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Wednesday, March 22, 2006

Wealthy Alberta?

I will not list the highlights of the Alberta budget released today but for those interested they are available at the following  http://tinyurl.com/ostor   .

I listened today to some coverage on CTV’s Mike Duffy show. To dispelthe prevailing idea conveyed by that program that we are simply rolling in dough, I would like to made several points.

Firstly, not many people realize that the difference between the revenue we send to Ottawa over what is returned to the province far exceeds that taken in from direct oil and gas revenues. So you can hardly say we are rich only because of that revenue. Secondly, I have quotes from a letter writer from near Montreal to the Edmonton journal, written after she visited Edmonton during our recent large snowfall. She says “The ‘have not’ people of Quebec owe the people of Alberta a debt of gratitude for their millions of dollars in equalization payments. Our government uses your money for things like snow removal equipment. Even when thirty inches of snow falls overnight, my little street and its sidewalks in a smallish suburb of Montreal are plowed and clear by morning.” Edmonton’s residential are not cleared yet today, Wednesday, after Saturday’s snowfall of about ten inches. I have travelled in PEI, another ‘have not’ province and seen hard top roads to practically every farm site. Alberta has built a lot of hard top roads but only a small percentage of farms are located right on hard surfaced roads.

Thirdly, a study by Finn Poschman of the C. D. Howe Institute released in 1998 entitled “Where the Money Goes:  The Distribution of Taxes and Benefits in Canada” contains this little gem: “For example, families in New Brunswick with $50,000 to $60,000 in total income are net contributors of 7% of income, while those in Alberta are net contributors of three times as much.” While minor changes have been made to the equalization formula since 1998 I have no reason to believe those net figure have changed appreciably.

Fourthly, I would like to see figures showing the annual per capita hours of paid work for Albertan compared to other provinces. I would hazard a guess that figure would be double that of a number of other provinces. Relevant also would be the figures of those paid to do nothing, i.e. Unemployment Insurance etc.

My complaint would be that we are being penalized for working hard and being successful. The idea of equalization is that all provinces should be able to afford equal services to their citizens. By the snow clearing example in Quebec and the roads in PEI it would appear that Alberta is being short changed on that standard even though we pay a hugely disproportionate per capita share of equalization payments.

My last complaint is that unlike the Quebec letter writer who says “So thank you Alberta for helping make Quebec a ‘have’ province”, all we get from most other recipients of our largesse is sneering comments about our greediness.

Posted by Bob Wood on March 22, 2006 | Permalink

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Comments

It is too easy to be envious of Albertans. It would be wise to put some feet on that envy and move here, to contribute in a part of the country experiencing fierce labor shortages, rather than sit underemployed somewhere else. People that I know in the energy business are stressed and working long hours because there is so much work, so little time and so few people to do it. No one in Alberta is sitting on the porch drinking lemonade and watching the oil bubble out of the ground.

Posted by: Halfwise | 2006-03-22 8:45:44 PM


A MESSAGE TO THE REDISTRIBUTIONISTS from P.J. O'Rourke.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-19n4-5.html

"Egalitarianism is worse than stupid, it's immoral". (See the 10th commandment).

Posted by: JR | 2006-03-22 9:49:56 PM


try working overtime in construction...after workin dawn til dusk with lots of overtime works out after taxes you are better off working no overtime, there's no (tax) incentive to work

Posted by: kelly | 2006-03-22 10:04:12 PM


ENVIOUS OF ALBERTA A IGNORANT FOOL WOULD SAY THAT

I SOLD REAL ESTATE FOR REMAX IN CALGARY

I VISTED THOUSANDS OF HOMES

YOU KNOW WHAT STRUCK ME THE MOST?

BIG BIG HOMES WERE EMPTY, UNFURMISHED, MOST PEOPLE COULD NOT FURNISH THE HOMES.

THIS WAS A DIRECT CONTRAST TO THE MANY EASTERN HOMES I HAD BEEN TOO WHERE EVEN THE GARAGES ARE FULL OF FURNITURE

Posted by: CANADIAN | 2006-03-22 10:18:19 PM


CAN THESE CRY BABIES IN ALBERTA TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT SEX, MONEY, BOOZE?

Ralph has been pulling the wool over the Albertan eyes for such a long time that they are real blind now?

When I fly over eastern Canada I see many many swimming pools in the back yards? and what about in Alberta? you see pick up trucks.

