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Saturday, May 27, 2006

Who are we fighting in the war on terror?

Usflg_2

See it for yourself, It is just stupid, not scary though!

These are our enemies in the War on Terror. I am posting this just as a reminder to those people who often forget what type of a threat this "Radical Islamic Jihadism" can be.

Suicide Bombers gather in Tehran, by Fox News Channel

Posted by Winston on May 27, 2006 in International Affairs | Permalink

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Comments

I especially like the part where they cover up their identity, like bank robbers in the name of Allah ! Religion of Peace....uh, yeah ! I guess these few 'bad eggs' are just trying to hijack the religion of peace.

Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-05-27 2:09:47 AM


Anyone wishing to educate themselves about the threat of Islamofascism should visit this site daily.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Posted by: Terry Gain | 2006-05-27 6:10:50 AM


IRAN sent Troops (A Guard Unit) into the Sudan three weeks ago. IRAN is waging war against US,
British and all allied Forces in Iraq, they are the bomb makers, and supply weapons and money. They are behind rocket attacks on Israel. Certainly friends in Israel know who the enemy is. Their suicide bomber threat is not surprising
and you deserve a lot of credit for bringing it forward in such a graphic manner. Jack MacLeod

Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2006-05-27 7:03:39 AM


Ah, one of my favourite topics.

Terry:

If you call them jihadists, then propogandists like Osama bin Laden cannot say: ‘See, they hate us all' when you use words like Islamofascist – a term I understand was coined by Zionist interests.

Zionists also advocate gaining power through violent means.

Check the origins yourself if you don't believe me.

2) Any Muslim who claims to belong to the Religion of Peace is really a closet Christian. Bin Laden and his ilk (oooh, that felt good) must be recognized as enthusiastic followers of Islam, since they do such a good job emulating their prophet.

It's been established without question Muhammad is the only prophet who not only advocated violence against other human being, but actually carried it out. So, don't criticize them for being religious.

3) If some marauding foreign troops, backed up with occasional bombing raids on my neighbourhood, dared showed up here, I'd be the first with a rifle on my shoulder to blast their ugly heads off. Have some empathy for the innocent here.

3) Any Middle Eastern blog (Sandmonkey, Big Pharaoh .. both .org) conveys a much different impression. It's advisable you check out the thoughts of others.

These are people right in the middle of the action. They despise jihadists (a non-belligerent yet accurately descriptive term I discovered on the ME websites) as much as we do.

Again, don't take my word for it, check it out.

4) It's always a good idea to question why you believe a certain viewpoint. Don't just spout rhetoric by somebody who got you riled up. Figure out what it is that got you riled up and why you riled up. You may be surprised to find out there are those who consider you a pawn in a much bigger game than you understand at this point.

Do not give away the power you have inside you.

Turn away from evil and do good. Seek peace and pursue it.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 7:27:32 AM


The best way to stop Islam is through evangelization. The problem is that they don't tolerate freedom of religion. I believe that if freedom would be implemented through democracy, the number of Christians in muslim countries would increase sharply.

Posted by: Rémi Houle | 2006-05-27 7:40:22 AM


SYF

First and foremost they are fascists. They are inspired by Islam. Islamofascists describes them perfectly. Jihadists does not convey their methods and mentality.

As to Osama, no one should fear his propaganda reach. Even Joe Clark could win a debate with Osama.

Posted by: Terry Gain | 2006-05-27 8:02:56 AM


Terry:

Respectfully, insistence on the use of the word Islamofascist does not help our side in the propoganda war.

I think I'll stick with the defenition my friends in the Middle East use. It's much less inflammatory ... unless your intent is to give them another weapon by which they can become inflamed.

Jihadist is even more effective and does not make you sound like a prick.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 8:21:22 AM



If there is a prick here it's SYF.

You are coming across as an appeaser.

The "Slams" (an abbreviation on the correct name for our enemies 'Islamofacists') will consider your ilk (that felt good) USEFUL IDIOTS and they would be right.

We are at war there are two distinct sides. Those who fight for freedom and that would be my side and the side who is fighting to destroy freedom that would be the Slams. Whose side are you on SYF?

Straight answer please ... no leftish grayish sophisticated rhetoric.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 9:41:42 AM


Yes, Islamofascism is the problem. So why are most of the resources in Iraq? BTW, these guys look like Ninjas.

Posted by: Howard Roark | 2006-05-27 9:54:27 AM


Yes Howard, I have made that reference to ninja as well in the past.

These particular whacks look like they are trying to add a bit of pizzazz to the fashion by using what can only be described table cloths wrapped around their heads.

