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Saturday, July 12, 2008

Ron Paul R3VOLution March

Revolmarch

When Ron Paul pulled out of the primaries, declaring an end to a surprisingly effective campaign, he promised that it wouldn't be the end of the "revolution." That the revolution would march on. To fulfill this promise, Paul started the Campaign for Liberty, and announced two events--a September 2nd get-together, called the Rally for the Republic, at the University of Minnesota during the GOP convention, and a Revolution March planned for today.

I have no idea how many people are at the rally right now. I'm listening to the speeches from a raw feed on Revolution Broadcasting, and it sounds like there is a large crowd there. According to Revolution March, just over 15,000 people pledged to march.

1:56: Naomi Wolf just spoke. She discussed the 10 steps a country needs to take in order to move towards fascism, and to take over the lives of individuals. I slipped over to Wikipedia and found them (you can ignore the hyperlinks, they popped in when I cut-and-pasted this):

  1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy.
  2. Create secret prisons where torture takes place.
  3. Develop a thug caste or paramilitary force not answerable to citizens.
  4. Set up an internal surveillance system.
  5. Harass citizens' groups.
  6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release.
  7. Target key individuals.
  8. Control the press.
  9. Treat all political dissents as traitors.
  10. Suspend the rule of law.

Wolf is going through them one-by-one, and claiming that it's true of the U.S. today. The crowd is pretty exuberant, and she's getting a surprisingly warm reception. Surprising, in part, because Naomi is no libertarian or pale-conservative. But she tells the hosts of Revolution Broadcasting that she is excited about the march, and she's excited about forging a coalition to take back the government.

2:00: A Christian police officer is insisting that Americans need to return to religion if they want freedom. He says the Founders knew that a religious country will preserve liberty, and that a secular country will not.

2:02: Some 9/11 truth nonsense.

2:03: This guy is a nut. He's talking about the anti-Christ, and about dots being put on mail boxes. Red dot means the aliens are coming. Blue dot means cheese doodles. Pink dot means elephant graveyard. Actually, no, that's not what he said. Red dot means you're a resistor (or something), pink dot means the government can work with you, and blue dot... whatever. Who cares?

2:07: Found some pictures of the march here. According to Independent Political Report, early estimates put the number of marchers at 5,000.

2:36: Chant goes up: "Live Free or Die"

3:20: I won't get to live blog this whole thing. (Maybe you could take it from here, Kalim?) A friend is back from Tennessee, and I have to go see him. Ron Paul will speak a little later on, and I'm listening to a former CIA man tell me about the importance of the Constitution, and the freedom that it guarantees. Agreed.

Posted by P.M. Jaworski on July 12, 2008 in International Politics | Permalink

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Comments

Yay I'm posting here first for no reason!

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-12 11:26:32 AM


I can't believe I'm saying this: thank goodness Obama has a better chance than Ron Paul.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-12 12:18:03 PM


Naomi Wolf's larger point, that the groundwork has been layed for the US to slip into a sort of dictatorial totalitarianism may be correct, but as Michael Young's review in the Aug/Sept edition of Reason magazine (sorry, not yet online), these 10 steps are hardly characteristic of fascism specifically.
"Non-fascist authroritarian states such as China, Cuba, Vietnam are known to 'establish secret prisons,''target key individuals,' and 'subvert the rule of law,' for example. Nor does Wolf seriously consider tha fact that many of her steps–carefully selected to hew close to the controversies of the Bush years–would also apply to previous American presidents, including the liberal titans Franklin Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Abraham Lincoln."

By ignoring the evils of communists, leftists, and liberal heroes, is Wolf saying "it's OK when we do it"?

Posted by: Kalim Kassam | 2008-07-12 1:08:29 PM


"Zebulon Pike" is secret code for severely retarded.

Posted by: shrugged | 2008-07-12 3:09:18 PM


Zebulon Pike is secretly playing a "Freemason'....

"Jahbulon" is the 3 headed God of freemasonry...


Albert "Pike" (December 29, 1809–April 2, 1891) was one of the fathers of freemasonry in the USA...

He wrote the book...
"Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry"...

He has played a role in predicting Three World Wars, and was a key player in Lincolns assasination.