Posted by: James | 2006-03-22 10:23:17 PM


"When I fly over eastern Canada I see many many swimming pools in the back yards? and what about in Alberta? you see pick up trucks."

I wonder if that has anything to do with the taxes in those areas.

Posted by: Tozetre | 2006-03-22 11:26:20 PM


If you don't like Alberta don't come here. And if you are already in Alberta and you don't like it....you know where the borders are get the f#@k out.

Posted by: tigerpants | 2006-03-23 1:01:42 AM


The whole concept of 'equalization payments' should be terminated. It is theft and helps no one in the long run.

Posted by: Alain | 2006-03-23 1:05:47 AM


I agree Alain. Equalization payments are a sham. I can't find the link right now. But breaking down the numbers, Alberta has paid the same amount of money into equalization that Quebec has taken out in the last 10 years. I don't know about you but I think that is a travesty!!

Posted by: tigerpants | 2006-03-23 1:09:55 AM


Now now Pierre lets not get UGLY here. I stand by my post if you don't like it STAY OUT. And crying such that you are is very unbecoming and actually is a sign of weakness. You're just mad because Alberta wants to have a seat at the table in the joke we call a country and now it may look as though that will happen. Finally we won't have to sit idly by in this socialist good for nothing cess pool we call Confederation. The rest of Canada has been raping us for years now it's time to for us to be heard.

Posted by: tigerpants | 2006-03-23 1:15:06 AM


And Pierre just so we are clear you should maybe check yourself because your stupidity is showing. Alberta has been behind all or most of the movements in the history of Canada to make this shithole of a country more democratic and fair. Equal, effective and representative.

Posted by: tigerpants | 2006-03-23 1:17:57 AM


Tigerpants

Must feel good to good for you to have wet pants, you calling other people crazy and stupid shows us all you need your diaper changed.

You know the ones with the tiager on them to mke you feell you are a big boy

Alberta a democracy, that is cow dung

When you grow up you can Travel across Canada and learn firsthand that Alberta is known to be a backwater, racists place, full of rednecks, rude persons, weirdos and yahoos like you also are.

Tiger pants and who made you so stupid to think you can even to tell anypne what they can do,

and do get your own diapers changed, that is all you can do.

Posted by: To tigerpants | 2006-03-23 2:22:16 AM


Alberta is a democracy and if you do not like it Ralph Klein will throw a telephone book at you and tell you to go back where you came from.

what dumb fools think this is a democracy?

Those dumb fools in Alberta still even think the rest of us good Canadians are naive and do not understand them, they are just mostly big kids who need their mommies still.

Reality: A Kid acts childish, foolish but it takes a grown up mature person to be otherwise.

The Big Joke is tiger diaper pants pretending he is mature now and he understand what maturity is, or what real democracy for that matter.

HA HA HA HA

Posted by: The Big Joke | 2006-03-23 2:30:06 AM


Pierre or Colin or Prince Charles or whatever else you call your self, get some help , the medication isn`t working, avail yourself of the psychiatric practitioners in your area and get on their 12 step program . And stop the rampant sock - puppetism . It`s obvious from your pidgin English and rambling Bible quotes ,who you are every post. You are taking up valuable space with your nonsensical diatribes.

Posted by: daveh | 2006-03-23 7:19:33 AM


Preacher TROLL=JR=kelly=CANADIAN=James=Charles=Colleen=Astute=Funny=Pitifully poor=Pierre=To tigerpants=The Big Joke=PREACHER TROLL

All the same anti-social, psychotic, idiotic, grammatically crippled, intellectually bankrupt chucklehead.

Boy howdy, the Preacher Troll really has been stinking up the threads lately.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 7:27:56 AM


The whole concept of 'equalization payments' should be terminated. It is theft and helps no one in the long run.

Posted by: Alain

Equalization payments are in the Constitution. They can be adjusted, but cannot be terminated without Constitutional reform. That requires several provinces being on side. With Quebec having its churchill agreement that excludes its hydro generation revenue from the equalization formula, they probably like the formula the way it is. If their hydro was not excluded, then they would be a have province. I think that is why Harper wants to get all natural resources like hydro and oil out of the formula to make it more fair.

John M Reynolds

Posted by: jmrSudbury | 2006-03-23 7:33:40 AM


Big Government requires Big Money - municipal, provincial and federal.

Little Canadians require Big Governments to take care of them - name any issue or problem and the first thing out of a Canadian's mouth is "what is the government doing about it".

