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Monday, December 01, 2008

New NDP-Liberal governing coalition may be a win for separatists, and not just in Quebec; Western separatism surfaces again

The success of the NDP-Liberal governing coalition will depend on the cooperation of the Bloc. This has some federalists nervous, and it has some Western Canadians rethinking separatism.

In a Western Standard interview with Doug Christie, the Western Canada Concept separatist leader had this to say about the power struggle in Ottawa:

"This demonstrates Ottawa is a comic opera orchestrated by self-interested Eastern politicians and a waste of time and money for Western Canadians. If Western Canadians cannot see now the futility of remaining in Canada, stay tuned, things will only get worse. The truth, which we have tried to communicate about Western independence since 1974, is rapidly becoming the prime focus of Western Canadian awareness. This is causing a flood of support emails to me from people all over the West who used to be Conservative and many who were not. People who are interested in doing something rather than just complaining should get in touch and help us organize."

The Harper Conservatives embody the faint hope of decentralist-minded Westerners looking for a national government that is both conservative and also respectful of the separation of powers that give the provinces authority over things like natural resources, health care and education.

If the Harper government is overthrown by a coalition of Eastern socialists hostile to Western interests, and supported by the Bloc, the rise of separatism in the West is likely inevitable.

In 2005, the Western Standard commissioned a poll showing that 35.6% of Westerners agreed with the statement "Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country," indicating a strong sense of Western alienation under Paul Martin's Liberal government.

Posted by Matthew Johnston on December 1, 2008 in Canadian Conservative Politics | Permalink

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Comments

Why do you use the term "western interests" when you mean "rural Alberta interests"? Why the assumption that BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba are represented by a group of crank rural hicks who don't have the support of anything even remotely close to the majority of patriotic Albertans?

Posted by: Coyne Crissis | 2008-12-01 6:34:50 PM


...are represented by a group of crank rural hicks who don't have the support of anything even remotely close to the majority of patriotic Albertans?

Posted by: Coyne Crissis | 1-Dec-08 6:34:50 PM

I'd be interested in your definition of "patriotic". If it means do whatever the government tells you to do...its wrong.
If it means adherence on the principles on which our country was founded...then you are definately at odds with our present form of government, as they are a pit of vipers.

As a long time "urban" Albertan...I'm all for seperation from the corrupt regime "ruling" over us at this point in history.
And in my chats with people at my downtown job every day....apparently so are a lot of other people. So much for the "crank rural hicks" theory.
Maybe the real patriots are sick and tired of the circus in Ottawa too.

Posted by: JC | 2008-12-01 6:43:47 PM


Take me with you... I can't believe the NDP and Liberals would stoop to such a level.

I will NEVER, EVER, vote Liberal in my life... Period.

A furious voter from Ontario

Posted by: Donny Mac | 2008-12-01 6:54:23 PM


A furious voter from Ontario

Posted by: Donny Mac | 1-Dec-08 6:54:23 PM

Come west young man...and bring that fury with you...

Posted by: JC | 2008-12-01 7:03:59 PM


Actually this coalition would be a threat to all areas of rural Saskatchewan, BC , and Manitoba. It may be a threat also to Newfoundland, the Liberals would have to keep Dion which means the green shift, they would have to give in toe the NDP on the CWB and on shutting down the tar sands, they would have to give into the bloc on a reforendum, and support federalism by give large amounts of money to Quebec on top of money for Quebec and Ontario.

This would hurt the oil companies and affect white collar jobs in Calgary, the housing boom in Saskatoon and Regina, it would hurt the whole west as bad as NEP strengthen Quebec sepretism might and a possible return to NEP on top of that

Posted by: Brett Knoss | 2008-12-01 7:05:14 PM


It may be a threat also to Newfoundland..........
Posted by: Brett Knoss | 1-Dec-08 7:05:14 PM

The Newfies rejected the Conservatives in the last election when they listed to Danny Boy and voted in 6 Liberals and 1 NDP. I have absolutely no sympathy for them. You reap what you sow.

