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Tuesday, September 09, 2008

Possible NDP candidate Ryan Cleary: Let's consider separation from Canada, and the NDP are losers

Nominations for the riding of St. John's South-Mount Pearl, Newfoundland close today. And Ryan Cleary, who has expressed sympathy for Newfoundland separatism, is one of the front-runners for the nomination.

I spoke with Rick Boland, the president of the riding association, via email to try and gauge Cleary's chances, and to see what the riding president thinks of Cleary's views on Newfoundland and Confederation.

"As Well as Ryan Cleary," Boland told me, "Fred Winsor will contest the nomination." Winsor has a PhD in history with an emphasis on fisheries (which he put to use when working with Peter Stoffer on the development of fisheries policy). "There are at least two others who are considering running. A meeting on Wednesday evening will decide the outcome."

As for the separatist bit, Boland had this to say: "I'm aware of Ryan's separatist stance, not uncommon among intellectuals here -- a reflection of the province's poor position in the Canadian confederation." Boland thinks the sentiment is similar to western as well as Quebec separatists. But, in the end, Boland believes "it is a gauntlet thrown out to Central Canada to rethink the inequities of the present confederation."

And, just to be clear, Boland adds: "He is certainly not running on a 'separatist ticket'."

Separatism doesn't worry the NDP too much--at least, the riding president is unconcerned--but what about a long and storied history of thinking the NDP, uhm, sucks?

Here's an excerpt from the Cheers and Jeers section of today's Telegram (that's "The People's Paper," in case you were asleep at the wheel), recounting some of Cleary's more stinging zingers:

"Cheers: to bygones being bygones. Now, politics makes strange bedfellows, but it's more than fascinating that former Independent editor Ryan Cleary spent time last week considering running for the New Democrats. After all, in his columns, he's never had much good to say about the party. "The New Democrats are losers - there, I said it - a mainstream party that wouldn't win an election if Jackie Layton was given a 100-seat head start.... I'd have more respect for the NDP if they actually set out to win an election - instead of settling for spoiler."

Furthermore, "the NDP (are) content to cater to the small pocket of aging granolas and artsy fartsies in Town" and "are desperate in the dream department."

It's a regular theme: "The New Democrats are no more a provincial party than Water Street in downtown St. John's is a provincial highway. Lorraine Michael is no more a potential premier than John Hickey is a potential finance minister."

"Despite the backing of most of the major unions, the New Democrats - outside the aging granolas in east end St. John's and the union crowd in Labrador City - are a lame political duck.... Peg Norman is one of the few names bandied about as potential leadership material. If she had any sense she'd join the Liberals - at least then, if successful, she'd have 11 other losers to hang out with."

Posted by P.M. Jaworski on September 9, 2008 in Canadian Politics | Permalink

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But, in the end, Boland believes "it is a gauntlet thrown out to Central Canada to rethink the inequities of the present confederation."
Posted by P.M. Jaworski on September 9, 2008

Which means they want to keep all the oil revenues and expect Canada to keep shoveling money into the place.

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-09-09 11:36:05 AM


Who cares who runs on the Rock with a rock head at the helm? Danny Boy Williams has already created himself as a pompous little dictator of his Fiefdom of Newfoundland, telling people how to vote. He can solve his own problems and STFU about the rest of Canada. That is until he wants a favor, which could be sooner than he thinks.
Harper will manage to do quite well without his support. His vindictiveness spurred by greed will hurt only him and possibly his province and no one in the rest of Canada cares squat.

Posted by: Liz J | 2008-09-09 12:02:14 PM


Hmmm, with comments such as the previous two redneck hicks, is it really any wonder why there is a psuedo-separation movement in NL? Firstly, Canada does not pour money into NL. The payments we receive from equalization do not even come close to the revenues that are pumped into the Federal coffers from our resources. Consider this, revenue from Churchill Falls, Hibernia, and human resources from NL'ers living on the mainland add up to more than we receive in equalization. Not to mention that the equalization monies come from income tax PAID BY EVERY CANADIAN INCLUDING NEWFOUNDLANDERS AND LABRADORIANS. Now, I know this information flys in the faces of the racist bile that your oh-so-educated pappies and grandpappies spewed at you as you grew up,but it is indeed true. Check StatsCan for the distribution of equalization (Quebec receives about 80% of the total amount paid out), then compare that to the revenues the Fed's received from Churchill Falls and Hibernia. Then consider that there are about 250,000 to 300,000 Newfoundlanders working on the mainland benefiting mainland companies, spending that disposable income on the mainland, and paying taxes in mainland provinces and municipalities. Now consider that the province of NL paid to educate that portion of your workforce. Now, I realize that I'm asking you to do math, but don't be scared, because it's the kind of math that a lobotomized monkey could do. Oh, and to Liz J...you hit the nail right on the head. No one in the rest of Canada cares squat, so why should we care about you?

Posted by: Rob E | 2008-09-10 6:52:07 AM


Hmmm, with comments such as the previous two redneck hicks,
Posted by: Rob E | 10-Sep-08 6:52:07 AM

Rob. Great to see you wanking for Newfoundland. I've got just a few points I'd like you to clarify from your post.

How much revenue does the federal government get from Churchill Falls?

Doesn't Newfoundland keep 100% of it oil revenues?

Isn't Newfoundland getting $1 billion in equalization payments in the 2008 -2009 budget?

Isn't Newfoundland guaranteed equalization payments until 2012 based upon the Atlantic Accord?

Isn't Newfoundland's 2008 - 2009 $1,781 per capita equalization payment the 3rd greatest, only behind PEI and NB?

