The Shotgun Blog
Tuesday, February 14, 2006
Daryl Cagle has assembled an impressive collection of cartoons about the reaction to the dreaded cartoons. For a sample of how cartoonists from around the world have been responding to this absurd situation, click here.
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Dear Doctor Mohammed
Here's some facts laddie:
1. Islam has always been spread by the sword and its champions have slaughtered hundreds of millions in their never-ending jihad - it is estimated 85,000,000 died during the assault on India alone in 100 years during the 13th and 14th centuries.
2. Islamic nations have been slaving out of black Africa and Europe since the 7th century - it is estimated 16 million blacks were enslaved by them versus 12 million by the Europeans, not to mention several million European Christians and god only knows how many Hindus.
3. Slavery was extinct in most of Europe during the 12th, 13th and 14th centuries. It was only started back up in the 15th century because it was the custom in black Africa to sell human beings when our explorers got there, due to the on-going Muslim influence. Unfortunately our forebears fell prey to the temptation, believing it was that foul institution which made the Muslims and the ancients so powerful and their sin still haunts us, (which is a strong statement for an atheist like me).
4. Barbary and Ottoman slaving of Europeans, (note the word itself comes from Slav, a favorite target of the genetically deprived), included taking Irish and English folk from their homes, not to mention innocent British traders in the Med. That may have contributed to the eventual reaction in England - the land of hope and glory, where, even at the height of its involvement in the trade, no man who stepped on its soil could be held in involuntary bondage.
5. Slavery was stopped only in the 19th century by the British, under the Pax Britannica and inspired by a revival of Christian brotherhood, along with some allies in Europe and abroad. British warships patrolled the coast of Africa interdicting slavers even at the height of the Napoleonic wars, when Britain itself faced being enslaved to the mad Corsican's ambition.
6. Dhimitude is the fate of non-Muslims under Sharia, not equality. They are forced to wear distinctive clothes, pay special taxes and are held to be inferior to Muslims under the law. The Koran and Hadiths are full of imprecatiuons against the "people of the book", not to mention super-evil idolators who should be killed on sight. Mote 700,000 Jews were murdered or expelled from Arab countries from 1948-1960, in the "modern" era, as the powerless were used for revenge against the Israelis, whom the simpering Muslims could not defeat in a fair fight.
7. Christian domination of the world was predicated on a well-defined sense of mission, as well as an unfortunate sense of racial superiority. If it were not for the arrival of Europeans in India, for example, the destruction of the ancient, rich and vibrant Hindu and Buddhist cultures there by Islam would doubtless have continued and their civilization would eventually have been erased from history, as was the glory that was Persia, know today mainly through Greek sources.
8. The colonization of Africa north of the Cape was driven in large measure by the desire to eliminate slavery, and expeditions were only sent inland and outposts eventually established to stop traders. This led to the eventual colonization, but it in instructive to note that, barring the disgusting Belgian depredations in the Congo, European rule was largely benign, and even constructive. Ghana for example had a per capita GNP higher than Singapore when the British left - now with independence it is not even a 25th.
9. WW1 and WW2 were vicious struggles but they were also necessary and resulted in the elimination of much that was undesireable in European thinking, and ultimately in the establishment of healthy free democracies throughout the continent. I don't see anything similar in Islamic history.
10. The Japanese started the war in the Pacific and the democracies finished it. There was little alternative to dropping fission bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the horrific American casualties on Iwo Jima amd Okinawa clearly demonstrated that Japanese fanaticism, in the form of kamikazi pilots and soldiers, would lead to unacceptable carnage if conventional weapons alone were used. (Islamic suicide bombers and Iran might take note).
11. Bosnian Muslims were complicit with the Ottomans in supressing and enslaving the Christian Balkan peoples for centuries, and although they may not have deserved the vicious hatred shown them by their neighbours, it is somewhat understandable that at a time of rising Islamic madness they were felt to be an imminent threat. It is interesting that one of the hotbeds of Islamic terrorism today, and a seat of Al Quaida's strength, is in fact in Bosnia and Albania.
I'm bored. Please go back to some Sharia-cursed land if you don't like hearing, or seeing the truth.
Posted by: Peter in a place I hope they can't find me | 2006-02-16 9:34:09 AM
I hope nobody prints cartoons of Hitler in a bad light. The neo-nazis might get upset. Tolerance now, everyone.
Posted by: St. John | 2006-02-16 10:00:50 AM
i am a Muslim (woman)and i know quran and Hadith. i read them daily. on the other hand you are not and you do not speak Arabic or study islam. so i judge what is twisted and what is not. and when i tell you that this site is what muslim follows i am right.
the site you refer to is backed with lies just like the cartoon. the American rich writer who wrote this book is (sorry to say ignorant) and in no place of judging or debating about islam.
when i send you a referral i am sure that is what the muslims believe in because i am one of them. yet your referral is weak and bias and misleading. he was debated by muslim scholars and all what he said was refuted.
Be honest to yourself and others and do not spread misleading resources.
you can find a live debate between a muslim and the writer of this book on this site http://www.muslimaccess.com/
Posted by: Muslim | 2006-02-16 2:28:53 PM
Yawn. Who cares about Islam? Not me. I'm tolerant - this means I tolerate those who practice the Muslim faith IF they don't threaten my rights - my right to free speech, my right to insult them if I choose or praise them if I choose, my right to be "blasmphemous" in their eyes, my right to be "offensive" in their eyes, my right to life, my right to property, etc. Get out of my way and you're okay in my books. I don't need to or want to understand Islam nor the Mormons. I don't care. I start to care when my individual rights are in danger.