Lincoln was assasinated because he got rid of money lenders and international bankers.....He adopted the Green Back(peoples money) which were handled by the government, not like the privatly owned "Federal Reserve".

I hope Obama and McCain have fun at Bohemian Grove this weekend...

Posted by: Slam Bam | 2008-07-12 4:23:06 PM


Fascism in America, 9/11 Denial, and now the Freemasons? Geez, Obama's going to be Lincoln compared to these people.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-12 4:33:15 PM


Zebulon Pike is Obama cruising the blogs.

Posted by: HennyPenny | 2008-07-12 5:47:14 PM


The status quo Antichrist system of government, we see in washington DC, Bush, Hagee, and now McCain wants to bomb Iran to keep the debt increasing to fatten the interest payment to the bankers for printing our own money, $1.2Billion a day and on the rise. Who needs the war to continue? Follow the money. Certainly not Ron Paul

Posted by: Ron Moss | 2008-07-12 7:38:54 PM


Naomi Wolf, eh? Strange choice for a Ron Paul rally.

I first became aware of her views back in the early 90s when, through her highly influential book The Beauty Myth, she convinced my left wing girlfriend of the time that there was an international panty conspiracy.

I'm serious! There were chapters devoted to the claim that men forced women to wear uncomfortable panties and banks colluded to deny capital to women who would build comfortable panty factories!

Fifteen years later, with the advent and near universal adoption of the thong, that claim of course looks even more absurd. The supposedly uncomfortable panties of 15 years ago would be considered granny panties today.

Naomi is a radical feminist, not very bright, and has a history of getting it wrong. Feminism cannot exist without the coercive power of the state. A feminist is a statist and any man who tells you otherwise is playing dirty pool to get laid :-)

Women do well under fascism, or most any ism for that matter; they dig a man in uniform. When Solzhenitsyn talks about 25% of the population of St. Petersburg getting sent to the gulags, he's talking about men. It's not the place for a woman, especially a radical feminist like Wolf, to tell men anything about fascism; last time I checked the incarceration rate of really hot chicks was still about 0%.

She does have her uses, such as a recent essay on the Sex Crimes of the Bush Administration's War On Brown People:

"We now know that the torture of prisoners was the result of a policy set in the White House by the former secretary of defence, Donald Rumsfeld; the Vice-President, Dick Cheney; and Rice - who chaired the torture meetings. The Pentagon has also acknowledged that it had authorised sexualised abuse of detainees as part of interrogation practices to be performed by females. And documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union have Rumsfeld, in his own words, "checking in" on the sexualised humiliation of prisoners.

The sexualisation of torture from the top turned Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay into an organised sex-crime ring in which the trafficked sex slaves were US-held prisoners. Looking at the classic sadism-and-masochism nature of some of this torture, it is hard not to speculate that someone setting policy was aroused by all of this.
...
Just as sex criminals -- and the leaders who directed the use of rape and sexual abuse as a military strategy -- were tried and sentenced after the wars in Bosnia and Sierra Leone, so Americans must hold accountable those who committed, or authorized, sex crimes in US-operated prisons."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/call-sex-crimes-what-they-are/2008/06/25/1214073338060.html

Posted by: Mocker | 2008-07-12 8:07:18 PM


In response to the third comment:

Fascism means "rule by decree." e.g. no representation from the people.

Communist dictatorships like Cuba, Red China and the former Soviet Union were the most fascist of all. They never had democracy. Even Hitler came to power through democratic process. Later he was given executive powers to rule by decree for 4 years after their 9-11, the burning of the German parliment building. That's how the US is falling into fascism -- as a result of the Patriot Act and its extensions.

Posted by: Ted Wansley | 2008-07-12 8:40:55 PM


Yes, as I've pointed out here before, the first-posters are usually the hired assassins.

Nevertheless, I'm finding some interesting confluences here. It's long confounded me how so many big-gun, hard-ass warmonger types could bow to the Nanny State, letting idiotic simpletons at the airport frisk them and rifle through their laundry bags. I have wondered about this disconnect between the "macho" image and the subservient girlie-man who surrenders to the State ("protect us, we are in danger"). "Ron Paul's a wimp because he doesn't want to blow up them A-Rabs," as voiced from the same people who submit like robots and cowering fools before the State ("yes sir, yes sir, three bags full"). But now I've got it--there is a panty obsession going on, as shown above. I think there is a "submission-Dominatrix fetish" that is rendering the warmongers hungry for anyone who gives an order.

