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Monday, June 27, 2005

The RCMP and unintended consequences

In order to meet gender and racial hiring goals, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have skewed the application system:

Just to get an interview, white males needed a score of 115 on the police aptitude test, women needed a 96 and visible minority candidates an 86.

So of course, I have to conclude that if a female Mountie or a Mountie from a visible minority is investigating a crime, that officer is more likely to make mistakes that might jeopardize a prosecution, is more likely to make poor decisions in high risk situations and thus endangering  herself or himself, fellow officers, and the public at large, and is more likely to suffer from character flaws, making that officer more susceptible to corrupting influences.

And the corollary is now true: in my mind, the hiring policy has made it so I look at any white male Mountie as being made from far better material than his female or minority peers, and I am more likely to overlook or dismiss evidence of problems with his discharge of his duties should any come to light.

Posted by Steve Janke on June 27, 2005 | Permalink

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"I commend the RCMP for their approach.There are people who have been denied opportunities for much too long simply because they don't show ability in their desired field. Our belated recognition as a society of the emotional wounds caused by... [Read More]

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» The 86% Solution from small dead animals
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Tracked on 2005-06-27 7:04:53 PM

Comments

I actually applied for the RCMP a couple of years ago -- passes all of my tests, but was given a sheet saying I would be on a waiting list as natives and women with lesser scores than myself would be going ahead of me -- it is complete reverese discrimination. It doesn't surprise me in our Liberal Canada.

Posted by: Chris | 2005-06-27 10:48:56 AM


That's not reverse discrimintation. It's just discrimination.

Actually, it's just stupid...

Posted by: Mike | 2005-06-27 11:05:23 AM


I commend the RCMP for their approach. There are people who have been denied opportunities for much too long simply because they don't show ability in their desired field. Our belated recognition as a society of the emotional wounds caused by overly strict hiring standards is a watershed event.

This more enlightened approach to hiring should be more broadly implemented, so as to include fire and rescue workers, surgeons, airline pilots, electricians, civil engineers, air-traffic controllers, S.W.A.T. team snipers, rodeo clowns...

Together, we can make this a better world.

Posted by: EBD | 2005-06-27 11:26:35 AM


LOL... damn, you conservatives have a dry sense of humor!

Posted by: random | 2005-06-27 11:32:09 AM


EBD. So you want to live in a socialist country? A country where people are not allowed to be treated equal? Then go live somewhere else.

There is no reason why a Canadian of any colour, born and schooled here, whose parents have supported Canada for years, whose relatives in all likelihood died keeping this country free, should have to take second place to anyone who has just immigrated here.

As for high scores on a police aptitude test, the top scores should definitely get first chance. Would you prefer to deal with a white mountie with a score of 115 or a minority with a score of 86 if your life or livelihood depended on it?

Posted by: John Crittenden | 2005-06-27 11:46:11 AM


Um, John, read my whole post. Slowly, and all the way to the end. Breathe the whole time.

Posted by: EBD | 2005-06-27 11:53:01 AM


John, EBD basically said what you said only served up with a big fat slab of sarcasm - so tongue-in-cheek he could be on a Toblerone commercial.

Posted by: Ham | 2005-06-27 11:53:31 AM


EBD. Well, you got me. I should have read your comment a second time. Hmm, wake up John.

Posted by: John Crittenden | 2005-06-27 11:55:31 AM


Hey Random,

Judging by John's response to EBD, not all fellow conservatives have a dry (or any) sense of humour... lol.

I'm sure John just read it too quick and is feeling a bit foolish (we've all been there.)

Posted by: Warwick | 2005-06-27 11:56:19 AM


*sigh*... I pointed it out hoping to spare some this ;-(

Posted by: random | 2005-06-27 11:56:44 AM


It's my fault too, John. I put a little too much Danish on it.

Posted by: EBD | 2005-06-27 11:57:40 AM


Maybe the RCMP quota system could be expanded to Live 8 participants - Here's a couple of examples:

Rejection Letter #1:
"Dear Bono, you are a very qualified mega-superstar but we note that Irish rock music has been overly dominated by white Irishmen and we're looking for some less talented non-white Irish rock bands to fix this terrible injustice. So you, the Edge and the other two guys will have to sit this one out."

Rejection Letter #2:
"Dear Tragically Hip Gord and guys - we love your music but let's face it - only angry white guys listen to it up at the cottage (which is also an area over-represented by whites) and on top of that you're band is all white guys, and that is what is truly tragic. In Canada we are ahead by a century on these sort of diversity issues and have found an unheard of urban group who didn't quite qualify for the Montreal Jazz festival but they are not only non-white but also billingual and so they will be taking your place in Barrie (assuming we still hold the thing in Barrie - that's another place that has way too many white people.)"

Posted by: Timmyz | 2005-06-27 12:05:01 PM


If I'm not mistaken, discrimination is actually supported by the Charter. See section 15.

Posted by: Johan i Kanada | 2005-06-27 12:12:18 PM


An aptitude test does not preclude you from becoming the very finest of police officers. People who scored 115 might be terrible police officers. Perhaps they failed the interview process, or the vision test, or the fitness test. There are more hurdles to jump then the aptitude test. The article latched onto one fact and ran with it to fulfill their biased thesis.

