and Europe. These facts are true. Yet none of that has anything to do with a general position on the state and property rights. Laws are what they are. Whether a law is a good law, a bad law, a just law, an ethical law, a best law, or a law that I believe in, is all different. For a particularily nasty bedtime read, read the Nuremberg laws. And no, I do not believe in those laws, and neither would the majority of Canadians. They might appeal to folks who get all happy about shariah, as they excluded Jews from every single aspect of German Society, and were the basis on which the Germans persecuted and murdered millions of Jews. They also murdered millions of other people as well. So, have fun reading Ian. Or perhaps that is a poor descriptor of the time you would have reading about those laws.
In spite of all the issues we Canadians have with our laws, I am proud to be a Canadian, and believe in the process we have of changeing things, should we so collectively and democratically choose to do so. That, I do believe, is on the Conservative agenda, and I am in agreement with it!
Posted by: Lady | 2006-07-27 2:03:12 PM
No Ian, you are wrong. The Canaanites were never united into a single nation like the jews. They aren't even of arab origin. And the jews were there before the Philistines arrived.
[quote]The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs.
The Philistines reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. [/quote]
You can find more history of the term Palestine here:
Posted by: Larry Pope | 2006-07-27 2:14:15 PM
"No Ian, you are wrong. The Canaanites were never united into a single nation like the jews."
So what? Neither were the Natives of Canada united into a single nation. Nor were the natives of Australia.
Now you are just playing word games.
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 3:09:19 PM
"I do not recall ever telling you what I actually believe in relation to property rights. I was discussing what is, at present, in most nations and Canada in general.
You want to change property rights, then fill your boots! "
Property rights are inherent. Whether a state recognizes them or not is not the point.
"would always be written in respect to the rights of the state to over ride individual rights, whether inherent or otherwise stated"
"And yet, if a person abandones a property in Canada, regardless of their ehtnicity, faith, gender or whatever, and fails to pay the taxes, their property can be expropriated for and by the state.
That's a fact! "
Yes, a very sad fact indeed.
"And if a house is in need of repair, and a hazzard to the dwellers, it can be closed by the state. If the property owners fails to make the repairs, it can be torn down!"
Another very sad fact.
"So, I make a statement about the size of the public housing, you say you have the answer, and say what?"
Your comprehension skills are piss poor. I did not say I had the answer. I wrote that you were asserting bullshit, and I know it is bullshit because I worked in housing.
In Toronto, you will find very little, if any, public housing that is 400 sq. foot. The typical housing unit in Toronto is an average 2 bedroom size, and typical of the average 2 bedroom apartment that is not public housing.
In fact, there are hundreds upon hundreds of public housing units in Toronto that are full size houses, both townhouse, semi's and detached.
Your assertion is bullshit.
So, if a group of people attacked another group in Canada, would you also conclude that it was Canada that did that? I say, no! That is a civil or criminal internal matter, that has no such State signature. I urge you to get your perspective straight."
I urge you to get your perspective straight. If acts are done criminally, but the State does not do anything to prosecute or stop, then it is state sanctioned, as far as I'm concerned.
"I can see you are annoyed about certain things."
You see no such thing. Anything you "see" about me are the fantasies in your head that you are projecting upon my words.
"In relation to the Irish, I was referring to the matter of terrorism. The issues are being dealt with in an ongoing democratic forum. The IRA has satisfied their end of the agreement, 100% to date. Since our world is not perfect, there are always going to be disagreements. Fact remains, at this point in time, they are working things out through the democratic process, which I say, is commendable to all parties!"
This is nothing like what you first asserted: "The IRA and GB have had 100% resolve on their issues"
If you keep changing the meaning of your assertions, why should anyone pay attention to anything you write?
"But I can tell you this, that those you care about are not the only folks who have had to give up their dwellings during times of war."
You have no fucking clue what I "care" about.
"I am not familiar with your particular cases, so therefore I cannot offer particular comment on them. And as I said, since I see no complete report, I cannot comment of that either."
Try reading and learning about stuff that isn't just within your own personal world view. That would be a good start in becoming more familiar with events you don't know about yet.
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 3:20:40 PM
Lady, I guess you probably know more about this conflict than the "Jews For Justice" organization.
But just in case you do want to do some further reading, perhaps you might want to take a look at their website?
And more reading for you, if you care to expand your knowledge and world views:
I'll have more shortly if you are at all interested in learning more things, but I do need to get some work done.
