The Shotgun Blog
Thursday, October 20, 2005
Ruin a Dipper's day
Go vote in the NDP Youth poll on the following question: "In your opinion which federal leader has done the best job of standing up for students?"
UPDATE: Stephen Harper has a commanding lead on the NDP website. Keep up the voting!
UPPERDATE: When you're all done voting, go and caption this picture of Jack Layton.
UPPESTDATE: Somebody woke up the NDP webmaster! The fix is in!
Posted by Stephen Taylor on October 20, 2005 | Permalink
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Done did do it! You do it done, too. Funny, eh?
In your opinion which federal leader has done the best job of standing up for students?
Your vote was recorded.
Paul Martin (Liberal)
3% (5 votes)
Stephen Harper (Conservative)
63% (106 votes)
Jack Layton (NDP)
34% (58 votes)
Total votes: 169
(08:35 PM EDT)
Posted by: maz2 | 2005-10-20 6:37:42 PM
Federal leaders & students? Silly me, I thought education was a provincial matter.
Posted by: Kathryn | 2005-10-20 8:20:41 PM
Having the Liberals and NDP listed separately in this poll is unfair. They're the same party.
Posted by: Scott | 2005-10-20 8:29:13 PM
So far, Harper hasn't done anything for students. But that still puts him ahead of Martin and Layton, who are about to destroy the non-Ontario economy with the Kyoto Accord. When that comes through, schools, colleges and universities outside of Ontario will have to close because the provinces can't afford to keep them open. After that, only the rich can afford an education. Kyoto will send non-Ontario back to the 19th century. So much for social progress!
The $10b a year that could have been spent on education will instead be sent to Third World dictators who signed Kyoto, and will use the money on luxury goods and military hardware to oppress their people and neighbors.
This is why Alberta has to secede. We have a lifestyle to maintain, and the rich Ontarians must not be allowed to ruin it...AGAIN. Do it for our future.
Posted by: Scott | 2005-10-20 8:53:14 PM
Is anyone else deeply disturbed by the cultish photo on the front page of the Young Dippers site?
Posted by: JM | 2005-10-20 8:58:18 PM
What do Canadians, especially students, need done for them? Are they and their parents some kind of congenital idiots, who despite their high academic scores, are incapable of finding and paying for an education?
Posted by: Justzumgai | 2005-10-20 9:14:48 PM
Well, for one Justzumgai... I wouldn't mind having the personal exemption raised to $15,000 for my personal income taxes!
Posted by: Stephen Taylor | 2005-10-20 9:16:09 PM
Tax cuts - very good. In which areas are you going to cut government spending? Because you're wasting everyone's time (and money) if you don't.
Posted by: Justzumgai | 2005-10-20 10:04:49 PM
Justzumgai is right. It's like when you're doing sound for a live band. When someone asks for more monitor, the appropriate response is "who do you want me to turn down"?
Posted by: EBD | 2005-10-20 11:08:16 PM
Oh no ... the dippers are fighting back:
In your opinion which federal leader has done the best job of standing up for students?
Paul Martin (Liberal)
Stephen Harper (Conservative)
Jack Layton (NDP)
Total votes: 1528
Posted by: MSYB | 2005-10-20 11:41:11 PM
What's CalgaryGrit's line? Conservatives: winning Internet polls, not elections, since 1993.
Posted by: JKelly | 2005-10-21 2:47:13 AM
That's the one... and we're usually pretty good at it, however this time they woke up the NDP webmaster!
Posted by: Stephen Taylor | 2005-10-21 2:55:14 AM
I love the CPC because I think it's a great idea to crap on kids who want to get involved in politics. Stupid little bastards. Why aren't they drinking the CPC kool-aid?
Posted by: Don | 2005-10-21 8:47:25 AM
We aren't crapping on them, Don. It's just that we know that most will grow up and become Conservatives someday.
Posted by: Kate | 2005-10-21 9:58:04 AM
Or if you'd like to ruin a Conservatives day you can point them to a graph of polling results (can't post a link... it's at http://roamnomore.blogspot.com) since 2001 that clearly shows:
1) the Conservative has done nothing to gain voters support
2) the only reason the Liberals are in a minority is because of their own stupidity rather than anything the Conservatives have done
3) the Greens and NDP are the only parties that have actually shown consistent growth in the polls since 2000/2001...
You guys are never going to win as long as you have a do-nothing, uninspiring, unoriginal leader. I'm reading the Secret Tapes book... and it's clear to me that the reason Mulroney was in power for so long as less to do with his "Conservatism" and much much more to do with his eloquence, leadership, passion and speaking ability.
Harper has absolutely NONE of those... my sincere advice to Conservative party people here is this:
Dump Harper and find yourself a real leader who can drive Canadians forward. Otherwise, it's more likely that the Bloc and NDP will take over the spot as Official Opposition, and we'll be stuck with the Liberals forever.