Just the idea of wrapping a big gingham rags all around your head is sooo cartoony. Makes the baseball cap look smart.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 10:16:09 AM


We'll have to send in Jean Claude Von Damme to take care of these guys.

Posted by: Roark | 2006-05-27 10:21:37 AM


John:

Like the Middle Eastern bloggers, I also despise jihadists.

Look deep inside yourself and you will find the source of your anger ... it got there when you accepted somebody else's deceptions. Anger can never be a byproduct of satisfying the unanswered questions through your own search.

I revealed where I got the word jihadist, from ME bloggers who are actually in the middle of the action. And I have made the decision to take away a propoganda weapon out of the hands of the enemies of freedom.

Please search yourself for where you discovered the word Islamofascists and you will finld somebody who's trying to inflame the situation rather than solving it. Then, ask yourself what is the motivation of this person ... a peaceful solution or continuation of further hostilities? Then ask yourself, why would that person want to inflame the situation.

All I'm saying if you want to defeat the enemy, those who faithfully emulate their prophet by following his example, strip them of all their weapons and defeat them on an intellectual battlefield.

The prophets I follow are Moses and Jesus. Moses, for the Ten Commandments and for delivering the Jews to the Promised Land.

Jesus, for fulfilling the Messianic prophecy of the Old Testament and giving Jews a way to ensure a peaceful existence on earth.

He clearly made a distinction between earthy and spiritual kingdoms and clearly said violence was not the way to go. There is a distinction between church and stat.

Again I ask: If Jesus is not the Messiah who delivered the Jews from their oppression, then please name the modern-day Messiah who delivered Jews to Israel.

If the question makes you feel uncomfortable, again search for the person who planted the deceptions within you and who is blinding you to the obvious truth.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 10:23:09 AM


Set you free, have you been smokin' the funny cigarettes this morning?

Posted by: Roark | 2006-05-27 10:27:25 AM


Roark:

No. Have you?

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 10:30:16 AM


Set you free,

I have read many of your posts. You are either in a manic state or your are an arrogant asshole.

You talk down to everyone. You are so sure of yourself. physopathic people have this same attitude as well as those with bi polar disorder when on the manic side of the swing. Which is it with you?

And FYI, my anger is justified even if based solely on the 9-11 attack on innocent civilians.

Islam is a religion for the rabble of the world an it looks like these are your people.

I'll throw my lot in with the Jews anytime.

Captain Goddard knew that too.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 10:49:40 AM


And SYF


That would be "psychopathic" ...

I think it is you who has the habit of harassing posters about spelling. Nevertheless, there it is.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 10:52:12 AM


To get back to the topic, the enemy is Islam.

Islam means surrender to Allah and I won't.

As long as there is Islam those who follow it will be a threat to liberal democracy.

Have you ever heard of taqiyya, Set you free?

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php

An exerpt:
In Islam the world is uncompromisingly divided between dar al-Islam, the House of Islam, and dar al-harb, the House of War, where Infidels have not yet been subjugated to Islam. “Islam is to dominate and not to be dominated” and eventually, all of the world, which belongs to Allah, will become part of dar al-Islam. The Jihad is the “struggle” to expand Islam, to create the conditions where Muslims may rule, and Islam may prevail. This Jihad to spread Islam has lasted 1350 years. It has no end, until its goal is reached, whatever periods of quiescence must be observed because of lack of effective instruments or power. Not every Muslim heart beats with passion for this idea, but around the world, a great many do. Furthermore, Infidels can never know when a Muslim who seemed so Westernized, so removed from such matters, may undergo a transformation, into a much more menacing True Believer.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-05-27 11:18:45 AM


John:

Once again, I despise the acts of the jihadists as much as anybody else. Once again, Muhammad is the only prophet who not only advocated violence but actually held a sword in dispensing it.

The sacrifice of Capt. Goddard, may her memory be eternal, does not go unnoticed, even I'm not sure how Canada's actions in Afghanistan have anything to do with Israel.

What part of my position do you not understand? I'm curious as to how you arrived at the conclusion that my ask questions first, offer opinions later approach can in any way be construed as arrogant?

Like you, 9/11 opened my then-complacent mind to the threat posed to the peace of the world.

Yet, in my relentless search for the truth since then, I have come to a somwhat different conclusion.

Before 9/11, I believed Islam was a religion like all others ... the moral equivalence trap. I have found out since that the jihadists are, in fact, the true belivers and those Muslims who say Islam is a religion of peace are closet Christians who are afraid of getting their heads hacked off by their uncles if they dare admit the truth.

