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Saturday, March 15, 2008
Damned for telling the truth
From today's Vancouver Sun:
Tom Happynook, president of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council on Vancouver Island, called his comments "despicable."
MacKay, the Bulkley Valley-Stikine MLA, made the comments during a meeting of the select standing committee on children and youth. "I don't believe for a moment that every child that went to a residential school was abused," he said.
So, what exactly is "despicable" here? Given that what MacKay said is undeniably true--that many, many aboriginals did benefit from the residential schools (I've talked to them myself; and the old Western/Alberta/B.C. Report famously reported this some years ago), and given that it is also demonstrably true that not all children in the schools were abused (unless one counts the very act of their enrolment as "abuse")--then what's despicable must be the MacKay's failure to embrace the simplistic, self-serving ideology of victimology adhered to by many Native leaders and their non-Native enablers.
Can a human-rights complaint be far behind?
Posted by Terry O'Neill on March 15, 2008 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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I wonder whether we will see the day when the federal government is sued for making the aboriginals dependant on welfare and handouts.
Posted by: dewp | 15-Mar-08 11:04:03 AM
If memory serves, many of the parents of these self-styled "survivors" were keen on their children going, because they thought that if their children received a Eurocentric education they would have a better future with more opportunities. I believe that treaties with certain tribes STIPULATED that the children attend residential schools.
The fact that support for the residential schools was not universal does not make them the Frankensteinian houses of horror that the blood-sucking lawyers chasing compensation dollars like to portray. Lawyers suing on behalf of those institutionalized with mental illness paint the same picture--verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, dismal survival rates--and now Riverview is all but closed, the former inmates sleeping in the streets and stripping the windshield wipers off parked cars to feed their drug habits.
Anytime ANYONE gets emotional with you, or appeals to your feelings, your pity, or your compassion, the best thing you can do is turn your back and not listen--keeping one eye out for a knife in the back, of course.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 15-Mar-08 11:15:57 AM
An old friend and ex-coach of mine attended one of these schools in Vancouver. He came from Lillooet, which is a fairly rough reserve. His experience was certainly better than the alternative. He was treated a bit better than most kids because he was on the boxing team. He saw some kids get abused, mainly for speaking their native tongue.
My friend won a National Championship in 1959. Without the support and coaching from one of the priests, he would not have accomplished this. He had nothing but praise for most of his teachers.
He put up with serious prejudice in those days. The provincial coach hated him for beating one of his athletes, and tried his best to cause him to lose. You may know that coach. He's the referee that got knocked out during an amateur match.
My friend managed to hang on to some of the old culture thanks to his grandmother. I think he's back on the reserve teaching the young kids about their history, or what hasn't been forgotten.
Posted by: dp | 15-Mar-08 11:54:42 AM
dp said,
"My friend won a National Championship in 1959. Without the support and coaching from one of the priests, he would not have accomplished this. He had nothing but praise for most of his teachers. "
To which:
"Tom Happynook, president of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council on Vancouver Island, called his comments "despicable."
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 15-Mar-08 11:59:24 AM
To which:
My friend would kick Tom Happynook's ass.
Posted by: dp | 15-Mar-08 12:12:23 PM
dp,
"My friend would kick Tom Happynook's ass."
And the cycle of violence continues thanks to the legacy of these residential schools. Sad.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 15-Mar-08 12:27:25 PM
My question:
What do you think about a growing class of people in our country who are nearly completely dependent on tax payers for their livelihoods perhaps for all time.
Political correctness and Liberal guilt dictates that nothing can be said or done to change the status quo because we stole their land. It seems there is not price that we can pay that will satisfy the current swath of Indian Chiefs.
We are handing over billions every years directly and indirectly for no good reason that I can see.
This could go on forever people!!
An MP from Newfoundland was severely chastised many years ago in Parliament for uttering the words "We should have killed them all when we had the chance". This was after never-ending debates on the Indian affairs circus that he apparently was completely fed up with at the much earlier time.
I don't suggest we kill the Indians, but I do suggest we cut the cord and see if they can get up on their hind legs or not. I think they can.
Posted by: John West | 15-Mar-08 12:54:06 PM
As to the residential schools: Nearly all native leaders of today attended them, so obviously there were some benefits of that education.
Posted by: Markalta | 15-Mar-08 4:49:23 PM
Markalta said
"As to the residential schools: Nearly all native leaders of today attended them, so obviously there were some benefits of that education."