Posted by: Chris Alemany | 2005-10-21 10:16:45 AM
Chris A you make reference to “ you guys” and tell “us” what we need. Which of coarse is what central planners do. You say we need “eloquence, leadership, passion, speaking ability”. Hmmm an interesting set of priorities that you think would help “us”.
But why would you want to help “us” win?
I sure don’t want to help you win.
Also conservatives by definition don’t want to be led. For too long central planners have led us. Like Mr Dithers, who can talk "eloquently with passion” all day but actually does nothing.
We champion the individual you champion the collective. Therefore your set of priorities aren’t much good to “us” if we first don’t have a philosophy of small government and freeing up business to compete in a global economy blah blah blah.
I realize these dismal economic references are not the passionate excitement you’re looking for because it means the era of adolescence is going to be over and we’re going to have to grow up and become a real nation.
But my God even the new Separatist Manifesto can understand the need to not let government unions run the country. Have a look at this….
You say passion I say ration - the amount of government intervention in our lives before it’s too late. Irony of ironies Bouchard was once a Red Tory, maybe he’s a prodigal son? Bring him back, I think Harper can work with this guy and Klien and Campbell. Plus John Tory will soon replace lying McGuinty- Let’s roll!
How’s that for passion?
Posted by: nomdenet | 2005-10-21 11:43:43 AM
Well said nomdenet.
You've got my vote.
Posted by: Stephen Taylor | 2005-10-21 12:11:14 PM
Chris A, when you say "we'll be stuck with the Liberals forever" you must mean Ontario.
I don't believe Albertans will put up with another Ontario installed NDP/Liberal government.
Posted by: Speller | 2005-10-21 12:32:34 PM
Speller: "I don't believe Albertans will put up with another Ontario installed NDP/Liberal government."
So what are you going to do.. seperate... come on, get real. You and I both know that while there may be plenty of unhappiness in Alberta, actually seperating is a whole 'nother ball of wax.
"Also conservatives by definition don’t want to be led"
Well, unfortunately it is clear that even enlisting the support of every single "conservative" in Canada won't win you an election... because it seems that "conservatives" only make up about 30-40 percent of the population at most.
The only way you're going to win is by having the leader of your party convince others to follow him when thye might not follow the "Conservative" party as a whole.
Canadians respond to leadership... Trudeau was a crappy, even destructive politician, but he knew how to fire people up. Same with Mulroney.. and same even with Chretien in some circles...
that's how you get "broad based" support... that is, enough support to actually form a majority.
The only other way to do that is to create a real policy that people can understand.
Right now Harper and the Conservatives are selling nothing but scandal and Liberal droppings... what's their platform? Do they have one? I honestly have no idea anymore...
Why would Canadians vote for someone they know nothing about?
You're right.. I don't want the conservatives to win... so don't ask me why I'm telling you this. But I find it infinitely more constructive than just yelling "RIGHTIES SUCK".
Posted by: Chris Alemany | 2005-10-21 1:19:32 PM
Chris A, only 30-40 % you say? And what percentage have the Librono$$ been ruling with?
30-40% is all we need in this country as long as you Dippers still have a death rattle.
Meanwhile here’s our policy. It will take effort to understand which is what separates those that have a need to be led, from conservative individualists who, as I mentioned, have a strong desire to make their own choices.
As you can see the policy is comprehensive not narrow. Admittedly it’s a handicap conservatives suffer from – being comprehensive. Which makes it tough for the CBC to air until we’re into an election. Even then I doubt if that taxpayer-funded distortion will give us a hearing. Therefore Harper is spending time raising a lot of money to fight you guys with. What’s Jack doing when he’s not propping up Martin? Jack knows his mug shot days are short so he’s posing a lot – good.
Finally I will extend an olive branch. At one point I thought the NDP stood on the left and we stood on the right and the Librano$$ stood for nothing. I didn’t agree with the NDP but at least you had principals you believed in and you fought for them even knowing they wouldn’t win you power. Was I wrong?
I have a selfish reason for mentioning this. (Conservatives are selfish in an Ayn Rand sort of way). If we can’t win a majority by sticking to our principals we may have to sit down and chat with the NDP. That chat should be mostly about trying to save the country from corruption.
If that were all we did together in power, wouldn’t that be something extremely worthwhile for Canada?
Posted by: nomdenet | 2005-10-21 2:05:44 PM
That's great that you can produce a link, but when are the Conservatives that actually spend time in front of Canadians going to start saying anything? Most canadians will *not* go to a website, they need to hear this policy loud and clear from the people who claim to be pushing it. And so far, all I've heard from Stephen Harper the past 6 months is
"We're going to bring down this government"
"I'm eating lots of hotdogs with ordinary Canadians"
"I'm just a regular Canadian Joe"
"I'm going to fight those nasty Liberals"
"Those Liberals are just a bunch of liars"
"Our party is not corrupt like the Liberals"
blah blah blah.
