The Shotgun Blog
« Caledonia and Gambling | Main | For instance, Tommy wasn't really a "giant" »
Monday, June 12, 2006
Vancouver Questions
Why is the city of Vancouver trying to shut down a Falun Gong protest display that it had previously allowed to stand for five years? Anything to do with the Campbell government's attempts to build trade ties with the ChiComs?
This leads me to a request of sorts: anyone up for bringing back the BC Social Credit Party?
Posted by D.J. McGuire on June 12, 2006 in Canadian Politics, Canadian Provincial Politics, International Affairs | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
https://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834515b5d69e200d8342a7e8453ef
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Vancouver Questions:
» Vancouver BC and Falun Gong: China Appeasment? from Sagebrush
Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan is playing footsie with communist China. Freedom-fighters Falun Gong are persona non-grata in BC these days. Between Heaven and Earth:
Dear Friends:
On June 8, Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan ordered local Falun Gong prac [Read More]
Tracked on 2006-06-12 7:55:15 PM
Comments
It's clear that all the arrows are pointing in the direction of the Chinese Consulate pressuring Mayor Sullivan to take down the blue wall.
Most government officials have the same mantra these days: What Beijing wants--Beijing gets. So,it looks like Sullivan has become their new puppet who's cautiously hiding behind a fake spontaneous bylaw campaign to save face being too shameful to admit that he caved in to Communist China. The Consulate had exerted the same kind of pressure on Campbell when he was Mayor nevertheless he had given verbal permission for practitioners to protest there.
For the time being the Chinese Communist Party seems to be the ruling party in Vancouver. Indeed, this is a sad day for human rights activists but a good day for the commies!
Posted by: makina | 2006-06-12 2:32:35 PM
the city of vancouver should keep the falun gong protest display until the chinese government stop the persecute of falun gong.
Posted by: johnny Zhou | 2006-06-12 2:35:52 PM
Look, the sign is/was ugly. And what does it sell? All it sells is politics of another turf on Canadian soil. And what do Falun Gong want? They want a conflict with their state AND they want it on our turf. They are just another one of these poor-me loser groups, out seeking attention, for problems they go out of their way to create. And, they get money from people, to do it too!
If you read about the cult Falun Gong, you will clearly see that their aim is to make the state of china embrace them in every way, shape and form, including all of their principles. And not just a little bit here and there. They want their state to only embrace their principles. Sure, they have a right to their principles, but they are not in trouble because of light fluff!
Picture if you will, a group trying to do that here in Canada? Last time we had a group like that try to run Canada, they said we should all practice yogic flying. (Natural law party) You know, crossing your legs, one over the other, and then bouncing on a bed. Sure, they had answers to everyone's problems. They would get everyone to sit around and "OM" away, and there would be peace and plenty in the lands of oh Canada.
Could there BE anything quite so stupid?
NEXT!
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-12 2:42:51 PM
To Lady below,
My wife is Chinese and was tortured by the Communist regime in China because
she practices Falun Gong. She is no looser and I don't think she asked for it.
The degree of hatred in your words is quite alarming.
As a human being part of this world, it just feels natural to stand up against atrocities and human rights violations, wherever they might be happening.
If you read about Falun Gong meditation practice, like reading its material, you will realize that first of all its not a cult, as it is open,
has no membership nor bank account. Then you will know that it seeks no political power and only wants to end the persecution in China, which also affect other spiritualities like Christians, Tibetans and Muslims.
Are you putting yourself in opposition to all these oppressed people and siding with viciousness
and barbarism, torture and the like?
Could there BE anything quite so damaging for what's left of humanity?
Posted by: Noah | 2006-06-12 3:20:09 PM
Hey Lady,
How big and ugly would your signs be if your friends and relatives were being tortured to death and their organs removed at the last minute?
Ever since the Communist Regime took over, the Chinese people have been selling their souls because they could not endure the terrorist tactics of this brutal dictatorship. Falun Gong is the first group of people who have not been willing to compromise their principles and go against their conscience and thus are being tortured to death by the thousands. The Chinese Communist Party is scared to death of Falun Gong because of their bravery, their courage and their willingness to stand up for the truth. Most groups or even an individual have not been able to withstand a CCP campaign for 3 days, let alone seven years. Falun Gong is the first group of people that they have not been able to fell with their barbaric and inhuman treatment. They deserve our support and respect.
Lian
Posted by: Lian | 2006-06-12 3:20:20 PM
Why are we letting genocide in China happen in this day in age and then shutting the mouths of those who are trying to get the world to do something about it. If we let Vancouver mayor Sullivan shut down Falun Gong's peaceful appeal site we are aiding in muder and genocide! Go figure Canada! Martin Luther King Jr. must be rolling over in his grave! What happened to " Let freedom reign!"
Posted by: Charmaine Millott | 2006-06-12 3:21:00 PM
Mayor Sullivan should look beyond the end of his nose and put the rights of people living in his own city before the wishes of the Chinese communist dictatorship. The Falun Gong need every break they can get in trying to stop the brutal persecution in China. Sullivan has his priorities reversed; he should tell the commies to take a hike and give the Falun Gong a permit to maintain thier appeal outside the consulate.
Posted by: Murphy | 2006-06-12 3:47:43 PM
Here's an idea: Get all the falun Gong wanting to display their protest materials to dress up like cross-dressing sexual deviants and have a parade. There is no way that Vancouver would try to stop that!
Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-06-12 4:43:07 PM
Vancouver should be proud of the blue wall. It tells u what the city stands for, or I should say used to?
Posted by: Ma | 2006-06-12 5:04:51 PM
Vancouver should be proud of the blue wall. It tells u what the city stands for, or I should say used to?
Posted by: Ma | 2006-06-12 5:05:12 PM
Vancouver just cannot shut down this Wall. In the face of the Chinese consulate, the starting point for the spreading of the Communist lies and hatred in Canada, the Truth is exposed and clarified to the people passsing by. This is what accomplishes this Wall.
Let the Truth be heard, not silence.
Canada and Vancouver have to take a stand in front of such barbarism, that is : the Chinese Communist Party's persecutionssssss.
Posted by: Arnaud | 2006-06-12 5:19:09 PM
The comment from the "lady" is a clear example of why the protest signs should stay. The Chinese Communist Party has used everything they have to turn each Chinese persons way of thinking into the same as the Chinese Communist Parties way of thinking. Their propaganda machine is so powerful it can make people justify the Communist Party of China's crimes against humanity- hate, torture and killing- into something people just deserve. They spin and turn facts into whatever they want. This party exists because they have deceived and controlled the culture and thoughts of the Chinese people for over a half a century. The simple truth of the matter is Falun Gong is protesting because practitioners have been brutally tortured and killed for their beliefs- the protest is for a right to practise and to save Chinese practitioners from death and torture. It is for justice.
Posted by: Corinne P. | 2006-06-12 7:29:10 PM
Peolple are being murdered. Isn't that reason good enough?
