The Shotgun Blog
« UTSU marches on Queen's Park and then does nothing | Main | Ezra Quote of the Day »
Thursday, November 05, 2009
Newfoundland Lt. Governor wears sealskin coat
According to the Globe & Mail, Lt. Governor John Crosbie wore a sealskin coat in support of the seal hunt. I'm pretty sure this won't change anyone's mind, but as someone who enjoys a good "fuck you" I can appreciate the gesture.
There are two statements in this article that I would like to point out. The first is by the director of Canada's chapter of the Humane Society International:
There is no compassionate human being alive who can see what I've seen on the floes and support the commercial seal hunt.
The second statement is by a local:
“I don't really have that much against the wearing of a seal coat,” St. John's resident Wallace Taylor said. “The people up there [in remote areas] depend on it for their livelihood.”
Do you hear that "humane" society? People's jobs, that means their ability to feed their children and lead a decent life. So what is humane or compassionate about destroyingsomeone's livelihood? Or are you people just so arrogant that you don't care about your fellow human being?
Posted by Hugh MacIntyre on November 5, 2009 | Permalink
Comments
Hugh,
I have no problem with the seal hunt, but it is worth pointing out that your comments on the second quotation are looney tunes. The argument structure is this: "Some people rely on X for their livlihood, therfore criticising X is inhumane." In this instance "X" is "the seal hunt". But if "X" were something like "the slave trade", then the argument would be obviously ridiculous.
Quite simply, if X is morally wrong, then the fact that some people depend on it for their income does not somehow make it right. If X is morally acceptable on its own, then your argument is moot. So either way the fact that some people depend on X for their income is irrelevant to the question of whether or not we should approve of X, no matter what "X" is
Posted by: Fact Check | 2009-11-05 6:44:42 AM
Fact Check, your argument is fair enough as far as slavery or perhaps abortionists (if you think so a thing is wrong) but you mischaracterized my point.
My point is that ending the seal hunt would cause human suffering. Seals are not humans and humans are more morrally significant than seals.
Basically I would argue that it is more moral to kill every cat in the world than it is to kill a single human being. Or even to do that human being harm.
So my point in the post was that the people who are trying to shut down the seal hunt are immoral. Or at least are acting immorally. Especially since they are trying to employ force through the state rather than persuasion.
Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2009-11-05 7:58:28 AM
What are you on tour vegan? I would take the time to care what you think but I'm too busy thinking about bacon...hmmmm...dead pig
Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2009-11-05 7:59:57 AM
Wow Hugh, what twisted logic you have. You've got no problem with fishermen bludgeoning baby seals with wooden bats and slicing them open with box cutters before they're even dead, but you brand everyone who is trying to end the inhumane treatment of seals as "immoral."
To suggest that stopping the seal hunt will cause human suffering is ridiculous. Nobody relies on the seal slaughter to make a living. It's an off-season activity that buys extra ciggies. There are alternatives. Unfortunately, the fishermen don't have the courage to try something new.
Your assertion that it's wrong to "employ force through the state" is contradictory. The largest lobbying group in Canada is the fishing/sealing industry. They're blackmailing the politicians threatening to withold their votes if they do not have their own way (why else would the govt continue to support it when the majority of Canadians want it ended). Both sides are doing it. I guess by your own reasoning, the fishing industry lobbyists are immoral too....Oh no, that's right - for you guys it's DIFFERENT, cos it's all about "culture" and "heritage."
Posted by: Bridget Curran | 2009-11-05 9:25:15 AM
Hugh,
"My point is that ending the seal hunt would cause human suffering."
To call it "suffering" is probably a bit of an overstatement. The reality is that if people who are making their livelihoods from the seal hunt were to lose that and were unable to find any new job, they would collect welfare and have enough to live on. It's not a good situation, but it is not really "suffering".
"Basically I would argue that it is more moral to kill every cat in the world than it is to kill a single human being. Or even to do that human being harm."
1. It is important to differentiate the claims that can be made about why the seal hunt is wrong. One claim is that killing seals is wrong full stop. Another claim is that it is ok to kill seals so long as it is done without causing the seals any suffering (real suffering, like a slow and painful death). To represent the claim of those opposed to the seal hunt as an objection to killing full stop is to miss the argument of many.