Substance.. SUBSTANCE... that's what's needed in the message..not more bashing... I agree that the Liberals do just as much bashing, if not more, but yet, there is no question about where the Liberals, and NDP, stand... they make their positions very well know. The BLoc does too... but it's position is that of seperatist rather than political. The Conservatives, frankly, we have no idea... so people are free to make stuff up like "all Conservatives are racists" "all Conservatives are rednecks".... Stephen Harper isn't doing enough to convince Canadians otherwise...
"If we can’t win a majority by sticking to our principals we may have to sit down and chat with the NDP. That chat should be mostly about trying to save the country from corruption.
If that were all we did together in power, wouldn’t that be something extremely worthwhile for Canada?"
I would not be opposed to that.. and i agree that a minority government controlled by a coalition of the Conservatives and NDP would, on the surface seem very strange... but in reality could produce a very constructive environment that would be "middle of the road" enough to please a very large swath of Canadians.
It would effectively beat down the Liberals enough so that they lost their grip on power and then hopefully got a dose of humility. And it would at the same time bring in new blood.
THe problem is that right now the Left/NDP has a very VERY negative view of the Conservative party. So any move on the part of Jack Layton to indicate that he would form an alliance with the Conservatives (especially Stephen Harper) would, I think, lead to the decimation of the NDP caucus.
That doesn't mean, however, that it could never happen. If a more "progressive minded", or at least "progressive looking" Conservative leader came about who didn't have the stigma that Stephen Harper has about him, then it could work.
It would take a lot of work on the part of both parties.
a) Conservatives would still have to come out with some sort of platform that was definitely out there and recognizable and not completely distasteful to anyone outside the right-leaning sphere.
b) Jack Layton would have to expend a ton of energy convincing both his hardcore supporters *and* left-leaning Liberal supporters that the "deal with the devil" wouldn't just be about handing the government to a Conservative PM because of liberal corruption. It would be about forming a coalition that was both progressive and conservative (sudo-pun intended).
The left wing electorate especially would have to be reassured to the point where they were confident casting their vote for the NDP instead of the Liberals and that doing so wouldn't create a Conservative majority.
So in short, yes, I think your suggestion could work... but it would be a very very delicate process, and it would require, I think, a definite change of leadership on the Conservative side (Peter McKay comes to mind)
Posted by: Chris Alemany | 2005-10-21 4:44:15 PM
Well thanks Chris A for all the helpful hints on “substance”.
Maybe we should hire you as our crispy policy writer. They say the left side of the brain works better in the NDP. Plus, as a by-product you would single handedly fill our entire quota for left-brain diversification. … (see, we can be fun)
I’ve already agreed with you that we know exactly where the NDP stands, it hasn’t moved in decades, so it’s a little easier for you folks.
But I am surprised that you say “there’s no question where the Liberals stand”. Unless you mean they always stand wherever the latest poll stands - the one over by the fire hydrant.
But then you say two conflicting things about conservatives;
You have no idea where we stand on anything.
Yet you say you have a very negative view of our policies?
But how can you be so negative if you don’t know what the policies are, because they’re too long to read on our site?
“Progressive” is only a word, it’s not action. Hint: conservatives like to act; we don’t talk much (although I’m getting a bit carried away, I admit, especially if this damn thing posts twice again)
But look at the French they like to talk about existentialism on the Left Bank and all it gets them is double-digit unemployment. France and Germany are falling apart. We prefer good paying jobs to talk.
But I do have to agree; Liberals are better talkers then we are.
But lets get back to action. What action can we, the only 2 principled parties take together to save the country before Alberta, Quebec and now Newfoundland at $60 a barrel – separate. What actions do you propose we could agree on?
I think we already agreed to fix corruption. That will take 2 years non-stop. It’s horrible. Gomery has only found 5% of it.
How about we also agree to stop handing out subsidies to the corporate welfare bums? Not just Stomach and Desmarais, all of them, they’re hypocrites.
In exchange, we’d want to drop taxes for corporations so they can keep hard earned capital and attract new capital and make Canada more competitive with India and China.
Have a look at this. Doesn’t this announcement scare you? We can’t just sit and watch this happen….
“Cisco, the worlds largest Internet company, yesterday announced it's biggest non-USA investment in India because it has an English language skilled population and its economy would soon be bigger then Europe's. The world is changing, markets are changing.”
Chris A our 2 parties are not popular enough partly because we still have ethics, we don’t buy-off people. But we both love Canada and we hate the corruption. Let’s do something instead of debating meaningless words like “progressive”. Let the Liberals be the debating team out of power, they’ll have lots of time.
Finally, we promise to put you in the CBC so you can become GG.
No, just kidding.
Seriously,we need to make all appointments open. That’s messy and chaotic; democracy is messy when it’s open to the public and the press.
(Apologies if this get double posted. Honest, I’m not doing anything but pushing the Publish button once)
Posted by: nomdenet | 2005-10-21 6:32:42 PM
Looking at those poor kids makes me sad. More naive minds influenced for evil. What a shame.
Posted by: Mallard | 2005-10-21 11:30:43 PM
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