Posted by: Scott Harmon | 2008-07-12 9:57:26 PM


Preposterous! The US is nowhere near fascism. Bush hasn't neutralized or imprisoned his opponents - in fact his critics have been empowered. Minorities are not being rounded up and imprisoned. (Illegal immigrants don't count because their deportation is long standing US law.) Labor unions remain free to operate. Elections continue to be conducted, along with the peaceful exchange of power. Moreover, the Patriot Act remains in effect because Congress keeps approving its renewal. Hitler was able to renew his powers under the Enabling Act by controlling the legislature. There are few comparisons.

All of these things occurred in the Nazi state, but none of them, except in the minds of Bush's most radical critics, have occurred in the US since 2001. Get over it.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-12 10:09:56 PM


Fascism is not really a singular political philosophy. Hitler's brand was different than that of Mussolini. There have been brands of fascism in Britain, and a number of other countries, too.

The problem with political "branding" is the same as that of musical "branding." Namely, it is the inability to classify grand themes that exhibit minor differences. Thus, there is an ongoing erosion between the "classified" and the grand themes of the classifiers. We used to have "Rock" music; now, we have "country rock," "hard rock," alternative rock," and on and on. We used to have Republicans; now, we have Republicrats, Blue-Dog Democrats, "Left- and Right-leaning" Republicans, and so forth.
The problem is, ultimately, what is the grand theme and what are the minor differences?

The key elements of fascism, as historically observed, are: a nexus between the business/corporate elements and the State apparatus; a component of ultra-nationalism (the State is right no matter what), and a fixation on religion and/or an emphasis on some supreme ideology (as endorsed by the State) to promote an ideological goal.

Thus, fascistic governments can vary widely in their approaches. It does no good to pick apart whether Hitler imprisoned Jews versus whether Americans imprisoned Arabs (i.e., terrorists at GITMO). We are talking about techniques here, not philosophy. Techniques are not the problem: philosophy is the problem. And, if one thinks about philosophy, he/she would note that the Bush Administration is very closely aligned with FASCISM. The core elements of FASCISM are, again: the nexus between government and corporations, ultra-nationalism ("might makes right" or "jingoism"), and an ideological fervor designed to make the commoners fight against a mythical windmill (think about Don Quixote).

So, to say the U.S. is nowhere near fascism, is totally illogical (based on the above tenets of fascism). Quite the opposite, the U.S. is whole-heartedly invested in its own brand of fascism, not entirely like that of Hitler or Mussolini, but actually quite topographically similar. One only need look at the government-friendly news media, the connections between the government and telecom industries, and the jingoistic saber-rattling going on to understand that the U.S. is in a full-tilt toward FASCISM.

Posted by: Scott Harmon | 2008-07-12 11:16:01 PM


See, as I said in the other thread, this is the core problem of the libertarian movement. How do you expect to win anyone over when you invite a well-known leftist like Naomi Wolf to speak at a major event? Or when you let some obscure Truther nut sound off?

I share many ideals in common with libertarians. But, let me tell you, I'd hit delete on any invitation the moment I saw that woman's name - and the last time I saw 9-11 Truther's in the street in my hometown, I pulled a U-Turn, drove a block back, and then drove by them very slowly while screaming obscenities at them.

Posted by: Adam Yoshida | 2008-07-12 11:19:38 PM


There seems to be a lot of confusion here concerning what fascism is. Naomi Wolf preaches the same liberal rubbish we have been fed for so many years that fascism does not exist on the Left. Actually it has always been a product of the Left. Furthermore Nazi Germany was also on the Left.

Does it exist in North America? It most certainly does, or at least a good many elements of it in both Canada and the U.S. It always includes a nanny-state with government intervention in everything from business to people's private affairs. It is statism with collective rights replacing individual rights. The statists make use of any crisis, real or not, to increase state power and size. There is not enough time nor space to spell it all out, but for clarification I would recommend Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg.