2. That has to be too strong a claim, especially if by "harm" you include "lose a job and have to go on welfare". Torturing a billion cats is not just wrong, but it is so wrong that it is better that one person lose their job and be forced to go on welfare than that a billion cats be tortured. That has to be a no-brainer.
Posted by: Fact Check | 2009-11-05 9:43:03 AM
John Crosbie can afford a sealskin coat, but most Canadians can't. Those things are very expensive, and the thought of some nutcase throwing paint on me is enough to steer me toward goose down.
I sure hope these tofu eating parasites don't find out how inhumane the poultry industry really is. Without goosedown, I'll have to wear more wool. If the sheep lobby shuts that industry down, I'll have to wear some cheap synthetic, and we all know where polypropylene comes from.
Posted by: dp | 2009-11-05 9:49:00 AM
Gee, I see Canada is living up to its "caring" society, about this seal atrocity. "...fishermen bludgeoning baby seals with wooden bats and slicing them open with box cutters before they're even dead,..."
Here in "caring" Canada we carve up, cut to pieces, disembowel, decapitate, poison by saline solutions baby humans, and we call this atrocity "choice" on abortion.
Over 100,000 innocents yearly are slaughtered. But, hey "save the seals" and KILL the humans.
See the slaughter of the humans at:
http://www.AbortionNo.org
Posted by: Stephen J. Gray | 2009-11-05 10:00:42 AM
On the topic of the seal hunt ...
As long as we have a society which celebrates individual rights over collective rights, human beings have a right to wear sealskin coats and eat seal meat.
Those who choose to do so have never attempted to force the preference of their clothing on others.
Unfortunately, the fundamental respect and tolerance of other human beings seems to be missing from the proponents of the collective.
Scroll back to see where the name-calling starts.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 10:23:11 AM
Mengle experimented with wearing skin too, whats your point?
It's "Mengele," actually. If you're going to break Godwin's law, at least do it properly.
NOBODY relies on the hunt to sustain life, this fallacy is for insensitive assholes who need a good clubbing to the head, before they will realize the difference between right and wrong
I will say what is right and what is wrong, tofu brain, not you. You are an omnivore, not a herbivore. Not unless you have a four-chambered stomach and upchuck your dinner so you can rechew it several times before finally digesting it.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 10:30:19 AM
Wow Hugh, what twisted logic you have. You've got no problem with fishermen bludgeoning baby seals with wooden bats and slicing them open with box cutters before they're even dead, but you brand everyone who is trying to end the inhumane treatment of seals as "immoral."
I brand your mindless emotionalism and rampant lying immoral. No sealer in his right mind would try to skin an animal while it was still squirming; one slip of the knife and the pelt is ruined, and his bounty lost. And if you consider sealing immoral, how about nature? Sharks, orcas, and other predators don’t bonk baby seals on the head before biting off their cute little faces, of that I assure you.
To suggest that stopping the seal hunt will cause human suffering is ridiculous. Nobody relies on the seal slaughter to make a living. It's an off-season activity that buys extra ciggies. There are alternatives. Unfortunately, the fishermen don't have the courage to try something new.
What alternatives? And who are you to call courage into question when you turn green and get all weepy at the sight of blood? And how would you know what their financial situation is? Not that you would care; if stopping the hunt would require the execution of the sealers, you’d still do it. You do hate them that much.
Your assertion that it's wrong to "employ force through the state" is contradictory. The largest lobbying group in Canada is the fishing/sealing industry.
Could I see proof of this, please? I thought the public-sector unions were the largest lobbying group in Canada.
They're blackmailing the politicians threatening to withold their votes if they do not have their own way (why else would the govt continue to support it when the majority of Canadians want it ended).
Isn’t that what environmentalists do when the push for green agendas the government knows are daft? And environmentalists take it even further, actually breaking the law, trespassing, vandalizing, harassing, spiking trees, piracy on the high seas. Both sides are, in fact, not doing it; environmentalists are far more likely to be lawbreakers. But for you it’s DIFFERENT, because you have a cause.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 10:38:11 AM
Actually, dp, they'll just tell you to wear hemp. And if wearing it doesn't make you forget the cold, they'll go on, smoking it will. Hemp seems to be the greens' answer to just about everything nowadays.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 10:41:59 AM
The amount of tax dollars spend defending this industry outweighs 1000:1 any revenue this hunt brings in.