And, I have received private email from Muslim Woman, who despite her best efforts has been unable to sway me from my current understanding.

During the course of my search, I went through a spiritual reawakening. I examined all options and found that the religion of my youth I had turned my back on was in fact the only one that made sense when stacked up against the others.

And, the deeper I dug into the question of the legitimacy of Israel, the more perplexed I became. I'm sensing a level of denial from defenders of the state of Israel that I have not run across anywhere in the last four years. I will explain later.

Let me lay out my conundrum in terms you may be able to understand.

I am now completely satisfied I can define where Muslims are coming from. They added absolutely nothing to the understanding of the truth 732 years after the fact.

In my search, I discovered there were a group called the Palestinian Christians whose existence is rarely acknowledged, yet who continue to live in an unbroken string since the time of Moses in the promised land.

This is how bad it is. Me, who grew up an Orthodox Christian, was unaware that descendants of the Jewish teacher Jesus still lived in Palestine. I had to figure out how it was I could be so ignorant of a fact that was right in front of my face.

In my understanding, and you are quite welcome to challenge me on any point of the debate, the Jews entered into a covenant with God that they could inhabit the Promised Land as long as they obeyed God's commandments.

Like the Samaritans and Jesus, I believe those are the first 10 commandments as outlined in the first five books of the Bible written by Moses, not the subsequent 632. Not being alive at that time, all I know is that Jesus saw little value in whatever number there were at the time and as much pointed out they were counterproductive.

So, from all this, I surmised that the Jewish people in fact defined themselves in term of a covenant with God.

Now, I'll try again to get a straight answer (no name-calling allowed) to a simple question: Name me the Messiah who delivered the promised land of Israel to the Jews in the 20th century?

Even though I hear plenty about Moses delivering the Jews from the Pharaoh, and Jesus delivering Jews from earthly power by articulating the boundaries of a spiritual kingdom, I hear little about the modern-day Messiah.

Until that question is answered, then all I can assume that the modern state of Israel is nothing but a political fraud which has absolutely nothing to do with the proud religious heritage it gave the world as a gift through Jesus.

BTW, before you give me the stuff about six million Jews dying at the hands of an anti-Semitic Europe, let me present you with another fact about me.

My father's grandfather was Jewish. Am I pure enough or unworthy because my blood is now too diluted?

Both my parents escaped from the Soviet Union, whose Antichrist government led by Josef Stalin either slaughtered directly, starved or led to their deaths on the battlefield some 20 million of my ‘tribe.'

I could present a very valid case of victimization at the hand of the godless commies and in pure numbers, 333% more of my ilk (yee haw) were slaughtered than your ilk.

If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

How long does anybody want to carry on feeling sorry for themselves, anyway?

Like the soldier on Juno Beach who saw his buddies around him falling like flies when they got a bullet between their eyes, we have a choice.

Do we cower like children or do we carry on?

Thank God those survivors had the courage to carry on and fight against another socialist tyrant.

You may think I'm nuts, and that's fine.

I thing you're ignorant of the facts. Not somebody else's interpretation, the facts.

Get up off your intellectually slothful asses and do some research for yourself.

Ask hard, pointed questions instead of being led around like a bunch of sheep.

I guarantee you. What I've done in the past four years – for myself and by myself – is a truly liberating experience. I would recommend it to anybody.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 12:13:17 PM


John:

I thank you for correcting my spelling.

In no way do I consider it to be a harrassment.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 12:14:49 PM


All I want is somebody to answer my question.

Name me the Messiah who delivered the promised land of Israel to the Jews in the 20th century?

By your silence, I assume you are consulting with your imams.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-27 12:31:49 PM


SYF,
congratulations for your research. The Lord said that if you search Him, you will find Him.

I don't think the state of Israel happened by chance. I cannot name a modern messiah who delivered physically Jews in this country. The bible doen't say a modern messiah would do that.
Notice there is only one messiah, Jesus. He came the first time as a humble man to be crucified and deliver us of our sins. He shall come a second time as the Lion of Judah and with glory. See Revelation.

But I can name prophecies from the Word of God that predicts the Jews will get back to Israel.

Zechariah 12:9
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 37:21
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God;
Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land;
22
And I will make them one nation upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Israel and Judah have never been officially reunited since Salomon.

The Word of God is true.

I wonder SYF if you are born again.

John 3:5
Jesus answered,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

If you are not born again, just tell me I will show you how to. My email is [email protected]

In order to understand the bible, you need the Holy Spirit.

Posted by: Rémi Houle | 2006-05-27 1:29:05 PM


SYF,

My silence was simply ... that unlike yourself, I have a life away from my computer and was indulging in real world activities.

