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Wednesday, March 22, 2006
PM to President Karzai on Raham
Prime Minister Harper issued a statement, here, that he called Afghan President Karzai in respect of the prosecution of Abdul Raham, also reported as Abdur Rahman, an Afghan citizen who converted from Islam to Christianity, variously reported as fourteen to sixteen years ago. The Prime Minister's concern was framed by freedom of religion, and Mr. Karzai assured him that Mr. Raham's human rights would be protected.
However, the CBC was reporting earlier, today, here, that the prosecutors in the Raham case are contemplating asking the Afghan court to rule Mr. Raham unfit to stand trial by reason of insanity.
So, here's the timeline thus far:
1. Mr. Raham is discovered carrying Christian literature, possibly including a Christian Bible;
2. Mr. Raham is charged under Sharia law for converting from Islam;
3. Mr. Raham is under threat of the death penalty if convicted;
4. Mr. Raham is allowed a way out if he will recant his Christian faith and convert back to Islam;
5. Mr. Raham refuses to recant;
6. Afghan prosecutors consider asking for a ruling on Mr. Raham's sanity . . . ergo, a sane person would surely recant and convert back to Islam; and
7. Prime Minister Harper calls President Karzai per above.
Next?
Posted by Russ Kuykendall on March 22, 2006 | Permalink
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Next? Every Ontarian breathes a sigh of relief that the Liberal plan to allow Sharia law as a dispute mechanism in lieu of Canadian law didn't happen.
Posted by: Roark | 2006-03-22 2:57:59 PM
Hmmm ... where is the outrage from the Muslim community? Oh ... sorry they are outraged , as he converted to Christianity and I also forgot , only cartoons are important , but it is ok to hack up infidels especially converts.
Posted by: willy | 2006-03-22 3:01:50 PM
The Karzai regime is different from the Taliban how?
If Western Troops were not in Afghanistan Karzai would probably be hosting Crazy Sammy as a 'guest'.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-22 3:09:29 PM
I'm unsure what you expect from President Karzai.
He knows that Raham can't be executed for conversion to Christianity; that would outrage the Western governments and, the NGO companies that are assisting Afghanistan. But, he still has to deal with an existent hard core percentage of fundamentalist Islamists in his own country - AND, with the fact that Sharia law is 'the law' in that country.
How does he deal with the this? By the claim of 'insanity' and 'unfit to stand trial'. That enables him to deal with the problem. We, in the west, do the same thing. We find someone not guilty by reason of 'depression' or other such claim - when we have a problem where the action and the law are 'out of sync'.
Change takes time. The West had to both protest, and, accept how Karzai slithered out of the problem.
But- it's a good point. Where's the outrage from the moderate Muslims? Why aren't they speaking up and assisting in the reform of Islam? I will say, that Muslim women lobbied the Ontario gov't very, very hard, to ensure that Sharia Law would NOT be passed in Ontario; they did a superb job in that respect.
Posted by: ET | 2006-03-22 3:10:43 PM
How would Islamists respond to a cartoon that depicted Mohammad hacking up an apostate?
Posted by: Johnny Pockets | 2006-03-22 3:13:00 PM
'How would Islamists respond to a cartoon that depicted Mohammad hacking up an apostate?'
"Nice training aid. The Prophet had a good backswing."
Posted by: Billy B. ByTown | 2006-03-22 3:50:03 PM
Johnny - I'm sure you know that the riots in the ME about those cartoons were staged by their gov'ts. You don't hold a public rally in any of those countries without it being organized by the govt'.
And, I'm sure you also know that the original cartoons were ignored by the Muslim community. But, then a radical imam added three fake ones, and went on a pilgrimate to the ME, to 'raise riot' - and the ME dictators used those cartoons to, as usual, divert their people's attention from the serious problems in their own country (esp Syria).
Most of the people didn't even see those cartoons; they don't have the internet; and they don't gather in public, unless ordered to, by their gov't.
Posted by: ET | 2006-03-22 3:55:51 PM
"(esp Syria).
Most of the people didn't even see those cartoons; they don't have the internet; and they don't gather in public, unless ordered to, by their gov't." ET
As usual, ET, you're spouting complete nonsense.
People gather in public all over those Muslim countries, they have open market places.
The open market places have gun kiosks where the locals buy and sell AK47s, RPK machine guns, and RPG-& anti-Tank weapons, test firing them on the spot.
In Syria there are numbers of arm's bazaars where T72 Main Battle Tanks can be purchased, fully fueled and armed, for a mere $3000 US.
http://www.free-lebanon.com/LFPNews/2004/February/feb12c/feb12c.html
Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-22 4:17:28 PM
Oh, for heaven's sake, Speller - don't misinterpret what I'm saying in such an extreme and silly manner.
Of course I'm not talking about market gatherings. I'm talking about organized protests. Protests or promotions they don't happen in these countries, without gov't approval. OK?
And if you consider that 'as usual' - what I write is complete nonsense - then, don't bother reading my posts. I'll do the same with yours.
