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Tuesday, May 17, 2005

All bets are off

Now that Belinda has bailed looks like anything could happen. This budget may pass after all.

Posted by Greg Staples on May 17, 2005 | Permalink

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» Stronach crosses floor, takes Cabinet post from Being American in T.O.
May 17 - Thank goodness she lost the bid for CPC leadership (Stronach crosses the floor, joins Liberal cabinet.) I'm thinking some other strong things, too. 13:44 - CTV has a brief item on Harper's response in which attributed her... [Read More]

Tracked on 2005-05-17 12:57:18 PM

Comments

Just watching the news conference. The gallery actually laughed at the Prime Minister when he said the significance of Stronach's defection goes beyond the budget vote. That was weird. It's true what he said, but still, to hear the press gallery laugh was curious.

As for Stronach's defection? I saw kewl. The oligarchs align. No surprise here. We live in interesting times. Hand Belinda an envelope of cash, someone.

Posted by: Kevin Steel | 2005-05-17 8:55:45 AM


Steven Harper has lost his chance. I repeat what I've said all along, the Liberals will buy anyone to achieve their ends. BS Belinda Stronach is a turncoat. She should be tossed out of the Conservative Party immediately. Then Steven Harper and all his 'oh so smart' advisers better go back to school and learn how to play this game. If you want to fight in the streets you better be a street fighter. Martin always understood that there were enough whores to get out of this mess. Welcome to another ten years of Liberal government.

What bullshit this is. To hear of Stronach talk about the threat of separatism after what the Liberals have done over the years makes me puke.

Posted by: John Crittenden | 2005-05-17 8:56:20 AM


Sheesh, and we thought Layton was a whore! Such a difficult decision she had. Stand for honesty and integrity or sell out because Ontario is afaid of CPC. She is as offended by the corruption as any other Canadian, so she's going to climb right into bed with the thieves!!! WTF? Is MacKay next?
Harper has right to be REALLY angry about this one.

Posted by: Polly | 2005-05-17 8:57:13 AM


Simmer down folks.

Given the polls, do you not believe that her constituents support this decision? And if they don't they will get their chance to toss her out.

Given the general opposition around here to party voting and whipping, it is funny to see Conservatives complain when a MP thinks for themselves.

Posted by: tim | 2005-05-17 9:00:58 AM


And she's a Minister now... big suprise. Hope she wont have that job for too long (if Kilgour doesnt get the Darfur response he was looking for perhaps).

Wouldnt it be great if Belinda was a Minister for only 4 days? Perhaps that could be a record! She would have been exposed as a turncoat and had her political career ended in the span of a week.

Posted by: Steve Frost | 2005-05-17 9:01:05 AM


This is just disgusting. I really really hope that the west comes up with a strong regionally devoted party if the Liberals are re-elected. I don't want to be a part of this disfunctional country anymore.

Posted by: ld | 2005-05-17 9:05:42 AM


HAHAHAHAHahahahahahaha!

Well, maybe the third or so of Conservatives who thought she would be the best leader will follow her... If they trust her leadership, surely they trust it enough to go to the Liberals.

Now let the Conservatives be conservative, stop this game of pretending to be good enough to appeal to small-l liberals, and let conservative arguments win or lose on their own merits. Personally I think they will usually lose, but I have enough respect for real conservatives to say they at least deserve an opportunity to air their real views instead of always running scared from their own principles.

Posted by: donald | 2005-05-17 9:09:39 AM


What a disgusting display. The Paris Hilton of politics - I'm speechless.

Posted by: Scott Surgenor | 2005-05-17 9:10:40 AM


ld: Maybe we all should move back to Alberta and work toward the separation of Western Canada. Alberta is the one province that can actually stand on its own.

I don't feel like a Canadian anymore. I can't bring myself to identify with any of this. Did my ancestors die in two world wars for this? I don't think so.

Posted by: John Crittenden | 2005-05-17 9:12:36 AM


I'm suggesting that it's Power Corp/Desmarais behind Stonach's agenda.
Belinda is a puppet. What has she achieved on her own? She was 'head' of a corporation - but it was her father's corporation!! She was moved into politics by her father and his cronies! The fact that she lives her life as a puppet is her choice..and our problem. She does nothing on her own but does as she is told.

As noted - the corruption doesn't bother her..and she's being set up as 'an insider' who can tell us how evil Harper really is. So, the scare campaign is intact.

I'm saying that our political system has been corrupted, has been totally taken over by Power Corp, Desmarais etc..and they run the show. The political system is their upfront office - and they must control it. They are worried about maintaining their control. They are worried about the fact that they cannot run Harper and if the CPC is elected - they will lose a great deal of power in this country.