Every product has its life cycle and this one is over. Its done.
Yeah, this is going to hurt seal hunters. But there are hundreds of thousands of Canadians who have found their industry dying and have had to make do with change and hardship.
Obey economics and let the market decide. Governments, please stay out of the seal hunt!
Snowgirl
Posted by: snowgirl | 2009-11-05 10:58:49 AM
I love my seal skin gloves. I wear them often.
Posted by: Agha Ali Arkhan | 2009-11-05 11:04:39 AM
Ah, so vegan offers the final solution.
Kill those useless human beings who do not agree with us.
Love the planet, hate the human beings who inhabit it.
What an arrogant attitude, so typical of the collectivist tyrant. Wrapping themselves in self-righteous intolerance.
Eat your beets, you neanderthal.
Leave us alone, you control freak.
Like you we are humans who have the right to make our own decisions based on facts.
We will never succumb to your totalitarian ramblings because we will push back twice as hard to your death threats.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 11:11:20 AM
People Eat Tasty Animals.
Animals eat other tasty animals.
Seals eat fish. Will they ever switch to tofu once their champions win the argument?
Has a seal ever build a hospital or created a social program?
Has a voiceless seal ever hired a human being to articulate its feeling of oppression and victimhood?
If a lion is your friend, do you believe that he can sense your intentions if you step into this territory? Or does he just view you as a nice, light snack?
Does a seal have a job? Do you?
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 11:25:12 AM
Hugh,
Is the seal hunt being subsidized? I'm not exactly an expert on the matter ...
Posted by: Charles | 2009-11-05 11:27:46 AM
Thanks Steven, and fact check for being brave enough to think for yourself on this issue.
All Fact Check did was point out (correctly) that lost livelihoods are not excuses for moral crimes. Stephen drew a relevant comparison but was critical of the seal hunt critics.
Too bad others have no ability to feel or care for anything but themselves.
I don't profit from the seal hunt, but I still don't oppose it without stronger proof than I have been shown thus far.
Being stupid like Shane and ilk is a large part of the reason the world is in the mess it is in.
So that's what you tell yourself when the world won't listen to you--it's stupid, Shane's stupid, they're all stupid, I alone and a few of my anointed know better. Should I tell Jesus you're after His job? Oh, wait, He knows already. Never mind.
Just to be clear retards, and most of you are retards on this subject, people who are vegan are aware of what you are not willing to accept in your limited brain, please don't try and enlighten us with your flawed knowledge regarding what you know little about.
What is it we don't understand, O Wise One? Enlighten us. Or is your bottomless font of bile intended to conceal an empty braincase?
I never said people could not eat meat,but is it not disturbing to throw millions of un eaten slaughtered animals daily into the garbage?
This is an emotional entreaty, and irrelevant.
Nobody finds it offensive to have such little regard for the life other beings?
This is an emotional entreaty, and irrelevant.
If you eat flesh, why not eat humans, what is the difference? Flesh is flesh according to meat eaters, what stops you from eating humans?
The difference is that the flesh of herbivores generally tastes better than the flesh of omnivores and carnivores. Because they are lower in the food chain, pollutants are less concentrated in their systems, so they are also generally healthier. That said, several Asian cultures eat cats, dogs, and even snakes, and I don't begrudge them. Although I do concede that the bear gallbladders, the ground tiger bones, and the powdered rhino horns are bullshit.
Oh, and killing humans means you have one less pair of hands to help around the village, which is probably why people dropped cannibalism fairly early on. Today, we could eat executed prisoners and winos, but who would want to?
I say leave the cats, and put to death useless human beings that bastardize, and twist the word moral to suit whatever it is they want to do.
I say all brainless vegans should be hung up by the heels and flayed alive, their skin pulled off in long thin strips which they should then be forced to eat. Without seasoning. There, see how easy it is to wish hateful shit? Productive, isn't it? Give it up. You can't win at this. I can imagine tortures that would have you barfing blood out of every hole you own.