Posted by: Howard Roark | 2006-02-16 2:38:02 PM
That's all well and fine Muslim. Now about those airplanes...
History has presented socialism with two faces: that without death camps, and that with.
Similarly, we see two faces of Islam: that will terror-possessed jihadists, and that without.
Our dilemma is that we cannot remain passive when a cult has articulated that its mission is to destroy us, yet at the same time there is a larger community sporting a similar label that is willing to peacefully co-exist. We have to resist, and these cartoons are a message to that faction that would have us submit to their Islam. At least, I'm not planning to submit to it any time soon. From what I see, life in their Islam is not worth living - which they seem eager to be prove on Israeli buses on a regular basis.
Posted by: Shaken | 2006-02-16 2:47:48 PM
well for the whole christians who cursed our profit espcially proude canadian
till now you can assume you true copy of bible?
of course not you many and many writen by many people!!!
how come god killed by people he created???!!
why god needs a son if he can do any thing???
that is the reall crazyness
you are playing bingo in your churches man!!!
Posted by: dr.mohamed | 2006-02-16 6:05:16 PM
Excuse me Dr. Mohamed, but I hope you do a better job writing prescriptions than you do opinions. I think I'll avoid you if my kids are sick. Beware of any angry doctor. I knew a palestinian doctor years ago. Be scared me as well, but at least he could argue without beheading anyone. We don't play bingo in churches any more. While we're on the subject of churches can you explain why storing weapons in mosques is acceptable to most muslims. You are using churches to spread hatred and terrorism. That's not so nice. While we're at it let's also talk about Sikh temples storing weapons. We give them a pass because they are only killing Hindus. I dare anyone to try going into a Sikh temple. Kiss your ass good-bye. Churches in general need closer scrutiny. They also need to start paying taxes if they can't do a better job of making people see the light.
Posted by: dan | 2006-02-16 6:44:01 PM
>the site you refer to is backed with lies just like the cartoon.<
Of course it is, I would have expected no different an answer from you. Watching the actions of the radical Islamists around the world, I tend to agree with the author in question. They seem to have no problem following the book of terror as he lays it out.
I suggest if you want to be honest with yourself you would question the radical part of your faith who obviously have read a different version of these writings as you have.
Where is the peace and love in their hearts as they crash planes into buildings and kill innocent men, women, and children all over the world?
What version of Islam do they refer to before they go out and cut someone's head off with a butcher knife?
I am a Christian, you could burn my bible, use it for toilet paper, whatever you want to do, the most you would ever get out of me a wry smile. It is your right. I will simply go get another. Just as you have been fed a line about your own religion you would be a fool to believe every Christian is some bible thumping lunatic. That is a line of propaganda used by the left in the western world and is absolutely ridiculous.
But when you try and tell me in my free country that I cannot print, or look at some silly cartoon because it may offend you, that will incur a wrath you would not want to see. The freedoms in the western world have not come cheaply, they have been paid for in blood, and they will not be taken away easily. Either by inside, or outside influences.
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-02-16 7:44:51 PM
your churches moving the armies against muslims
and that is the truth and that what happened in waves of crussade wars
and you are just talking about exceptions in some mosques.
well i hope your christianity can find a reason for establishing slavery and occupation
and spreading the democracy through wars and killing civilian starting from vietnam and ending in iraq
your religion is the base of hate and killing and destroying the others
even catholic killed prtestants in europe beacuse they felt that they are diffrent
i hope you can read the history and the news papers and you will find crimes every day done in iraq and palastine by non muslims
stop reading by your ass please
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-16 7:49:02 PM
i do not know how did you get the idea about storing weapons in mosques ??because simply we have governmrnts and armies!! you know that?
and we have constitution and laws. and it is imossible to get a single shut gun.
any way if you understand arabic i will say you are reight about spreeading hate in mosques but off course you are ignorant about other languages and also history and current events!!
how did you know???
my original country is egypt and you can find any where mosque besides church you can hear bells and azan in the same time
we accept the others
but off course because you are christian white you are superior and the others are inferiors
Posted by: Dr,mohamed | 2006-02-16 8:09:42 PM
OK Doc please recognise first that I am a pagan and hold no love for either the crusaders who suceeded in conqering my people nor your crusaders, erm... excuse me Jihadii, who are currently stirring the pot after we've finally after 980 freaking years regained the right to practice our religion without certain death upon discovery. So listen carefully, the Pope has not had an army nor has he or any other christian leader called for a crusade against Pagans or Infidels since the Lithuanians became Christianized under the armoured boot-heel of the Teutonic order. Yes it can certainly be argued that both the British colonisation of India and the colonisation of North America had crusading elements to them, but they were primarily financially oriented as opposed to purely religious. "The Thirty years war" which you refer to where catholics killed protestants was essentially the same kind of political struggle between feudal eliteism and independant self determination that we have been seeing as a primary motivator for war ever since then. For that reason it has been named by historians as the first modern war. You mention Slavery as being established by Christians, this is very interesting as possesion of slaves are recorded in the archeological evidence of Sumeria, which also happens to be the first use of written language for beurocratic purposes. Also it should be noted that virtually if not actually all successful civilisations since have had a slave class of people. Whether by involuntary foreign conscription, or by a native Caste system they have all had a slave class, in fact it could be argued that by social scientists that even today the western world has a slave class in those who are entirely dependant upon others for their gainfull employment, but I digress and wander from the point. Where was I? Oh yes, back to your "point" that the basis for Christianity is Hate and Xenophobia. Yes in the Middle ages it was, Charlemagne founger of the Frankish empire slaughtered entire tribes of Heathen europeans, both Celtic and Germanic. It was the survivors from these depredations fleeing north into other heathen lands that Inspired the Viking Backlash and colonisation. My point to all of this historical background is a desire to provoke thought about what the primary motivators are in any social interaction. To truely get to the real tap root of the tree so to speak. In a modern context Why for example does the "muslim World" feel a need to mock and demonise Christianity, the technologically advanced western world and its political system of democracy? I think the writing of ET up above has a couple very profound points. And Just for you Doctor Mo I'll Draw another Quotation from the Havamal,verse 22 "the illminded man who meanly thinks, fleers at both foul and fair; he does not know, as know he ought, that he is not free from flaws."