Whose life is not precious? If our lives are precious, why are not other people's lives?
Now there are someone out there trying to tell people the truth that people are being murdered for being good, are we going to shut their mouths?
Do we have any other way to show our support?
Posted by: Patrice | 2006-06-12 8:02:52 PM
I think: This is GOD'S text. Every human being has a chance to choose before THE LAST JUDGEMENT (from THE BIBLE).
You stand by GOD'S side or the DEVIL'S. GOOD PEOPLE DO NOT MISS YOUR CHANCE. I would like to say:GREAT BLUE WALL! THANK YOU FALUN-GONG!
Posted by: GRACE M | 2006-06-12 8:25:08 PM
It appears the news has struck a nerve.
Thanks to all those who have joined me in, well, wondering what the heck is going on here.
And Mayor Sullivan (and the members of the City Council), if you're reading this, all we ask is that you allow the protest exhibit to remain standing.
I'm sure you ladies and gentlemen have your reasons for trying to move them off (probably investments in your city promised by Communist "entrepreneurs"). We also understand that quantifiable benefits like that are hard to turn down when put up against unquantifiable benefits like the goodwill of a constituency too afraid of Communist spies to express their gratitude, or of tourists who would choose to put Vancouver before Seattle, Edmonton, Portland, Calgary, etc., if you were to allow the exhibit to stand.
All we can offer is our eternal gratitude for allowing the oppressed to have a voice in your city. That said, such gratitude can have value - in a Chinese-Canadian community no longer afraid, and more willing to take its place in the great mosaic of Vancouver, in a flood of visitors who feel they MUST come to the city that looked the most tyrannical regime and its Faustian bargain in the eye and said, "no."
All of this notwithstanding the fact that a large portion of the investments promised you by Beijing is likely to collapse on defaulted loans and corrupt cadre pay-offs before it gets halfway across the Pacific, but the good folks at the Weekly Standard can brief you on that: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/322cykvh.asp
Posted by: D.J. McGuire | 2006-06-12 9:18:36 PM
A friend of mine is a tour guide. He always bring his groups from mainland China to visit that blue boards in front of the Chinese Embassy. He said this site is a must see.
Posted by: Lee | 2006-06-12 9:23:49 PM
I can understand the pressure on Mayer sullivan from Government of China and Canadian government to take dowmn the Banners structure in front of Chinese Consulate and even pressure from Falun Gong practitioners to keep that structure up.I really feel for Mayer but this is just my own human sentiment.
From our moral standard and our foundemental values Mayer sullivan should stand up for justice. I think he is in a position to make a righteous choice to make himself, Vancouver people, and Canadian porud off by supporting Falun Gond practitioners to keep their banners up. Bowing to CCP and selling his soul for trade business with Chinese regime only will bring him bad future.
Posted by: Maney | 2006-06-12 9:39:53 PM
It's called 'preferred destination status'. This status would double the number of Chinese tourists to Canada. Beijing has been holding off on granting us that for a long time now and businessmen and politicians are panting after it.
The second reason is that B.C. signs agreement with Beijing to facilitate trade missions. The latest agreement was signed with Invest Beijing, which has close ties to the Vancouver mayor's office as well as regional governments. But still we need to attain the status of an approved destination. Why the hold-up on this?
>
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that closing the Falun Gong site would be one of the hoops that the city of Vancouver had to jump through in order to accomplish being granted this status. Sullivan has jumped through this hoop all the while chanting: "It is my decision!"
>
Posted by: Lian | 2006-06-12 9:49:22 PM
I don't think that it is about a bylaw infraction. Rather, it's a human right issue. Due to the ersecution of Falun Gong practitioners in China, Falun Gong practitioners in Vancouver have been protesting in front of the Chinese Consulate for the last 5 years. I do wish that the protest display would
stay there until the persecution ends in China.
Posted by: Chen | 2006-06-12 10:31:06 PM
You don't need to embrace the belief system of Falun Gong to support this cause, a genuine appreciation for human rights and democratic values is more than enough.
Please sign the online petition.
http://www.globalrescue.net/unproj/en/van.jsp
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-13 12:47:56 AM
Makina,
Eh, without prejudice.
I have no issues with the actual cause of Falun Gong or any other cult, who wishes to opperate in a true democratic form, in Canada, whether it is Hare Krishna, the Moonies, or Herbalife for that matter.
Fact remains, their cause in China is being waged on Canadian turf.
Choosing to remove an ugly sign does nothing to offend the human rights of citizens in China. It may even open up dialogue. And it is not a hateful gesture, as the sign has been up for 5 years! That has been a huge gesture of tolerance!
Where is the appreciation? Where is the mutual respect!? I see none!
If I placed an anti-terrorist sign up, just a two metre by two metre, my sign would come down quicker than you could shake a stick at it. And thousands of innocent people, including men, women and children, and babies, have died as a result of the terrorists, and no one in the Falun Gong movement has cared a damn, because they are too obsessed with their own cause to be concerned about anything beyond the end of their noses.
Removing the sign does not take away their right to peaceful protest either. Maybe it is time to mature and now would be a good time to start.
And besides, protesting the removal is not exactly a demonstration of the 'tolerance' so espoused by Falun Going in the first place. It irritates me without end, that folks who demand tolerance of them, are unwilling to make it a two way street! And that is the epitomy of "killing me softly"!
In other words, tolerate it, as this is a democracy, and the honourable Mayor Sullivan was dully elected by the people of Vancouver. If he cannot keep a sign bylaw, well then we cannot expect him to be able to change anything else.
The Falun Gong cause lives on in spite of changes required in the real world. You do not see members of Tai Chi in the same perdicament now do you? Why's that? That is a way of being, no? Because people do their Tai Chi and then get on with their lives, without making everything into an all encumpassing all impossing obsession.
Canadians are moderates. The only person who said that "too much of a good thing, is wonderful" was May West. And she was not referring to philosophy.
Five years of sign did nothing. You know a cause is going nowehere, when the people continue to do something that did not work 1825 times. Maybe this is just a subtle hint, but, you cannot win, if you continue to loose.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-13 9:58:55 AM
Freedom of Belief is our basic human rights. Living in a country that supports this right is taken for granted by the majority. Why don't we hear about the horror that China's Communist Party is putting millions of innocent people through daily? Not only are the citizens punished for their belief in religions but for the principles of being good, kind and truthful. After reading Epoch Time's article "The Nine Commentaries on the Chinese Communist Party"(CCP),
theepochtimes.com
I was shocked and disgusted with the treatment of fellow human-beings for the passed 55 years. The Falun Gong-Falun Dafa practitioners have been persecuted since 1999, almost seven years of torture, a horrific agony that we in a free country can't even imagine. Their innocent families and friends are also harassed and extorted. Many innocent children are orphaned by the hands of the CCP. This is the saddest thing in history to be persecuted for being truthful, compassionate and tolerant. Without these principles we are not a human race, but stoop to monstrous levels.