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 3:48:36 PM
June 26, 2006 (Note - Last month of this year)
The Supreme Court orders the IDF and Israel Police to protect Palestinian farmers, and their property, from attacks by violent settlers, and to act immediately and decisively to permanently uproot this phenomenon
The verdict, that was issued today in response to the petition submitted by ACRI and the organization Rabbis for Human Rights, severely criticizes the lax approach displayed by the police and security personnel in their law enforcement work against violent settlers, and ruled that the closure of territory to Palestinians in order to protect them from settlers, is akin to granting a prize for violence.
Supreme Court Justices, Dorit Beinisch, Eliezer Rivlin, and Salim Joubran, issued their verdict on the petition that was submitted by ACRI, and the organization, Rabbis for Human Rights, in 2004 by ACRI Attorney Limor Yehuda, in the name of the heads of five village councils in the West Bank. The verdict, that was written by justice Dorit Beinisch, specifically states that the IDF and the Israel Police must take all the necessary measures at their disposal to protect Palestinian farmers who wish to work their land, and to protect their right to ownership. Ensuring the personal safety and the right to ownership of local residents, the court adds, is one of the most basic responsibilities of a military commander in the field. Justice Beinisch also states that despite a certain improvement that has occurred in relation to this issue, the state of affairs is far from satisfactory, and that the results [on the ground] have not been successful in the area of law enforcement against criminal Jewish settlers.
In their verdict, the justices denote the principles that should guide the work of the security forces when dealing with incidents involving violent attacks against Palestinian agricultural workers, and deliberate damage to their property. Firstly, they state, action must be taken to ensure the personal security of the Palestinians, and when required, to physically protect them during the course of their agricultural work. This protection should be provided with the minimum disturbance to their work. Secondly, the verdict adds, clear and unequivocal instructions must be issued to forces deployed in the area as to what action to take to ensure that the farmers are not denied access to their agricultural land, other than in exceptional circumstances. Thirdly, security personnel should be allocated to protect the Palestinian residents’ right to ownership, and fourthly – complaints filed by Palestinian residents should be fully investigated as quickly as possible. With regard to this issue, the verdict further states, explicitly, that an investigation must be opened upon receipt of a report of an attack, and patrols (of security personnel) dispatched whose purpose is to uncover such actions. The verdict further states that it is highly doubtful that the police units that were established for this purpose have been provided with all the necessary means to enforce the law. Thus, the verdict continues, the law enforcement investigative and prosecution mechanisms must be upgraded.
The justices also accepted the organizations’ claim that the tool of territorial closure, to prevent Palestinian entry to land surrounding Jewish settlements and illegal outposts, had been illegitimately utilized. However, the Supreme Court did not accept the organizations’ claim, which was endorsed by a statement of opinion prepared by security experts, that there was no need in the current case to close off territory even when its stated purpose is to protect settlements in the area. The petitioning organizations are saddened that the Supreme Court chose to disregard their claim that part of the territory that was closed off was in order to defend illegal outposts. It should be noted, however, that as a result of the petition and its hearings, there was a significant reduction in the amount of territory to which Palestinians were denied entry. The court expressed a particularly severe criticism of the practical methods used to close off areas to Palestinians in cases in which the stated purpose is to protect Palestinian farmers from attacks by local settlers. Justice Beinisch states in relation to this issue that, “in order to protect Palestinian farmers, the military commander again chose to act against them, even when they are the victims of the attack”. The danger to Palestinians, she clarifies, should be prevented by forces that are designated for their protection, and through the imposition of “limitations that will act as an effective measure against individuals who are in breach of the law and attack Palestinians”. Justice Joubran further adds in regard to the limitations that were imposed on Palestinians in this context, that they are “akin to the granting of a prize for violence, and that they convey an erroneous message of submission and surrender to the individuals who break the law, even at the price of violating the basic principles upon which the state’s governing system is founded”.
For further details please contact Attorney Limor Yehuda at: 02-6521218, or Yoav Loeff, ACRI spokesman, at: 02-6521218 / Beeper: 03-6106666, subscription 36477, or Rabbi Arik Asherman, Executive Director of Rabbis for Human Rights, at: 02-6482757 / 050-5607034.
Anyone wanna try telling me things have been going great as far as treatment of Palestinians go? Funny, isn't it, if things are so great, that the Supreme Court would have to make such a ruling last month, huh?
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-27 4:48:27 PM
"Anyone wanna try telling me things have been going great as far as treatment of Palestinians go? Funny, isn't it, if things are so great, that the Supreme Court would have to make such a ruling last month, huh?"
Posted by: Ian Scott | 2006-07-28 1:33:44 AM
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