Here .....

"Let me lay out my conundrum in terms you may be able to understand."

That quote from your last hot air balloon makes my point where you talk down to others.

You are a really big fool and a know-it-all. I cannot imagine what you do for friends.

Finally, before I quit acknowledging your sorry existence. There is no such thing a Messiah. That is a fairy tale that people tell their children when they first realize that death happens. It's a big pacifier and sadly children like you take that belief into a stunted adulthood.

The Universe was not created by a godly entity as a backdrop for the likes of us.

God did not create man ... Man created god for all the convenient reasons you can possibly imagine.

Imagine, if you will (twilight zone music please) that I am a right wing catholic atheist. If you do, you would be correct. Just so you know where I am coming from. I live in a real black and white world of logic and fact. Facts that can be proven, not the ones you use in your research that are all conjecture and belief.

Good-bye you silly ass.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 1:50:19 PM


"Once again, Muhammad is the only prophet who not only advocated violence but actually held a sword in dispensing it."

Does this mean that Judeo-Christian prophets like Moses get a free pass because they only told their followers to commit horrible atrocities but didn't actually join in the fun?

Posted by: Jim in Toronto | 2006-05-27 1:58:19 PM


I believe Moses introduced the 10 commandments, n'est ce pas?

Posted by: lwestin | 2006-05-27 2:02:15 PM


It doesn't surprise me that "introduced the 10 commandments" is the sum total of your knowledge of Moses, lwestin. It is not, however, the sum total of what the Bible teaches about Moses.

I'd suggest you go find out for yourself, but I'm not sure if you're permitted to read the Bible without clerical supervision.

Posted by: Jim in Toronto | 2006-05-27 2:10:54 PM


John,

You may consider yourself right-wing, and you certainly 'talk' atheist, but a Catholic is Catholic by belief. Baptism and any other sacrament you may have received don't 'make' you Catholic. Its the Catholic faith. FAITH. As in, if you don't believe, by definition - you ain't!

Here's some Christian logic for you to mull over:

(lifted from C.S.Lewis, and Peter Kreeft)

If I believe, and yet there is no God, I have spent my life being comforted by the belief in a merciful and loving God. I never find out I'm wrong, as there is no hereafter.

If I don't believe, and yet there is a God, I have lived a life without knowing a merciful and loving God. I have believed in no future but today. I must count on my own self to achieve happiness and security, and seek it above and before any other. When I die, I will find God, but having denied Him all my life, my chances of choosing God over Hell are slim.

It pays to believe.

(A very simple exercise, not meant to be catechism.)

Posted by: lwestin | 2006-05-27 2:12:29 PM


tsk,tsk Jimmi-boy,

Moses was dealt with by God. That's good enough for me.

Your whole point was a canard to begin with. In Islam, its the writings of Muhammad that are believed and followed.
Moses brought the 10 commandmendts - from God. Moses acknowledged the'hardness of heart' that prevented the people from accepting the whole message of God's love, at that time.

Perhaps there's a little 'hardness of heart 'going on in T.O. today?

Posted by: lwestin | 2006-05-27 2:22:23 PM


Logic isn't your strong suit, is it Loretta? Nor, apparently, is reading comprehension.

In Islam, the writings of Muhammad -- the Quran -- are believed to have been directly dictated to him by the Archangel Gabriel, on God's behalf. The Quran is no more or less Muhammad's writings than the Ten Commandments are Moses' writings. Both are considered by their adherents to be "from God."

SYF has said (more than once) that Islam is suspect because Muhammad is the only PROPHET who has both advocated violence and participated in it. I asked why Judeo-Christian PROPHETS like Moses get a free pass. Muhammad and Moses are both PROPHETS. Do you get the connection now, Loretta? Or do we have to use flash-cards for your benefit?

You're plumbing new depths of ignorance here, Loretta.

Posted by: Jim in Toronto | 2006-05-27 2:32:59 PM


Iwestin,

"When I die, I will find God, but having denied Him all my life, my chances of choosing God over Hell are slim.

It pays to believe."

Pays like an insurance policy? All I do is pretend I believe and I am covered? I would have to pretend, because I didn't necessarily choose not to believe but rather, logic and common sense led me to my present state of reality.

Believers like to be guided through their lives ... at their peril! ... The truth is ... that not believing pays for sure. When you take control of your own mind you have a better chance of success in life.

Your idea is a crap shoot.

I don't care if people believe in god, it makes them more predictable and controllable ... see what I mean?

I do repect that some people have been brain-washed as children and to quote the late great Adolph Hitler ... "give me any child at age seven and by age fourteen he will be mine forever". He know how religion worked.