PS. to "a proud Canadian" I can and do draw a comparison, largely historical in context, between both of these "my way or the bone yard" religions it is true that Christianity as it is practiced currently is not the all annihilating sword of the Christianisation of Europe. BUT and I capitalise it because it is an important But, it should not be forgotten that Christianity's path to dominance was paved with the skulls of unbeleivers and mortared with their blood. Now I am not a neo Viking out to burn down churches in a misguided beleif that this will compensate for the deaths of certain of my ancestors. But I having learned of the courage of those martyrs to my adopted faith in the face of a totalitarian regime I can do no less than them in the face of a new Threat to my freedom of religion.
Posted by: Daryl Haaland | 2006-02-16 9:36:00 PM
A few brief points.
It sounds like the logic-challenged "Dr. Mohamed" received his iman status for $25 from the back of a Marvel comic book. Maybe a degree in advanced Mohameddean theology.
At one point, Dr. Mohamed, either you or one of your co-religionists pointed to numbers as supporting the truth of Mohameddism. Well, there are more Christians than Mohameddeans in the world, so even by that weak argument Christianity has a greater claim to truth.
You ask why God would give up His Son? I have two responses.
First, God loved and loves man, and therefore sacrificed His Own Son to redeem man from his sins. Only Christ, as one of the three persons of the Trinity and also a true man, constituted an adequate reparation. One commentator compared it to Abraham and Issac, and in Christianity that scenario is perfected by God the Father offering His Son. Now, as I understand it, there is considerable debate/discussion about the nuances of salvation because.....
Second, on a certain level it's a mystery. And why is it a mystery? Because God is above man, and man cannot fully comprehend the ways of God. See, this is the core difference: Christians worship God and, despite their protestations to the contrary, the Mohameddeans worship Mohamed.
Now it seems that Mohamed was basically the leader of the 7th century Arabian equivalent of a motorcycle gang, a group which robbed, raped and murdered those who would not submit. He did set out certain rules of conduct, especially with respect to treatment of other Mohameddeans. However, even the modern Hells Angels have rules of conduct for treating other members of the gang. Mohameddism is thus not a deep moral system. Look at one consequence of the irrational and thug-like Mohameddean belief system: No Mohameddean has won a Nobel prize in the sciences (except for one Ahmadi who shared a prize, and the Ahmadis aren't generally viewed as good Mohameddeans).
A couple of other points:
You said no one could criticize Mohameddism if he can't read Arabic. A specious argument. That's like a Christian saying no one can criticize Christianity if he can't read Latin and ancient Greek. Unless there is a specific translation issue, it's a way to dodge defending one's position. Moreover, it points out a flaw in the Mohameddean world: That Arabs try to assert supremacy over the other races and peoples. This is unlike Christianity, where all races are supposed to be equal. Finally, a German scholar has recently pointed out that much of the Koran is actually in Aramaic, not Arabic.
Catholics and Protestants killing each other. Hmmm. You could have thrown in the Orthodox for good measure. Sadly, that happened, mainly in the past and contrary to the Christian teaching. However, every day there is more news of the Sunni and Shia killing each other, let alone what is done to the Alawites, Ahmadis, etc. (as well as Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and everyone else). The difference: Killing is an instrinsic part of Mohameddism, unlike Christianity.
The Crusades. Mohameddeans murdered Christians, denied us access to holy places, overran the Christian Middle East and North Africa, and were trying to do the same to Europe. So, finally, in self-defence, we hit back. I'm proud of the Crusades, and proud to be a Canadian. Canada has never lost a war and, God willing, we won't lose this one.
Now, Darryl. Are you really a pagan? Do you really believe that multiple deities genuinely exist? Or are you just an agnostic making some noise? It does seem that you have forgotten that pagans killed Christians in the Roman Empire, and that various other paganisms have killed Christians in the past. In any event, some clarity of thought is called-for. This isn't just a debating society. Book chains were intimidated by threats of violence into not carrying a reputable magazine. It is a time for serious thought and action, if we are to preserve freedom in the West.
Posted by: A Proud Canadian | 2006-02-16 11:57:27 PM
Proud Canadian writes: "Now it seems that Mohamed was basically the leader of the 7th century Arabian equivalent of a motorcycle gang, a group which robbed, raped and murdered those who would not submit."