Posted by: ET | 2006-03-22 4:23:32 PM
I agree with what ET says, that the president of Afghanistan is between a rock and a hard place right now. Until Sharia law is displaced, these trials will continue to happen. However, Sharia law is an integral component of Islam, and therefore I believe that it will stay as long as the majority of the populace is hard-line Muslim.
Posted by: TS | 2006-03-22 4:31:09 PM
ET, these Muslims are ARMED to the TEETH and demonstrate how and where they want without government interference as long as they aren't dissing their own governments.
Not only are they well armed they belong to large extended families and have a history of doing whatever they like, including rape and murder, and taking up arms whenever someone tries to stop them.
You say they don't and I disagree.
Since most people believe otherwise, including AQ and the Taliban, you should prove your point.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-03-22 5:07:01 PM
"where is the outrage from the Muslim community?"
Um, did you just deliberately skip my post from East Turkestan on the subject?
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2006/03/east_turkestan_.html
Posted by: China e-Lobby | 2006-03-22 5:21:26 PM
My question is, where has the West been before this story surfaced?
This is not an isolated incident, but regularly occurs in countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Ethiopia. Converts to Christianity are actively persecusted in most Muslim countries.
I personally know people who knew some who have been killed for converting to Christianity.
This has been going on for years, documented in books like "Their Blood Cries Out" by Paul Marshall. But no one seems to give a rip until now.
Posted by: Mike S | 2006-03-22 5:32:25 PM
Sharia law eh? Is that the same one that the government of Ontario wanted permit in that province.
If so, sooner or later there would be a death sentence for maybe ... mmm let's see ... eating a chocoloate bar without praying first or some other idiotic wrong doing. Or maybe some burka babe gets raped and must die to atone and save face for her whacked out family.
At that point we may get the capital punishment debate re opened. Then we can perhaps, with the help of all the immigrants in Ontario to whom killing someone is normal fair if he/she makes you angry or insults you in any way, get the death penalty reinstated so we can off a few of our sub humans ... EG child mostestors, gang shooters and any other murderers that we can prove are guilty.
What do you think? Good idea? Hey .. shria law in Ontario is not my idea ... but I guess it made sense to the Liberal government of Ontario.
I heard they weren't going to put it in, but not because they didn't want to kiss Muslim ass, but because there was an outcry from those who are not insane. Thankfully there are still enough of us around to make a bit of difference upon occasion.
Of course in Canada we are closing in on their methods of dealing with those who hurt our feelings. Say something anti feminist to a feminist and presto, you are in front of a human rights tibunal and your life or at least your career is ruined.
Posted by: Duke | 2006-03-22 5:58:28 PM
A radical Christian loves his neighbour to radical extremes; a radical muslim kills. It is simply wrong to confuse or equate the two faiths. They are radically, fundamentally different; at heart, they are opposed to each other. You can choose one or the other, or reject both, but let's get over this nonsense that all religions are basically the same and that fundamental distinctions cannot be made.
Posted by: Richard Ball | 2006-03-22 6:50:49 PM
United States President George W. Bush said , he was "deeply troubled"
Wednesday, 22 March 2006 Abdul Rahman, 41, has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under Afghanistan's Islamic laws. ( United States President George W. Bush said Wednesday, March 22, he was "deeply troubled" that an Afghan man, Abdur Rahman, could face the death penalty in Afghanistan for converting to Christianity from Islam. His announcement came amid news reports that two other Afghan Christians, whose names were not released, were arrested in recent days elsewhere in the country apparently on similar charges. In addition one young Afghan convert to Christianity was allegedly beaten over the weekend outside his home by a group of six men, who finally knocked him unconscious with a hard blow to his temple. He woke up in the hospital two hours later but was discharged before morning, reported Christian news agency Compass Direct. The report, based on anonymous sources, could not be confirmed independently. The influential Washington DC-based International Christian Concern group with website www.persecution.org said it had urged Afghanistan's government to understand that even the Koran is against the death penalty for those who abandon Islam. It cited Surah 88:21-22 – 'And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them, your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe' as among examples. The trial of Abdul Rahman is the first of its kind since the fall of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan in 2001 and seen as a test to Afghanistan's ambiguous constitution. "It will set a precedent for the treatment of other converts from Islam to Christianity," said Barnabas Fund, which investigates the persecution of Christians inside Afghanistan and other Muslim nations. In 2004 five Afghan converts from Christianity were murdered, apparently by militants, either for apostasy from Islam or for spreading their faith, the group added. "It is reported that other converts who have been formally charged by the authorities have renounced their faith in the face of the death penalty," .