Fianally, even though I don't buy the fairly tale, I do embrace and live by Christain values, not be cause an imaginary deity wants me to, but because they make sense.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 2:39:29 PM


Jim in Toronto,

Without getting into whether your assertions about Moses are true you present a false dichotomy when you compare Moses to Mohammed.

The followers of Moses are not waging a world wide war against non-believers.

Posted by: Terry Gain | 2006-05-27 3:17:56 PM


The god of Muhammed is not the God of Moses.
Nor is pretending to believe the same as believing.

Posted by: HJD | 2006-05-27 4:02:00 PM


HJD,,
Stating the obvious is oh so boring.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 4:09:43 PM


It's not obvious to everyone, apparently.

Posted by: HJD | 2006-05-27 4:17:14 PM


Jim, you seem like a bright guy, you should really cut the sarcastic put-downs. It makes you seem small.

Posted by: EBD | 2006-05-27 4:59:11 PM


HJD,
Well, then, keep reminding yourself.

Posted by: John | 2006-05-27 5:41:42 PM


John,

You sound like you are trying to be rational. Belief in God is not an impediment to being rational. Since you appreciate the values that God has given you to live by, you might consider open mindedly researching God a bit more.

I still recommend C.S.Lewis and Peter Kreeft for Christian apologetics and "God is Love", the latest encyclical (Pope Benedict XVI), for God's message of love and mercy. Many 'atheists' have read these writers without coming to harm.

God Bless.

Posted by: lwestin | 2006-05-27 5:52:20 PM


set you free,
you should stay away from the islamo-koolaid "Jesus was a Palestinian" websites. There have been Jews living in Israel since Joshua crossed the Jordan river with the 12 tribes of Israel. Of course there have been Jews living there since the time of a Jesus. All of Jesus's relatives were Jews and their descendents were Jews too.
I don't get what you are saying - that modern-day "Jews stole the land" of Christian Palestinians?

Where did you learn that Moses only brought the 10 commandments from Mt. Sinai? Have you ever read the book of Exodus? or Leviticus? or Numbers? or Deuteronomy? So G-d only gave the 10 commandments and all the other stuff that Jews do are just crazy things that they made up?
What do you mean who is the messiah that brought the Jews back to Israel in our lifetime? Why does it have to be a messiah, why can't it be
G-d that brought them back?

from http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com (a Christian site)
In Deuteronomy 30:3-5, the Bible said the Jews would be scattered worldwide and that they later would return to their homeland and have their fortunes restored. This prophecy began to be fulfilled in modern times during the late 1800s when many Jews returned to Israel, from as far away as China and the United States, Russia and South Africa. Israel declared independence in 1948.

Deuteronomy 30
3
then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes[1] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.
4
Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back.
5
He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

NIV Footnote: [1] Or will bring you back from captivity

(New International Version translation)

Posted by: ex-liberal | 2006-05-27 8:50:48 PM


Here's another one for you, Set you free

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/jerusalem/jerusalem18.html

Arafat's Jesus

By Gerald A. Honigman February 5, 2003

"Now Jesus, having been born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod..." is how the account of Jesus' birth begins in the second chapter of the Gospel of Matthew.

Notice, please, the location is Bethlehem of Judea... not the "West Bank"... not "Palestine"... but Judea.

As the year 2003 begins, Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Irineos seeks appointment as Patriarch of Jerusalem. Letters with his signature on them to Yasser Arafat contained, among other things, the following:

"You are aware of the... disgust... all the Holy Sepulchre fathers feel for the descendants of the crucifiers of our Lord Jesus... crucifiers of your people... Jewish conquerors of the Holy Land of Palestine." Irineos claims that his 6/17/01 letter, published in Maariv, was a forgery. Unfortunately, there are evidently many other documents of the same flavor making the rounds as well.

Irineos's attitude is not uncommon among many Christians in the Middle East and elsewhere. Indeed, the quote above is virtually the same as words often spoken by the Greek Catholic Archbishop of Jerusalem, Hilarion Capucci, a few decades earlier. So it's safe to assume that many people share these beliefs. Some have simply inherited and modified them from traditional Christian teaching. Others, feeling exposed and vulnerable themselves living among real or potentially hostile dominant Muslim populations, seek common ground with their own off again/on again persecutors by turning the focus on a common demon, the Jew.

Christians played an important role in the nascent Arab nationalist movement in the late 19th and 20th centuries (does the name George Habash and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine sound familiar?), and the above explanation was certainly one of the main motivating factors. This was not unlike some Jews seeking to be absorbed under the potentially protective, inclusive umbrella of various socialist movements in Christian Europe around the same time.