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-12-01 7:20:44 PM


JC writes: "I'd be interested in your definition of "patriotic". If it means do whatever the government tells you to do...its wrong.
If it means adherence on the principles on which our country was founded...then you are definately at odds with our present form of government, as they are a pit of vipers."

Patriotic means not threatening to separate just because whoever is in power doesn't do exactly what you want.

Posted by: Coyne Crisis | 2008-12-01 8:52:10 PM


Patriotic means not threatening to separate just because whoever is in power doesn't do exactly what you want.

Posted by: Coyne Crisis | 1-Dec-08 8:52:10 PM


Fair enough, but we're way beyond that.
We're into a meltdown here and none of these clowns are thinking of anything but themselves. This system has become a laughing stock and we're being robbed blind. What we're into now is tyranny and usurpation.
And like many people, I'm sick of it.
F**k Ottawa (with everyone that knows how)

Posted by: JC | 2008-12-01 9:07:03 PM


The separatists will win bigtime-both the Quebec and western .

The west will not accept this attempt to usurp power, especially as it concentrates power once again in the east, but this time without the benefit of an election.

What is sad is that Canada was well positioned to come out on top of this global recession. Our banks and economy are relatively strong and well positioned.

Once again our power mad political elites will grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

Dion has said that he is serving the people by this intervention, but the hybidized Dion-Layton (?Diayton) will spend our chidren's futures to the tune of billions of dollars and drive a stake through the heart of a strong recovery.

Posted by: JB | 2008-12-01 9:14:52 PM


Coyne -- people are loyal to their countries because their countries embody certain ideas and ideals they presumably value. If their country no longer embodies these ideas and ideals, loyalty becomes an absurd and dangerous form of nationalism.

Americans, who are deeply patriotic, built into their constitution the right to alter or abolish the state as an expression of patriotism.

Western separatist are patriots.

Posted by: Matthew Johnston | 2008-12-01 9:27:12 PM


"Americans, who are deeply patriotic, built into their constitution the right to alter or abolish the state as an expression of patriotism."

Yes, but ironically enough they built a system of government that has endured for over two centuries. What can I say: the Founding Fathers were geniuses.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-12-01 9:40:09 PM


Due to the overwhelming demand, we are reinstituting the Petition for a Referendum for Independence in each Western province. You may recall that we delivered 10,000 signatures on this petition to Ralph Klein, who ignored it. The time has come to deliver 100,000 to the Premiers of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. If you want a copy of this, get in touch. You too can Free the West!

Posted by: Doug Christie | 2008-12-01 9:52:37 PM


"Americans, who are deeply patriotic, built into their constitution the right to alter or abolish the state as an expression of patriotism."

Tell that to the Confederate States of America. Their attempt to "alter" the state didn't go too well as I recall.

Posted by: Terry | 2008-12-01 10:46:53 PM


"Americans, who are deeply patriotic, built into their constitution the right to alter or abolish the state as an expression of patriotism."

Tell that to the Confederate States of America. Their attempt to "alter" the state didn't go too well as I recall.

Posted by: Terry | 1-Dec-08 10:46:53 PM

Yes, but they had the legal right, in addition to the natural right, to do what they did. Unfortunately for all our rights, they predicated their defense of states' rights on a defense of racial subjugation, though many assert that tariffs were equally crucial to the eventual secession.

Secession is a right of a free people, despite the assertions of international legal scholars like Dion. However, you Canadians happen to live in one of the only federations on the planet that even nominally recognizes this right – thus rendering you a confederation. Perhaps deference should be made to that recognition, and the provinces should make every effort to show the world that confederations are viable. In one of the many paradoxes in politics, it is most proper to secede when it is forbidden, and in any case secession is a 'nuclear option.' Like revolution, it represents the patriotic action of free people in the face of political breakdown and tyranny.

I would offer that the case for secession is much stronger here among the American States. Our federal usurper has systematically robbed us of our rights as citizens of our States and as individuals. It now commits torture in our name, and sometimes against our people. It is relentlessly shrinking the sphere in which we can live private lives. It is even deploying electronic strip-search machines in our airports.