You are too kind to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). A modern motorcycle gang leader also beats his wife, as Muhammad recommends a Muslim to beat his many wives - but do you know of any motorcycle gangster who writes a book on beating your wife and claims this is god's edict - and then to add insult to injury, then claims to have a walkie-talkie to god, and that his walkie-talkie is the very last one in existence?
I think you are rather unkind to the average motorcycle gangster, if you ask my opinion ;-)
Posted by: kazemi | 2006-02-17 12:07:56 AM
706. Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said,
"He who believes in Allah and the Last Day, let him show hospitality to his guest; and he who believes in Allah and the Last Day, let him maintain good relation with kins; and he who believes in Allah and the Last Day, let him speak good or remain silent.''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
To honour a guest means to welcome him cheerfully, entertain him happily according to our capacity and have full regard of his comfort and rest. As for our relatives, we are supposed to treat them nicely and to do our duty towards them.
Reserve in speech implies that we should avoid senseless and irrelevant talk. We are apt to pass most of our time in the remembrance of Allah, seeking His forgiveness and saying what is good to everybody. Or we had better keep silent. These three qualities are possessed by those people who believe in Allah and the Day of Reckoning.
In other words, those who lack these qualities betray only a weak and imperfect Faith.
Posted by: muslim | 2006-02-17 7:19:20 PM
1555. Ibn Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said,
"A true believer is not involved in taunting, or frequently cursing (others) or in indecency or abusing.''
Commentary: This Hadith tells us the virtues of a Muslim (true Muslim). Taunting here means to disgrace someone with reference to his lineage or by means of backbiting and slander. La`in is a person who is given to frequently cursing others, reproaching and using abusive language. (Fahish) is one who commits through word or practice immodesty. Badhiy is a person with a loose tongue. This word is also used for an impudent and abusive person. This Hadith strongly criticizes these vices.
Posted by: muslim | 2006-02-17 7:27:57 PM
for proud canadian
i still insist that you are really ignorant as many here
you said no one of muslim won noble prize and you consider us as igonrants, but simply you should know that numbers you know are arabic, zero is arabic inventions, algebra is arabic
mmost of sciences innovated by muslim scientist in middle ages in the time where europeans used to live in caves,that is besides musical instruments as guitar and the gap was so clear when arabs were in spain and you can see that in the monuments and the architecure in spain.
you can make sure of that if you can read the roots of any modern sciences.
and you said that our prophet is a gang motorcycle leader, fortunately he is not that , hei beyond your narrow racist mind
i can curse your jesus and make joke of your god and poe who forgives you and send you for heaven but i can not because iam polite and respect that is one of islamic morals and you miss that so badly in your religion!!
i hope some day you can read real books with opened mind and you will know the truth
have a good night man
Posted by: Dr.Mohamed | 2006-02-17 7:41:54 PM
to true canadian and Dr. Mohamed
as a matter of fact there are three muslims won the nobel prize
1- the egyptian leader :Anwar el sadat
2- the Egyptain literatture : Naguib Mahfouz
3 - the Egyptian scientist: Ahmed Zoel
sorry proud canadian that you did not know about that... !!!
As for the zero Dr. MOohamed yes it was an arabic invention made. it is even know by its arabic word "cipher" According to Merriam webster dic.
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French cifre, from Medieval Latin cifra, from Arabic sifr empty, cipher, zero
1 a : ZERO 1a b : one that has no weight, worth, or influence : NONENTITY
chemistry = Al kemya in arabic
algebra = al gabr in arabic
well anyhow. please Dr. MOhamed
لا تفقد اعصابك وحاول ان تحافظ علي هدؤك للنهايه
فلتنكم كلام حسن او لنصمت
Posted by: muslim | 2006-02-17 8:09:31 PM
Islam won the most violent religion award. Oh, not only that, but they also rape children in the name of Islam:
Mohammed was a child molester:
Islamist rape children in the name of Islam:
Islamists rape crying children:
Isamists must be proud of their achievements!
Posted by: freedom_warrior | 2006-02-17 9:02:02 PM
Hi ya there Proud Canadian; yes I am actually a pagan and no I do not consider this a debating society. Also since I am not "of the book" it seems my earlier identification has placed me "beyond the pale" to doc Mo and mr Muslim. To address your points:Yes I do beleive that Multiple deities actually exist as well as multiple lesser spiritual beings aligned to the multiple purposes of those deities or none of them. It can get a bit complex, I acknowledge and I do also find that by witnessing the activities of monotheists from a pagan/Heathen perspective shows to me that many of those are deluding themselves about who and what exactly they do beleive in. I am not BTW in anyway questioning your own level of faith, or indeed any of the details of it as I do not actually know you. The type of External examination of someone else's place in the web of wyrd (a term relating to ones relationship to everything physical spiritual and all) takes time and personal examination to determine, not the sort of thing one can do from afar. Second point, no I haven't forgotten that pagans of multiple stripes from shinto and hindu to Asatru, native american, Aztec and all others have killed each other, as well as Christians since men were organized enough to acknowledge that the spiritual world existed at all. However the purpose the Romans specifically had for Killing Christians was not because they worshipped a (to the Roman Mind) heretical jew that they were dragooned into crucifying by the local magistrates. They named christianity a proscribed religion because it rocked the socio-political structure of the empire. Christians were witnessing their religion to the slave classes and the prospect of a glorious life eternal was appealing to them for all the same reasons that christianity is still popular today. This naturally enough led to more than a few slave revolts, fueled on the same kind of ideological illogic seen in the more irrational communists, (remember this was not an educated time, and horrible errors made by imperfect teachers are compounded when taken to erroneous conclusions by imperfect students). So to reiterate yes People have consistently killed each other since time immemorial. It is my beleif, and your milage may vary, that the natural premise in heathenism that since there are more than one God naturally there are more than one way to get to go to your own God. Thus it is illogical and blasphemous to declare that ones own God is the only way to salvation for all, equally blashemous to us is the declaration of a war to demonstrate ones own God's supremacy. A pagan would go to war for nearly any other reason and pray to his war gods to protect him while doing so, but never to prove that his God of war is better than another. Any misinterpretation of my intent with regards to the preservation of freedom in the west is entirely due to errors in my words and incomplete exposition of my position. I apologise. Regarding this I should say that NOTHING COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN A PRESERVATION OF MINE AND ALL OTHER PERSONS' RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS, IN SO FAR AS THOSE RELIGIONS DO NOT DECLARE WHAT I WOULD INTERPRET AS A BLASPHEMOUS AND HERETICAL WARS UPON ONE ANOTHER.