A few years ago, during the Pope's visit to Israel, the media reported one of many of Arafat's own frequent comments on this subject. Speaking of the Apostle Peter, Arafat explained the "Palestinian" - i.e. non-Jewish - identity of Peter & Co.

Now for a reality check...

There was no country or nation known as "Palestine" during the time of Jesus. The land was known as Judaea and its inhabitants were Judaeans... Jews.

Tacitus and Dio Cassius were famous Roman historians who wrote extensively about Judaea's attempt to remain free from the Soviet Union of its day, the conquering Roman Empire. They lived and wrote not long after the two major revolts of the Jews in 66-73 C.E. and 133-135 C.E. They make no mention of this land being called "Palestine" or its people "Palestinians." And they knew the differences between Jews and Arabs as well.

Listen to this quote from Vol. II, Book V, The Works of Tacitus:

"Titus was appointed by his father to complete the subjugation of Judaea... he commanded three legions in Judaea itself... To these he added the twelfth from Syria and the third and twenty-second from Alexandria... amongst his allies were a band of Arabs, formidable in themselves and harboring towards the Jews the bitter animosity usually subsisting between neighboring nations."

After the 1st Revolt (see also the contemporary accounts of the Roman-sponsored Jewish historian, Josephus, in his extensive Antiquities of the Jews and Wars of the Jews), Rome issued thousands of Judaea Capta coins which can be seen today in museums all over the world. Notice, please... Judaea Capta... not "Palaestina Capta." Additionally, to celebrate this victory, the Arch of Titus was erected and stands tall in Rome to this very day.

When, some sixty years later, Emperor Hadrian decided to further desecrate the site of the destroyed Temple of the Jews by erecting a pagan structure there, it was the grandchildren's turn to take on their mighty conquerors.

The result of the struggle of this tiny nation for its freedom and independence was, perhaps, as predictable as that which would have occurred had Latvia taken on the Soviet Union during its heyday of power. Listen next to this quote from Dio Cassius:

"580,000 men were slain, nearly the whole of Judaea made desolate. Many Romans, moreover, perished in this war (the Bar Kochba Revolt). Therefore Hadrian in writing to the senate did not employ the opening phrase commonly affected by the emperors, ' I and the legions are in health.'"

The Emperor was so enraged at the Jews' struggle for freedom in their own land that, in the words of the esteemed modern historian, Bernard Lewis, "Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but also of Jewish nationhood and statehood... obliterating its Jewish identity."

Wishing to end, once and for all, Jewish hopes, Hadrian renamed the land itself from Judaea to "Syria Palaestina" - Palestine - after the Jews' historic enemies, the Philistines, a non-Semitic sea people from the eastern Mediterranean or Aegean area... Sorry Yasser... hijacking the latter's identity won't work either.

All of this did not occur until after 135 C.E., with the defeat of Judaea's charismatic leader, Shimon Bar Kochba. And, as with the breathtaking discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls practically at the moment of Israel's rebirth almost six decades ago by an Arab shepherd boy, Bar Kochba's letters to his troops, his minted coins "For the freedom of Israel," and other archaeological treasures were also soon unearthed.

"Palestine" became largely "Arab" the same way that most of the twenty-two states that call themselves "Arab" today did... by the conquest, occupation, and forced Arabization of other native, non-Arab peoples and their lands... Berbers, Copts, Black Africans, Jews, Kurds, etc. Muhammad's and his successors' imperial caliphal armies burst out of the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century C.E. and spread in all directions.

From the 10th century onwards, the Arabs lost control of the land themselves. And when the Arabs' own caliphal empires ruled, it was from Damascus or Baghdad. There was no independent entity of Arab Palestine then either.

The Ottoman Turks were the latest in a long series of imperial conquerors to rule the land since the Jews fought for their freedom against Rome. They did so for some four centuries up until World War I. During the Mandatory period soon afterwards, the League of Nations Permanent Mandates commission recorded scores of thousands of Arabs pouring into a largely depopulated Palestine from surrounding countries to take advantage of the economic development going on because of the Jews. Many more entered under cover of darkness and were never listed. All of these folks were preceded in the 19th century by many thousands of Egyptians who came with Muhammad Ali's invading armies and never left... more Arab settlers in Palestine. Arafat himself was one of them. So was Hamas' patron saint, Izzadin al-Qassam... coming from Aleppo, Syria.


And so much for Arafat's "Palestinian" Jesus.