What's the scenario? I am musing, but I think that they are worried that the CPC might win the election..and they lose control of Ottawa. IF, IF, they felt that the CPC might lose, then they could leave Stronach in the CPC, to take over from Harper. So- why did they move her? And again, she doesn't think or do anything on her own.

They moved her to ensure that Martin wins the election. She will be his sidekick, informing everyone that she has the 'inside' truth about Harper...and his evil nature. She will be someone who has 'fled' the abuse of the CPC..and blah blah.
It's a brilliant tactic... and it's all about the corruption of our political system..and the utter and complete disappearance of democracy in Canada.

We thought Iraq was bad? How about Canada - run by the Power Corp/Desmarais Corporation, using the political system as their agency..

Posted by: ET | 2005-05-17 9:13:33 AM


Stronach's wants her constituents bribed with their own money while she moves to a party where she can feel more comfortable: lots of back room moves to enrich her friends and a second chance at party leadership(does it matter which party...probably not). Ego is everything and she gets a pay raise!

This incident shows why Canada will never vote in a conservative minority let alone a majority. Although there may be some small government conservatives most Canadians want the nanny state. They're happy with being bribed with someone else's money.They're happy being told what to think and what to do. They're happy to have their better's in Ottawa run their lives.

Most Tory MPs are also quite happy with big government which is why the CPC is so short on a different vision for Canada other than being more honest that the Liberals.

There will probably be an election and my bet is a slightly smaller Liberal minority suported by a slighly larger NDP with more intrusive big government and inevitably higher taxes coming.

Free Alberta...the only chance for real change.

Posted by: Michael Shannon | 2005-05-17 9:13:44 AM


It now seems that Belinda has used the Conservative party for her own political ends, and probably never had any interest in conservative principles. Her support for the bloated, pork-filled budget is just an excuse. I would be even angrier were I one of her constituents.

Posted by: Joel | 2005-05-17 9:14:35 AM


ld

Please. This country isn't dysfunctional. If you really believe that there are qualitatively better places to live, what is stopping you from moving there?

That kind of rhetoric is pointless.

Posted by: sally | 2005-05-17 9:15:17 AM


For someone not dependent on govt. handouts, the US is looking better and better.

Posted by: Mallard | 2005-05-17 9:21:15 AM


I love the land and the people in Alberta. We have a right to fair and equal treatment within Canada, which we don't receive. There are steps we should be taking right now, rights that belong to the provinces, such as forming our own Alberta Provincial Police, and Alberta Pension Plan.

Belinda said that she doesn't think Stephen Harper understands Canada. Well I don't understand a country that elects corruption.

Posted by: ld | 2005-05-17 9:26:11 AM


Sally, I'll turn the question back on you.

If you believe that the country isn't dysfunctional, then why would a separatist party merit mention in the Stronach statement?

This country is sleepwalking to disintegration.

The only saving grace is that Quebec will separate on Paul Martin's watch. I don't think there's any way to stop the process now, and if it happened under a Conservative government the collective amnesia of the Canadian mentality would forever place blame at Stephen Harper's feet.

Posted by: Kate | 2005-05-17 9:26:53 AM


HA! Now this is humerous. After last November this forum was chalk-full of people ripping the "Liberal Exodus" from the US.

Now, when things don't appear to be going your way, there is already talk again of Western Separation and moving to the US.

Take a good look around you. Is your life really that bad? Get a grip.

The voters are always right. If the Conservative Party can't convince people to vote for them that is their fault, not the voters.

Posted by: GranTeague | 2005-05-17 9:28:31 AM


COOL!!!

Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith was on TV!!!
Imagine my shock. I turned on the TV to CTVnewsnet and there it was before my eyes, Star Wars!

There sat an evil, corrupt old man, the Emperor. Beside him, his blonde Sith appentice. Darth Sell-out, a former Jedi who desired power over anything else. Power not earned or for it to work for. Power that would be lazily handed to her.

Sadly we know how this story ends. The Sith destroy the Jedi. And the universe falls under the control of an evil Empire.

Posted by: Steve B | 2005-05-17 9:35:08 AM


"The only saving grace is that Quebec will separate on Paul Martin's watch."

Harper-Duceppe 2005!

Posted by: donald | 2005-05-17 9:35:30 AM


Thank goodness.

One less red tory pig to ruin the CPC. Go with this and use it as proof the liberals are political prostitutes.

Posted by: Daniel | 2005-05-17 9:46:50 AM


"We thought Iraq was bad? How about Canada - run by the Power Corp/Desmarais Corporation, using the political system as their agency."

