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Sunday, November 28, 2004

The problem with blogs is the idiots who read them

If you read the comments to my earlier post (Bush visit to Canada) you will come across a pair of "Scott's" rants about Ontario which include such gems as:

"Ontario people do this so they can send their kids to Upper Canada College and other elite, priviledged schools. "

"If you're white and native-born to Ontario, you are guaranteed a rich, easy life. Free education, free medical care, low taxes, high incomes. It's like you won the lottery."

"Ontario people use their fictious homeless problem to distract people from criticizing. There is no actual poverty in Ontario ..."

"Places like Upper Canada College and the University of Toronto are symbols of privilege, power and wealth - closed to non-whites and non-Ontarians. "

Wow, where does one start? A brief, dismissive rebuttal to each point, in order.

1) What is the population of Ontario and how many students go to UCC?

2) Depends on what your definition of rich is but there are certainly white, native-born Ontarians who are living miserable lives compared to their fellow Canadians. Also, rich depends on more than free education and healthcare and many Ontarians would debate your claim that we have low taxes -- according to the Fraser Institute, we have the third longest wait for Tax Freedom Day. And if many of the dwellings of poor whites in Parkdale is any indication, I'd rather not win the lottery.

3) "No actual poverty" is a broad statement. And while one could reasonably argue that the homelessness problem has been exaggerated, to claim it is fictious is just silly. Were the more than 30,000 people who spent a least one night in a Toronto homeless shelter, to say nothing about those who use shelters in other communities, tourists? Admittedly, there is a difference between chronic homelessness and being without shelter for a few nights, but I've seen the same men sleeping on the same downtown sidewalks for years -- unless you are counting the concrete in front of the TD building a home?

4) The University of Toronto "closed to non-whites and non-Ontarians"? I've heard people jokingly refer to UofT as the University of Tokyo. But beyond the anectodal, there are statistics to prove Scott is wrong. Unless they are lying, the University of Toronto has more than 4,400 foreign students, the majority of which are from Asia. Of course, one need not look at the university's statistics to know that UofT is not a whites only school when a stroll through the campus grounds would confirm the ethnic diversity of that post-secondary institution.

I hope that other Albertans are not as misinformed about Ontario, a province that has its problems, yes, as Scott. And we'll ignore the threat implied by his advice to Earl Williams that if he comes to Alberta to wear a "bullet proof vest -- you will need it."

Posted by Paul Tuns on November 28, 2004 in Weblogs | Permalink


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Looks like I struck a chord. Let's make it an symphony.

1. There are more schools like UCC in Ontario.

2. "Poverty" in Ontario is where someone owns a place in Muskoka OR a place in Florida, not both.

3. Homelessness is not a sign of poverty - it is a lifestyle choice. besides, why work when it has been proven one can make more money begging on Yonge St than working. It is a disgrace to those non-white immigrants who work 2 jobs to support their families.

4. True about Foreign students, but what about domestic students? Maybe not all, but overwhelmingly white and from Ontario. When I visited there years ago, it was a very dangerous place to visit, like most places in Toronto. The University of Chicago looked like it was in a nicer neighborhood.

5. A bullet proof vest is recommended for visitors to Ontario. If a local gets killed, it's their own damn fault. The cops there are useless.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-28 9:30:17 PM

Paul I suggest you ignore Scott's rant. There was a time on here when Scott was moderate and made some sense but lately he has sounded more like a lunatic. Last week he suggested Ontarians be nuked, so take it from there.

Posted by: MikeP | 2004-11-28 9:56:00 PM

"When I visited there years ago, it was a very dangerous place to visit, like most places in Toronto."

That statement alone suggest a deeper paranoia than mere therapy could plumb. What's your basis of comparison - Branson, MI?

Posted by: rick mcginnis | 2004-11-28 10:09:16 PM

I'm only treating Ontario people they way they treat everyone not of their class. If they don't like it, then to hell with them.

Albertans have their own country to manage. We don't need the dead weight of a corrupt, class-ridden, racist society down east violating our human rights.

Look at this Kyoto thing. Ontario has an exemption from its provisions. They knew it was a job-killer, so they used their power to get around it. It is Alberta who will pay most of it, and when it strikes full-force there won't be a job left.

Alberta should secede and join the United States. Better to be 1 of 51 than nothing at all in the eyes of the Toronto elites.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-28 10:14:30 PM

Could an Ontario person believe that an Albertan could be anything other than a stereotypical white-trash, truck driving, flat-earth believing, redneck?

If, by some miracle, you can, then believe that I have travelled and seen some amazing things. I've been to the inner city sections of major US cities. Chicago, Detroit, DC, Philly to name a few. Not one scared me as much as Toronto. Toronto people kill for pleasure, and know the "just-us" system will let them off with a slap on the wrist. What more can be said for a city that has a gun delivery service for criminals (it was a front-page story in your Sun a while back - but Tronna people ignored it because it didn't appear in the Globe or Star).

But the snobs in Toronto don't care about such things. They're too busy driving their Lincolns to their Muskoka cottages, sipping martinis, eating caviar, and enjoying their rich easy lives.

That has to stop.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-28 10:32:28 PM

See what I mean about wearing a bulletproof vest?