People like Hugh, and Shane are not the kind of people that build nations because they are angry lazy slobs with few ideas about how to advance. The world would fail miserably with either of these indoctrinated thinkers at the helm, this why they amounted to almost nothing other than narrow minded haters of everything decent and good.
People like Vegan are whimpering cowards who hide behind a cloak of anonymity and realize they are outmatched intellectually, and so attempt to carry the day through torrents of mindless emotionalism and character attacks. Societies disintegrate not when robust, active people are at the helm, but rather idiotic degenerate dreamers who think waving the bloody shirt and blowing snot into a hanky is a contribution to posterity more profound than all the philosophy of Socrates.
By the way, what did you amount to, besides a long-haired muff-diving crab-crawling asshole pinko fuckstick with the brains of a bat?
A life is a life and only religion is what clouds this argument by pretending it is the right of humans to eat animals, and the right of humans treat everything else horribly except other humans.
If a life is a life, why do lions eat zebras? Do you think that when wolves bring down a moose, they inject it with anesthetic, or brain it with an electronic hammer? No, they slash at its flanks until its guts hang loose and then hound it until it becomes so stiff from pain that it cannot walk, and then they finish the job in a red holocaust of slashing fangs, spraying blood, and dripping guts. Then they chew and tear the flesh from its flanks in big juicy chunks, and when that's gone, they gnaw the very bones.
And that, kiddies, is Nature. Who wants steak?
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 11:31:17 AM
vegan:
Your error was articulating your snuff fantasies on other human beings.
Should you carry this out in the normal thought-word-deed process, it will not be seals who sit in judgement of your actions ... it will be other human beings.
You have the God-given gift of free will, with which you can choose to eat whatever food suits you best.
When I eat a delicious hamburger or my morning bacon and eggs, I can tell you with an absolutely straight face that I feel no superiority over any other human being on this earth.
Is is the tofu that makes you smug and smarmy?
I don't know you, but I can guarantee you are not my superior and you never will be.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 11:31:43 AM
The amount of tax dollars spend defending this industry outweighs 1000:1 any revenue this hunt brings in.
Source, please. And I mean a REAL source, not some activist shill site.
Every product has its life cycle and this one is over. Its done.
Only in western Europe. They're quite popular in Asia still.
Yeah, this is going to hurt seal hunters. But there are hundreds of thousands of Canadians who have found their industry dying and have had to make do with change and hardship.
HAD to, owing to changing economic circumstances beyond anyone's control. This is something we don't have to stop doing; you just want us to stop doing it because it makes you sad.
Obey economics and let the market decide. Governments, please stay out of the seal hunt!
That's the first sensible thing you've said all day.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 11:35:39 AM
"Look it up for yourself and come to your own conclusion instead of having people do your thinking for you."
Hey jackass. I don't have time to look it up right now. I probably will eventually but I wanted to see if Hugh knew the answer because I was curious.
I would suggest you tone the rhetoric down a bit.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-11-05 11:41:19 AM
That is if you truly could think Hugh?
Why don’t you SHOW us how to think, Vegan, instead of just crapping others for supposedly not doing it? Because all you’ve done so far is emote like a tantrumming toddler.
If you could think Hugh,maybe you would visit a hog operation for a day, and witness what you keep hidden from your brain. You would have tears in your eyes within an hour, you just aren't man enough to admit it or stand behind what you believe.
If you really want to know what goes into your steak, Vegan, you can’t beat the experience of the crash of rifle fire, followed by the satisfaction of finding the kill brought down by your own hand, frothy blood burbling on its flanks. The knife slides into the guts, unzipping the belly, and a great pile of hot, steaming entrails tumbles through your hands like a bloody rope. You open the chest and see the fist-sized hole your bullet has made, the red slurry that once were lungs like a mass of burgundy porridge. Its dim, dead eyes stare pathetically while the skinning knife parts hide from flesh, followed by the satisfying crunch as bones part and the quarters, bearing great joints of sumptuous meat, come free. Then the backstraps—best meat there is—and finally the flesh above the ribs is peeled away. If you like organ meat you have the choice of kidneys, heart, and liver, or all three. Plus, of course, you cut around the neck and twist the head free; can’t forget the antlers now, can we?