To which:
"Tom Happynook, president of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council on Vancouver Island, called his comments "despicable."
Don't blame me! I didn't start this victim mentality based on racial politics.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 15-Mar-08 5:04:20 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the mere act of sending a child to the school was an act of abuse. I hate to say it but it was Jean Cretien who, while minister of Indian Affairs, recommended that we should do away with the reserve system.
Posted by: DML | 15-Mar-08 9:00:03 PM
DML
" I hate to say it but it was Jean Cretien who, while minister of Indian Affairs, recommended that we should do away with the reserve system."
Tell it to the victims of kanesetake.
Posted by: h2o273kk9 | 15-Mar-08 9:06:46 PM
To sooth all the angry souls on here, look what I found today:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkness/sets/72157604129922571/
Posted by: Snowrunner | 15-Mar-08 11:51:34 PM
Aboriginal kids on reserves today are more likely to be abused or neglected than the kids that went to residential schools.
Posted by: philanthropist | 16-Mar-08 1:21:45 AM
If Chretien said we should do away with the Reserve system, he's right on that one. It's a form of segregation.
While all Reserves are not alike, too many are living in squalor in spite of massive amounts of our dollars flooding into them. There seems to be no one accountable in those cases so we're left to speculate. The call for money to keep them going is insatiable, a bottomless pit with no respect shown for property thus the taxpayers of Canada. Add to that, our laws do not apply to Natives as we see being played out in places like Caledonia.
Sad mess.
Posted by: Liz J | 16-Mar-08 7:20:55 AM
Excellent point philanthropist!!! Keep it quiet though, or the government will end up paying for that too.
Posted by: Markalta | 16-Mar-08 9:52:43 AM
The people telling the stories about how "wonderful" the residential schools were are alive to tell the story. Many thousands of children are not. Half of the children died there.
The Canadian government and the churches are trying to cover up this information.
Posted by: saga | 16-Mar-08 3:20:00 PM
John West,
First, we should "cut the cord" of Canada's dependence on natural resources taken without payment from Indigenous land.
Posted by: saga | 16-Mar-08 3:22:25 PM
Half the children died there? God I hope that's not true.
Give me some background on that statement saga.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 3:23:02 PM
Taken without payment from indigenous land? Again, some background please.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 3:25:18 PM
The Crown has a legal Duty to Consult and make agreements with Indigenous Peoples about all development and uses of their traditional land. They are legally entitled to a say in development and a share in revenues. However, our governments evade this law.
Facts ...
DELIBERATE GENOCIDE OF ABORIGINAL PEOPLE IN CANADA – THE FACTS
Evidence of the intent by government and churches to commit genocide against native people, reflecting a national policy and plan (documents are available):
a. The report of Dr. Peter Bryce, summer 1907, in which a constantly high death rate of between 30%-50% was found in most western residential schools because of a practice by staff of “deliberately infecting children with infectious diseases”. This death rate stayed constant for over 40 years (Globe and Mail, April 24, 2007).
b. Statistical Tables from the federal government reveal a net de-population of native people across Canada between 1904 and 1917 of nearly 25%, and again during the 1920’s. This decline was directly attributable to widespread and untreated tuberculosis.
c. Despite this huge mortality level in the residential schools, the federal government passed a law in 1920 requiring compulsory attendance in these schools by every native child, on pain of imprisonment and fining of their parents.
d. The same year (1919-1920), all medical inspection of these schools was abolished by a federal government order-in-council. Deaths of native students from tuberculosis rose dramatically immediately following this abolition of medical inspection.
e. During the subsequent decade (1920-30), natives were stripped of their legal rights and power to hire a lawyer (1927), formal legal guardianship of native children was transferred from the federal government to residential school Principals, i.e., the churches (1929), and involuntary sterilization laws were implemented by which any native child in these schools could legally be made infertile (1929-1933).
f. One third to one half of residential school students continued to die on average for nearly fifty years (1900-1950), despite repeated studies and warnings to the churches and federal government.
g. The policy of the federal government was not to hospitalize Indians and Inuit people suffering and dying from tuberculosis. (Globe and Mail, May 29, 1953)
h. Numerous accounts exist of native children sick with tuberculosis being admitted en masse into residential schools and deliberately housed with the healthy, causing subsequent deaths. No segregation of sick and healthy was practiced.