Yeah I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Iraq was worse.

Or, wait, let me play this game:

The Libranos and their puppetmasters in North Korea have torn a page out of Mein Kampff! Where Hitler gassed the Jews, Heil Martin is gassing trillions of our stolen tax dollars! If they aren't buying the votes of stupid people who disagree with me in Grand Theft Ottawa, they are murdering babies and bombing churches! Don't even try to rationalize out of this one, Lieberal!

Posted by: donald | 2005-05-17 9:53:07 AM


Why am I not surprised that the most left-leaning Conservative has jumped ship to the Liberals? In having Stronach leave the Conservatives, at least the party isn't losing out on any of its caucus intellectuality.

I guess this is what happens when her political handlers loosen her leash, and let her start thinking on her own. Only Stronach is dumb enough to make the decision to slide over to the Fibs. Thanks for confirming what we already knew.

Now that Stronach is a Minister of the Crown (HR & Skills Development), I only hope that she decides she wants to lead the Liberals next.

Posted by: Travis | 2005-05-17 9:58:50 AM


Belinda leaving is a win-win for both parties.

By leaving the Conservatives and joining the Liberals, she's raised the average level of ethics in both parties.

I am moving to her riding in August. Anyone want to be that I'll be the only person in the Conservative riding association? Everyone there is one of her people, and you know they'll all be moving with her.

Perhaps a run up to her riding office tonight is warranted- to drop off the bag with thirty pieces of silver.

Posted by: BC Monkey | 2005-05-17 10:07:35 AM


Blonde hair really does cover a multitude of sins, eh boys?

Well, I hope all her (male) conservative supporters feel stupid now. She was never a real conservative anyway, but few of us dared to say so, lest we get trashed as "anti-gay bigots" by our own kind.

Those supporters should just follow her to the Liberals or vote Libertarian or something.

Oh, and her boyfriend is so obviously gay it isn't even funny. He may not even know it yet, but it is so obvious to everybody else.

I'll be right about that too, just wait.

Posted by: Kathy Shaidle | 2005-05-17 10:10:41 AM


The Liberals must have been desperate to prematurely cancel their "worst-kept-secret" sleeper cell. What will her boyfriend do now? Any other Reds want to go? Its a seller's market out there!

Posted by: John Chittick | 2005-05-17 10:16:38 AM


At the risk of repeating myself--okay, I am repeating myself--CTV Newsnet tried to spin it that the press gallery was laughing WITH the Prime Minister, but I watched it again and they were laughing AT him. It’s like no one--I mean nooobody at a basic, gut level--really believes what Paul Martin says. The tiny moment was really refreshing.

I think at some level Paul Martin is starting to realize this as well since he has developed a stuttering, hesitant way of speaking, filled with umms and uhs; like he's afraid at any moment the regular din of the crowd will suddenly go silent and then the voice of a little kid will be heard saying, "But mommy, he has no clothes on!"

I mean, he actually blushed when the gallery laughed and said, "No... really..."

Posted by: Kevin Steel | 2005-05-17 10:20:10 AM


Kathy,

What intelligent points you make:

1) Blondes are dumb
2) Males voters only voted for her because of her looks
3) Peter MacKay is gay

Thank you for your valuable insights and for raising the level of discourse in Canadian Politics.

Posted by: Sally | 2005-05-17 10:20:22 AM


You people are retarded. Waaa Waaaa. Belinda doesn't love us. Waaa!

If you remember the Star Wars story, the Empire falls. The Conservatives need to incite the Ewoks to rebel. Use the force.

Posted by: John | 2005-05-17 10:23:03 AM


Yes Wasn't it Great when you all openly mocked and tried to humiliate Belinda after the convention a few months back? Wasn't that a great way to keep her in line? You remember... calling her Prom Queen and such.

She got you boys!
She got you good.

Sucks to be you.

Hahahahahahaha!

Posted by: The Exiled | 2005-05-17 10:27:23 AM


Good riddance to this parasite. I only hope she becomes Liberal leader someday; it would be nice to have a prime minister sit below Kim Campbell on the all-time list.

Posted by: Rob Huck | 2005-05-17 10:33:39 AM


It's so highly ironic that only days after I heard Conservatives proclaiming that they would sweep Ontario with all those "small-L" Conservatives they're now claiming that they don't need them after all.

You guys simply don't *get it*. Regional political parties just can't work in Canada.

What are you all going to do when energy prices stop creating the windfall of funds that they do now (and you know they will.. it's called Economics 101!).

Are you going to want to seperate from Canada then??

The only viable Federal parties are those that are able to appeal to a Majority of Canadians! The CPC simply doesn't fit the bill. And Stephen Harper is basically the antethisis of a Canadian Prime Minister.