Yeah, I hide a lot from myself, Yeah, I’m likely to cry at an abbotoir. You read me good. I been told.
"When you believe in things that you don't understand then you suffer" I don't expect you to understand what this means because you are thick in the head.
He doesn’t understand what it means because it makes no sense. You’re intentionally forcing suffering on yourself for something you don’t even understand, and calling it a strength. It just makes you a sentimental idiot.
Hugh your writing makes it appear as if you are unable to feel the pain of others, I guess you can't help it if your cunt of mother failed in her responsibilites to raise a well rounded human being not void of what is important. You have the power to fix yourself knowing how and where you went off the track. Enjoy your antibiotic bacon, it does a fat body like yours good.
Oh, so now we’re into the “yo momma” jokes, are we, you pathetic little twig boy? Why, you look like the best part of you ran down the crack of your momma’s ass and wound up as a brown stain on the mattress. But I digress. We’re still waiting for you to show us how to think. Go on, then, show us. We’re watching.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 11:45:54 AM
That is if you truly could think Hugh?
Why don’t you SHOW us how to think, Vegan, instead of just crapping others for supposedly not doing it? Because all you’ve done so far is emote like a tantrumming toddler.
If you could think Hugh,maybe you would visit a hog operation for a day, and witness what you keep hidden from your brain. You would have tears in your eyes within an hour, you just aren't man enough to admit it or stand behind what you believe.
If you really want to know what goes into your steak, Vegan, you can’t beat the experience of the crash of rifle fire, followed by the satisfaction of finding the kill brought down by your own hand, frothy blood burbling on its flanks. The knife slides into the guts, unzipping the belly, and a great pile of hot, steaming entrails tumbles through your hands like a bloody rope. You open the chest and see the fist-sized hole your bullet has made, the red slurry that once were lungs like a mass of burgundy porridge. Its dim, dead eyes stare pathetically while the skinning knife parts hide from flesh, followed by the satisfying crunch as bones part and the quarters, bearing great joints of sumptuous meat, come free. Then the backstraps—best meat there is—and finally the flesh above the ribs is peeled away. If you like organ meat you have the choice of kidneys, heart, and liver, or all three. Plus, of course, you cut around the neck and twist the head free; can’t forget the antlers now, can we?
Yeah, I hide a lot from myself, Yeah, I’m likely to cry at an abbotoir. You read me good. I been told.
"When you believe in things that you don't understand then you suffer" I don't expect you to understand what this means because you are thick in the head.
He doesn’t understand what it means because it makes no sense. You’re intentionally forcing suffering on yourself for something you don’t even understand, and calling it a strength. It just makes you a sentimental idiot.
Hugh your writing makes it appear as if you are unable to feel the pain of others, I guess you can't help it if your cunt of mother failed in her responsibilites to raise a well rounded human being not void of what is important. You have the power to fix yourself knowing how and where you went off the track. Enjoy your antibiotic bacon, it does a fat body like yours good.
Oh, so now we’re into the “yo momma” jokes, are we, you pathetic little twig boy? Why, you look like the best part of you ran down the crack of your momma’s ass and wound up as a brown stain on the mattress. But I digress. We’re still waiting for you to show us how to think. Go on, then, show us. We’re watching.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 11:46:14 AM
Truly, when emotion enters a room, logic departs. Often by the window.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 11:51:19 AM
Yeah, vegan.
TRUN your brain on.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 1:29:01 PM
Know which side of your brain your should TRUN on, vegan?
The tolerant side.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 1:33:49 PM
Ah, I see you've given us one more clue as to who you are.
Grade 13, huh?
Must be from under a dark rock somewhere in Ontario.
BTW, where did you get your free will from? And, why do you abuse your God-given free will on intolerance toward other human beings?
You wish cancer on another human being?
Truly, your empathies clearly define you as a sub-human.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 1:38:10 PM
There you have it, thre crux of his beliefs "GOD GIVEN GIFT" what a fucken retard, you shouldn't be allowed to have kids, or vote if you are that stupid after a minimum of 13 years of school.