The CCP is the evil of all-evil trying to reduce the human race into demons that turn on each other for everything. I even found out that my local Mayor in Northern Ontario was sent hate propaganda from the CCP. The mark of the beast is spreading its poison throughout the world. We all have the right to express our feelings and to be good, kind and truthful. If we don't stop this atrocity to our world, our children will literally live in a hell on earth. Please support Freedom to believe in Truth, Compassion and Tolerance for the good of all human-beings, and future generations. If we don't speak up for basic human rights there will always be dictators. All it takes is to open our heart to those in need by spreading the truth. We don't know what kind of impact dealing with a murderous government can bring to our FREE COUNTRY. www.falundafa.org
"The Truth Will Set You Free"
Posted by: sue | 2006-06-13 10:50:00 AM
Lady,
I see that your site (Sobering up) is dedicated to the defense of Israel against Palestinian terrorism. I mention this because you should know two things:
1) While you and I obviously disagree on the blue wall issue, we are one on Israel's right to exist, and the duplicity of the Palestinian elite (Fatah and Hamas)
2) You should be aware that Hu Jintao called Israel a "colonialist plot aimed at detaching from the Arab nation a part that is dear to it – Palestine."
Communist China is not Israel's friend, and never will be. In fact, the CCP is the greatest supporter of international terrorism on the planet (http://china-e-lobby.blogspot.com/2005/09/on-war-on-terror-part-iii-communist_11.html). Iran would not be as near to nuclear weapons without the Communists; Osama would not be as wealthy without them; Saddam Hussein had his air defense network integrated by them; Syria's WMD programs were aided by them.
To be an anti-terrorist and an anti-Communist is to be the same thing.
Posted by: D.J. McGuire | 2006-06-13 10:58:15 AM
Lady,
You may not know this but the victims of the persecution live among us; they are Canadian citizens or residents, just like you and I, who have left their mother land because of the brutal regime.
So far the anti-Falun Gong hate propaganda from the CCP has hit all levels of government--this is one of the tactics of the CCP and a great way to export a persecution in the free world. One example of that is the reaction of Mayor Sullivan towards Falun Gong. Before he was elected he supported Falun Gong. Unfortunately he has become vulnerable to the CCP's demands and obviously lacks the integrity to uphold our democratic values and caved in.
The burning question is: "Do you agree that the commies' rule of law should predominate over our own laws (and I don't mean bylaws)? Because what's going on in Vancouver is a prime example of China's hate towards Falun Gong being spread and acted upon by Mayor Sullivan.
It is well known that most dictators use hate propaganda as a foundation for their persecution--well the commies are no exception and they have become masters of lies and deceit. Their killing spree has gone unchecked for 56 years. It's high time that somebody cries out for help and justice.
Let the Falun Gong speak out in the free world and denounce the crimes of the CCP that affects not only themselves but our government decision-making and our own rule of law. Their values are not our values.
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-13 12:16:12 PM
Lady, your analogy with tai chi doesn't make sense, because people who do tai chi are not persecuted. The Falun Gong "cause in China" as you put it, has to be waged on Canadian turf--it certainly can't be waged in China because there's no free speech there. And Canadian citizens have a right to speak out about their family members and fellow practitioners being tortured and killed in China.
Although the persecution continues unabated, I believe the protest site has been effective in many ways, not the least of which is that the Beijing dictatorship is embarrassed by it. That's proven by the fact that they've been pressuring all and sundry to have it removed. As part of their propaganda, they've told the Chinese people that Falun Gong is banned worldwide. So it annoys them when Chinese tourists come here and see the appeal outside the consulate.
I think most Vancouverites can see that this is a human rights issue, and would be prepared to 'tolerate' the site as long as it takes for the persecution to come to an end. Maybe you can find it in your heart to do the same.
Posted by: Murphy | 2006-06-13 1:13:04 PM
D.J.McGuire,
Hu Jintao has been lobbied by the Arab nation so hard, they could not see the writing on the Caliphat for it has been pulled over their faces in true, compassionate and tolerant burka style.
The problem with discussions around Falun Gong, is once you have got past compassion, truth and tolerance, there is nothing more to discuss, so everyone, by default, discusses China.
Well, if you want to discuss China, then just say so. But that is not what the sign issue is all about. And the sign issue is also not about Falun Gong doing their protest. And it is also not about human rights, because no one has told them they cannot demonstrate for themselves or human rights in Canada or anywhere else in the west.
With all due respect, they are free to advocate for human rights all the way op the yin/yang should they so choose. Good on them!
The sign issue is about a perfectly normal Canadian law, that is being applied in a perfectly normal way, by a democratically elected Mayor, in a democratic city, in a democratic province, in a democratic nation, called Canada.
And Canada, true north strong and free, does not mean that anyone who comes along has the right to impose their way on us, at the expence of our democracy and the rules and laws which we have created in our combined democratic way.
In relation to who has sold whom what, you forgot to mention that the giant nation China is more interested in oil than it is whatever else is going on in the middle east. The fact the Hu has no knowledge that the name "Palestine" began with the British mandate, goes to show he desperately needs an education in facts surrounding the Israel, and the right of Israel to exist. After all, Israel has existed longer than China herself, and China was also under British mandate. And as with Israel, China has a history. The palestinians cannot say they have a dynsaty or a kingdom, as there has never ever been a ruler of palestine. What a joke!
And China should really pay close attention to the nuclear whatever in Iran, whether power or weapons, because the trade winds have been blowing in the direction of China for as long as humans have measured wind. This means that if Iran makes a mistake, (as terrorists seem to have the propensity to make serious mistakes and blow themselves up), it is not everything West of Iran that will feel the literal fallout.
Back to Britain.
But the sign issue is also not about British mandate. It is a democratic descision, that has been made, and a very small one at that. I suppose you might think about discussing the virtues of the democratic state in relation to Communist China, but then we would be here until Chinese New Year.
And further to this, if there ever was a pole of Chinese citizens in China, about how much money should be spent on Falun Gong, I doubt they would give Falun Gong one RED coin.
And why should they?
As for genocide, as a few have mentioned, in China, that is a very long long shot. HAve they tortured and killed? That is something very different and not genocide. Last I checked, China population is still going up. True genocides mean populations go radically down, and not from inability to figure out how babies are born. They have over 1.3 Billion people in China. You could fit about 420 Canada's (plus or minus a few illegal immigrants) into that population.
My vote stays for signs down. Falun Gong can practice what they want, on their own time. When it comes to the running of our country, then they should get themselves legitimate, and assimilate, instead of doing whatever they do, getting more than everyone else, and then complaining that they have been badly treated, when that is so absolutely false.
Over to Makina,
Canada is a democratic nation. Oppossing the sign has nothing to do with a position on Communist China or oppossing crimes against humanity.
And you are right that CCP values are not our values as we are a capitalist society. And yet there are many Chinese values, that are shared with the majority of Canadians. China is not just about Communism. It has a growing capitalist base, as well as an education system. And yet the sign, once again, has nothing to do with that at all.
