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Sunday, March 02, 2008
In Response to Muslim Demands, Harvard's Gym Now Has Women-Only Hours
According to student Ola Aljawhary, a member of the Harvard Islamic Society:
"These hours are necessary because there is a segment of the Harvard female population that is not found in gyms, not because they don't want to work out, but because for them working out in a co-ed gym is uncomfortable, awkward or problematic in some way."
This makes it sound like Harvard has non-religious reasons for discriminating on the basis of gender. However, the communications directory of Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences frankly admitted that it was done for "religious purposes."
Religiously-based gender discrimination? At Harvard? If only the students had access to a human rights tribunal...
Posted by Terrence Watson on March 2, 2008 | Permalink
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I can't wait to hear Harvard's excuse when the Kampus KKK demand "whites only" hours.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 2-Mar-08 6:13:34 PM
Wouldn't it be something if during these women only hours a whole bunch of scantily-clad ladies took part? How soon would it be until there was hours designated for fully clothed women only? And what about the trannies?
Posted by: wallyj | 2-Mar-08 6:37:57 PM
And this is supposed to be a place of "higher" learning, how insane. h2o has a point but of course such a demand would be treated with outrage, just as if non Muslim men had requested/demanded no women during their time in the gym.
Posted by: Alain | 2-Mar-08 7:36:42 PM
"These hours are necessary because there is a segment of the Harvard female population that is not found in gyms, not because they don't want to work out, but because for them working out in a co-ed gym is uncomfortable, awkward or problematic in some way."
Big deal,
Int Mtl, It's the windows of a YMCA that we had to paint to please the religious eyes in a temple near by. In a open society like the one we have in Quebec, we respect a great value like freedom of religion. In exchange, the only thing that we ask as a society is, respect the ones who don't beleive like you do and dont impose your religion to others. I beleive people feel the same everywhere freedom of religion is a value.
Posted by: Marc | 2-Mar-08 8:02:12 PM
So to ask the obvious question: where is the ACLU?
Posted by: Doug | 2-Mar-08 8:06:41 PM
Better get used to this people, as we abort our culture, they breed unabated. We will lose this cultural battle through attrition. Not pretty but reality usually isn’t.
Posted by: gunner | 2-Mar-08 9:36:51 PM
That's news how? "Female Only" Gyms have been around for a while. ANY Gym I have ever been a member with (sans the Y in Toronto) have "womens only" areas.
So Harvard seems to have "discovered" this now as well, what's the big deal? If women don't mind guys in the area they can continue to use the gym as before.
Storm in a glass.
Posted by: Snowrunner | 3-Mar-08 12:03:42 PM
Hi Showrunner,
I think religiously-neutral arguments can be made on behalf of women-only gym hours. What's interesting here is that Harvard officials are claiming that the policy was set up specifically for religious reasons, i.e. the policy's justification is not neutral with respect to religions.
One might think religiously-based gender discrimination is unjust. Is it unjust in this case? That would seem to be an open question among commentators here.
Terrence
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 3-Mar-08 12:42:41 PM
One might think religiously-based gender discrimination is unjust. Is it unjust in this case? That would seem to be an open question among commentators here.
Terrence
Posted by: Terrence Watson | 3-Mar-08 12:42:41 PM
I think the outcry came because of the word "muslim" in it, if it would hvae been "Christian" it would have been business as usual.
Personally I think this Gender segregation is utterly BS under any circumstances, but why go after Harvward when the net effect can already be seen in other places?
Posted by: Snowrunner | 3-Mar-08 12:57:59 PM
Snow,
Not so long ago in Québec, it was the Catholic Religion that was dictating the rules around here and everybody knows it brought much more pain than beautiful memories.
As a society tired of being the slaves of the Church and its radicals, we made a revolution that brought the seperation of State and Religion. The same was done in Europe and everywhere in Canada as you know it.
Therefore, there's still a majority of us who understand the importance of Religion in the life of people so we granted our Charte des Droits with something called Freedom of religion. This means that everyone in Canada have the right to live by their own religion and beliefs and no one can restrict that.
But don't impose it on the others - in any occasion.
I don't care what religion you're from as long as you don't impose the practice of it on the majority - witch beleive firmly in the seperation of Church and State. I you do so, be prepare to be exposed and judged by your fellow citizens.
The States still have the Church stucked in the same bed as the State. It's gonna be harder for them to defend their point that the place of religious practices should be at home and in Temles alone.
Posted by: Marc | 3-Mar-08 3:05:11 PM
Snowy
"So Harvard seems to have "discovered" this now as well, what's the big deal? If women don't mind guys in the area they can continue to use the gym as before."
That's the point. Can the guys object? Or how about the Christians?. White? Black? Jews?
Is there a list somewhere of which group is allowed segragated facilities whereas others aren't so fortunate?