BTW I don't expect that Christianity itself will be declaring any war's like this against any other religion including Islam, too many people like myself would declare a return to the spanish inquisition. However I have absolutely NOTHING at all against defending ones self against a religion that has declared war upon me, Islam for example declared an extermination campaign against me and my kind in the early days of it's existance and has never repealed its decision, therefor I must presume that we are still obliged to defend ourselves. Also as allies in this defence the extremist's claiming to be Islamic have declared a war to the knife against the western world "the great Satan" they call us, Ironic I think. I have nothing against the US or any other country defending itself in any way preemptive or otherwise against an inplacably maniacal foe such as these extremist's claiming to be Islamic.
Finally to those of you who are actually peaceable Islamists and who DO get along well with others without hiding an ulterior agenda, beware of who you let into your Mosques. In fact also beware of which Mosques you do attend, distance yourselves from those who would abuse your hospitality laws and beware of those who would disease the body of your family with irrational hate, overweening pride, and xenophobia. That way lies destruction
Posted by: Daryl Haaland | 2006-02-17 9:06:43 PM
BTW sorry for being so damn long winded I figured I needed to fully explain a couple things
Posted by: Daryl Haaland | 2006-02-17 9:09:06 PM
muslim is telling dr.mohammed how to behave and it's decrypted like so:
don't loose your temper and try to keep your cool to the end .....
Posted by: decryptor | 2006-02-17 9:16:52 PM
sorry Daryl but I can not reveal myself as a *planted and cultivated enemy of state* I am a 5th generation Canadian who believes in equality and respect of all of humanity who also believes that fighting over religious beliefs is like fighting over who has the best invisible friend.
still, in a greater picture, is a respect for others.
Posted by: jevanzella | 2006-02-17 9:50:39 PM
Good for you and good for all of us if you've read my posts and understood my intention, I do not merely wish to sneer at other religions under the mask of humour, that would be disrespecting what the gods exist for.
Beleive me in my religion there are stories which when told in the eldest form are extremely funny as well as wise, insightful, profound and all things a parable and allegory are supposed to be, the story of Thiassi and his daughter Skathi to name one in particular.
I wish to with wisdom and humor ask profound questions both of myself and others. Sometimes a bitter and uncomfortable question asked of ones own self goes down better with humor, which is exactly the purpose of an editorial cartoon, political satire or any other form of humour which elicits an emotional response other than and in combination with humour. I also presume that you have seen the cartoons that all the "Fuss" is about, I can tell you this, apart from the word "prophet" in front of some of the cartoons and Context providing filler for certain others the figure could have been anybody in a beard playing a role in a cartoon. In some cases the figure was simply that a figure. Removed from the text and context accompanying the other more blatant cartoons, the man in the drawing could have been nearly anybody in a dark beard. I'm glad that we agree that fighting over "how many angels can box on the head of a pin" is silly in the extreme. But I must disagree with you on the possible point of unconditional respect for others. I beleive that persons who conduct themselves with decorum and basic courtesy are deserving of respect so long as they maintain that and are also forthright, self sufficient,and self controlled.
As soon as someone loses this or abandons all reason or begins to rationalize someone elses silly behavior then I lose respect for both that behavior as well as the entities (persons, organizations etc.) directly involved. Seems reasonable enough, n'est pas?
Posted by: Daryl Haaland | 2006-02-17 11:39:53 PM
I think it best not to claim Mohammed was a child molester. How can that possibly be proved or disproved? Instead we need to focus on what is glaringly obvious. The Muslim movement is going to destroy everything we've worked for, unless we get a handle on it. We've all seen the atrocitiies on both sides. It always happens in war. Our biggest concern in Canada is making sure that when Muslims come here they learn, in absolute certainty, that our laws and customs take precedent over their religion. We haven't been doing this for 20 years, and now we have a problem.
We also have to be more careful about professional creditation. If Dr. Mohammed is really a doctor, then someboby fucked up. This guy has neither the intelligence nor the personality to be a doctor. Period.