Posted by: Alain | 2008-07-13 12:19:07 AM


Yes Adam, I see what you mean. Scott is clearly suffering from BDS - Bush Derangement Syndrome. I'd say it's nearly a DailyKos level too!

Comparing Guantanamo Bay to the Holocaust is extremely offensive because it shows complete contempt for the facts.

He wants to talk about 'philosophy' but fails to provide adequate evidence for it.

"a nexus between the business/corporate elements and the State apparatus" = how does the Bush admin differ from others? What of the role of other organizations like NGOs, Unions, etc?

"a component of ultra-nationalism (the State is right no matter what)" = HA! Ridiculous! Maybe in 9/11 Truther world, but not in 21st Century America.

"a fixation on religion and/or an emphasis on some supreme ideology (as endorsed by the State) to promote an ideological goal" - Hmm, if memory serves the first Muslim to be elected to Congress took place during the Bush Administration. So much for that idea.

"government-friendly news media" = good lord what planet is living on? Few media outlets are willing to obey the Bush admin; there's too much to be made by bashing him!

"the connections between the government and telecom industries" = what does this have to do with anything. Another conspiracy theory.

"the jingoistic saber-rattling" = hardly without precedent both in the US and in other countries.

What about things like a long tradition of democracy and rule of law? That alone could keep fascism, however defined, at bay.

Moreover, previous fascist movements came to power from outside, that is as an independent movement assisted by the established powers (i.e. Hindenburg appointing Hitler as chancellor, King Victor Emmanuel appointing Mussolini.) This simply isn't the case with Bush, who came to power through regular channels (won the mainstream party nomination, then the election, not once but twice.)

And then there's the role of the military. In Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, the new regimes depended on the military to back them. In the case of Italy, it was the military which ultimately deposed Mussolini. This hasn't happened in the US, not by a long shot.

Bush may have unpopular policies, but not only is the US far from fascism, it isn't even close to a dictatorship.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-13 12:22:41 AM


Zebulon Pike and other Freemason/Illuminati freaks fear the gallows, that seems to hold for 90% of their reactions. Get over it already, EVERYONE has to face the music eventually.

Posted by: Steve | 2008-07-13 4:37:23 AM


test

Posted by: Thatguy | 2008-07-13 8:39:19 AM


That reminds me, I have to cash in the bags of gold that Bush personally gave me to support his administration. I wonder if he knows that I would have done it for free. (Ooops, I guess he does now! ;)

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-13 9:15:43 AM


I sit back watching. What i see is a divided people. I see hundreds of individual groups , each attempting to persuede the public of their views. I see confusion , anger, sadness and hope. What i do not see is a centralized leadership. I see no common goal being set. We the people are under attack by the Government. A government that has been solidifying and strengthening their powerbase. Forget how they got there focus on how do we as a people reduce the size and power of government. " A government is like fire, a handy servant , but a dangerous master." --George Washington.

If we the people do not want a Nafta Superhighway running through Texas, then why dont those who actually see this happening gather together and start tearing up the highway. Record it and take over a tv station and air it. If we the people don't like taxes and are tired of paying them..then why don't we unite and quit paying them. We scream of freedom and prosperity but yet out of a population of 300 million we only have a few thousand moving to New Hampshire to support the Free State Project. If we are tired of paying high gas prices then shouldnt we gather together all of our neighbors, friends and family and go in a convoy to the nearest gas station fill up our vehicles and not pay. If we do not like our congressmen and representatives and president then why dont we the people band together and march on our capital and physically remove these people from office. We all know the news is full of mis-information . Why don't we American Patriots March on our TV stations and shut them down. We are facing an opponent that has effectivly been getting more powerful over the many years through technology , laws and regulations that are designed to keep the people seperated. Racism is a fantastic tool used to keep the people divided. My personal thought is that we are all Americans black, white, yellow whatever. We are all Americans and there should be no racism. We are supposed to be a United People who will stand for each other in good times and in bad. Class seperation by wealth is another fantastic tool used to cause further seperation and end result is an us vs them mentality for all the wrong reasons.