Well, if he's dumb enough to be barred from having children, where does that leave someone who can't spell the word "the"?
What a waste of space anyone is who cannot think for themselves.
I agree. Are you packed yet?
You are of no use to a society interested in moving forward or gaining real knowledge because you fight knowledge like it will kill you if you learn it and understand it.
"Queegueg," said I, "let's go; this fellow has broken loose from somewhere; it seems to me he must be a little damaged in the head."
I won't argue points presented, because all of your perceptions on this topic are inaccurate because of purposeful ignorance.
Consider your surrender accepted, Vegan.
All meat eater deserve Cancer, because before taking that bite, you all had the chance to care about what you ingested.
Actually, most hunters have a great deal of respect for the game they hunt. They recognize their place in the natural order of things. Dickwads like you think they're just faceless fixtures in a gigantic theme park put there for your amusement. Maybe if vegans weren't so scrawny and undernourished-looking, more people would be attracted to the lifestyle of eating curds of whey. Just be sure there aren't any spiders about.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 1:40:51 PM
vegan:
The burden of proof rests on the one who makes the accusation.
Therefore, prove to the audience here that my brain is lacking in many respects.
Nice try, child.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 1:40:59 PM
SYF, you're assuming he has more than one side of brain (or for that matter a brain). At the moment he is only just passing the Turing Test.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 1:44:00 PM
P.S. And SYF, if kindergarten is included, then K-12 is 13 years. If he were from Ontario, K-13 would be 14 years of public school--assuming he finished them all. To judge from the level of intellect displayed thus far, I think he may have dropped out once the number of grades exceeded the number of fingers he had.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 1:46:20 PM
Shane:
This troll is particularly easy to defeat.
He has, so far, fantasized about death to those who do not share his beliefs ... twice.
He has name-called and made false accusations, demonstrating a lack of maturity.
My guess is that he's a frightened child with an inferiority complex who tries to puff himself up by dragging others down.
The game grows tiring.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 1:48:39 PM
"And I would suggest you trun your brain on sometimes instead of asking others about how you should feel"
You really are an idiot. Do you have reading comprehension issues? I don't give two shits (no offence) what Hugh thinks of the matter. I was just looking for a quick response as to whether the industry is subsidized or not. I will research this when I have a moment.
Now go back to whatever swamp you emerged from.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-11-05 1:50:39 PM
HEY TROLL:
LOOK, I KNOW WHERE MY CAPS LOCK KEY IS, TOO. LOOK HOW SMART THAT MAKES ME.
Can you show me where I have been intolerant of your choice to be a vegan? I stated right off the bat that's OK with me.
Do I stand falsely accused of being intolerant because I have notice you have issued one death threat and that you have wished somebody who does not choose the same diet as you contract cancer?
In my books, that's pretty sick.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-05 1:54:34 PM
You want me to be tolerant when you have no tolerance, or ability to truly understand an issue.
Yes. Because what you choose to be should not be affected by what others choose to be. You are not shackled to them by the scrotum.
Isn't just like religious people to want other to follow what they believe blindly?
Like you follow your aching, weeping heart blindly? Religions at least have wise men. You have only yourself, which is...disturbing.
You want me to be tolerant about an idustry that is hidden from the public because of how abjectly cruel it is?
The fishery takes place on ice floes in choppy waters. The public isn't exactly lining up to watch.
The world would be far more tolerant place without you in it, you aren't aware of this because you think it your right to destroy what ever you feel like destroying for no real valid reason.
And yet he has not wished death upon you. You, on the other hand...
You are so blind with self centeredness you are not able to think objectively, or fairly on any topic, nevermind this very important one.
I will say what is important, not you. And you know what a very reliable indicator of self-centredness is? Making the debate about the debaters instead of the topic.
Why don't you be true to your beliefs and watch youtube videos of animals being slaughtered while the family eats tonight.
Why would I need to watch a video? I've DONE it.
Someone steadfast in his or her beliefs would not hide slaughtering like we do in society.
You're an idiot. We do it indoors to keep the meat clean and the bugs off.