Posted by: dan | 2006-02-17 11:59:35 PM
to work in canada and you are foreign graduate you must and must pass alot of equivalency exams and they are very difficult ones.
the authorities here make sure that you are real doc or engineer or...
so do not worry we have strong credentials otherwise you would not see any professional immigrants.
one like me is a good plus for the community because i came here to help and serve people of this country.
could you tell me what are you doing for living?
you are high school graduate???
by the way i have 2 masters from usa
and 11 of 19 engineering colleges deans are originally egyptians as iam
and it is impossible to say that i have a good personality or no without knowing me.
but i beleive that is anothere proof that you are highly ignorant person.
i hope you will be just an ignorant person
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 7:36:43 AM
You are quite right. I probably shouldn't have questioned the seriousness of your belief; you had identified yourself as a pagan, and I don't know you. I simply have not encountered serious believing pagans, though Buddhist friends seem to have beliefs which seem to recognize multiple deities.
I said there has only been one Mohameddean winner of a Nobel prize IN THE SCIENCES. Read what I wrote. No one has contradicted that. How can such a large community produce so few Nobel winners in the sciences. The answer is, bluntly, the anti-intellectual bent of Mohameddism. The belief system is antithetical to perceiving reality accurately. Look no further the responses in the discussion - little attempt to address the arguments raised, just mainly quoting Mohamed's life to people who have zero use for Mohamed and the Koran/hadith.
Canada is not a Mohameddean country - deal with that fact, or leave. I have to put up with you insulting Jesus Christ by your insisting that He was just a man, and not true God as He is. The Jews have to put with with "God" not "G-d", or even "Allah" not "-ll-h". And Mohameddeans will just have to live with cartoons and maybe movies about Mohamed, whom I reiterate was NOT God's prophet. You're not asking for respect, you're asking for submission and you will never get it from me.
I don't mean to insult individual members of the Mohameddean religion. I've had Mohameddean friends and acquaintances who have been fine people, but I would submit in spite of their religion, not because of it. In fact, most apparently adhered to apparently less virulent forms of Mohameddism, and it seems that that religion has become more extreme in Canada lately.
P.S. Mohameddism is a religion or cult, not a race. My comments are not racism.
Over and out. This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by: A Proud Canadian | 2006-02-18 6:41:08 PM
You just won't let it go will you? Face it, you don't have one friend, or one supporter, do you?
Anyone can claim to have a handful of degrees. But it might hold more weight if you didn't misspell every second word.
Ignorant? Maybe. But it only took me a minute to find out who you are by clicking on your e-mail. Are you a doctor? Would you like to see your place of business posted so people could boycott your business?
You came here to help and serve the people of this country, but you said in a public forum that most Christians are ignorant. Well, I'm not a Christian, but I think you should look up at the tall buildings before you call them ignorant.
If you have 2 masters degrees as you say, then I'll assume you are some sort of teacher. It won't take long to find out. I suspect it won't go over well when the faculty finds out you've been spewing anti-Christian hate messages in a public forum.
So long, for now
Posted by: dan | 2006-02-18 7:51:51 PM
i guess Mr.dan you are the one who psted hate message for 1300 million muslim but what you said about islam and our messenger mohamed
by saying all that lies like gang leader!!!
you are the hateful not me
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 8:17:08 PM
i did not say that most christian are ignorant
you can review what i wrote to make sure
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 8:56:03 PM
I'm starting to have bad thoughts so it's time to quit. I won't really target you personally. That was a stupid reaction on my part. I still believe that you're here to help yourself, not the people of this country. That is okay so go ahead and admit it. Check the messages again. Someone else made the comments about Mohammed, not me. How could any of us really know anything about someone who lived so long ago.
If you want to make a life here, then get used to some prejudice. We all have to endure it. It makes us stronger.
Posted by: dan | 2006-02-18 9:07:48 PM
iam really sorry because i did not read who sent the bad comment, i thought it is you but it is not
any way no or any one can do anything for me neitherefor any body else in this country because this country ruled by laws and advanced democracy may be more that usa it self.
yes you are right i came here to help my self and that is good thing make you proud of our country, canada is the country where you can have a chance.
but in the same time i came to help and if i do not hepl i would not be allowed to come.
any way when i said some are ignorant i ment ignorance about the others.
if you have the chance to read about the real islamic world, the real adavnces and sciences made by muslim you will change your opinion
to know if you are right or wrong you should know the bothsides and hear from the both sides
one of the greatest thing in islam is for real accepting people of other religion
muslims were the only people who accepted jewish and welcomed them
you can go to that website of wikipedia sitehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain
any way my best friends here is jewish and i have a alot of christian friends and i found the misunderstanding is always coming from the ignorance about the others.
any way i beleive instead of himulating my religion and my profit you should search for the common ideas and thoughts in the all wholy religions because simply we came from the same root ADAM and EVE
anyway dan sorry again beacsue you are not the person i ment
and if you need my data i can give it to you beacsue i do not do anything wrong, iam plus for the community here and this country gave me agreat chance i appreciate it
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 9:28:04 PM
Dr. Mohamed, do you think that Muslims and others can discuss Islam and Prophet Muhammad and critcize the religion or the prophet?
Just because many people "believe" in something without having reason to believe in it, does not make that thing beyond discussion. If they feel insulted, then maybe they should not "believe" in it in the first place. Especially if there is something wrong with the religion or its prophet.
For example, is Prophet Muhammad infalliable? We know he is not. So why can't we talk about that?