So, since that is another issue, why don't you write to Ezra, and ask him to start another thread on China, with facts and articles substantiating your opposition to CCP without confusing it with the sign issue in Vancouver. I am certain there would be a fabulous debate on many aspects, and I would look forward to reading the comments.
And in addition, if a group has been getting a free ride, and getting donations, then maybe they can take their sign to some other location? There are always other places for signs.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-13 2:15:32 PM
Lady,
The blue wall has all to do with the commies and nothing to do with the bylaws. You might have missed the point that Falun Gong has permission to be there to protest -- the bylaw issue becomes a non-issue.
But the real issue at hand is the fact that the Mayor is acting on behalf of the commies, and hiding behind a crackdown on bylaws, to order Falun Gong that it's time to pack up. It's just a detour, or camouflage tactic used so that he still looks like a nice guy who's just trying to protect bylaws.
But in fact he is protecting the interest of the CCP. So that's what's really behind it!
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-13 2:46:46 PM
You folks can't see forest for the trees. Preferred destination status and increased trade ties will do more to democratize China than a million FG signs. FG's tactics are demonstrably counter-productive to their cause and are moving them further from their strategic goals. Their approach might work in the west, but China is not the west.
Posted by: db | 2006-06-13 3:17:59 PM
Makina,
If that were true, then every time a government did something that one of the minority groups disagreed with, as it got in the way of their protest, then that arguement could be used.
Your position is that the protest against the commies, specifically on the massive blue sign, takes priority over our democracy. I am not even going to beg to differ, as there is simply no need whatsoever for any democratic people to have to make an arguement that their democratically elected officials must first cow to a protest, before they exercise their duly elected powers and uphold our laws.
You also ignore the fact that Falun Gong is free to move it's sign to a legal location. Canadians agree with protest in general, so long as it does not break any of our laws.
We are all different. What binds us together as Canadians is the fact that we agree to uphold our laws. We may not always agree with the way our laws are written, but democracy means that if you don't like it, you can get yourself elected and make the changes you want. And then if you do that, be prepared that every single consulate in Canada will have massive signs in front of their buildings. And maybe there will be big signs infront of the legislatures of each Province, and maybe a few hundred in front of the Parliament buildings.
You know that there will not be many people agreeing with signs of all kinds everywhere.
You know that any signs as such would be torn down.
And in a free and democractic society, things still have to proceed with order and good government. That is the truth, and if Falun Gong cannot take the truth, then maybe they need to revisit what it is they mean by truth. People are free to empathize with Falun Gong all they want, and even to practice Falun Gong should they so choose. They can fill their boots with it, if they want. They can bath in it all they want. They can eat, drink and live Falun Gongm 24 hours a day, and seven days a week, if they so choose. And yet none of that will change any fact as it is in relation to the power and authority of our state of its own laws.
As for your claim that Mayor Sullivan is cowing to chinese pressure, you can say that if you want, and he has already spoken, and it is just another example of how you feel your way, or the falun Gong way, and your cause, should trump our Canadian democratic institutions and Canadian Laws. There are a few other groups out there who would like to trump Canadian laws. If Falun Gong gets that right, then everyone will want that right. Under our consitution, Falun Gong has the right to freedom of association, but that that right only has power as duly recognized under our state, and our state's authority. It may be just a sign bylaw that is being broken to you, but to the rest of us who would like to see democracy work and not be walked all over by every Tom Dick and Harry who comes along, it is our laws that are being trompled on!
I remain with Mayor Sullivan, and hope he and his council does not cow under pressure.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-13 3:35:49 PM
db,
FG exists as a group whose aim is to install it's ways in China. If that were really good for China, then the Chinese would embrace it as a people. In spite of the fact that the Chinese people do not practice a democratically ellected form of government, their state is still their state, and in the way that they have made it. Should they evolve into a democratic state one day, it will be in and of their own choosing, and not because of a sign that is in our face. That they have made leaps forward in establishing markets that are freer today than they were before, means that China is changeing. Given the sheer numbers of their population, one small mistake could result in the starvation of hundreds of millions of people, or One fifth of the world's population. I do not envy the task and challenges that they have ahead of them, and hope they will purge their ranks of wrongs the same as all nations must do that.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-13 3:45:59 PM
db,
From 1992 until the persecution started in 1999, the Chinese did embrace Falun Gong, precisely because they saw that it was good and word spread about its miraculous healing powers. There were around 100 million practitioners then, which is no small number even in China. When Jiang Zemin discovered this, being a paranoid cummunist he freaked out, believing there was some threat to his power and jealous that there more people doing Falun Gong than there were in the communist Party (60 million). Apparently nobody in the Politburo at the time saw the need to outlaw Falun Gong; word has it that many of them had begun practicing themselves. But Jiang got his way, and kicked off the persecution, thinking he'd have the practice wiped out in three months. Seven years later the torturing and killing continue unabated, causing untold suffering to thousands if not millions of innocent people.
Since the aim of the persecution is to "eradicate" Falun Gong (Jiang's word) it fits the description of a genocide, because they're trying to wipe out an entire group of people, and they've been pretty successful at it so far. So it's no small thing. And practitioners in the western world who have benefited enormously both physically and spiritually from Falun Gong do all they can to try to raise awareness about the plight of their fellow practitioners in China, who have no voice. This is why the signs at the consulate should remain, not only in Vancouver but in all the other free countries where the practitioners maintain vigils at the Chinese consulates and embassies. It's one of the few 'tools' they have. One of these days, something gotta give....
Posted by: Murphy | 2006-06-13 10:46:48 PM
Murphy,
According to one of the posters, they keep no records of membership, therefore numbers are only speculative.
And Falun Gong is a practice, not a people. They are everywhere, therefore it is impossible to destroy. It is not that the cause is not real, if it is worth anything, it is more than signs. If it is just signs, then it is nothing.
No sign could have ever stopped me from being who I am, and loving the almighty.
If there are murders occurring, then China would be killing their own. This would therefore constitute a crime against humanity.
But still, where are the references. people have been discussing this, and yet there are no actual references.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-13 11:31:14 PM
In 1998 a Government survey revealed that there were 70 millions chinese practising Falun Gong in China.
The CCP is killing their own citizens and harassing them overseas as well. Especially minorities and religious groups. Their history of killing their own people go way back to half a century. Amazingly enough this killing spree has gone unchecked until the Falun Gong said 'stop the killing'.
The evidence of the persecution is out there and here are some helpful links to check out--there are many more. Human rights groups have worked very hard to document this persecution. It's a real challenge knowing that the dictators can be pretty quick at covering up their crimes against humanity.