Ottawa is guilty of similar crimes, and of collusion with Washington, but it seems that your prospects for a recovery of liberty are greater now than ours.

Posted by: Mike Vine | 2008-12-01 11:44:20 PM


By the removal of government financing for political parties the Conservatives took the first step in a process that may well have succeeded in removing the Bloc, a party with representation in but one province, from the Federal government, thereby ensuring an increased possibility of:

‘A’ getting rid of a party whose stated aim is the break up of Canada.

‘B’ improving the chances of electing majority governments to run the
country in the future.

Of course the Dion and Layton duo are so greedy for power that it would be impossible for either to see anything other a chance of grabbing power to satisfy their need for personal glory, even at the expense of the good of the country. It disgusts me personally that even one nickel of my taxes goes to finance the Bloc, or the NDP, when I hear of their seedy backroom agreements to overthrow the sitting government. Apparently there are few depths to which they not prepared to sink

The three opposition party’s pretended concern over banning strikes by public service unions, who frequently hold the taxpaying public to ransom, or their crocodile tears shed because the government is not prepared the throw money indiscriminately, without plan or regard to what the other industrial country’s are preparing to do, are pitiful excuses for a course of action that is really about nothing other than an opportunity for the seizure of power.

While I have, in the past, voted for the liberal party, after this week’s threat to usurp the will of Canadian voters by ousting the legally elected government and replacing it with a coalition of the left, it will be a very cold day in hell before I ever vote for the liberals again. In fact, do we in the West really need to be a part of Canada? After all Canada needs the West more than the West needs Canada.

Posted by: Colin | 2008-12-02 12:53:00 AM


It seems that people lack a certain knowledge of the parliamentary system here.

a) a parliament is elected by the people-

b) it is parliament that DECIDES who governs, not the electorat (who already voted an MP for that purpose)

c) in a minority gov't, (in this case one with 37% of the popular vote) they have no choice but to look across the floor for support- if choose not to, they no longer can be considered to be legitemate- 4 out of 10 in the room in not democratic

d) we do not, have never and likely will never choose the prime minister, that is the job of the MP's (whom we choo

Posted by: dan liv | 2008-12-02 3:50:35 AM


AL QUAIDA IS IN QUEBEC.
Dam look to what I see. ''Come west young man...and bring that fury with you...''
Yeah young men, come beat your wife on the western redneck association.

Oh you will not like it.
Im from Quebec, saw this post on our newspaper and came to leave a comment.
So yes. I'm a frenchy. Not a Bloc fan. Expect when I read things like that and the National Post.

I will ask only one question.
Youre blaming Eastern province for that, but with Harper we saw I was not true.
Why just don't promote Quebec Separatism movement outside Canada if we ruined you country all the time?
Why Harper, just like you, always want a United Canada if you hate us and our mentality?
Because you think you can change us? So here is your plan? Or because that you know that if Federal governement havent stole all that money from Quebec since the beginning you would not have that economic essor?
Why Harper want us so much if we are pain in the ass?
Now if you can read, inform yourself and take a look at the demography of the population of canada and try to find where are the people.
Look where are the 2 of 3 biggest city in Canada.
Then try to have an mathematic and reasonable answer to your question why Eastern Rule.
You want our money? perfect. Now take care of us.

AND I CANT STEP BESIDES DAN LIV comment in silence.

The democraty your talking about is vote for someone that do wathever he wants after beeing elected.
Canadian are 60% for Kyoto. 55% against the war.
Conservative party in minority and by acting like dictator havent take this piece of democraty in mind.
TO FINISH. Harper get in this situation because he tried to kill Bloc, Npd and Liberal party by cutting money off.
This way hell become a prince.
Is that democraty DAN LIV?
And now they pay for it.
They bash on opposition without never listen to them and thats what they got. The opposition.
Now we have 3 different party that represent 3 different views of his society that wok together.
THAT IS DEMOCRATY. finally.