Posted by: kazemi | 2006-02-18 9:36:17 PM
who are you to judge 1300 millions and say hat they are wrong? who are you? are you a god?
how do you know if there is something wrong in our religion or no>? did you read our book or history?
kazemi are you believe in any religion?
i guess not
so i guess you should your genius points of view for youself because we will not understand it
you look so smart and genius , you should not write here , it is not suitable place for you.
you should satrt writing for another world may be in another galaxy close to ours
do not forget to drink milk and hear good story before sleeping and use good blanket to feel ok
good night honey
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 9:47:02 PM
Dr. Mohamed, Why are you evading the question, may I ask? Are you ashamed? I asked:
1- can we discuss or criticize a religion?
2- is Prophet Muhammad infalliable?
You seem to have gotten upset. These are legitimate questions.
What makes you think I am judging 1,300 million people? I am not a judge, and have no enforcement powers.
I am expressing my opinion on the ideology of Islam. Is there anything wrong with that? Also, I am expressing my opinion on Prophet Muhammad, a historic figure. Is there anything wrong with that?
Whether I believe in any religion or not - is not your business. And stop the insults to me.
People like you who are unable to answer the point or discuss matters civilly, end up insulting and attacking the commentator, like you have done here.
Posted by: kazemi | 2006-02-18 10:01:40 PM
you are talking about insulting and civil discussing and you said our profite is a motorcycles gang leader?????
you are talking about civil discussion?
review what you wrote, then tell me if you are really civilized or no
iam sorry again dan mr. kazemi is the guy who cursed our profit not you
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 10:10:27 PM
Lets try to settle down. I know I was part of this escalation of emotions, but I think we need to put it to bed.
We're all stuck here. I moved here to better my life just like you did. Even though I came from eastern Canada I had to put up with all kinds of prejudice. In fact, being of Irish decent was as dangerous as being black in the old days.
We learned about other religions in a very broad sense when I was in school 30 years ago. It's hard to explain many religions to other faiths. I don't follow any, but I understand most. Christians have raised the status of their prophet to God. This seems to have happened recently. I don't remember Jesus being refered to as God when I was in Sunday school. The fact that Muslims have stayed consistant says something for their conviction. I prefer some of the Native American religions that respect nature, and believe in give and take.
I don't know why Mr. Levant published those cartoons, and I don't really care. Maybe it's only to sell magazines, or maybe it's to drive a wedge, but it sure got us talking. I was ready to start swinging there for a while. Hell, Ive been fighting most of my life, and most of my opponents are friends now.
Okay, I won't criticize Muslims as much as I did before. I still reserve the right to my opinions though. I never did attack your prophet directly, so no apologies there.
What say we organize a dialogue that doesn't include personal assaults on others beliefs. I think it would be quite a first for this group. Any one interested let me know. Like I said we're all stuck here.
Posted by: dan | 2006-02-18 10:34:11 PM
very reasonable and decent dan, i would like to shake your hand, it is very wise to say that
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 10:43:37 PM
Dr. Mohamed - I see what your error is now. You are not knowledgable about matters of human rights and civilization.
The right to free expressions asserts: A person can discuss, criticize, and insult an idea, a religion, an ideology, a principle, a theory, a historic figure, a public official, and a household name.
Furthermore, a person has the responsibility NOT to attack, insult, slander or libel a PRIVATE individual.
So you see, the right to criticize Prophet Muhammad (or other historic figures) is not only a right, but also is a sign of civilization that can tolerate that. So I have been absolutely correct.
But you started by personally attacking the poster of a comment. That is the height of incivility, and is obviously a remnant of your Islamic upbringing.
So now you become aware of your erroneous ways.
Pls. study the right to free speech, and also laws on slander and libel, and educate yourself, Dr. (of what? Islamic studies? heh heh) Mohamed.
Posted by: kazemi | 2006-02-18 11:04:00 PM
i know where are you from now and who exctely you are
unfortunately i do not have ph.d in islamic study
but at least i know know you are full of hate for muslims and i also know why
and i beleieve you have ph.d and masters of igonrance , racism, impolitness
you should ask some one to adopt you and raise you again, because you are in bad need to know hhow to respect and behave youself
it is too late now, good night,sweetdreams
Posted by: Dr.mohamed | 2006-02-18 11:11:49 PM
Dan, there is nothing wrong with criticizing Prophet Muhammad - after all he was a pedophile - but that is besides the point. The Constitution guarantees your right to do that.
I dont think anybody in Denmark or in Canada wishes to insult Muslims. The problem is that Muslims wish to stop you and me to exercize our rights - therefore it becomes an issue of asserting your rights, or losing it.
Otherwise why would anybody want to insult other people? Now that does not mean I we should not criticize what other people do, such as terrorism or beheadings or just today Muslims killed 15 Christians for being Christian.
But when Dr. Muhamed says that you cannot discuss a HISTORIC FIGURE, namely Prohpet Muhammed, then that is the gravest insult to us free thinkers like me and you, because that is within our rights. And then he goes and PERSONALLY ATTACKS other posters, because he wishes to silence them. Now he can be breaking the law on slander for doing that.
The problem is that Muslims are insensitive and intolerant and take criticism of Islam and Prophet Muhammad personally.
Well, somebody who is "believing" in something, and has WILLINGLY adopted said belief, cannot go and silence others into submission. Therefore, it is absolutely civil to criticize a belief. But uncivil to criticize a race, because the person has had no choice in his race.