YOU WON'T BECAUSE YOU ARE A GUTLESS HYPOCRITE UNWILLING TO LOOK PAST THE END OF HIS NOSE, SO AS TO REALIZE THE MISERY AND ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE YOU ARE PERSONALLY CAUSING. ONLY YOU CAN STOP THE SLAUGHTER BY CHOOSING TO EAT MORE WISELY.
I love vegetarians...everything I eat is a vegetarian.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 1:57:29 PM
Nope ... I'm bewildered at your idiocy.
I guess I'll have to add you to the good old "ignore list".
Posted by: Charles | 2009-11-05 2:09:14 PM
Do we really need seal skin clothing? It seems its a rich mans pleasure anyway. I don't think I could afford a seal skin coat, how about you? But we do need meat. Meat has made us what we are today. With out the proteins meat provides us, our brains would not be developed as they are today. So I read in a science journal somewhere a few years ago. Unfortunately, in order to feed the vast amount of people who eat meat, it has become industrialized, and dehumanized in some cases. There could definitely be ways to change how we do some of these things for the better. I would hope these guys out there gutting baby seals aren't getting a thrill from the activity, because its like shooting fish in a barrel. I wouldn't call it hunting, thats for sure.
Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2009-11-05 5:56:47 PM
Actually Vegan, I'm not a big meat eater. I love a good salad. But I do occasionally eat a burger or bacon/ham with breakfast. I think with all things in life, moderation is the key. Hell, too much water will kill you.
Posted by: Steve Bottrell | 2009-11-05 6:52:16 PM
Shane I have you got an idea that came from your brain first?
I'm sorry; was this supposed to make sense???
Shane I cannot find one time in millions of words written here by you, where you appear brilliant, so I guess you are mocking me!
Like I said. Once you get past the number of fingers you have, everything becomes a matter of "millions." What superlative math skills you have.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 7:18:36 PM
Oh, OK then, person who believes in GOD, I guess you know
No diversions, no smoke screens, no shell games. You have confidently and insistently pronounced upon the stupidity of your opponents. Either prove it with something beyond vague emotional potshots, or prove your own superiority, also without vague emotional potshots.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 7:20:37 PM
Shane what has your perspective and perception helped you to accomplish in life so far.
Pretty much everything I've set a hand to and stuck with.
Would you call yourself a good person?
Yes.
Would you call yourself a successful person?
Yes.
Are you a nice guy, who can be relied on?
Yes.
Are you in anyway tolerant of others and their beliefs? (we know the answer to this one)
Of legitimate beliefs, yes. Not of self-serving nonsense.
Do you think the measly amount of taxes you pay actually benefits our society?
Actually, most of the taxes in this country are paid by the rich. Those who accuse the rich of not paying their fair share are living in a fantasy land.
Are you so stupid that you don't realize people like me subsidize non producing slugs like you and S-Y-F? Our country would be really broke if it relied on you.
But also unlike you, we do NOT subsidize organized crime. And whoever told you that being an entrepreneur made you the shit? Marc Emery was an entrepreneur and look at him now.
The only ability you have is to write and spell correctly. Your arguments are foolish and dated, just like your opinions, and beliefs
I guess we can add another pseudonym to your already impressive list, Oog. If you really are this ultra-special alpha male, why do you fear to give your true name? Are you afraid that people will seek you out and slit your throat, as you have suggested ought to happen to those YOU disagree with? We're not all bred from the same slime pond, Oog.
Cheers.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-05 7:33:42 PM
Some if not most of you need to get jobs. Either you are unemployed or you are cheating your employers of their time.
And if you are independently wealthy and dont need to work, I can think of a million better things to do then write endless blithering posts all day and that goes for all sides of the argument.
Posted by: snowgirl | 2009-11-05 8:54:32 PM
Get a job Lou.
Posted by: snowgirl | 2009-11-05 9:02:01 PM
I don’t think the “animals kill so it is okay for us to” is a very strong argument. We are human beings who are able to grasp moral concepts. We have in fact given up many barbaric instincts in our pursuit of civilization.
Which brings me to the real issue; human beings are different than other animals. Vegan repeatedly asserted that killing a human is the same as killing other species of animals. In fact it sounds like he/she values primitive life over human life. The reality is that doing harm to a human being is a far worse moral act because of a human’s level of awareness.