i. Native children consistently died at a much higher rate within residential schools than outside them, because of conditions within the schools that "weakened ... their constitution". Despite knowing this, government officials took no action. (Letter of M. McKay to D.C. Scott, April 1910)
j. Native children infected with smallpox and tuberculosis were deliberately sent back to their homes and into native villages by residential school staff and doctors (e.g., Mission Catholic school, 1923).
k. Two distinct standards of health and medical care were practiced by government and church doctors at the residential schools, along clear racial lines. Native children received a consistently lower standard of attention and treatment (e.g., letter of Dr. F. Pitts, Lejac school, 1934).
l. Government officials, including the heads of Indian Affairs, authorized these practices through a policy that legitimated lack of care and widespread deaths on the grounds that “a high death rate from tuberculosis and other diseases is to be expected … among Indian children” (DIA Superintendent D.C. Scott, 1918).
m. Extensive residential school records were deliberately destroyed by federal government “document destruction teams” throughout the 1950’s and ‘60’s across Canada (Ottawa Sun, May, 2007). Government and church officials suppressed evidence of deaths and other crimes in residential schools consistently for nearly a century, and as recently as the 1960’s. (Province, October, 1998)
Source:
Documents from the RG 10 series on Indian Residential Schools, federal Department of Indian Affairs, Ottawa, (Vols. R 7733), reproduced in Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust (2005, 2nd ed.) by K. Annett
Posted by: saga | 16-Mar-08 3:34:49 PM
Saga,
Your factual review of the European culture's genocidal tendencies in history will not play well to the white apologists above who gather here at westernstandard.ca. The European Christians initiated and perpetuated 5 great genocides in the most recent millennium;
#1 The Inquisition 1300's to 1832 - killed (and tortured, starved, jailed, buried alive...) over 7,000,000 + "heretics", "protestants" "athiests" gays, women, mentally ill, talented, herbalists, etc.
including 2,000,000 "witches", all women, and most having a relationship with plant culture (herbs, flowers,etc.) executed, banished, exiled, in the same period.
#2 The African slave trade genocide. An estimated 3 million slaves killed in transit, on plantations, on the run, disease, from 1600 to 1861.
#3 The Aboriginal Exterminations in North and South America, the Caribbean, Australia, by European Conquistadors, British Colonization, etc. These genocides are enormous, killing 95% of the original races in three continents. Deliberate and predatory, 3 million to 15 million people genocided. Those not killed were put into concentration camps (reserves) and the 1923 Residential Schools Act forcibly forbid the teaching of native languages and philosophies, physically removed all children from their parents and moved them, usually hundreds of miles away, the be brainwashed by Anglo-Christian "teachers". Oh yeah, the white European are so superior, indeed...
#4 The Jewish Extermination in Europe from 1500's to 1945, virtually every country in continental Europe in the 20th century had a pogrom against Jews, worst in Germany, Serbia, Russia, Poland, Rumania, Bulgaria, Croatia. Possibly 6,000,000 Jews killed by Europeans in the 20th century, but 1,000,000 Jews were killed in Russia and Europe from the 1300's to 1900. Jews were not even allowed in England prior to 1832.
#5 A smaller scale pogrom, but systemic and mass segregation, was the treatment of the Chinese in North America. All western provinces and states passed Asian-exclusion laws mandating ghettos for Chinese (Chinatowns), restrictive employment laws, refusal of citizenship (and voting), opium laws to arrest and deport Chinese, etc. Riots were frequent in Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco against the Chinese communities.
These European white Christian types are the same ones who run the USA and Canada, who dominate the RCMP, CSIS, CIA, etc. The same murdering ruling elite that destroyed the indigenous cultures in Canada
and the USA are today killing and occupying countries around the world and using the same bullshit lies to explain it away. "Freedom" "progress" but mostly it is all about preserving the white culture's privilege on planet earth.
Posted by: Marc Scott Emery | 16-Mar-08 9:12:15 PM
Saga, I don't believe a word of this. What you're basically offering for consumption here is basically a Canadian version of Area 51 and the grassy knoll. Your primary source, "Hidden from History," was published by a radical group calling themselves "the Truth Commission," who advocate a boycott on all Canadian goods and services and on the 2010 Olympics. They even talk of suing the Queen.
Genocide in mental institutions turned out to be mostly BS; sexual abuse by Catholic priests turned out to be mostly BS; sudden acceleration in Audis turned out to be completely BS. But all were pushed into the limelight by greedy lawyers trying to manufacture a crisis on which they could get rich. So go crawl back under your stone, Saga. One more conspiracy nut--or worse yet, an ambulance chaser POSING as a conspiracy nut--we don't need.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 9:22:52 PM
Marc Emery wrote: “The European Christians initiated and perpetuated 5 great genocides in the most recent millennium.”