Posted by: ex-liberal | 2006-05-28 7:00:16 AM


ex-lib:

All interesting chronology of historical incidents that rank right up there with Josef Stalin's death toll of 20 million of his own citizens. That's just a conservative estimate ... some are as high as 60 million.

I hope you're not seriously suggesting Yasser Arafat invented a story about how Jesus was a Jewish-born Palestinian to further his political agenda and that a man named Jesus did not do all that was claimed in the New Testament, the new covenant?

Palestine is a name given by the Romans to the region after the military solution Jesus warned against took place in 70 AD (how long after, I don't know offhand). The temple was destroyed and the surviving pereptrators and their families scattered through all parts of the world.

By renaming the area after one of the Jewish nation's most-hated enemies, the Phillistines, the Romans hoped these ‘trouble-makers' would never return.

Of course, the Romans also amused themselves by feeding Christians to lions and other such sports, so there's no need to feel superiority on the victimhood plane.

The Zionist movement of the 18th century (feel free to correct me if my understanding on this or any point is factually incorrect) did not specifically call for a return to Palestine. As I understand it, creating a South American homeland had been among the options ... and as history marched on, as far away from European bigotry as possible.

Therefore, the intial goal had been creation of a homeland where all Jews could feel safe. I have no problem with that, but in practical terms, how could that be accomplished?

‘The Jews killed our God' line of reasoning always struck me as intellectually shallow, so do not count me among the fans or followers of Met. Irenius or in any way subscribeing to that very un-Christian attitude. And, yes, I do judge him by his own words if he was idiotic enough to utter them, even though I am also Orthodox.

In all conscience, how can a non-Jewish person by physical heritage take issue with a Jew for killing a Jew ... or at least for handing him over to the civil authorities for public execution since there was no Jewish law to put a man to death?

The true gift of the Jewish legacy is its insightful writings well ahead of their time in the rest of the world from Moses to King David and though many prophets.

In no uncertain terms and through many examples, a Jewish Jesus pointed out this heritage should no longer be the sole domain of Jews who revealed it. The truth now was a gift to all of humanity.

Without stretching one bit of logic, most of the early followers of Jesus had to be Jews who could trace their ancestry back through the Exodus.

One of the fundamental differences, therefore, between the two viewpoints are:

1) Traditional Jews believe their people alone have a convenat with God and the promised Messiah is yet to appear on the earth.

2) Jews who followed Christ believed ancestry was not as important as the underlying message God had first given their ancestors, based on a code of conduct known as the Ten Commandments. All that man needed to know to connect with the heavenly kingdom was contained in the Ten Commandments. The first four dealt with individual's relaationship with God ... the next four deal with the individual's relationship with other individuals.

How you scrubbed your pots and other such guidlines to clean living may have been good practical advice, but what was in a person's heart to salvation was much more important than whether his pots were cleaner than the guy next to him. How anybody could call that type of directive a commandent from God is beyong me and, I think, kinda cheapens the main message.

Now, I'm no big fan of the Islamic code and I thank God much of the world has woken up to the true nature of its underlying philosophy of control through murder.

But I still maintain my question about the name of the modern-day Messiah who delivered Israel to mostly European Jews.

There can be no mistake a Messiah had been prophesized in the Old Testament and there are many reasons to believe Jesus was the Jew who showed the way the Jewish nation could escape oppression. That way was not a physical battle against earthly powers - not through armed resistance - but by living a life according to the spirit of God's Law as evidenced by observing all that is around us.

That's the freedom offered, yet rejected by the Sanhedrin. Why? If you can answer that one, you'll be well on the way to the ultimate truth.

And, believe me, there is an ultimate truth ... not just a bunch of moral equivalence blather ... to be found on the spiritual plane.

Good to see you're doing some research. To see the truth all you have to do is take out the politics ... and that's the only clue I'm willing to give you now.

Posted by: Set you free | 2006-05-28 6:47:45 PM


To whom it may concern (eg those who pretend man invented God).

Read the Word of God.

Please read Romans 1:17 to 20

God's essential attribute is revealed. It is not man's invention; it is God's revelation. Left to himself, man would never have thought of it.

The argument from cause and effect is one logical argument for the existence of God. As everything that exists must have an adequate cause, so an all-powerful and all-intelligent God is an adequate cause to explain the universe. The scripture identifies that cause as the creative power of God.