UN Envoy Reports Widespread Torture in Communist China
http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/0/677C1943FAA14D67C12570CB0034966D?opendocument
Justice for Falun Gong
http://www.flgjustice.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=49
Persecution Background:
http://www.fofg.org/persecution/persecution_bknd.php
Falun Gong practitioners tell of horrible conditions in the Laogai
http://www.laogai.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=2491
Supporting Human Rights in China
http://www.shric.org/
Falun Gong Human Rights Working Group
http://www.flghrwg.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1"
World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong
http://www.zhuichaguoji.org/en/INDEX.PHP
Global Mission to Rescue Persecuted Falun Gong Practitioners
http://www.globalrescue.net/gmr/
Voices of Support: Non-Governmental Organizations
http://www.fofg.org/voices/voices_ngos.php?cat_id=43
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-14 12:41:00 AM
The best link of them all is this one:
The Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party
http://www.ninecommentaries.com
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-14 12:43:22 AM
Three more links related to Canadian Prof. Kunlun Zhang's story of being tortured in China and rescued by AI and the help of Canadians.
Statement by Kunlun Zhang, Canadian Falun Gong practitioner recently released from a Chnese prison
http://hrreports.faluninfo.net/DisplayAnArticlePrint.asp?ID=2785
Former Chinese President Sued in Canada
http://www.fofg.org/news/news_story.php?doc_id=892
Canada: Helping prevent torture through the inspection of detention centres
http://www.amnesty.ca/take_action/actions/canada_ratify_opcat.php
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-14 1:01:12 AM
Lady,
Falun Gong is only for people who want to practise. If people don't want to practise then they don't- It is persecuted because Chinese Communist leaders cannot "own or control" it. So who is trying to "install it's ways in China"?
China is still run by the Communist Party because they have brainwashed citizens to fear the CCParty. Who will stand up for the Human rights when -if they do-they will be taken from their family, threatened, tortured, and possibly killed?
China has, in past, always "loosened up" on the people-when it best suits their interest. But as past has shown they always tighten it up when it gets to loose. China, economically speaking, does not follow communism but in regards to controlling the people they practise it.
I think it very naive to think the CCPArty has so much power and control as to determine the fate of millions of people. If they starve it will be because the food could not be grown- isn't that the result of nature itself. Historically the CCParty's polices and campaigns have created most of the starvation.
Posted by: Corinne | 2006-06-14 1:20:15 AM
I agree, Lady, that it is impossible to destroy a practice or a person's belief, but that fact hasn't dawned on the Chinese communist party yet--or if it has they're ignoring it. And it's not just the Falun Gong that they're persecuting, although that's the only group they want to completely eradicate. They also harass, torture and persecute Christians who don't practice according to the rules laid down by the state (and there are millions in that category), political dissidents, writers and journalists who step outside the lines, the Uigher Muslim group, AIDS activists, and anyone else they don't happen to like.
Posted by: Murphy | 2006-06-14 10:54:37 AM
Just the kind of debate I like.
It's about something that's actually happening right now and it's something we can do something about right now.
China, with its recent embracement of the free market economy, is slowly moving from a Marxist regime to a National Socialist-style regime.
It still practises social engineering prevalent in both systems, yet with a quasi-capitalist industrial sector still maintains a certain amount of control of economic production.
Right now, it's somewhere between communism and fascism.
Keep the wall up in Vancouver!
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-06-14 11:10:43 AM
Lady, say you and are Falun Gong practitioners and we are being tortured to give up our beliefs... I can't stand one more electric shock, or one more gang rape or one more electric baton up my vagina... and so I recant my beliefs.... so they they say ok if you really mean it, get your friend Lady to recant as well. By that time I am losing my mind because not only have I been tortured for the last week/month/year I have been deprived of sleep and am losing my mind... so I start to torture you and know that I will only be able to go home after I got you to recant as well and so I have become especially visious. Maybe I finally get you to break and recant. Then before we go home we have to go on the state-run tv (the only kind in China)and thank the kindness of the CCP for freeing me from this E--- C---! Even after we go home we are monitored to make sure we don't go back.... Can you imagine how you would feel afterwards? Something that you believed in so strongly and were forced to sign away. We in the west have no idea of the barbarous ways of the CCP. It is called soul-murder. You have a choice - you get to choose what stays alive - your body or your soul. Weren't the Christian martyrs given the same choice. Sign away your beliefs or be fed to the lions or boiled in oil. Think about it.
Lian
Posted by: Lian | 2006-06-14 11:20:45 AM
Lian,
You play psychological hardball with me, so I am going to give it back to you as hard as you have given, regardless of what I think about the illegality of torture and rape: which I agree, of course, are seriouse crimes!
You say that Vancouver must keep a sign up?
Compared to how the terrorists treat people, by cutting off their heads; shooting them in the groin; blowing them up with their own bodies; killing their sisters because they looked at a man; stoning their own people who have committed adultry; kidnapping people and holding them hostage with impossible demands, then killing them and droping their headless bodies for others to find; threatening to kill people every day of every year; killing babies and young children; shooting mothers with babies in their wombs when their babies almost fully developed and the mothers are clearly pregnant, and turning the rest of the children in their dead presence into hamburger, where it takes days to pick up all the pieces; blowing up buses full of people; blowing up restaurants full of people; blowing up malls full of people; and blowing up schools full of people; blowing up government offices and assasinating people with sniper fire from afar; threatening to kill 6,000,000 people, your complainst, though terrible, pales in comparison to the terrorists of islamofacism.
And I never said I agreed with how the CCP treats people who practice Falun Gong. Falun Gong is a highly marketable practice.
Tell you what.
You tell China that Falun Gong members have added some more stuff to your political plate, including the sufferring of the Israelis at the hands of the terrorists, as well as a western position on Syria, Iran, and whatever other nation holds a negative position on peace loving Israel, where they Jews, the therefore indigenous peoples are returning home to their rightful homelands, and I will consider your position on the wall in Vancouver. Chances are you will never change the followers of Falun Gong to see anything but what you have meantioned. So, I doubt that will never happen.
Yet until Falun Gong starts towing a real western human rights position, against terrorists, they and you are causes that cannot pre-empt a decision in a democratic nation, that is not in and of the agreement of those who have been lawfully elected by the people within this nation. Although your cause is righteous, so is the cause of freedom and democracy. Yes there is overlap, but Falun Gong is not the authority in these parts of the world.
If you get smart, you will use this opportunity to get more money, to place signs all over the place.
And thanks for the references.
Lady
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-14 9:47:03 PM
Let's put our conscience first and think about the betterment of humanity, isn't that what the appeal is about? Yes, it's about saving lives and clarifying the truth to all people about the CCP's atrocities.
Mayor Sullivan, after 5 years of letting people know the truth about the CCP, and 0 years of the BC government's intervention, I would say: "you are wrong".
Posted by: Jesse | 2006-06-14 10:53:21 PM
Hi Lady,
I just read what you wrote and I appreciate your open-mindedness and your willingness to consider what others are saying. Actually I have learned a lot from some of the things you have written that I had not thought about before. We learn from each other which is what this process is all about.