And non-whites perpetrated genocides killing many more. The Mongol invasions alone killed more than 40 million people. The Japanese butchery during World War II exceeded anything done by the Nazis. And then there’s the Great Leap Forward and the Killing Fields. Why no mention of these?
Marc Emery wrote: “The Inquisition 1300's to 1832 - killed (and tortured, starved, jailed, buried alive...) over 7,000,000 + "heretics", "protestants" "athiests" gays, women, mentally ill, talented, herbalists, etc. including 2,000,000 "witches", all women, and most having a relationship with plant culture (herbs, flowers,etc.) executed, banished, exiled, in the same period.”
Torture was used in only about 2 percent of cases; the Inquisition was far more restrained than secular courts of the time. The traditional number of victims is now believed to be grossly exaggerated; probably between 3,000 and 5,000. Secular authorities, not the Church, performed the actual torturing and execution. People burned at the stake were usually strangled first. The Inquisition, like the Vietnam war, has been one of the most luridly misreported events in history.
Marc Emery wrote: “The African slave trade genocide. An estimated 3 million slaves killed in transit, on plantations, on the run, disease, from 1600 to 1861.”
It may have been the Europeans who bought and used, but it was other Africans who raided, captured, and sold. What, no word of reproach for them?
Marc Emery wrote: “The Aboriginal Exterminations in North and South America, the Caribbean, Australia, by European Conquistadors, British Colonization, etc. These genocides are enormous, killing 95% of the original races in three continents. Deliberate and predatory…”
Most of the pre-Columbian population of North America fell victim to disease against which they had no resistance, not murder.
Marc Emery wrote: “he Jewish Extermination in Europe from 1500's to 1945, virtually every country in continental Europe in the 20th century had a pogrom against Jews, worst in Germany, Serbia, Russia, Poland, Rumania, Bulgaria, Croatia. Possibly 6,000,000 Jews killed by Europeans in the 20th century, but 1,000,000 Jews were killed in Russia and Europe from the 1300's to 1900. Jews were not even allowed in England prior to 1832.”
One of Europe’s darkest disgraces, I agree. The modern state of Israel would not exist if Europeans could be relied upon to treat Jews decently. But Jews were not persecuted because of their religion. It was because they remained stubbornly and intractably insular and looked down on their hosts as inferior, much as Gypsies do today (and Gypsies are disliked for the same reason).
Marc Emery wrote: “A smaller scale pogrom, but systemic and mass segregation, was the treatment of the Chinese in North America. All western provinces and states passed Asian-exclusion laws mandating ghettos for Chinese (Chinatowns), restrictive employment laws, refusal of citizenship (and voting), opium laws to arrest and deport Chinese, etc. Riots were frequent in Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco against the Chinese communities.”
Selective immigration policies are not the same as pogroms.
Marc Emery wrote: “These European white Christian types are the same ones who run the USA and Canada, who dominate the RCMP, CSIS, CIA, etc. The same murdering ruling elite that destroyed the indigenous cultures in Canada
and the USA are today killing and occupying countries around the world and using the same bullshit lies to explain it away. "Freedom" "progress" but mostly it is all about preserving the white culture's privilege on planet earth.”
Could it be that the Prince of Pot has never read “The Prince” by Niccolo Machiavelli? That's okay, princeling. I understand your words as the frustration and bitterness of a cornered man who has finally been called to account for a lifetime of lawlessness, and will not hold you too much in contempt for them. But take heart. In the event that your deal does fall through and you are extradited along with your friends, the Americans may be gracious enough to allow the three of you to share the same tumbril.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 9:48:09 PM
Marc expects us to carry the burden of guilt over the sins of our ancestors, but he doesn't seem to have any of these feelings himself. Has he somehow been absolved of any responsibility? Were his ancestors just nicer to the Chinese than mine were? He grew up and lives with the same priviledges that were attained through the ruthless massacre of the indigenous people.
I've seen his picture. He's as white as I am. In fact, I have a lot more in common with Indians than he. I probably have more Indian, Chinese, and Black acquaintances than he. I didn't say friends because that would make an assumption I can't back up.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 10:34:57 PM
DP, Marc Emery is a narcissist, as evinced by his constant and very public clashes with the law; he could work quietly in the sidelines, but chooses to grandstand. Among their other failings, narcissists admit to no fault with themselves, even when they sin as others sin.