I personally believe that it is time for all \ individual constitutional minded groups to create a new congress. Each group should send forth 1 member of their organization as a representative. Then all of those representatives should elect a President. In anotherwords we recreate what our forefathers did before us. We make the Constitution of the United States our Constitution. We re-adopt the bill of rights pre 9/11 and we under this new Governemnt if you will begin to offer the people a true choice. Right now we are 10 fingers while our current government is a fist. United we stand . Divided we fall. The time for action is either now or is very close to comming a reality. The question is will we be prepared for action on our terms or on our governments terms. If all this turns violent and Civil war breaks out , know this... There will be no place to run too. You will either live free or die. Gather together people, find a common banner recreate the work that our forefathers achieved. They left a beautiful blueprint on how to organzie a government for the people by the people. I firmly believe that our current government is so cancerous at this point that we have no choice but to cut it out. Some things are no longer fixable and must be tossed to the trash heap.

These are my thoughts. Ill leave you with one more quote that i find appropritate.

"The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered...deeply,...finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people."--George Washington.

We have a job to do people. Its time to unite. We can all agree on at least 1 thing. Death is inevitable. How do you want to be remembered?

--Annonymously yours, A Son of Liberty.

Posted by: Thatguy | 2008-07-13 9:25:30 AM


This is very strange event (and a very strange set of comments).

With partners like Naomi Wolf, I don't see how many libertarian leaning people would like to associate with this event.

Further, the risk of fascism in the US, although not zero, is less than in almost any other country. At least in the US, the individual has some standing, whereas in most other countries the individual is a mere subject of the state.

Nevertheless, libertarians and other freedom leaning people, need to take a close look on what is happening in the US (and in the West as a whole), with privacy rights almost gone, and arbitrary state coercion becoming more and more common, and then try to reverse the trend somehow.

A vote for Bob Barr might not be a bad first step.

Posted by: Johan i Kanada | 2008-07-13 11:32:42 AM


Like the Ron Paul speech, I am still hoping he will give in and become the VP on the LP ticket. They have a sight commited to seeing this happen. Its http://www.BarrPaul08.com
Go sign the petition!
Go Ron Paul REVOLUTION...!!!

You might be able to sign the Petitioin at http://www.VeepPeek.com as well

Posted by: Paul | 2008-07-13 10:42:09 PM


Zebulon Pike, i would say please shut up, but that would be fruitless and way too polite. Any one can debate if there are no limitations to the validity of the argument.

Mostly i wish people like you would have been there to cushion the fall of the three towers.

Zebulon Pike, Cheney, Bush, Rice, Limbaugh, O'Riley, and gang, you have succeeded at telling the truth. A shallow truth that only needs to hold water until the next EVENT makes headlines and over worked Americans try to fit more into their head.

ANOTHER REAL PROBLEM with America is sinners like you who TALK & TALK & TALK so as to distract us from your next move. If every TV went dim, we would not be debating "ANWR/Drilling" and other crazy ideas. But since there are just enough ignorant Americans to listen and idolize heathens like the people listed above, the intellectuals are forced to fight back. For me, all I see are smart people who could be violently protesting rather than trying to disprove all of the governments "solutions". We will not be forced to listen to your lies for much longer.

So my point is this, go do some cocaine and spend all your RICH people money cuz your time will come you mother fuckers. I will kill you and enjoy the silence afterwards, given any opportunity.

FREEDOM BEFORE PEACE

Posted by: San Diego | 2008-07-14 3:22:51 PM


I'd respond to the above post if I knew what he was talking about.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-14 3:57:43 PM


Hey zeb,

You must not have much love in your life. For that I am truly sorry. It is really to bad that we live by a different set of facts. I'm sure you would agree that 1+1 =2 and that the earth is round. Those are fairly easy ones and easily proven.

However for you 911 truth haters answer me this, did you question the official story of 911 ever or did you let hate take over? Are you even qualified to say you know one way or the other? When we tortured people did you right it off as necessary for our democracy? Are you yourself willing to be torutred, how about your loved ones? When our corporations kill people for profit does it matter to you or are you happy with your cheap goods? Do you ever stop and think before you go to McDonald's. Have you ever turned off american idol?

What if the chinnese came here and blew off your daughters arm and your wifes head, would you welcome them as liberators?

I know you think that people that don't just shut up and listen to what Fox news says are a bunch of traitors but have you just been repeating their talking points or did you come to this conclusion by yourself though insight? Do you go to church on sunday and then wish for Iraqi death on monday?