Thanks,
Lian
Posted by: Lian | 2006-06-14 11:16:48 PM
Jesse,
Removing a sign does not mean what you think it means. He, as Mayor, has every right and duty to uphold the simple bylaw. Time for you to rethink the strategy, as clearly it has failed. If the purpose was just to have that sign, then it appears the aim has digressed.
Lian,
Sure appreciate your contributions. Falun Gong practitioners are free to practice in Canada, to believe in what they do, to associate, to think, and be Canadians, if and when they attain Canadian citizenship, or are converts. Truth, compassion and tolerance embody much of what many Canadians attempt to live. Well, that is what it looks like, but it could also be that intolerance takes far too much energy away from enjoying the good life.
I'll be watching Falun Gong for refreshing positive innovations in the near future.
Lady
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-15 10:13:57 AM
"The sign is ugly." This is what someone here has been saying.
Imagine this.
One day you are walking along the river. Suddenly you see someone falls into a river. At this moment, a person standing on the bank is yelling, "Help! Help! Someone has fallen into the river!"
Are you going to stop the person saying "your voice are not beautiful! You should not yell. Your clothes are not decent enough! You are not good-looking". Will you do this? Will you?
Bylaws or ugliness is just an excuse.
Posted by: patrice | 2006-06-16 3:22:21 PM
Today, Friday the 16th, Falun Gong practitioners are holding a peaceful appeal in front of the Vancouver Chinese Consulate on Granville. Please come and sit by our side.
Sit by my side
Closing your eyes
Together in silence
We call for
The end of torturing
The end of killing
The end of the persecution
Compassion grows in our hearts
Together in silence
Our wishes can make a difference
This poem was translated into many languages and appeared beside Falun Gong practitioners holding peaceful appeals in front of Chinese embassies and consulates around the world.
Over five years ago, not long after Jiang Zemin's faction and the Chinese Communist Party started the persecution of Falun Gong, Falun Gong practitioners have continuously appeared in front of Chinese embassies and consulates in
several countries. They meditate, practice the Falun Gong exercises, or distribute flyers to passers-by to clarify the truth about Falun Gong and the persecution in China.
More than five years have passed, and more and more people have joined us. Our peaceful sit-in protests have extended to Chinese embassies and consulates in dozens of countries across four continents. Those who come to appeal are from
all over the world and from all ages. Out of a sense of conscience and following the principles of Truthfulness,Compassion and Forbearance, we gather voluntarily in front of Chinese embassies or consulates after work or school and appeal to the Chinese regime to stop the persecution of
Falun Gong.
Whether in cold weather with snow or during the hot summer with temperature soaring, people see the practitioners continue their peaceful appeal. We come to the Chinese consulate not for ourselves, but so that other people,including the staff working in the consulate, can come to
know the facts of the persecution. Our goal is to end this persecution that is based only on lies, fabrications,torture and threats and enticement, which involves the whole Chinese population.
We appeal in front of consulate is not because we oppose China, but on the contrary, because we love China. We see that those who claim to represent the Chinese people's interests instead kill Chinese people and damage morality and humanity in their persecution of Falun Gong
practitioners who follow Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance.
Passers-by change from apathy to understanding, offering support and expressing respect. Over the course of the days and nights in front of the Chinese consulate, Western and Chinese people have stopped to see the poster boards and
catch news that was not covered by media in China. Those who learned the truth asked for more literature to give to their friends, and some have even started to practice Falun Gong.
"Please sit by our side, please sit by our side, together in silence, together we call for the end of torturing, the end of killing." The torturing and killing have been going on for more than five years. Nevertheless, we uphold goodness, we are still appealing to all kind-hearted people with
uncompromising courage. Through our more than five-year silent persistence, we have expressed our heart-felt faith. Although the evil may act violently for a while, the dark cloud will not block the sun forever and the viciousness will not shut out the brightness of Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance. The day will eventually
come when the evil in the human world is completely cleansed by the force of Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance.
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-16 3:23:33 PM
This is a very insightful dialogue, but I respectfully disagree with some of the posts. Clearly, the appeal site IS working.
Were it not, Falun Gong would have packed everything away years ago.
One point that hasn’t been emphasized is that the appeal site has had verbal permission from the mayor’s office for five years. For the mayor to suddenly decide to have it removed, especially after being a voice of support prior to becoming mayor, shows the Chinese government has gotten to him. The previous mayor said as much, and although he didn’t care for the site, he left it alone.
This is not about bylaws. To make this discussion about the enforcement of bylaws trivializes the issue.
If the mayor really cared about bylaws, he would not be selectively choosing which ones to enforce. And if the appeal site really were a problem for the city, Falun Gong never would have gotten verbal permission in the first place.
It’s important to note that until now, Falun Gong hasn’t broken any bylaw. It has had permission for five years. In those five years, countless people have learned about the persecution in China. Many Chinese tourists have gone back to mainland China and spread the word to their peers, and practitioners have been protected. Thus, the appeal site is saving people who would otherwise be tortured and killed. It’s working.
I’m going to directly address some comments from Lady, because I’m sure there is a portion of people out there that think similarly. I’d like them to consider my responses.
>If you read about the cult Falun Gong, you will clearly see that their
>aim is to make the state of china embrace them in every way, shape and
>form, including all of their principles. And not just a little bit
>here and there. They want their state to only embrace their
>principles. Last time we had a group like that try to run Canada,
>they said we should all practice yogic flying. (Natural law party)
This is incorrect. First, I’ve done my research for 6 years, and Falun Gong is not a cult. Please see this website (in its beginning stages),
http://misconceptions.50webs.com
Falun Gong has no political interest. It just wants the persecution to stop. The Communist government harassed practitioners before the persecution, and all they wanted was to be left in peace to do the exercises in parks. That’s it. And when the persecution ends, and the criminals are brought to justice, you’ll only see Falun Gong in parks, and the occasional parade, just like before 1999. There is no, nor will there ever be, a Falun Gong political party. It’s quite clear in the teachings.
>The problem with discussions around Falun Gong, is once you have got
>past compassion, truth and tolerance, there is nothing more to
>discuss, so everyone, by default, discusses China.
Actually, you have just negated your first comment. Since Falun Gong does not solicit the practice, most practitioners will just give you a basic overview of what it is, and then talk about the persecution—because we want it to stop! And awareness will help do that.
>And Canada, true north strong and free, does not mean that anyone
>who comes along has the right to impose their way on us, at the
>expence of our democracy and the rules >and laws which we have
>created in our combined democratic way.
Great, then I’m sure you’ll agree that the Chinese Communist Government does not have the right to impose our mayor to enforce Canadian bylaws which have not been broken.
>You also ignore the fact that Falun Gong is free to move it's sign
>to a legal location. Canadians agree with protest in general, so
>long as it does not break any of our laws.
You’re forgetting that the reason the wall is there is because the Chinese Consulate is there. It’s to pressure the Communist Government to stop the persecution. The wall isn’t going to go in front of a Starbucks. And it hasn’t broken any law.