Like Narcissus, Marc has bent over too far and gone face-first into the cold waters of reality. His hysterical orgy of declamations is merely the noisiest part of the drowning that usually follows such a smackdown. Apparently he's having second thoughts about his self-imposed martyrdom, now that it's about to become a reality.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 11:43:01 PM
"Among their other failings, narcissists admit to no fault with themselves, even when they sin as others sin… His hysterical orgy of declamations is merely the noisiest part of the drowning that usually follows such a smackdown."
Shane, it's almost like you're trying to say something bigger than just a comment on Marc. You know, like when the dad on a 70's sitcom looks right into the camera on those Very Special Episodes and you realize he's not just telling Arnold and Willis to say no to old men with candy?
Posted by: Pattern Recognition | 17-Mar-08 9:17:18 AM
I presume you mean the episode of "Diffrn't Strokes" dealing with the child molester, Pattern. Don't see what that has to do with Marc Emery. He's been all over this blog, carpet-bombing us with his moral superiority on topics he is clearly ignorant of. In short, the man is pissed and embittered, and lashing out at the political constituency he holds responsible for his dramatic change in fortunes. He has spent the better part of his life poking people in the eye, but now seems genuinely shocked and hurt that someone has poked back.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 10:49:26 AM
Nah I meant the line about how "narcissists admit to no fault with themselves, even when they sin as others sin… His hysterical orgy of declamations is merely the noisiest part of the drowning that usually follows such a smackdown."
It could apply to a few folks here who, when challenged, erupt into a fit of rage and catcalls, randomly flinging precolumbian trivia.
Posted by: Pattern Recognition | 17-Mar-08 10:53:13 AM
Pattern, you're not going to accomplish anything by this fence-sitting, hedge-creeping, pussy-footing of insinuation and innuendo. If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise hold your tongue or reveal yourself for an infernal witch-finder.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 10:59:58 AM
Shane
Do yourself a favour and don't respond to PR. He rarely comments on the subject of the post. It's much easier to pick at someones argument when you haven't revealed your own.
Posted by: dp | 17-Mar-08 11:03:37 AM
Marc expects us to carry the burden of guilt over the sins of our ancestors, but he doesn't seem to have any of these feelings himself.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 10:34:57 PM
Oh that's a good one. You've thrown similar accusations my way, yet suddenly you are upset about this.
Poor DP.
Posted by: Snowrunner | 17-Mar-08 11:18:47 AM
Good morning superman.
What's your contribution to this post?
I don't imagine the school issue will cool down until every "victim" is buried. The lawsuits will continue for at least one more generation. It might be diffused if a few native leaders concede they got a proper education because of the schools. Right now there's no political weight in making such a statement.
Posted by: dp | 17-Mar-08 11:31:06 AM
A few may have got a decent education, at the expense of others though. Abusers do manipulate children against one another.
The reason the issue is still important is because none of the perpetrators have been brought to justice and the government and churches have not acknowledged their true purposes. There is still a long way for Canada to go. Genocide occurred over generations ... 6 generations of Indigenous children went to the schools and if they didn't die there, it pretty much destroyed their lives. It will take generations before the effects are mitigated, and only if we start now.
Denying the genocide in the residential schools is just a waste of time that could be used to move forward.
Posted by: saga | 17-Mar-08 4:56:15 PM
>"Denying the genocide in the residential schools is just a waste of time that could be used to move forward."
saga | 17-Mar-08 4:56:15 PM
Residential schools were the way forward until they were falsely painted as the sexual abuse equivalent of Auschwitz.
What, saga, do you imagine is the way forward now?
Posted by: Speller | 17-Mar-08 5:09:13 PM
Saga wrote: “A few may have got a decent education, at the expense of others though. Abusers do manipulate children against one another.”
Provided you can prove that abuse and genocide were the schools’ primary function. You’ve gone a long way from the Nazi-esque conspiracy theories of your first post, if this incredibly lame rebuttal is the best you can come up with. And remember that adults don’t manipulate children to a tenth the extent that other children do.
Saga wrote: “The reason the issue is still important is because none of the perpetrators have been brought to justice and the government and churches have not acknowledged their true purposes. There is still a long way for Canada to go.”