Big government likes it this way of course. Pay your taxes.

Posted by: infidel | 2006-03-23 7:40:06 AM


1. Albertans are the hardest working Canadians

2. the EDM Journal reported a while back that que citizens recieve their electricity at rates far below the market value. It works out to more than $400 per person per year and has been going on for years. That government (que hydro is a crown corp) subsidy also reduces gov't revenues and increases QUE's equalization rate to the tune of 2 to 3 billion per year.

3. ABans pay in to EI more than 1 BB per year than they actually collect in claims.

Posted by: Gord Tulk | 2006-03-23 7:44:30 AM



Socialism: Taking money from those who earn it and giving it to those who don't.

Democracy: The ability to vote yourself other people's money.

Canada: Socialist Democracy.

Churchill: ~Democracy is the worst political system ever tried with the exception of every other one.~ (Very approximate quote. The exact wording is no doubt much more eloquent.)

Posted by: Warwick | 2006-03-23 7:57:23 AM


If Alberta has so many irredeemable flaws, then why do the Easterners envy our wealth? Simple: greed.

Ontario has far more money than Alberta does, but almost none of it is taxed. Corporations there make huge profits, such as the TD Bank, but it all goes into private hands. Why? Why bother, when it is more politically acceptable to take it from Alberta?

Greed kills, rich Ontarians. Keep your filthy hands off Alberta and start looking among yourselves for solutions. You don't need our 'help' but are willing to 'take' it anyway. Thank goodness for Premier Klein who will stand up for Albertans against the feds. It makes up for his other shortcomings.

Posted by: Scott | 2006-03-23 7:58:45 AM


Ralph Klein's standing up for Alberta against the Feds is and always has been, just a pose.

Where is the firewall Scott?

Jean Chretien said Ralph Klein was "his man" and I believe him.

The Alberta Progressives have to go. Albertans deserve to be represented by a Provincial government that will insist the 1867 Constitution Act be respected by Ottawa.

Only the Provinces are given taxation powers in the constitution.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 8:21:08 AM


Alain,

I don't have a problem with the principle of equalization - I really don't mind sharing some of my prosperity with INDIVIDUALS who don't have it so good. It's charity and I approve of giving to those.

However, equaliization should be focused on helping individuals through direct transfers, rather than by subsidizing governments.

Posted by: Ace | 2006-03-23 9:02:01 AM


Equalization allows provinces with socialist governments to continue mismanaging their provincial economies and driving out private investment.

These bankrupt policies will continue as long as they aren't made to stand on their own.

Equalization does not make people or provinces equal, it is a prop for failed socialist policy.

Wealth transfer is theft and is fundamentally immoral.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 9:14:42 AM


How come no media outlet is telling Canadians that the feds. collect more tax revenue from oil production that the Alberta govt?

Posted by: barrie | 2006-03-23 9:40:36 AM


Cause the media doesn't want to ruin a good thing. They sell scandal and envy. They're too busy being good scapegoaters.

Posted by: Warwick | 2006-03-23 9:42:14 AM


>>Equalization allows provinces with socialist governments to continue mismanaging their provincial economies and driving out private investment.

and all this from a person who likely has not been to all of the provinces of Canada,

all just pretentious, not impressive.

Alberta is the biggest mismanager in Canada, Alberta cannot even manage basic Medicare.
it's operating costs for the basic health care has gone up 70 percent the last 5 years and is why Ralph to cover up his incompetence is torpedoing Medicare. The bad Health Minister pretender Gary Marr used to hire outside consultants to do his work till he was exposed and fired as heath minister of Alberta.

Besides oil and gas why is Alberta unable to attract so few investors?

How many new major manufacturing industry has it attracted the last 25 years?

Alberta lost 20 billion under it's investment programs. Every time Alberta develops an marketing, investment plan it goes into deficit, cause giving grants to other alcoholic Conservatives is really a poor investment firstly.
Does it manufacture any cars in Alberta?

The high costs of living and the high costs of labor, the small population base makes it all unpractical in Alberta so they instead just gripe about and bash the others again and again and again.

Those Socialists make more progress cause they also pay more taxes, quebec and ontario inluded, which cannot be said of the Albertans

Alberta has no deficit now cause it's ministers are mostly deficit.