You are invited to a very interesting site lead by well known Christian scientists who will explain why God is into sciences (not the big bang):

http://answersingenesis.org/

Posted by: Rémi Houle | 2006-05-28 9:02:07 PM


1) I did not write anything to feel "superior on the victimhood plane" - its just history

2) Yes Arafat claimed that Jesus was a "Palestinian" http://www.theamericanscene.com/pubs/nro11801.htmlBoth Arafat and Ashrawi have publicly claimed that Jesus, in fact, was "Palestinian." In July 2000, under the headline "Nazareth: The City Where the Jews Murdered the First Palestinian of Her Sons," Al Hayat Al Jadida opined, "The forces of the Zionist occupation did not succeed in altering the face of the Palestinian Nazareth, and she did not forget and will not forget her first son who the Jews betrayed and handed over to the Roman emperor, and persisted until he was taken out to be killed."

3)Are these some of the "pot-scrubbing" laws that you don't see how anyone can call commandments from G-d? Like I said somewhere else, take it up with G-d, unless you think that some really crazy/smart Jews wrote Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy.
172 Not to eat any unclean animal Lev 11:4
173 Not to eat any unclean fish Lev 11:4
174 Not to eat any unclean fowl Lev 11:4
175 Not to eat any swarming winged insect Lev 11:4
176 Not to eat anything which swarms on the earth Lev 11:4
177 Not to eat any creeping thing that breeds in decayed matter Lev 11:4
178 Not to eat living creatures that breed in seeds or fruit Lev 11:4
179 Not to eat any swarming thing Lev 11:4
232 Failing to give charity to our needy brethren Deut 15:7
233 Not sending a Hebrew bondman away empty-handed Deut 15:13
234 Not demanding payment from a debtor known unable to pay Ex 22:24
235 Not lending at interest Lev 25:37, Ex 22:25, Deut 23:19
236 Not borrowing at interest Lev 25:37, Ex 22:25, Deut 23:19
237 Not participating in a loan at interest Lev 25:37, Ex 22:25, Deut 23:19
238 Not oppressing an employee by delaying payment of his wages Lev 19:13
239 Not taking a pledge from a debtor by force Deut 24:10
240 Not keeping a needed pledge from its owner Deut 24:10
241 Not taking a pledge from a widow Deut 24:10
348 Men may not lie with beasts Lev 7:20
349 Women may not lie with beasts Lev 7:20
350 A man may not lie carnally with another man Lev 7:20
351 A man may not lie carnally with his father Lev 7:20
352 A man may not lie carnally with his father's brother Lev 18:12
353 Not to be intimate with a kinswoman Lev 18:23-24

4) A messiah is not responsible for the ingathering and establishment of the modern state of Israel. As I said above, G-d said He would do it and G-d kept his promise.

5) Jews who followed Jesus such as James who headed up the community in Jerusalem quarrelled with Paul about whether the laws of circumsision and food laws would have to kept. Paul won the argument and that is just fine and great and as I have said before Thank G-d for Paul and Jesus because now the whole planet reads the Bible.

6) Jews see the "covenant" as a responsibility to keep the Torah alive and bring G-d into the world. It is not exclusive - anyone can join the nation of Israel - you just have to accept to follow the laws. Jews do not think that they have the special ear of G-d or that everyone has to one day become Jewish. For Jews, G-d is the G-d of all living things and everyone has access to Him

Posted by: ex-liberal | 2006-05-28 9:14:55 PM


The covenant with the Jews still lasts since G-d said that it was "forever" and that should quiet the debate unless one thinks G-d is forever-challenged.

The re-establishment of the state of Israel was foretold and happened. Ironically, only a Monty Pythonesque hand coming from parted clouds is what will impress those who don't believe in G-d. They will only accept a rejectable cartoon.

Be a Jew and convert, though it won't be easy and they will try to discourage you in order to ensure this is your real desire. Otherwise, be a Noahide, the oldest monotheistic belief system given by G-d to Noah: there are seven laws:

1. Idolatry is forbidden. Man is commanded to believe in the One G-d alone and worship only Him.

2. Incestuous and adulterous relations are forbidden. Human beings are not sexual objects, nor is pleasure the ultimate goal of life.

3. Murder is forbidden. The life of a human being, formed in G-d's image, is sacred.

4. Cursing the name of G-d is forbidden. Besides honoring and respecting G-d, we learn from this precept that our speech must be sanctified, as that is the distinctive sign which separated man from the animals.

5. Theft is forbidden. The world is not ours to do with as we please.

6. Eating the flesh of a living animal is forbidden. This teaches us to be sensitive to cruelty to animals. (This was commanded to Noah for the first time along with the permission of eating meat. The rest were already given to Adam in the Garden of Eden.)

7. Mankind is commanded to establish courts of justice and a just social order to enforce the first six laws and enact any other useful laws or customs.

Posted by: wharold | 2006-05-29 4:31:11 PM



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