To go way back to Fact Check, I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that forcing someone to lose their job is doing harm to them. How will these people feed themselves or even just live in the same life style? Yes they can get welfare but that just means they are taking from others and not earning for themselves.
To answer Charles’ question, I don’t know if it is subsidized or not. I do know that it was banned a few years ago; I don’t know why you would bother to ban something that wasn’t financially sustainable. If it is subsidized then it shouldn’t be.
I don’t think most people are unaware of where their food comes from. I grew up in farm country so at least I’m very cognitive of the process. I have even gone as far as to pick out which turkey would be killed and eaten by my family. So I don’t see how the agricultural industry is hiding anything from anyone.
I find Vegan’s hostility bizarre. I live with my vegetarian girl friend and we have never had a fight on the issue of meat. She respects my decision to eat meat and I respect her decision to not eat meat. It isn’t hard. You give vegetarians a bad name Vegan.
PS.
My mother is not a cunt thank you very much
Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre | 2009-11-06 4:57:32 AM
rhetoric: "Language that is elaborate, pretentious, insincere, or intellectually vacuous"
Not a compliment. That being said, will return to "ignore mode" ;)
Posted by: Charles | 2009-11-06 8:16:11 AM
Hugh,
From what I can tell after doing a small bit of digging last night is that, indeed, there are no direct subsidies to the industry.
You can, however, make a relatively weak case that there are indirect subsidies. Some animal rights activists make the case that the services of the cost guard represents a subsidy. Furthermore, since the sealers operate on public property, they seem to be allocated a quota. It is very difficult to determine whether the quota is too high or too low since it is an arbitrary one set by bureaucrats.
Posted by: Charles | 2009-11-06 8:51:29 AM
Meat. Fire. Good.
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-06 9:13:58 AM
Cut and paste moment of the day:
The Gaia hypothesis is an ecological hypothesis proposing that the biosphere and the physical components of the Earth (atmosphere, cryosphere, hydrosphere and lithosphere) are closely integrated to form a complex interacting system that maintains the climatic and biogeochemical conditions on Earth in a preferred homeostasis. Originally proposed by James Lovelock as the earth feedback hypothesis,[1] it was named the Gaia Hypothesis after the Greek supreme goddess of Earth.[2] The hypothesis is frequently described as viewing the Earth as a single organism. Lovelock and other supporters of the idea now call it Gaia theory, regarding it as a scientific theory and not mere hypothesis, since they believe it has passed predictive tests.[3]
Posted by: set you free | 2009-11-06 9:43:13 AM
SYF are you saying the hypothesis is that, we were intended to be food for the animals?
It depends on how you look at it. Man is usually considered an apex predator, nor normally preyed upon as adults in the wild. However, even apex predators can be taken by less predators if they are injured, sick, or old, and animals of any size can be brought down by disease, starvation, or parasites. And a lesser predator will attack even a healthy human if they are hungry enough or too old or sick to bring down fleeter prey. (Lions and tigers that turn maneater are usually physically compromised or deformed, not healthy specimens in their prime.)
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 2009-11-06 9:58:51 AM
"Meat. Fire. Good."
Posted by: set you free
This is the argument which really holds force. "There is more wisdom in your body than in your philosophy." And my appendix craves meat. Rare.
As for the evolutionary explanations, the implication that meat-eating is responsible for the spread of flu epidemic, the concern about the morality of cruel farm practices, all of this is well and good for people like Shane who write well and think clearly.
For others, these are merely rationalizations for their prejudices.
Talk talk talk away folks. When it comes to the subject of food, I'm going with my gut.
Posted by: Timothy | 2009-11-06 10:49:39 AM
"I live with my vegetarian girl friend and we have never had a fight on the issue of meat. She respects my decision to eat meat and I respect her decision to not eat meat. It isn’t hard. You give vegetarians a bad name Vegan."
Posted by: Hugh MacIntyre
Hey Hugh,
Sometimes, I forget myself and compliment the hams on my vegetarian girlfriend. Not a good idea. However, I have lived with and been good friends with vegans. I have no truck with their compassion nor the delicious and creative food they make.
Posted by: Timothy | 2009-11-06 10:56:47 AM
Post a comment