Posted by: Anne | 2006-03-23 9:55:14 AM


>>How come no media outlet is telling Canadians that the feds. collect more tax revenue from oil production that the Alberta govt? Cause the media doesn't want to ruin a good thing. They sell scandal and envy. They're too busy being good scapegoaters.

and you guys are so full of it..

you produce much too much excess gas, manure in Alberta.

Posted by: Jim | 2006-03-23 9:56:59 AM


Alberta is incredibly wealthy, no doubt about it. We don't have swimming pools because it's too cold. We don't need snow removal because we have pickup trucks. Our houses don't need much furniture because we're never home. We're so busy that we don't consider our Premier to be a major player in our economy. The guy could stay drunk forever and it wouldn't affect anything.

Posted by: dan | 2006-03-23 9:58:19 AM


Actually, that comment was mine. I'm sitting here in London Ontario which is not in Alberta.

And the media does exactly as I said. They sell envy, greed and scandal. Truth is optional, included only where it helps their agenda.

Posted by: Warwick | 2006-03-23 9:59:31 AM


Preacher, you coward, why don't you use just one nic you sicko? Do you have to pretend support from invisible friends for your idiot comments, or are you really such a split personality psycho?

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:00:31 AM


Preacher=Anne

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:01:49 AM


...Albertans are the hardest working Canadians

get real dreamer.

you mean the most pretentious, incompetent.

Most city folks in Alberta lied to get their jobs, they still are overpaid for the very little they do and that is why the others had closed many of the manufacturing plants in Alberta and reestablished them outside the province, even sell the manufactured goods back to Albertans at a high costs.

Personal incompetence is the biggest complaint of managers of Alberta still.

A stupid politicians told a watch manufacturer to establish shop in Alberta and he did not, he closed it when he found out the local chickens and cows do buy watches. the many Farmers don't even buy clothes.

Alberta has a population of about 3 million

but within 500 mile radius of Toronto there's a 25 million population access.

While Calgary is just a big tourist, service industry consisting of Hotels, motels, homes, schools, hospitals, and crooked accountants, crooked lawyers, bad cops but Ontario produces real goods.

Much too much farting goes on here in alberta.

Posted by: Dream on | 2006-03-23 10:07:05 AM


"Much too much farting goes on here in alberta."
Posted by: Dream on

That would be you and all your invisible friend, Preacher. But you aren't in Alberta you ostrich.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:10:13 AM


Too many Albertans here like to have all of the the empty space to get themselves noticed since they have a void ego that needs to be masturbated often. You always notice how they are envious, jealous of the others and their posts too.

Ignorant fools who believe they can tell others what to do need to learn from the others firstly

When they cannot deal with the presented bash they resort to bashings,

Alberta is a so undemocratic fart

Posted by: Sure | 2006-03-23 10:11:39 AM


Keep going Preacher, somethings gotta give, eh ostrich?

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:13:14 AM


I also do love the great scenery of Alberta , too bad the uneducated persons such as Speller there were not as nice.

Something got to give, yeah likely more gas, manure, farts from Albertans like you.

and you say you do not need to take your meds?

Posted by: Colleen | 2006-03-23 10:15:59 AM


You're a devilishly farty Ostrich, Preacher.

Ostrich, Ostrich, Ostrich. Bash, FART, BASH! BASH!

No democracy for you, Preacher. No free speech for YOU, PREACHER! Just FREAK speech.

Speller is soooo NICE. Yes Speller is very Nice, Ostrich?

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:18:52 AM


It's interesting to note that comments from the east have just as many spelling errors, and poor grammar as those from Alberta. It seems the only difference between eastern rednecks and Alberta rednecks is that we make more money. We also work harder. That's a statistic, not an opinion.

Posted by: dan | 2006-03-23 10:20:33 AM


Alberta has developed this new marketing plan to attract new investors in Alberta

It is based on lies

you tell everyone how rich Alberta is

but you do not tell them the whole truth that the Premier and MLA's are incompetent managers, they have no real business developing, managing experiences, for they spent most of their time in the taverns for a start.

or experiencing screwing the sheep.

No wonder you wrongfuly discourage others not to tell the truth here.

I really do not balm you

facing your realties is frightening


Posted by: Pierre | 2006-03-23 10:21:38 AM


Jesus loves you Speller

even if you clearly do not love him and the others

Posted by: Belinda | 2006-03-23 10:23:14 AM


"We also work harder. That's a statistic, not an opinion."
Posted by: dan

While I agree with you dan, 'harder' is a comparison not a statistic.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:23:20 AM


Thanks for not balming me Pierre. We don't have many sheep here, sadly. I miss the availability of high quality wool clothing, etc.
We don't need no stinking marketing strategy. We have oil.