Posted by: Chris Alemany | 2005-05-17 10:45:54 AM


"The only viable Federal parties are those that are able to appeal to a Majority of Canadians!"

In other words, let's reduce this country to a one-party state. Attitudes like that are why the unity of this country is at risk. It's called Political Science 101.

Posted by: Rob Huck | 2005-05-17 10:50:35 AM


If BS had courage she would vote against her caucus or sit as an independent. Martin said he doesn't think 1 vote will make a difference on Thursday. If Bush said something so stupid he'd be roasted.

Posted by: Condi08 | 2005-05-17 10:55:32 AM


"The only viable Federal parties are those that are able to appeal to a Majority of Canadians!"

But for crying out loud the Liberals don't!!! How many seats do they have in the west? What percentage of Western votes do they have? A couple percent? The political map is completely blue out here. What did they get in the last election, 38%? So that means 60% of Canadians voted against the Liberals!!!

Posted by: ld | 2005-05-17 11:01:57 AM


I think it's important to note that Stronach has never really been attacked by anyone up until this point -- not by the media, not by the Conservatives, not even by the Liberals -- and I would like to see how this billionaire baby with leadership aspirations deals with some real criticism.

I also think it's more than appropriate that she was handed the portfolio of Human Resources and Skills Development, the same Ministry which ended the career of another politician who was previously handled with kid gloves up to her ascension -- Jane Stewart.

Diane Ablonczy will eat her alive.

Posted by: Rob Huck | 2005-05-17 11:08:37 AM


Liberal vote went up in Alberta last election.

In a multiparty democracy it is doubtful any party would capture a majority of the vote. The electorate is split too many ways.

Both the Liberals and the old Progressive Conservatives had significant regional blocs inside their party organizations. It is possible to have a federalist party and still have strong regional affiliations. But first you have to sell federalism to the region you represent.

Posted by: John | 2005-05-17 11:12:00 AM


Stronach's move was sensible, honourable, decent and smart. Her over-arching loyalty to Canada, and Canadian values, at a time of great historical moment, will place her securely in the top tier of great Canadians.

The Conservative Party is an interesting experiment whose time has run out.

Canada has no interest in, or need for, any values which are neither liberal, nor Liberal.

Rodney Wade
Port Alberni, BC.

Posted by: Rodney | 2005-05-17 11:27:35 AM


No Sally, you're the dumb one. See, blonde hair has a funny way of rendering otherwise intelligent men completely gaga. I don't know how many conservative males I've met/read who were reduced to virginal schoolboys by Belinda's "good looks" and were happy to go along with her numerous not very conservative ideas because "she'd make such a cool leader" "She'd help us attract this or that demographic."

Today I hope they've all come to their senses and are staring guiltily at their shoes at this news.

Blonde hair doesn't make women dumb. It makes _men_ dumb.

And yeah, McKay's gay for sure.

Posted by: Kathy Shaidle | 2005-05-17 11:31:00 AM


Is corruption a Liberal or liberal value?

Posted by: ld | 2005-05-17 11:31:43 AM


Excuse me, Rodney. I am Canadian and I have no interest in Liberal values. Who the hell are you to tell me my values are not "Canadian"? Who the hell is an opportunist like Stonach to tell me my values are uncanadian?

Posted by: Rob Huck | 2005-05-17 11:33:56 AM


As an outsider looking in, my conclusion is that the Federation is doomed. Might as well get on with it.

Posted by: Texan | 2005-05-17 11:34:11 AM


The Liberals have lost the moral authority to govern but - the real deal with the devil was with the Bloc - Canada is too precious to risk! Harper blew it.

Posted by: Jim F | 2005-05-17 11:40:56 AM


Just for reference, here's a review of the Newmarket-Aurora results from the 2004 election. (I've seen comments elsewhere claiming that BS won a landslide in her riding last time)

BS: 21 818 votes (42.41%)
Liberal Candidate 21 129 (41.07%)
NDP 5111 (9.93%)

Eked out a win by less than 700 votes.

My guess is that she can easily win as a Liberal.

Posted by: BC Monkey | 2005-05-17 11:44:27 AM


So, sally thinks because I am unhappy with the way country is set up and governed, I should think about moving elsewhere.

Rodney thinks because I do not embrace either Lib or lib values, I'm not fit to be Canadian.

Damn, I'm just warm and fuzzy here feeling the tolerance and inclusion.

It would nice to hear/read once, just once, what is so wonderful about Lib or lib values, rather than the usual attacks for not agreeing with said values.