Are you college educated? Have you ever had a statistical reasoning class? Have you ever looked at American history in a different light, different then all high school text books.

Furthur more have you ever been poor or do you have more then enough money? View point distorts truth. Talking points disrupt truth. Money alienates you from the bulk of your human family. How many poor are there in the world, I don't know but I can google it.

Simple truths are this,

We as a nation are in debt and continue to print money to pay off this debt.

What happens to nations that do this? Look it up on a source that isn't fox news.

You may argue that there was a real reason for going to Iraq, did you look that up or did fox news tell you we had to go in.

Listen, we all know you. We have neighbors and family like you. But what San diego was trying to tell you is this, he loves you, but your side is getting to violent. You say a bunch of things that a high schooler would. Your arguments are based upon name calling. And further more we have learned through watching what your reasoning has done for us. We wish you the best but don't think we are a bunch of tree hugging pussies. I see a slim chance of ever living the american dream now because of traitors like you. You are bankrupting the country, causing inflation, and causing harm to the world. We know that your ilk won't let us live in peace. You are poisoning us through our food and taking away our pursuit of life liberty and happiness. We ARE getting angry. We will not take much more. Soon people will want a target, a target like you my friend. So keep talking buddy, we will only listen so long to your bunch of BS
before someone bitch slaps some common sense into you.

Posted by: oneguy | 2008-07-14 7:04:06 PM


To paraphrase Lisa Simpson,

"I know those words, but that post makes no sense."

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-14 7:19:29 PM


What ever,,,, words are lost on people without a high school education. Enjoy your bliss.

That feeling you are getting is called cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: oneguy | 2008-07-14 8:05:31 PM


Torrie's are what we called the traitors during the American revolution. People loyal to king George, deja vu all over again it would seem.

to quote Homer:
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!

Posted by: oneguy | 2008-07-14 8:09:21 PM


Maybe, just maybe, I have my own views on these subjects, based on my own education and experiences.

I'm a conservative who believes in the system. I want to maintain it, fix what is necessary, and serve the population as best it can.

One only shows arrogance by talking down on someone's education. Lincoln was almost entirely self-educated yet impressed everyone with his intelligence.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-14 8:29:07 PM


Why the fascination with Lincoln? I doubt he was the best prez we ever had. Yes I have visited his Il home plenty and of course who wouldn't admire the rosy American version of him. But it was a time past and I'm sure there is dirt on lincoln. Wasn't he a racist? Whatever.. End result we want the same things. If Ron paul is a conservative then so am I. But Bush's claim to be one is a dubious lie. And if Bush is a christian then I am the pope.

Ok, So you want to be treated as the educated person that you are. I can respect that. But there is NO excuse that you could ever give to justify anything Bush has ever done.

So you don't believe that America is or is moving towards fascism. This shouldn't hard to figure out. When was the last time a corporation didn't get what they want. What about the revolving door of politicians going back and forth to nice corporate jobs and then making policies to help out those corporations.

What about Haliburton trading still with Iran and then moving their hq to dubai.

Personally I'm sick and tired of it. There are hundreds of more examples. Personally I think Bush would make Lincoln sick. But who knows maybe he would have invaded iraq just the same.

Tell me have you
heard of the bohemian grove? Do you think their "mock" sacrifice of a human child is anything close to christian in nature. This is not about Dems vs Repubs. Read between the lines they are the same. And yes my posts make me sound like I'm foaming at the mouth. But you know what I am the calm one in my neighborhood, I don't own a gun. But my neighbors are walking around strapped right now just waiting.. So yes things are getting bad, and you say you are intelligent, fine, I'll believe you. Even my wife's father who loved rush and oreilly and fox news has come around. He's not a "liberal" and neither are my gun toting neighbors, by very definition that is Bush and that is Mccain. But anyone who wishes to kill and maim and cause death and destruction or cheer lead for it you are the enemy now and deserve to be treated as such. So join our side, wake up realize what has happened to your country. It should make you mad.

Posted by: oneguy | 2008-07-14 8:48:23 PM


oneguy: You make way too many assumptions.

For one, this is a *Canadian* blog.