Posted by: dan | 2006-03-23 10:25:58 AM


Alberta's major economic plan was developed by the premier Klein in the tavern, doubling the number of alcohol establishment in Alberta so they can be more accessible. smart one ehh? Then the police and Aldermen in the local Calgary police tavern came up with the idea of generating more revenue by giving out more traffic tickets. to cover up the fact they can't get the bad guys and girls firstly. Meanwhile you can also still cheat, lie on your expense accounts.

Posted by: Pierre | 2006-03-23 10:26:57 AM


Scenery filled with Ostriches, eh firstly, Too True now, Preacher?

Don't bash Speller now farty Preacher.

"I really do not balm you

facing your realties is frightening" sez farty Preacher.


Oh, please Preacher, don't balm me!
OK, so you're frightened of reality now we're getting somewhere.

I don't need you to tell me who loves me, Preacher. You probably think you're Jesus in one of you multiple personalities.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:28:35 AM


Crap

Dominion Bridge there behind the Calgary Stampeded grounds had manfucturing plant in Calgary Edmonton and many other parts of Canada

The manufactoring costs, errors, reqwork were the highest in Alberta, double that of anywhere else
so they closed the Alberta plants first.

Most engineering directly is still done in Toronto and not in Alberta

Your Masturbating may feel good but it is not real sex.

Posted by: Coleen | 2006-03-23 10:31:26 AM


Got some more brain farts out, eh, Preacher?

Does your keeper think letting you post on conservative blogs, bashing Alberta, is some sort of therapy?


I doubt you know what real sex is, Preacher. You appear to be a self-stimulation expert though. It must be lonely to only have you multiple ids give you gratification.

Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-23 10:35:36 AM


Yes Pierre some do cheat on their expense accounts. My employees all do it. I don't mind at all, because it creates a good distraction. The guilt they feel keeps them from asking for raises in pay. They are less likely to argue over small deductions. They are more likely to buy and maintain better equipment. They have more after tax dollars than if they had higher salaries. It's a good practise for most businesses, that's why it's overlooked.

Posted by: dan | 2006-03-23 10:36:41 AM


We don't need no stinking marketing strategy. We have expensive oil and we pay a lot for our goods, home, hidden taxes and that is why we are so crappy.

We also for a start do ignore the fact that the revenue being generated by the oil is even diminishable, and is being eating up by the costs of home, street development in Alberta and that is why there is not even homes even in Alberta today.

Never mind it is not the Citizens who are getting rich from the oil but politicians and corporations now as well

Get real

the gas you produce really smells bad.

Posted by: Alberta | 2006-03-23 10:37:13 AM


Speller,

I agree with you. Every time the Alberta argument comes up everyone starts shrieking about how anyone could run the show here, its the resource revenue that makes them rich. Anyone could do it. Really?

Take a drive through Saskatchewan, they have every resource available to them that Alberta does. Perhaps even more with their extensive mining resources. Still they are a dying province with a good many of them moving to Alberta. Why?

Gee, lets see, year after year of socialist NDP governance wouldn't have anything to do with, that's to easy. That's to simple, but actually, it is exactly the reason. Every Province has a resource and a strength. The weakness is their cities with a population that vote in these ridiculous governments, then wonder why they can't make ends meet.

If this country were restructured and ran properly (like Alberta) with its vast resources and low population every man woman and child across the country would be receiving a tax rebate, not paying 50% of your income to the vast failing bureaucracy that passes for government in this country.

Of course, expecting this country, and particularly central Canada living in their big illusion, that will simply never happen. You people are the masters of your own demise.

If you want to run your socialist Province's into the ground, the whole time calling one of the few successful ones "rednecks", shriek, run-down and point fingers, why and the hell should we pay for it? We are simply rewarding your stupidity.

You should actually be thanking Ralph, if a good many Albertans (and I'm one of them) had their way, the money train would come to a halt till you smartened up, and started to help yourselves.

Posted by: deepblue | 2006-03-23 10:38:00 AM


and can you recommend a local AAA program Ralph and his drinking buddies can go to?

not another albertan anonymous alcoholic drinker

Posted by: Coleen | 2006-03-23 10:39:35 AM


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