Posted by: ALEX | 2008-12-02 1:28:10 PM


Dam look to what I see. ''Come west young man...and bring that fury with you...''
Yeah young men, come beat your wife on the western redneck association.
Posted by: ALEX | 2-Dec-08 1:28:10 PM

What a completely knee jerk, ignorant reaction.
The fury of which I spoke is that of a passion for freedom. Probably too deep a thought for you.
(Maybe you should just stick your face back into a bowl of pooteen and leave the thinking to others.)
Some of us are not not on the recieving end of the great Canadian welfare check and don't appreciate being slagged off by the great welfare province, who's ass we carry through life.
I appreciate opinions from La Belle Province when they are objective in nature, but this comment comes from simple ignorance.
Next time you want to call Alberta a province of wife beaters....back it up with some stats.
As far as I'm concerned we have a higher level of civility than the majority of the country.
(And yes I've traveled Canada extensively)

Posted by: JC | 2008-12-02 1:58:12 PM


Didn't an Ontario man just stab a woman to death not long ago? For shame, I thought Ontario was the land of milk and honey where nothing went wrong.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-12-02 2:09:54 PM


Then try to have an mathematic and reasonable answer to your question why Eastern Rule.
You want our money? perfect. Now take care of us

Are you insane or inept?
Quebec is demanding more equalization payments every day. Where do you think the money comes from?
Quebec is using more tax dollars now than it can contribute.

Posted by: Darry | 2008-12-02 2:24:15 PM


Didn't an Ontario man just stab a woman to death not long ago? For shame, I thought Ontario was the land of milk and honey where nothing went wrong.
Posted by: Zebulon Punk| 2-Dec-08 2:09:54 PM

What makes this story even worse is that Alabama has the 5th highest rate of poverty and 3rd highest rate of obesity in the US.

(CNN) -- The FBI on Monday arrested the mayor of Birmingham, Alabama, on federal charges including conspiracy, bribery, fraud, money laundering and filing false income tax returns.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/01/birmingham.mayor/?iref=mpstoryview

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-12-02 2:26:30 PM


"........are represented by a group of crank rural hicks who don't have the support of anything even remotely close to the majority of patriotic Albertans?...."
posted by Coyne Crissis
I just love how ignorantly inept some people are when they post here. How does this person know what the western provinces want? BC'ers have been talking about separation for years and you'd know that if you'd lived there. How about what is in the best interests of Western Canada or do you really care? The best interests of Western Canadians do not come from a Liberal, NDP or Bloc regime. If it takes the very real threat of Western Canadian separation to get it through the left winged parties' heads that we are not going to take socialist agendas and complete disregard for the democratic process anymore, than so be it. It's not up to Western Canada to save Ontario. The provincial government there made their own mess and they can clean it up without western help. It's called "responsible government" then again look who's been in power as premier there and there's no doubt why the province is in trouble to begin with.

Posted by: Sasha | 2008-12-02 3:24:24 PM


The Conservatives took an excellant idea, stopping the funding of political parties by government, and tried to ram it through for partisan advantage in the worst sort of hack political games playing. This is the basis of what is happening, of that there is no doubt.

The Conservatives get what they deserve; apparently back to the political wilderness.

There is no-one to blame but their own incompetant leadership; all the nonsense from the Conservative spinmasters that tries to paint it otherwise will be ignored by all but the most hopelessly biased.

Posted by: Valentine M Smith | 2008-12-02 7:49:24 PM


Hello All,

With the BC election coming this spring this would be an excellent time to begin organizing a Cascadian seperatist party for the election. It is time. The party must be wholy inclusive as the west is neither english nor french with a truly multicultural heritage - as long as this is reflected strongly, Vancouver and the Island will likely get on board.

Any thoughts on getting this thing off the ground?

Posted by: JP | 2008-12-03 9:51:25 AM


I have enough of all this crap, the time has never be better, make the petition for the separation more and easier acessible.
Get the actions rolling!!!!

Posted by: Udo Grady | 2008-12-04 3:10:43 PM


The Liberals ,NDP, and the Block Party have pushed us around long enough.I have been a Conservative,but now I believe it is time Western Canadians stand up for our democratic right for fair and just representation.Saskatchewan is my home province and we are finally becoming a have province.If we stay with the present Federal system they will bleed us back to a have not province.I have printed up copies of the Petition for a Referendum for Independence and will distribute them in my area.