Christian Freedom International, another major US-based religious rights group, said the case was not an isolated insicent. "The persecution of Christians is an increasing, unintended consequence of the War on Terror," said CFI President Jim Jacobson, a former White House official. "Minority Christians face severe and growing persecution in many Islamic nations including Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and elsewhere. This must be condemned at the highest levels wherever and whenever it occurs," he told BosNewsLife in a statement. "The arrest and imprisonment of Mr. Rahman for converting to Christianity is a cause of major concern for all freedom-loving people, but it is the tip of the iceberg," said Jacobson. "His case is one of the few times in recent history the 'mainstream media' actually covered a story on Christian persecution," said Jacobson whose organization urged President Bush to intervene. "While we want Mr. Rahman to go free, there are thousands of other persecuted Christians in Islamic nations just like him. Becoming a Christian should not be considered a crime in Afghanistan or elsewhere," he stressed. The Washington Post newspaper quoted diplomats as saying Wednesday, March 22, they had been "assured" Rahman would not be put to death, and Afghan diplomatic sources apparently confirmed this.
http://www.bosnewslife.com/news/1935-news-alert-bush-condemns-afghanistan-for
MUSLIMS ARE SILENT, NOT PROTESTING THIS ARE THEY? HOW COME? HYPOCRITES.
Posted by: ACTIONS ALSO NEEDED. | 2006-03-22 10:12:20 PM
Caught with their pants down the Muslims devils next resort to lying, slanderous spins..
Kabul — An Afghan man facing the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor and presidential adviser said Wednesday. Abdul Rahman, 41, went on trial last week in Kabul. He was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian. The conversion is a crime under Afghanistan's Islamic laws, and a death sentence is possible.But prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari said questions have been raised about his mental fitness.“We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person,” he told the Associated PressMoayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Mr. Rahman would undergo a psychological examination"Doctors must examine him," he said. "If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped."It was not immediately clear when Mr. Rahman would be examined or when the trial would resume. Authorities have barred attempts by the Associated Press to see Mr. Rahman and he is not believed to have a lawyer.A Western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate -- both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter -- said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case because of the reaction it has caused
Caught with their pants down the Muslims devils resort to lying, slanderous spins but I often see Canadian Politicians, even Albertans devils here too doing the same immoral thing.
I get a kick of those people who are caught with their pants dowm and instead of admitting the truth they next lyingly say you are crazy, or go back to where you came from if you do not like it here, all false diversions that still do not change the facts as to what they are themselves, devils!
Posted by: Pants down | 2006-03-23 2:11:18 AM
Preacher, where exactly are you from ? Just curious...
Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-03-23 8:36:06 AM
If Karzai is the last word on the fate of this guy, does that make him King?
Most free nations have an independent justice system.
Western style democracy is not attainable over there.
Posted by: dan | 2006-03-23 9:44:42 AM
In many democracies politicians are able to pardon the convicted. That doesn't make politicians kings.
Posted by: Warwick | 2006-03-23 9:50:56 AM
Find prayer space, school told Engineering college failing its duty to accommodate Muslim students, Quebec panel rules MONTREAL -- One of Canada's largest engineering schools has been told it must find a prayer space for Muslim students who have been relegated to a campus stairwell for their daily rituals. The Quebec Human Rights Commission said yesterday that the school, affiliated with the University of Quebec, failed in its duty to accommodate Muslim students by denying them a place to pray in dignity. It has given the institution 60 days to remedy the problem. The commission stopped short of saying the École de technologie supérieure should set aside a separate Muslim prayer room, an option found at several Canadian universities. But Marc-André Dowd, interim president of the commission, said other universities have created multifaith or meditation rooms, among other alternatives, to meet the needs of their growing Muslim student bodies. "The secular nature of an institution doesn't remove its obligation to accommodate students in their religious needs," Mr. Dowd said. Yesterday's report was in response to a $1.1-million complaint filed three years ago on behalf of 113 Muslim students, who depicted an unwelcoming and even hostile atmosphere at the school of 4,800 students at the edge of downtown Montreal. The students said they were kneeling on prayer carpets in crowded stairwells. Prayer carpets stored in a student's locker were removed by the university on the grounds that lockers had to be padlocked to prevent theft. The school refused to grant accreditation to the Muslim Students Association because of an in-house policy excluding religious groups. Overall, Mr. Dowd said, both sides in the dispute showed themselves to be rigid. The ruling was greeted with disappointment by the group acting on behalf of the 113 Muslim students. Fo Niemi, executive director of the Montreal-based Center for Research-Action on Race Relations, said the ruling amounted to a "slap on the wrist" for the engineering school because it failed to mention the issue of damages to the students who had suffered discrimination.
Next they will have to provide space to train these terrorists too
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060323.MUSLIMS23/TPStory/National
Posted by: provide speace to train these terrorisst | 2006-03-23 10:57:13 AM
Preacher, where exactly are you from ? Just curious...
None of your business firstly
From Canada is not good enough?
or the fact he lived in Calgary for 15 years
I got asked the same question by a discriminatory perverse judge in Alberta
and i told him i was an immigrant from Canada
Posted by: Colleen | 2006-03-23 11:00:41 AM
I continue to notice that the Alberta redneck farts cannot deal with the posted facts they instead wrongfully resort to personal bashings, all very sad.
Posted by: Peter | 2006-03-23 11:03:43 AM
Preacher: I just asked. I thought you for a middle eastern Muslim, the way you butcher the language, and try to defame Christianity. My mistake, you're an immigrant in Canada from Canada. Makes perfect sense. You really should ease up on the negativity, makes you seem angry. :)
Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-03-23 4:57:57 PM
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