"Enforcement of Ottawa's gun controls has made the force less popular in places where it was once revered". Are you joking me? That's what happens when the police enforce laws. How many people want to give an officer a hug for writing them a speeding ticket?
The RCMP and every other police force support the gun registry. And indecently the RCMP has been trying to control guns in the west since their inception.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/R/Ro/Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police.htm

Posted by: Gamblog | 2005-06-27 12:50:23 PM


Gamblog,

People are less than impressed by the RCMP upholding a very bad law that is very unpopular in the areas the RCMP are seen the most! The West, the North.

I and one more thought how many "white guys" passed up the thought of joining the RCMP because they knew it was fultile effort to try. How many even better people did the force lose to this bad policy!

Posted by: Spencer | 2005-06-27 1:16:20 PM


Gamblog: The RCMP Commissioner supports the gun registry (I suspect the members have a different view) because the Force gets its money from the Liberals who created the registry and refuse to disband it.

The same reasoning applies to most police chiefs who publicly support the registry--the city politicians who fund them also support the registry.

It's politics, not reasoned support.

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins | 2005-06-27 1:28:38 PM


Security plan announced
OTTAWA (CP) - Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan has announced a comprehensive plan for North American security and prosperity.

canoenews.....


Librano$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
All's Ok now. Annie-got-your-guns has it all under control. Back to work, everybody.
BTW, this is her opening shot in her campaign for President/Chairman of the Republic of North America. You heard it here, first: Scoop for WS.


Posted by: maz2 | 2005-06-27 1:41:46 PM


The RCMP Commissioner was appointed by the LIberals was he not? So this means he gets his opinions from the Desmaraises, et. al. These are the guys who also support the UN, want to disarm American citizens and form a one world government governed, of course, by them, because, well, they know what's better for us than we do.

And these are the same guys who are/were behind the Oil for Food fraud it seems. Great bunch of people. And they're running Canada.

Posted by: John Crittenden | 2005-06-27 1:45:40 PM


First Sea Lord to 2nd sea Loard and others concerned:

There must be no discrimination on grounds of race or colour [in the employment of Indians or Colonial natives in the Royal Navy]. In practice much inconvenience would arise if this theoretical equality had many examples. Each case must be judged on its merits, from the point of view of smooth administration. I cannot see any objection to Indians serving on H.M. ships where they are qualified and needed, or if their virtues so deserve, rising to be Admirals of the Fleet. But not too many of them please.

Winston Churchill 14 Oct. 1939

In similar vein:

First Lord to 2nd Sea Lord, Parliamentary Secretary, and Secretary:

Will you kindly explain to me the reasons which debar individuals in certain branches nfrom rising by merit to commissioned rank? If a cook may rise, why not an electrical artificer or an ordinance rating or a shipwright? If a telegrapher may rise, why not a painter? Apparently there is no difficulty with painters rising in Germany!

W.C. 7 Oct. 1939

Posted by: Wes Warner | 2005-06-27 2:14:16 PM


You know, this policy still doesn't embrace invisible minorities, like pixies, sprites, and certain ghosts.

Posted by: Brian J. | 2005-06-27 2:56:30 PM


More ill-conceived rattling on from Gamblog. For he-who-can't-read-and-comprehend-simultaneously, here it is again: Just to get an interview, white males needed a score of 115 on the police aptitude test, women needed a 96 and visible minority candidates an 86.

It is not the aptitude test that is the problem; it is the differing requirements on the aptitude test depending on your demographic. You talk about vision test...Huh? So are you saying it would be ok if white males needed a score of 20/20, women maybe 40/20 and visible minority just need to see fuzzy images? Would that be acceptable criteria for you? Or would you prefer your police officer to actually SEE?

Posted by: Ham | 2005-06-27 3:06:25 PM


My sister-in-law recently graduated from the RCMP Academy. She is a woman with a Metis background. At one point she was told that she had achieved a high enough score on whatever battery of tests she had to go through but since she didn't look "Metis-enough" her entry into the Academy was delayed. The discrimination is not only against white males but also against people of Metis ancestry who don't look the part. When you construct a police force based on looks rather than skills (and promote using the same criteria), it shouldn't be at all surprising that some people choose not to work there.

Posted by: Strong and Free in AB | 2005-06-27 3:52:03 PM


When is Alberta going to become the 51st of the United States of AmericA? The time is now.

Posted by: j.pickens | 2005-06-27 6:31:14 PM


Ten years ago, applicants to the RCMP in Albortia had to be bilingual. Are white anglo-saxon males considered to be a 'minority group' yet? (Don't worry- you soon will be!)

Posted by: dave | 2005-06-27 7:23:09 PM


You people are telling the truth about the RCMP and their recruiting practises. Now you also know why criminal prosecutions are being thrown out of court and in many cases are not getting to court because of mistakes made and incompetence. Don't forget the bilingual factor which is possibly the biggest problem where once again being bilingual is not enough but you must be French. Remember it was a minister in Mulroney government Masse that set up quotas that 25-30 % had to be french to reflect population numers. Quebec doesn't even employ the RCMP because they have their own provincial police force so the French RCMP are sent elsewhere in Canada.