Posted by: Bob | 2008-12-05 12:21:28 AM


I am also a Sask. conservative. Or I should clarify that and say WAS a conservative until this fiasco. Have been reading the posts and wonder how can the Block be a national party or have any say federally when they only exist in Quebec????Our system is definitely in need or an overhaul. Being from the West, we always thought that a P.M. from the West would work for us, but guess what??? when you get to Ottawa you forget where you came from.

Posted by: Billie | 2008-12-05 12:49:27 PM


" I'd be interested in your definition of "patriotic"[...]"
-JC

*

Here's mine:

Prison de Montréal
14 février 1839 à 11 heures du soir
Le public et mes amis en particulier attendent peut-être une déclaration sincère de mes sentiments : à l'heure fatale qui doit nous séparer de la terre, les opinions sont toujours regardées et reçues avec plus d'impartialité. L'homme chrétien se dépouille en ce moment du voile qui a obscurci beaucoup de ses actions, pour se laisser voir en plein jour; l'intérêt et les passions expirent avec ses dépouilles mortelles. Pour ma part, à la veille de rendre mon esprit à son créateur, je désire faire connaître ce que je ressens et ce que je pense. [...]
Je meurs sans remords, je ne désirais que le bien de mon pays dans l'insurrection et l'indépendance, mes vues et mes actions étaient sincères et n'ont été entachées d'aucun des crimes qui déshonorent l'humanité, et qui ne sont que trop communs dans l'effervescence des passions déchaînées. Depuis 17 à 18 ans, j'ai pris une part active dans presque toutes les mesures populaires et toujours avec conviction et sincérité. Mes efforts ont été pour l'indépendance de mes compatriotes, nous avons été malheureux jusqu'à ce jour. La mort a déjà décimé plusieurs de mes collaborateurs. Beaucoup gémissent dans les fers, un plus grand nombre sur la terre d'exil avec leurs propriétés détruites, leurs familles abandonnées sans ressources aux rigueurs d'un hiver canadien. Malgré tant d'infortunes, mon cœur entretient encore du courage et des espérances pour l'avenir : mes amis et mes enfants verront de meilleurs jours, ils seront libres, un pressentiment certain, ma conscience tranquille me l'assurent. Voilà ce qui me remplit de joie, quand tout est désolation et douleur autour de moi. Les plaies de mon pays se cicatriseront après les malheurs de l'anarchie d'une révolution sanglante. Le paisible Canadien verra le bonheur et la liberté sur le Saint-Laurent, tout concourt à ce but, les exécutions même, le sang et les larmes versés sur l'autel de la liberté arrosent aujourd'hui les racines de l'arbre qui fera flotter le drapeau marqué des deux étoiles des Canadas. Je laisse des enfants qui n'ont pour héritage que le souvenir de mes malheurs. Pauvres orphelins, c'est vous que je plains, c'est vous que la main ensanglantée et arbitraire de la loi martiale frappe par ma mort. [...]

Le crime fait la honte et non pas l'échafaud. Des hommes d'un mérite supérieur au mien m'ont battu la triste carrière qui me reste à parcourir de la prison obscure au gibet. Pauvres enfants, vous n'aurez plus qu'une mère tendre et désolée pour maintien : si ma mort et mes sacrifices vous réduisent à l'indigence, demandez quelquefois en mon nom; je ne fus jamais insensible aux malheurs de l'infortune. Quant à vous, mes compatriotes, peuple, mon exécution et celle de mes compagnons d'échafaud vous seront utiles. Puissent-elles vous démontrer ce que vous devez attendre du gouvernement anglais... Je n'ai plus que quelques heures à vivre, j'ai voulu partager ce temps précieux entre mes devoirs religieux et ceux dus à mes compatriotes : pour eux je meurs sur le gibet et de la mort infâme du meurtrier; pour eux je me sépare de mes jeunes enfants et de mon épouse sans autre appui, et pour eux je meurs en m'écriant : Vive la liberté! Vive l'indépendance! (Marie-Thomas Chevalier de Lorimier, Lettres, 1839)

Posted by: Marc | 2008-12-05 1:30:12 PM


The issue is that FEDERALISM has become a behemoth that overrides any local and regional autonomy. This is the same problem that is occurring now in the USA. The States are getting pretty antsy over encroachment of State jurisdiction. Harper knows this is at the root of Western Alienation as he mentioned it numerous times. Remember Chretien and his stomping around telling the West that we need some tough love?
That is dictatorship.
Not accepting dictatorships to run your life is admirable and far from unpatriotic.
We serve ourselves first, our neighbours next.