Doesn't Quebec actually receive 60% of all equalization payments and not 80%?

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-09-10 8:44:45 AM


Stig:

Here's your answers:

In 2002, Churchill Falls revenues topped 2.2 billion, of which $635 million went to NL. So we received not even 25% of the total revenue. If you need more current figures, then go research it.

As far as oil revenues go, you are partly right. The new deals signed do allow us to keep our revenues as it should be. After all, I didn't see any revenues clawed back from Ontario's manufacturing industry by Ottawa during Ontario's heyday. However, these are new deals and have no merit in our conversation since we are discussing Newfoundland's historical place in the country, not the present. As far as historical information goes, then you are incorrect. For example, Hibernia. The deal signed for Hibernia allowed for Ottawa to receive 53% and NL received 47%. However, of that 47%, Ottawa actually claws back 70%, bringing the true percentage to 84% for Ottawa and 16% for NL.

As for equalization, the government of NL has only $18 million in this year's budget for equalization and we are projecting no equalization payments for the 2009-2010 budget. As I've said in my previous post, do the math. If we have a population of approximately 500,000 people, then an $18 million equalization payment translates to about $36 per person in the province. I highly doubt that makes us the 3rd greatest per capita equalization payment.

As for Quebec receiving 60% and not 80%, well, the rest of your numbers are incorrect, so I'm not putting much stock in your accuracy.

Ummm, by the way, I'm pulling all these numbers from both StatsCan and the Government of NL websites. Where are your numbers coming from? LSD?

Posted by: Rob E | 2008-09-10 11:13:44 AM


In 2002, Churchill Falls revenues topped 2.2 billion, of which $635 million went to NL. So we received not even 25% of the total revenue. If you need more current figures, then go research it.
Posted by: Rob E | 10-Sep-08 11:13:44 AM

I couldn't care less what total revenue is. You claim that the feds are getting some. How much?

As for equalization, the government of NL has only $18 million in this year's budget for equalization and we are projecting no equalization payments for the 2009-2010 budget.
Posted by: Rob E | 10-Sep-08 11:13:44 AM

Well Rob. I don't really care what Newfoundland has in its budget, what really matters is what the feds have in their budget. The total equalization that Newfoundland will receive in 2008-2009 is $158 million plus $742 million in Accord offsets for a total of $899 million.

As for Quebec receiving 60% and not 80%, well, the rest of your numbers are incorrect, so I'm not putting much stock in your accuracy.
Posted by: Rob E | 10-Sep-08 11:13:44 AM

Total equalization with offsets is 14.5 billion of which Quebec receives $8 billion. Which is just under 60%

Ummm, by the way, I'm pulling all these numbers from both StatsCan and the Government of NL websites. Where are your numbers coming from? LSD?
Posted by: Rob E | 10-Sep-08 11:13:44 AM

The Canadian Department of Finance.

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-09-10 11:57:10 AM


So, Stig, you don't care about my opinions, eh? Federal stats are the only ones that matter, eh? My spidey sense is telling me that you're becoming increasingly agitated. Is that because some "dumb newfie" is cleaning your clock in a battle of wits? Do you realize how childlike you sound with your comments? You asked your questions and I provided you with answers. You're well within your rights not to accept my numbers if you have corresponding numbers to argue. However, you're using only one source, which to me, when I have more than one source, is not believable. Nothing I say will change your mind because your racism is so deeply engrained in you, much like that of the rest of Canada when it comes to my province. BTW, just a word of advice. If you're going to debate an issue, then prepare for it and look at both sides. Don't think you can use your uneducated opinions and not lose to someone who is more prepared than you with actual facts. The fact is that NL'ers will no longer tolerate being looked down upon when we contribute just as much to this country as anyone else.

Posted by: Rob E. | 2008-09-10 12:49:40 PM


I'm bored with you now. I'm going to look for signs of intelligent life elsewhere.

Posted by: Rob E | 2008-09-10 1:01:47 PM


Is that because some "dumb newfie" is cleaning your clock in a battle of wits?
Posted by: Rob E. | 10-Sep-08 12:49:40 PM

Bwahahahahahahahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNkdTkL-aAk&NR=1

Posted by: The Stig | 2008-09-10 1:46:04 PM


Rob E - Thanks for trying to put up the good fight but some Canadians just don't want to see an equal Newfoundland. The thought of it is revulting to them, especially as Ontario and Quebec's economies falter and they have to depend on Newfoundland for both cheap energy AND equalization. This is a racist Nation. Just be glad we have a home to return to, you only have to look to the Native population out west to see what they do to those they see as lesser people when they don't have any power.

You want to know why so may Newfoundlanders have seperatist leanings - look at the posts here - who would want to be part of a nation which has no respect for you, especially when it looks like you might finally be able to stand up after having your economy destroyed by mainlanders at DFO? This is an abusive relationship, and if it doesn't get better, and fast, then I'd suggest the same thing as I would to any abused spouse - Just Leave!

Posted by: NL Socialist | 2008-09-29 12:47:21 PM


PS - it would be nice to see a mainlander stand up every now and then and decry the abuse Newfoundlanders regularly take - but maybe that is asking too much...

Posted by: NL Socialist | 2008-09-29 12:51:23 PM


Each Atlantic province had the option of choosing equalization based on the previous formula or the Atlantic Accord.

That means Danny Williams had the choice of taking either option, whichever he deemed to be more favourable to the people of Newfoundland.

Why does Mr. Williams conveniently neglect that fact?

Which option did he choose? The previous one? Or the Atlantic Accord?

Socialist? Rob? Either one of you care to answer?

Posted by: set you free | 2008-09-29 1:00:55 PM



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