Then you say that Falun Gong is intolerant because they only care about themselves, and that if we get to put a wall up, so should everyone else. These are two points, and I think they both result from a lack of understanding and communication.
First, Falun Gong certainly does not only think about themselves. I have a pile of Falun Gong literature that also takes the time to go through the persecution of Christians, Tibetans, and other groups targeted by the CCP. Of course, most of the information is about Falun Gong. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I wouldn’t expect a Tibetan flyer to talk much about other groups.
Also, I am not going to compare fundamentalist Islamic terrorism to the persecution of Falun Gong. It is difficult to compare, because terrorism is done out in the open (blowing up schools, busses, etc.), while the persecution of Falun Gong is highly secretive. A Chinese military insider revealed that not only is there a concentration camp with 6,000 Falun Gong practitioners being kept alive to have their organs harvested, but there are 32 of these camps all over China, with the largest holding 180,000 people. So potentially we have half a million practitioners in organ-harvesting labor camps, and we can’t even confirm it because the Chinese government has such a tight grip on the country. Now add the hundreds of thousands of practitioners in labor camps, brainwashing camps and psychiatric “hospitals”, and another 1-2 million in prisons where they are beaten every day, and over 150 torture methods are used on them. Add the tens of millions of practitioners that are in fear for their lives, under house arrest, or get fired from their job or can’t get into university because all of the entrance exams have a question “Do you practice Falun Gong”. Kidnappings, forced abortions, and everything else on your list are commonplace (minus the public bombings, which is of course horrible) And then add the fact that there is a police division called the “610 Office” which has complete control over every other branch of police and governmental department in order to enforce the persecution. But, because they don’t use documents with official seals, it is difficult to trace their actions. All of this and more, check the UN reports.
In order to understand the purpose of the wall, it’s important to understand the scope of the persecution. It directly targets tens of millions of practitioners, by a government that has killed 80 million of its own citizens since coming to power. There are not many Falun Gong practitioners outside of mainland China, not enough to cover processing the information of the persecution of all practitioners. The only thing a murderer fears is being exposed. Isn’t exposing the persecution of Falun Gong going to help other groups inside China?
This argument is like saying, “people in X region of the world have no right to protest for human rights until they take up every other cause.”
Other groups haven’t put up 24-hour appeal signs because 1) They haven’t got permission 2) they haven’t tried 3) they are unable to put together a 24-hour team. To respond to the argument of “If Falun Gong does it, then everyone will want to”, the fact is, the appeal site has been up for 5 years, with permission, and no one else in Vancouver has put anything up. Also, it’s not just a sign that was just put there—there is always at least one person on site.
Cheers,
Matthew (Victoria)
Posted by: Matthew | 2006-06-16 3:40:33 PM
This is an interesting article in today's paper.
Vancouver Sun: June 16, 2006 - Democracy sometimes isn't pretty, Mr. Mayor: Sullivan has heightened vantage of mayor's chair but can't see beyond the limit of his little laws
________________________________________
It is the habit of Sam Sullivan, Vancouver's vague and boyish mayor, to explain how being in a wheelchair has informed many things in his life, from his take on crack addicts and sex workers, to welfare assistance and living in poverty. Sullivan -- and I loosely paraphrase another idiosyncratic leader who I never had much time for, either -- feels the downtrodden's pain, having felt it himself.
But Sullivan sits in another chair now, the mayor's. And the altitude change must have gone to his head because it was from that chair's lofty heights that Sullivan declared he was cleaning up the litter on our streets, namely, the Falun Gong.
Enough was enough, he declared. After five years of keeping vigil outside the Chinese consulate-general, and meditating like statues in their little shack, the Falun Gong had to go. Sullivan was going to make Granville Street safe for, well, if not democracy, then for . . . um . . . pedestrians! And motorists! Who were put off by posters and Chinese people weirdly meditating on the sidewalk!
If you are a journalist in this town, you should be intimately accustomed to the Falun Gong, since they send out e-mails about every five minutes decrying their persecution by the Chinese government. It is a curse to be on their mailing list.
But they are also harmless, and their message is always on point, which is:
We are being persecuted, tortured and incarcerated by the Chinese government for our beliefs.
Not: We want to bring down the Chinese government.
Not: We wish to embarrass the Chinese government.
Just: Could the Chinese government please stop persecuting us?
The Chinese government, and I use the term loosely, labels the Falun Gong a "sect," which is doublespeak for "loony." This is a wonderful irony, coming from a business-suited thug-ocracy whose military leaders casually discuss in public the possibility of a nuclear exchange with the U.S., and then just as casually calculate how many of their own citizens they might lose in such an exchange -- the weight of numbers being on their side, of course.
This is also the Chinese government whose own way of dealing with litter is sweeping it away with tanks and AK-47s. Tiananmen Square is spotless today. No weird meditators or posters there, much to the relief of pedestrians.
Sullivan's impulses aren't as savage, of course, but more firmly rooted in law. That is, he only wishes to apply the law equally and across the board, as banal and utilitarian as the law may be. It is that very banality that demands the removal of the Falun Gong.
Why, they've built their shack on public property! Technically, they're littering! The same law would be -- nay, must be -- applied to helmetless bicycle riders, False Creek boat squatters, reckless users of noisy weed-whackers, the wanton discarders of candy bar wrappers, etc., etc., etc. -- in other words, The Nitpick Level of Law Enforcement. Sullivan wants to clean up Vancouver, literally. So why should the Falun Gong be allowed to maintain what one newspaper editorial bravely called an "eyesore" in front of the Chinese consulate-general?
Well, for one thing, one could argue, sometimes democracy isn't pretty. It can be hard on the eyes. For another thing, a democratic government committed to encouraging democratic impulses should sometimes let its moral compass dictate its actions, not the frigging letter of the law.
Nor, it could also be argued, should those democratic impulses come with past-due dates. Five years? One thinks of the early Christians, and those centuries of their being led off to the Colosseum for lion feed. Or the civil rights protesters in the U.S. who, it should be noted, were breaking the law of the land at the time. It took more than five years for them to get to the front of the bus. And as I remember, there were actually some people in the U.S. federal government who were on their side. They saw the big picture.
Sullivan? More of a detail man, I guess. Who might have bought crack for an addict and given money to sex trade workers but will keep your streets clear of dangerous shacks.
Who knows littering when he sees it, but not purpose.
Who has the heightened vantage of the mayor's chair, but can't see beyond the limit of his pitiful little laws.
[email protected] or 604-605-2905
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-16 5:59:13 PM
See no evil
North Shore News: June 16, 2006 - VANCOUVER Mayor Sam Sullivan's decision this week to remove the long-standing Falun Gong protest shelter on Granville Street is disturbing not for what it means to one small protest, but for what it symbolizes in terms of our country's attitude as a whole.
By dismantling the structure - which has caused little trouble in the five years it has been there - for violating city bylaws, Sullivan is
demonstrating that he puts aesthetics above larger issues.