If these values are so wonderful, a supporter should have no problem articulating them. Instead, it's a case of "agree with me or I'll call you names".

Posted by: Kathryn | 2005-05-17 11:51:45 AM


Stephen Harper's greatest problem is not the defection of Liberal mole Belinda Stronach. His worst enemies are mainstream Canadian media who are quite content to come down on the side of Liberal corruption as they did in the last election.
Now if we only had a FOX news type entity in Canada to compliment the Western Standard . . . . . . !
Take of the gloves Stephen don't kick the chair . . . . . . . . . kick Librano ass!

Posted by: Joe Molnar | 2005-05-17 11:57:39 AM


Kathryn,

I have zero opposition to divergent opinions, values, etc. I'd love to see a strong Conservative Party - I personally think that Reform was terrific for the country (see Bob's comments in the other thread)

My statement was made to this quotation by lb:

"I don't want to be a part of this disfunctional country anymore."

The question is, then, why is he/she?

Posted by: Sally | 2005-05-17 11:57:43 AM


Pont # 1: What was it that Tony Clement called her during the leadership campaign? "Paul Martin in a Cocktail dress" truer words were never spoken!

Point #2: The next Scott Brison.

I would have thought that Stronach would have wanted an election. That She'd want the
Libs to win another minority. this is Harper's last chance, and he knows it.
If he's not holding the keys to 24 Sussex on June 28th, then he'd beter have
his letter of resignation in hand.

And Guess Who was poised to become the new leader?

Like Brison she'll shill for Martin, and like Brison, can no longer aspire to the prime ministership. They won't make a defector PM.
I never liked her, and the threat of her pulling a coup and stealing the leadership caused me to hold off renewing my membErship.
I would not be involved with a party potentially led by Paris Hilton.

pOINT #3:First of all, don't rule out an election just yet... Martin might think that
he CAN eke out a majority.
If he does, he will try to lose the vote and fall on his budget.

He will pimp her as evidence that he is serious about
correcting Adscam, since he put her in charge of the Gomery commission and
democratization.

In QC: he will play the separatist card: he will run it as if it was a
referendum, in that he will say "all right.. so 2004 was a protest vote. I
heard your message. I won the confidence of a prominent opposition member wh
is now in charge of making sure it gets cleaned up. (nb: Stronach herself is
popular in QC). Now listen up. A second mass vote for the Bloc will be spun
as an out and out indication that Quebecers want sovereignty. If you sat out
the last vote , or voted Bloc as a protest, please think it through very
carefully, and vote for us . We can't have another parliament like this one
where obstructionists have prevented anything meaningful from getting done,
and held hostage by those who would destroy the country. We cannot allow
anything to give momentu to the Parti Quebecois."

Yes, Paul Martin has carefully worked out his strategy, and WANTS to lose
this vote.

For one thing, he does not want to have to implement an NDP Budget. And he
wants the majority that eluded him the last time.

And he may get it too. The alliance between the Bloc and the Tories was bad optics, as we are now seeing.

I think at this point, Mr harper should NOT push for an election as he will only be falling into Martin's trap. Mr Chatters ought to stay home and recover his health.

What a difference a week makes.

Posted by: Smok Wawelski | 2005-05-17 12:06:03 PM


Think about it. If Belinda was ever going to go up the ranks in the party everyone would say that she never earned it because she slept her way up to the top. She lost all credibility in the party once she got with MacKay. By going to the Liberals this gave her a clean slate; a chance to start all over again and leave all the gossip behind. Its a start move on her behalf but I hate her even more for what she did to the Conservatives chances of defeating the Liberals. Thanks Belinda, hope you like the Liberanos!

Posted by: D.I.G | 2005-05-17 12:23:32 PM


So, Belinda is going to be Minister of Human Resources, is she? I guess she'll begin immediately by solving that HRDC mystery of the "misplaced" $2-billion dollars.

Just kidding. I'm sure she will too busy, being put to work right away as the new Defender of the Liberals in parliament, as Scott Brison must be close to collapse from the strain.

Posted by: Krista | 2005-05-17 12:23:36 PM


sally, point taken.

Now, if ld (amongst others) thinks this country is dysfunctional and he has had it, why is the only solution to physically relocate himself to another country?

There are possibilities other than ld and others packing up and moving elsewhere. Why not work towards repairing the dysfunction? Why not work towards Alberta/Western separation?

Short of tearing up the Constitution and Charter and starting anew (and that will never happen) I personally prefer not moving anywhere, but telling Canada "So long, it's been a slice" and becoming independent.

But, as you see no dysfunction, you'll disagree.

Posted by: Kathryn | 2005-05-17 12:32:17 PM



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