Imagine a down the street neighbour walking into your kitchen, make themselves a sandwich, raid the fridge, boss around your spouse and family, run you down, demand your wallet - and a portion of your next pay in perpetuity while they make no effort to get to work...ThEN threatens to kill your job off for some global warming conspiracy, and you are not allowed to say or struggle against this or the police will be there charging YOU...
Once you get that picture in your head, you might start to "get it".

Posted by: Angry! | 2008-12-05 1:48:05 PM


Marc;
You're communicating on an ENGLISH site with ENGLISH speaking people.
Your posting in any other language is useless and demonstrates the typical French attitude- that you are more important than anyone else, and WE should bend to accomodate you rather than the other way around...

Posted by: Angry! | 2008-12-05 1:51:08 PM


Vive le Canada Libre!

The second-strongest support for the Conservative party, according to the latest polls, comes from Ontario.

At last, Ontario will join Western Canada in building a nation for ALL Canadians.

Ontario voted in 51 Conservative members just seven weeks ago.

There are 49 more seats in Ontario.

Once the majority is secured after the Liberal Party shoots itself in the head by voting non-confidence in the budget (how will they ever pay for an election campaign?) then an accurate redistibution of seats based on representation by population will take place.

Then, Canada will once again be a great country in which each region can demonstrate its independence by paying its own bills.

Posted by: set you free | 2008-12-05 1:56:49 PM


Vive la liberté! Vive l'indépendance
Posted by: Marc | 5-Dec-08 1:30:12 PM

Good thought. Didn't get any of the rest of it though.

Posted by: JC | 2008-12-05 1:59:42 PM


Then, Canada will once again be a great country in which each region can demonstrate its independence by paying its own bills.

Posted by: set you free | 5-Dec-08 1:56:49 PM


Dare to dream. That's a very cool thought.

Posted by: JC | 2008-12-05 2:39:08 PM


Having lived in Ontario and Quebec before I settled in Alberta, and God help me, having been a Liberal supporter in those days I have the following observations:
1: The "rural hicks and rednecks" meme is, while not universal, widely held in Ontario and Quebec.
2: Ex-Easterners newly arrived to Alberta will make snide references to "pick-up trucks and gun racks" and will inevitably vote Liberal or NDP while sneering at the sheep who, supposedly, blindly vote conservative because their hick hayseed father did.
3: Ex-Easterners, after at least 5 years of living and working in Alberta, will often discard their erroneous and pre-conceived notions and realize that Albertans are a diverse, friendly and cultured people who only wish to have a fair say in their governance.
4: If the newcomers work for public unions or are teachers comment #3 will not apply.

Posted by: BoomNoZoom | 2008-12-05 2:51:17 PM


"Your posting in any other language is useless and demonstrates the typical French attitude- that you are more important than anyone else, and WE should bend to accomodate you rather than the other way around..."

A bit like for Angry people, as we can all see.

Posted by: Marc | 2008-12-05 8:54:22 PM


Alex from Quebec; comment on dec 2nd, The west has been socially engineered for thirty years by Primeministers from "The Nation of Quebec". They all have Language police in thier home towns. Our society has been manipulated. It may not be your fault. Every Frenchman Is not a separatist. But, it'gone on too long and things are going to change. Attitudes are changing right now. The west can have it's own "Bloc". We'll make it happen happen. It will be a thrill and a rush just trying. It already feels like more fun than what we've been putting up with.

Posted by: Nowsthetime | 2008-12-09 4:31:55 AM



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