Please tell me where you draw the line.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 3-Mar-08 3:12:37 PM
Marc,
yes, the speration of church and state exists, but as far as religious influence goes this ranks on the barely noticable meter. If any Christian group would have made that demand this wouldn't have gotten any play here, if it would have been some other student group it wouldn't have gotten a mention here, the only reason why the Shotgun is loading the gun is because the word Muslim and Islam was in there.
Women aren't forced to use the gym during this time, they can if they want to, if nobody uses it, they will stop offering it. I think this segregation (any really) is stupid and backwards into history but the same seperation exists "in the real world" without anybody starting to scream bloody murder. A bit of perspective may be good at times.
-----------------
Please tell me where you draw the line.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 3-Mar-08 3:12:37 PM
The moment you start protesting the "womens only" area in your gym (should you ever set a foot in one) you can come talking to me, until then keep doing what you do and try to deflect my statements so that they fit into your warped view of the world.
Posted by: Snowrunner | 3-Mar-08 4:32:57 PM
So maybe Harvard should ban dogs, alcohol, pubic hair, Jews, or any infidel, and of course pork from campus too because it makes them uncomfortable, oh boo hoo.
Posted by: Larry | 3-Mar-08 4:51:33 PM
Snowy
"The moment you start protesting the "womens only" area in your gym (should you ever set a foot in one) you can come talking to me, until then keep doing what you do and try to deflect my statements so that they fit into your warped view of the world."
Actually, I built a gym in the basement of my house. I lift regularly. Did you happen to catch the Arnold Classic in Columbus this weekend? Dexter beat Heath. I was rooting for Branch but I must say Kai took my breath away.
I could talk deadlifts, presses, and supersets all day but back to business.
Anyway, I won't protest women's only gyms. I will protest women's only gyms where men are not allowed to also have men's only gyms. Had you been paying attention, you would know that.
Does Harvard have men's only time? After the way they treated Larry Summers, I have my doubts.
Speaking of "warped view of the world", welcome back.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 3-Mar-08 5:07:49 PM
Once again one notes the willful deniers that this is about accepting Sharia. Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted by: Alain | 3-Mar-08 7:18:00 PM
...gunner you hit the nail on the head. Western society is doomed due to attrition (read: abortion) rate.
I feel sorry for today's kids. Then again hopefully they will see the error of their fathers and want a Western lifestyle.
Posted by: tomax7 | 3-Mar-08 8:03:41 PM
h2o- Kai took your breath away? I understand why you might not support women only gyms.
I was a zone coach at a big sporting event recently, and had to deal with a food issue. The athletes were given sandwiches, and a couple of them asked for pork free meals. The old girls who were running the food court thought they were being overly fussy and ignored them. When I explained that it might be because of their religion, the ladies were very good about it, and made sure they had better variety from then on.
I didn't try to pursue the issue, and ask if they needed prayer mats or the like. Sometimes a small token gesture can head off a bigger problem.
Posted by: dp | 3-Mar-08 8:12:29 PM
dp,
"Kai took your breath away? "
Yep. I saw him last year at the Colorado. He packed on 25+ extra lbs since then and was remined well defined. Bravo. Lats like an eagle.
"I understand why you might not support women only gyms."
You (and Snowy) misunderstand. I support women only gyms...on one condition...men have the same rights... in a public setting.
Does Harvard allow men only time? KKK only time? Jew only time? Black only time?
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 3-Mar-08 8:19:35 PM
Why only the Muslim complain so much,
Indians don't want all and cows off the pasture.
Jews don't freak out if they see a pig.
If they had their choice even dogs would be banned!
http://misskelly.typepad.com/miss_kelly_/2008/02/folly-at-harvar.html
Posted by: larry | 3-Mar-08 11:30:35 PM
larry-
My sons have a jew friend and a hindu friend. They were visiting one day and my girlfriend made stir fry and left it on the table without telling me what kind of meat was in it. I swore it was chicken and we all enjoyed it.
I don't think muslims mind other people eating pork. Not sure about the hindus but I know my son's friend goes to mcdonalds with them. As far as dogs are concerned we keep an eye on my son's Korean friend.
Posted by: dp | 3-Mar-08 11:50:26 PM
C'mon Larry,
Christians would like abortions to be illegal and marriages to be between a man and a woman only because it's written in the Bible. Georges Bush tells the Nation he governs that God speaks directly to him. I don’t see any difference between this and Kuccinich pretending in a debate that he saw extra-terrestrial ships. Seeks had made their male kids to wear a knife in schools in Canada. My example regarding the YMCA was a complaint from the Hassidim community. The Jehovah want that our doctors let their kids to die if their sakes depend on blood transfusions. Muslims have many examples of that nature too.
I don't mind religious symbols and I think diversity is a must, but please keep your religious laws out of our public system and don't force it on others.
The West was not invented to create tribalism and everybody is equal or if you prefer, no special rights for religious concerns should be tolerated if it's interfering with the rights of the Man of the street - whether he’s from within your religion or not.