For two, you can be opposed to the truthers and not like Bush. It's possible.

For three, it is possible to think Fox News is full of it, and still think the truthers are wrong.

For four, you can oppose the War in Iraq, and still think the truthers are nuts.

And so on. You're busy accusing others of jumping to conclusions when all you've done is associated non-truthism (or whatever it's called) with pro-Iraq war, pro-Fox news, pro-Bush, pro-Republican, etc.

That's a leap.

Posted by: P.M. Jaworski | 2008-07-14 9:02:53 PM


btw my gun toting neighbors are the mccain supporters, aint it a weird world.

Posted by: oneguy | 2008-07-14 9:18:05 PM


It appears there is not much difference between the libertarians and the Code Pink/Michael Moore crowd.

Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2008-07-14 10:28:44 PM


Michael Moynihan's review of Naomi Wolf's "The End of America: Letter to a Young Patriot" and Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" is now online here:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/127429.html

Terrence Watson reviewed "Liberal Fascism" for the Western Standard in March: http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/article.php?id=2751

Posted by: Kalim Kassam | 2008-07-15 2:56:41 AM


Well, Zebulon, I didn't know I was required to submit a term paper, in order that you would be able to understand or believe the issues I presented. I am not a scholar on fascism. However, I have read some history on it. I suggest you do the same; then, you will be able to understand how the various elements of fascism, within different cultures, converge on some common themes. To be sure, they are not all alike, but they are historically authenticated.

I don't even read Daily Kos, as you're hung up on Bush Derangement Syndrome (whatever that is). Do you offer proof of that psychological diagnosis or malady, or are you just throwing around terms?

Also, please read the comments more carefully. I in know way compared GITMO to the Holocaust. I stated that it does not good to pick apart the two historical issues, as related to imprisonment of Arabs or Jews, because those are techniques based on some perverted philosophy. Really, are you suffering from Symbolic Digression Syndrome (SDS), whereby every little comment has to be turned into some symbolic metaphor? Please read more closely. As a blog writer, you should.

Now, there are other comments, perhaps related to SDS, that you make no sense. First, anyone can be elected in America during a Bush Administration, because Bush and the administration don't elect people. Citizens elect people.

Then, you speak of NGOs and unions as being the bulwark against fascistic tendencies. True, but what of them? They are steadily losing power and being sold down the river by increasingly hostile federal machinations. Just a Bushism? No, Clinton did a good share of damage, too. Remember, he pushed NAFTA. The unions are simply out of gas, I think, since their membership is rapidly declining with the massive outsourcing that is going on. That's a whole other matter. Again, don't let SDS influence your opinion: the Democrats and Republicans are both heavily influenced by growing corporatist control. I don't have space to debate this point, as I'm sure, you'll say there is no "proof" of this.

You also don't buy into a "government-friendly" news media. I can understand this point. I don't know where you get your news, but the Mainstream Media in the U.S. only bashes Bush (to use your term) on cosmetic elements. It's a bit of trickery, to be sure. The media will point out the obvious, but they won't chastise and criticize the President on key issues. They won't raise fundamental concerns that don't agree with the White House. Again, I could offer dozens of examples, but the key point is this: in the White House briefings, why are not key questions raised, wherein the President i forced to respond to these questions with more than a flippant or short response? I watch these briefings and am amazed at how genial the reporters are, and how the President gets by with a quip and a short answer. It doesn't fly. And there are some reporters who have made gripes about this (and quickly shut down, of course). So, I'd ask, what planet are you living on?

Then, you bring up something about 9/11 and conspiracy theories. And some mish-mosh about government interconnections among the telecom industries. What are you talking about? First, there are no conspiracies that I'm aware of: there is a lot of planning and acting to do things--but these aren't conspiracies. That must be a new psychological term: Conspiracy Deflection Syndrome (CDS). I think, if you can't handle the facts, then you deflect them over to CDS. Then, CDS allows you to ignore facts. I like that--clever.

Well, my advice to you is this: start reading, do a little research, and get back to me when you are ready to discuss some facts, debate some philosophy, and ask good questions. Then, I won't hold SDS and CDS against you.


Posted by: Scott Harmon | 2008-07-15 11:05:18 PM



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