Posted by: Peter Benyk | 2005-06-27 7:32:23 PM


The largest single minority in the world is the xy-chromasomed, clocking in at about 49%.

Posted by: Tony | 2005-06-27 7:36:09 PM


"There are more hurdles to jump then the aptitude test." Gamblog

So when did Joe Green change his name to Gamblog? Still doesn't understand the difference between then and than, I see.

As I see it the the vaunted Charter is only words so long as we have politically correct liberal morons running this forsaking God country.

It is disgusting that people in power are so cluelessly ignorant that they would openly discriminate against people for possessing characteristcs beyond their control. Where is their sense of fairness? And it is discouraging that people being discriminated against aren't fighting back.

Posted by: Terry Gain | 2005-06-27 9:09:08 PM


I think we need to start a movement to include "lack of ability" as a protected ground for discrimination in Section 15(2) of the Charter of Blights and Fiefdoms.

Why not?

The 1981-82 process deliberately did not include gay rights in the Charter, but we have had it written into law by the judiciary.

Why not incompetence? That's a disadvantage isn't it?

I feel discriminated against.

Jim

Posted by: JH | 2005-06-27 9:10:00 PM


"lack of ability" as a protected ground... Jim

It already is Jim, so long as you are willing to be a Liberal.

Posted by: Terry Gain | 2005-06-27 9:35:17 PM


maz, the Screecher announced that they will be COMING UP with a plan. The plan has a name (which I forget, as often happens when I listen to her dulcet tones), but no meat...

Time to ditch the mastiff & get a rottweiler or dobie, I guess.

Posted by: Candace | 2005-06-27 10:04:59 PM


Hhhmmm, let me see now.I came upon a minor collision between two RCMP cars tonight and noticed there were two women cops and 2 male cops(white, I think)Not sure if one was an Indian(native) or not. Based on the hiring criterion, who do you think ran into who. Regardless of that, I had to chuckle as they had the whole road blocked off to "investigate" this fender bender. If that happen to someone else they would tell them to get their cars the hell off the road and wait for them to show up.

Horny Toadf

Posted by: Horny Toad | 2005-06-27 10:50:07 PM


"An aptitude test does not preclude you from becoming the very finest of police officers. People who scored 115 might be terrible police officers. Perhaps they failed the interview process, or the vision test, or the fitness test. There are more hurdles to jump then the aptitude test. The article latched onto one fact and ran with it to fulfill their biased thesis"

So Gamblog, why have an appitude test at all. Lets just pick them other means. Like. maybe with the females we could pick the cutest.


Horny toad

Posted by: Horny toad | 2005-06-27 10:54:20 PM


j.pickens:

Anytime you want to, as far I'm concerned.

Posted by: fatman | 2005-06-27 11:52:27 PM


It's not just the RCMP. In Canada Revenue Agency, southern Ontario region, it was announced to us recently that employment equity would be used for staffing for all internal and external processes. that means if two people are qualified for the same position, and one has a vagina and/or a brown face, guess which one gets the promotion/hired? if they dumb the process down enough, no white males will get promoted/hired at all because the pool will be full of targeted groups. recruiters will have to provide a written explanation of why they did not use employement equity for every single instance they have to hire someone who is not in a targeted group. Angry, I'll send you the EE report later.

Posted by: civil servant | 2005-06-28 8:35:18 AM


I once inquired about a career in policing with the RCMP. The officer told me in no uncertain terms that I would not qualify unless I was an "indian woman".
The RCMP is in charge of keeping society safe. It would seem logical that you would want the most qualified applicants for this job.

Posted by: BJWD | 2005-06-28 8:38:12 AM


I once inquired about a career in policing with the RCMP. The officer told me in no uncertain terms that I would not qualify unless I was an "indian woman".
The RCMP is in charge of keeping society safe. It would seem logical that you would want the most qualified applicants for this job.

Posted by: BJWD | 2005-06-28 8:38:50 AM


um, I can't send you the document. Access to Information if you think it's interesting.

Posted by: civil servant | 2005-06-28 9:17:47 AM


"Campaign aims to boost RCMP recruitment
OTTAWA - A 28 per cent decline in the number of young people interested in joining the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has prompted the force to plan its first major recruiting campaign in Ontario and Quebec."

The rest of this article appeared recently in the National Post. Seems the RCMP are reaping what they sowed.

Posted by: Boudica | 2005-06-28 11:32:06 AM


That's what I like about John. Someone said he got it wrong, look again.

John looked again, and was confident enough to say . Oh I guess you are right afterall.

Sure seems easier to accept than a hot headed over - reaction. Debate is great when heads stay cool. 73s TG

Posted by: TonyGuitar | 2005-06-29 1:20:06 AM


I am just starting the joining process for the RCMP. Writing the first test in a few weeks. I am starting to see I am at a disadvantage being that my family is white and I have a penis.

Wow, what a great country we live in...

Posted by: Brendan | 2005-10-21 9:08:19 PM



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