AN 11-YEAR-OLD girl and a man were clinging to life in hospital last night after being shot on a moving bus in Downsview. The girl was rushed to Sick Kids' hospital after she was shot in the head in front of her horrified mother on board the northbound 35C Jane St.-Steeles Ave. bus around 5:20 p.m.

In the early evening, two people are ruthlessly gunned down in supposedly "safe" Toronto. The girl was shot in the head right in front of her mother.

What a society. Ontarians: leave Alberta NOW! We don't need your gun-happy criminal ways here. This land is for people who want to build good decent lives for themselves, not for the likes of you. Just get out.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-29 4:25:08 AM


1. Your "bullet-proof vest" comment was an implication that Albertans resent Ontarians enough to kill them on sight. It was not a comment on street violence in Ontario.

2. Because of 1., your use of this tragedy to try to redeem yourself is disgraceful.

3. Were I to suggest that Taber or Weibo Ludwig tell us all we need to know about Alberta, I would be making a complete ass of myself, as you are doing every time you boot your computer.

Someone ban this jerk's IP. Death threats are beyond the pale.

Posted by: surly | 2004-11-29 4:46:33 AM

"Also: Toronto is east of Winnipeg. I recommend you head that way and never come back. Alberta is for the people who want to build it, not exploit it for profit. I also recommend bringing a bullet proof vest - you will need it."

No threat here. Just some friendly advice on what to expect in Toronto, which has been proven correct by the bus shooting. Ontario people kill for fun. It is for the wearer's own safety in that city. It's a sad commentary that it would even need to be suggested.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-29 5:32:12 AM

It would appear that your awkward sentence constructions led both Paul Tuns and me to take your "advice to people going to Toronto" as a threat to people going to Alberta. I therefore withdraw my accusation that you were threatening anyone.

But you're still a ridiculous troll.

Posted by: surly | 2004-11-29 7:08:20 AM

"Ontario people kill for fun. It is for the wearer's own safety in that city."

My God you sound like an ass. I can't believe I'm saying this, but you've managed to turn bigotry into an abstract art, Scott, talking about "Ontarians" as if they were a race.

You've just got to be some too-terribly clever left-whinger looking to stir shit up, because nobody could really be such a massive tool.

Posted by: rick mcginnis | 2004-11-29 7:46:15 AM

You can call me a troll. Just don't call me late for dinner or someone who tolerates Ontario's fascism.

The best part about that shooting is how everyone on the bus ran off. The killers will get away with it because no one was brave enough to stop them.

Ontario people are not a race. They're a disease that must be fought for survival.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-29 8:28:25 AM

wow, Scott's even crazier than I thought he was. I felt kinda bad about my rather hasty earlier post, but now I'm okay about it.
Scott, here's the deal. I lived in Saskatchewan for five years, Alberta for three. I lived in Toronto for five years in the early 90s and never got shot at once. Although I did a lot of bar hopping in those days, maybe I just don't remember :).
I met lots of great folks in all three places, and fortunately never met anybody like you. You'd be amazed how much people are alike - the differences are greatly exaggerated.
By the way, I'll head back for a visit any time I like, and I won't be wearing a vest.

Posted by: earl williams | 2004-11-29 11:45:26 AM

Point of fact, every large city west of Lake of the Woods is statistically more dangerous than Toronto if you're talking per-capita murder rate. But Scott, if thinking that Toronto is dangerous keeps you away, feel free to ignore this fact.

As for the University of Toronto, point of fact part 2 is that "white" people are (according to the university's own internal statistics) actually in the minority among students. This is in fact one of the more common complaints leveled at the U of T by people of non-standard political viewpoints. If Scott were talking about faculty, he'd still be wrong but less spectacularly so.

Posted by: Jim in Toronto | 2004-11-29 12:25:48 PM

I never thought I'd say this, but "Scott" makes Rubert McClelland look grounded and rational.

Posted by: Damian P. | 2004-11-29 2:13:32 PM

Three years ago this week, I last set foot in downtown Toronto. On the way out, I ran to the subway, where I encountered a man and his son haggling over the fare. I said to him "Get out of the way" (or words to that effect) and he recoiled in horror that someone would question him.

That shows how awful Ontario people are. They're selfish, greedy, idle and privileged, entirely concerned with their own status. No wonder people like Tom Wappell, Judy Sgro and Carolyn Parrish come from there. They don't even have to shovel their own snow.

Debating these issues is a waste of time. Therefore, farewell and stay clear of the stray gunfire.

Posted by: Scott | 2004-11-29 10:32:09 PM

I've finally realized - Scott is actually a fictional trial balloon, the work of some terribly talented writer checking out if his creation is actually credible in some forum other than a novel. Really, it was that last post that convinced me - what a vivid characterization, a bit on the verge of satire, perhaps, but indelible nonetheless. It was the last line - "farewell and stay clear of the stray gunfire." The tone was just so authorial - blustering yet oblivious. I don't think anyone's managed to do something like this since Babbitt, probably, maybe even Sterne or Thackeray. Whoever you are, "Scott", please let us know when the book's out - it sounds like an amazing read!

Posted by: rick mcginnis | 2004-11-29 11:07:52 PM

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