Posted by: kazemi | 2006-02-18 11:11:52 PM
To all readers - for the record:
Dr. Mohamed has evaded the questions originally asked him and instead engaged in ad hominem and personal attacks of this poster, as a method to escape the consequences of those questions.
Dr. Mohamed writes: "i know where are you from now and who exctely you are"
It is NONE of your friggin business who I am. Stick to the point and stop the ad hominem, and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS which are the subject of the debate.
Dr. Mohamed writes: "and i beleieve you have ph.d and masters of igonrance , racism, impolitness"
Could you show me where I have engaged in racism, if I have?
I have never attacked you. I have just civilly and rightfully expressed my opinion about Prophet Muhammad, a certified pedophile.
Dr. Muhamed writes: "you should ask some one to adopt you and raise you again, because you are in bad need to know hhow to respect and behave youself"
I need to know to "respect" whom? You mean a pedophile from 7th century Arabia who wants to take overy my country and institute Sharia law, because said pedophile hallucinated it to be the immutable word of god and a bunch of idiotic "believers" believed in this rubbish? You mean an assassin who killed people he did not like, and destroyed my country in the Middle East? You mean a speculator/monopolist merchant whose followers blow up 130 innocent people in an Iraqi marketplace in the name of ISLAM?
Get a life Dr. Muhamed, and join civilization. If you dont like Canada, then get out and go back to the land of Muhammedans. We don't need you, neither do we need your PhD in "Islamic Science" - an oxymoron.
Posted by: kazemi | 2006-02-18 11:25:42 PM
As I mentioned before, I was born in the Middle East as a Christian and I know that the Islamists have no respect for non-Muslims. They offend all non-Muslims on the loud speakers of their mosques' and on TV. Not to mention the long history of destruction of churches and non-Muslim places of worship.
this link will explain more:
Just today Muslims killed Christians and destroyed churches.
I tell you Islam is hypocritical, arrogant and bent on destroying others.
Not to mention how stupid and idiotic for them to create a crisis over cartoons.
I left the Middle East and came here for Freedom and be away from the Islamic culture.
Enough is Enough! If they don't want freedom or integrate with others, then they can leave us all in peace.
Muslims, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR FEEDOM ANY MORE.
Read the article from the National post:
Cultures collide: Muslim immigrants will be expelled from Europe unless they reverse the growing perception of them as a social threat
Posted by: HY | 2006-02-19 12:13:42 AM
In the name of Allah.
It is not new.We know that the most of the idiots of the west hate us.That is very old.They have nothing in thier bible talk about love ,all they know is Jesus loves you,Jesus dies for you.Listen idiots I gonna give u chance to know your dirty bible .1 samuel 15:33 (Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' ") so it is not new .your riligon is for hate no peace.and all the prphets in your bibles are gays.even your Jesus in the bible with gay .he wash the legs of his disciples and he was naked .they had seen his butt
and may be.... I dont know.Idiots read the song of songs in your unholy bible .you gonna see your Idiot God describe lady even by her ...I dont wanna say it.Mohamed the prophet the greatest man ever .who the hell you are to talk about him.you just some christian idiots worship the lamb.your bible says about your god he is lamb.the king of lamb lololol lololol
Posted by: Eng.Osama | 2006-02-19 8:58:31 AM
Actually we don't hate people like you, we pity them. And the fact if you don't change your ways most of your ancestors and your homelands are going to be laid waste. Being Canadian I can't speak to it, but my friends to the south still have the biggest guns. After listening to drivel from the likes of you, if they decide to use them it won't cause me any loss of sleep.
Our bible, your bible. I'm sick of hearing about it. Keep running your mouth. Go hump a camel Osama.
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-02-19 9:17:14 AM
Dan: Not sure what Sunday School you went to, but your facts are wrong. Christians have always maintained that Jesus is the Son of God. The Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three in one. 'God sent his Son into the World...'
Jesus said: 'I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me'. Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Just because you are ignorant of Christianity, don't make false claims to Dr. mohammed about it, it certainly does not help the discussion.
Posted by: MarkAlta | 2006-02-19 9:31:41 AM
That is how christian imagine thier God
it is bad for us but .you have to see your selfhttp://youtube.com/w/Gay-God?v=xlWw0MYEYSw&search=gay
Posted by: mesh mesh ia 7meer | 2006-02-19 9:34:08 AM
Now that was funny... or no, actually I am extremely offended!! I demand that video be taken down or I shall be forced to begin a rampage!! I will burn mosques, behead a few people, rape your sister... on second thought I will stick to the killing. You people are amazing.
Actually it was quite humorous. May the fleas of a thousand camels afflict you. Praise Allah!
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-02-19 9:53:21 AM
That is the peace in the holy bible
Am not gonna say anything without proof or plea
am not like the fathers in your churches who rape the kids in the churches and all of you know that
but I gonna show some love in the bible .halahoya
halahoya halahoya....lol http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/05/02/hk.priests/
1*Ezekiel 9(and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."
2* Psalm 137:9(Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.0
3*(And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. )Numbers 31
4*1 samuel 15:3(3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.)
I have alot of the love in the bible
Posted by: Eng.Osama | 2006-02-19 10:03:47 AM
I did not make that site it is your people christian like you, not me
Posted by: Eng.Osama | 2006-02-19 10:05:41 AM
That is the greatest man ever
Posted by: mesh mesh ia 7meer | 2006-02-19 10:14:43 AM
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