His attitude, sadly, is reflective of that held by our nation as a whole.
China's habitual violation of civil and human rights is no secret. But while our country loudly criticizes the abuses of other, smaller powers, we remain markedly silent about the behaviour of the rising giant across the Pacific.
Vancouver's planned port expansion is testament to the eagerness with which we are embracing our new friendship.
And the Falun Gong protest, with its rickety structure and unsightly posters, is an uncomfortable reminder of what we are ignoring about our new friend. By effectively shutting the protest down, we are allowing ourselves to hide from an unpleasant truth: when we have nothing invested in another nation, we quite happily call out its every misstep, but when a nation is closely tied to our own economic well-being, we are much more hesitant to criticize.
That the Falun Gong images and the protest shelter are offensive should not be of real concern to us. And it should not be of concern to Vancouver's mayor.
Rather, it is when these things cease to offend that we should begin to worry in earnest.
published on 06/16/2006
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-18 12:00:02 PM
Makina and Matthew,
So, you can only protest your way?
And if that way breaks laws, that does not matter?
And if there is an authority, you have the right to over-ride that? And then insult that authority? You find it acceptable to insult the Mayor of Vancouver? To redicule our laws?
I am oppossed to the violation of human rights, and hope that you are able to work out something between Falun Gong members and the CCP. I really do. And I also hope you can get creative and do something that does not break laws, especially when Vancouverites have been so generous. And five years has been an excellent demonstration of tolerance, compassion and in truth, so if you don't appreciate that, then you are going to loose some people's backing.
Meanwhile, none of the rights of Falun Gong have been violated in Canada whatsoever. And you can go on believing what you want about the Mayor, by portraying him as some kind of uncaring person, but that appears to be a gross confabulation of political convenience.
And Matthew, you have the right to your opinion and freedom of thought as much as the next person.
You say CCP has murdered 80 million people since it started 56 years ago? And so what you are saying is that there is a political reason for the existence of the so-called spiritual group. If the group were just spiritual, there would be no interest in politics or political action. But as long as I have heard about Falun Gong, it has been political. If you deny this, then where does this sit in relation to one of the most fundamental principles of Falun Gong? Is saying the words "truth" a matter of convenience? Your arguement has done nothing to add to the words already shared by the Falun Gong. I hope you see your hypocracy and yet I highly doubt it.
And no one denies Falun Gong the right to protest, just not with that illegal sign after all this time. Many Canadians are doing what they can do free the Falun Gong from persecution and some have only just heard about Falun Gong. May I suggest that if it is the interest of yours to help them succeed in being freed from this alleged persecution, that you think more like an asian and less like a Canadian. If you knew the way it is seen from an asian persepctive, you would understand that locking horns with CCP is a formula for disaster. Since you do not know that, and do not understand, you have to attack people who stand up for democracy here in Canada. It works here. We Canadians are all different people, and we do not always agree on matters, and yet there is one thing we are suppossed to agree on, and that is, that we respect the laws of our land, for the sake of peace and good order.
Loose that and there is no where else to go but down.
To say we do not fight against injustices is also a slap in the face. We place hard earned tax-payers dollars into fighting terrorism and injustices around the world, and billions into liberal social safety-net here in Canada. If the sign is all that important, you can find another home for it rather than braying.
Posted by: Lady | 2006-06-19 2:48:36 PM
Dear Lady,
Many years ago, the Falun Gong group met several times with the Van City Engineering Dep. to work out the best way to put up a permanent banner at the Communist Consulate site because the other one was always vandalized. The measurements for the hut were agreed upon by the City's Eng. Dept. and FG but unfortunately nothing was ever put down in writing. A convenient oversight on the part of the City--it is possible.
With all due respect,Falun Gong would like the present administration to honour the permission granted by the previous permission. A non-issue really. A written permit with a board of variance exemption would be more than enough--routine red tape.
To make this story clearer it's worth mentioning that Mayor Sullivan was a supporter of Falun Gong before he was elected by the same people that he plans to sue on the basis of bylaw infraction. What is wrong with this picture I ask you? Why the sudden change of heart since he became mayor?
Lady, if you still think that the Consulate has nothing to do with this then you still believe in the tooth fairy. As far as FG is concerned, this is not about fighting with City Hall or with the CCP, but for the sake of opposing a genocide not only in China as some of the victims are living among us and this scenario is a prime example of the tentacles of the persecution on Canadian soil.
All the Falun Gong want and their reason for the peaceful protest is for the goal of saving more people from getting hurt on account of the brutal persecution carried out by the CCP, whether in China or in Canada. And the City had granted them this right to protest for five years now and of course they were grateful--they're just a little bit shocked for having this right taken away from them.
During all this time they didn't create any disturbance there whatsoever. The cops always looked out for them and often told them that they too were getting calls from the Consulate who wanted the site shut down. At one point the cops even had to say to them: "This is Canada!"
So, don't be naive, the CCP's interference has been there since day one. For one thing, in this case, the Consulate is breaking the rule as they should not interfere in the affairs of the country that they're in. And this has been a pattern with Communist Consulates in Canada and throughout the world as far as harassing Falun Gong goes and harassing officials. Check that WOIPFG report - "Chinese Officials' Activities on Canadian Soil" and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.upholdjustice.org/English.2/InterferenceInCanada.htm
The fact that the perpetrators (CCP) are from Beijing does not intimidate the Falun Gong the least, as you can see they will keep up their open-style protest until the killing stops. But it sure intimidates the Mayor who is in denial about this whole thing.
Maybe you would take a different approach Lady, but in this case the Falun Gong are dealing with terrorism from the top, and that is the Chinese Communist Party as we know it. If you take their abuse lying down and bury your head in the sand they then you're fried.
The Falun Gong have chosen to speak out about the atrocities that they've suffered. Their voice of justice will someday be heard by more than a handful of people. But for now nobody wants to listen to their cries for help because they all seem to be distracted by the money prospects in China and look the other way when it comes to human rights abuse. This is why a protest site like this one becomes crucial for an oppressed group like FG.
This is what the defectors had to say about the Chinese influence in Canada.
China Spy Report Focuses on Vancouver Falun Gong Appeal
"Sheng Xue, a best-selling Chinese author and freelance writer in Toronto, said that if the contents of the secret document is confirmed true, it would amount to either the Canadian or Vancouver government purposefully aiding the Chinese government in violating Canadian principles and values such as human rights and democracy in exchange for trade interests."
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:eTbH0WdH-N4J:www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-6-19/29643.html+hao+falun+gong+vancouver+epoch+times&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1
Chinese Defector Tells of Government Plot
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:GuYcdn3le0oJ:www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-6-23/29760.html+hao+falun+gong+vancouver+epoch+times&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=2
What would you do in their shoes? I hope you have some good suggestions but most of all I hope that you're not suggesting that we do nothing.
Edmund Burke said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Posted by: Makina | 2006-06-19 5:44:36 PM
The comments to this entry are closed.