If we don't respect firmly a value like the separation of State and Religion in our modern societies and public sphere, expect ghettos to appear and a climate of tension will take place.
*
"Not sure about the hindus but I know my son's friend goes to mcdonalds with them."
And what kind of meat we're suppose to find at McDonalds ? Even their fries are not made of potatoes.
Posted by: Marc | 4-Mar-08 1:16:07 AM
What about not picking up blind passengers in a taxi because they have a seeing eye dog or beer.
Take a drivers lic pic. w/a veil on.
Special wash areas for the feet after prayer.
Annoying call for prayer.
Crizizing Mohhamed in any way even a picture and thet freak out!
And so much more. Why do we have to bend over for them.
Assimilate like most others who cam here.
Posted by: larry | 4-Mar-08 2:03:05 AM
Oh, please, Harvard, spare us the righteous political correctness. Enlightened Westerners, especially women, rant and rave without compunction about the Islamic world’s backward treatment of women. And rightly so. Yet Harvard expects its paying male population to be respectful of Islamic women’s medieval notions about men? Even when it deprives men of access to a University resource that is supposed to available to everyone? You know, Title IX and all that. Would a fair-minded person sense a double standard here? The question scarcely survives its statement.
It is unfathomable why parents of young Harvard men who are paying staggering tuition would allow their sons to be treated as second class citizens. News flash to Harvard: the young men you are banning are the customers. You work for them.
It is unfortunate that Muslim women don't feel comfortable exercising around men. But the world doesn't stop to accommodate my discomfort or, I dare say, the discomfort of men in general. If a small group of Catholic men sought, in good faith, to ban women from the gym for similar periods of time because their skimpy outfits had become near occasions of sin for them, we all know damn well what Harvard’s response would be. Why is this different? We all know why. The “protected class” is the right sex and the right religion.
Posted by: Judge Rufus Peckham | 5-Mar-08 7:12:04 AM
In the uk we have been forced to shut swimming pools on two days a week in case muslim women want to use it. Sometimes only one or two attend so the pool loses a lot of revenue by obeying the law.
We also have built prayer rooms along the m6 mororway because it can be hard to pray on a motorway from muslims.
We have a "Stamp duty" tax to pay when we buy a house..guess what?? The muslims complained that they are not allowed to pay this so they dont have to!! It can be up to £1000 sometimes.
We have to have them sounding their "Call to prayer" from mosques (in otherwise christian neighbourhoods)..and soon we are to have the biggest mosque in the world built in london which accomodated 44000 worshippers at any time, and attached to it will be a muslim residential school that will teach Islam to 400 muslim children a year. Some sources say this is being financed by a terror organistaion but noone knows.
we better get ready cos islam is coming to everyone in the world and our governments do nothing to stop it
Posted by: Colin | 5-Mar-08 10:31:19 AM
I am getting tired of seeing the word Muslim in the headlines across the country regarding this issue – it is BS. This is about women who don’t want to work out in a room with men and a request 6 out of 70 hours of one of the least-used gyms at Harvard. No, I am not Muslim, but I am a woman and the last I heard, we are not a minority, we comprise 50% of the population. Stop the whining, and give us our 6 hours of male-free gym use, please.
Posted by: Woman | 8-Mar-08 9:04:04 PM
If that were the case, why was this request made by the other 50%, rather than 6 Muslim women!
Posted by: lary | 9-Mar-08 1:17:14 AM
Woman: Whatever happened to equal rights? I thought women wanted to be equal with men? ..."give us our 6 hours of male-free gym use, please." ...heard of Curves?
Posted by: Markalta | 9-Mar-08 10:16:54 AM
What ever happened to humanism and equality?
If men demanded woman-free time at the gym, feminists would be up in arms. But misandry is A-OK, I guess, if it's backed up by religious superstition.
Male-only spaces are decried as horrible, sexist institutions that government must tear down to equalize the sexes -- yet then many seem intent on using government to enforce women-only spaces.
It's segregation and it should not be tolerated by an open society.
Women who have misandrous beliefs that prevent them from sharing space with men, due to religious superstition or any other personal/political belief, should be free to exercise at home or in a private environment that provides that male-free setting they desire (and men should be free to do the same). However, transforming a publicly-funded facility into a segregated facility is unacceptable and should be opposed by free-thinking people.
Posted by: Brian | 10-Mar-08 10:13:38 AM
Woman,
" Stop the whining, and give us our 6 hours of male-free gym use, please."
It was whining that got you your 6 hours in the first place.
I find it very insensitive of you to now turnaround and belittle observations that men are being discriminated against.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 10-Mar-08 10:18:22 AM
I don't train women in my gym. I made the decision and I'm sticking to it. I'll close down if I'm pushed to change.
I'm waiting. Hit me.
Posted by: dp | 10-Mar-08 11:25:26 AM
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