We’ve gone quite far enough in addressing this “sins of the father” crap. What my ancestors may or may not have done to your ancestors is no concern of mine, no responsibility of mine, and no liability of mine. Any perpetrators from the early 1910s have been dead for decades. And the living cannot sue on behalf of dead to which they bear no legal relationship (which does not include race).
Saga wrote: “Genocide occurred over generations ... 6 generations of Indigenous children went to the schools and if they didn't die there, it pretty much destroyed their lives.”
Yes, and they’re doing so much better on the reservations, aren’t they? Cut the hand-wringing. Even if it did happen to anything like the extent you claim (and I am 99 percent certain it did not), it is not up to my generation to make amends for it.
Saga wrote: “It will take generations before the effects are mitigated, and only if we start now. Denying the genocide in the residential schools is just a waste of time that could be used to move forward.”
Descendants are NOT responsible for the conduct of their ancestors, and one cannot apply modern ethics to historical situations. Any forward steps taken by First Nations will have to be taken by the First Nations themselves. And that will never happen so long as the culture of victimhood shackles their feet like broken logs.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 5:35:34 PM
It isn't history yet. There are people alive today who watched their siblings be tortured to death in the residential death schools, and the perpetrators are still alive too.
There are over 50,000 children buries in unmarked mass graves all across Canada. Their families were never informed of their fate.
There must be a full investigation with International oversight.
It was genocide ... genocide for land to be specific. Kill as many as possible, disperse and traumatize all of them for 6 generations and hope that they never have the strength to lay legal claim to their lands. That was Canada's strategy. And those are crimes against humanity. We must address it properly.
Posted by: saga | 17-Mar-08 6:08:41 PM
Genocide my Aunt Fanny.
Why are there any Indians left if our intent was genocide?
What happened, did we run out of bullets?
Taken from your point of view, saga, white people love Indians so much that our government and churches have to sneak around to commit genocide?
Why didn't we just starve them all to death?
It isn't as if they could feed themselves.
If our intent was genocide we could have had one huge potlatch in the wilderness in the middle of winter, got them all drunk, stripped them naked and left them to freeze in the dark.
We could have paid half of the Indians to kill the other half, divided the survivors in half again, rinse, repeat, until there were no Indians left.
Really why are there any Indians left if genocide was/is our intent instead of paying $12+ Billion per year for ungrateful snots like you, saga?
Rather than genocide, Indians are the fastest growing demographic group in the country!
Posted by: Speller | 17-Mar-08 6:38:42 PM
One of the main problems with this and other native issues is there are too many natives and native leaders with too much time on their hands. I'll admit that this too is "our" fault for discriminating in the workforce. It's all about who takes the first step.
Did you ever wonder why the Vietnamese seem to have a forgive and forget attitude? It's because they're busy doing other things. They have no time to feel sorry for themselves. Industrious people seem to spend more time looking forward than back. Look at Israel. They certainly make a point to remember the holocost, but they don't let it consume their lives.
If I was asked to consult on native issues, I'd find a way to keep people busy. Idle hands, and all that. And it would probably cost less than all the social programs we have in place now. Hobbema used to have a big sports program. Now they have gangs, and drive by shootings. Instead of giving cash to teenagers they need to give them opportunities.
I heard a racist joke last week that really tells it like it is on some Alberta reserves. "Which general killed the most Indians?" Answer: "General Motors". The practise of giving $50000 to kids at age 18 really has led to a huge number of highway fatalities.
Posted by: dp | 17-Mar-08 6:42:41 PM
>"I'll admit that this too is "our" fault for discriminating in the workforce. It's all about who takes the first step."
dp | 17-Mar-08 6:42:41 PM
If it's discrimination to expect Indians to actually show up for work every work day AND on time plus do a job of work then, yeah, it's "our" fault.
Posted by: Speller | 17-Mar-08 6:51:56 PM
Speller
We didn't starve or murder them all because most of aren't capable of such behaviour. The average white settler wanted to just get along with them, and to this day most white people would like to see better relations. I'm sure that your comments are not a 100% accurate indicator of your true feelings.
Genocide is something that governments do not citizens. And they do it to satisfy big business not citizens. I think sagas numbers are inflated, but I also think there's truth to her accusations regarding the intent of some of our "leaders".
Posted by: dp | 17-Mar-08 6:54:57 PM
Saga wrote: “It isn't history yet. There are people alive today who watched their siblings be tortured to death in the residential death schools, and the perpetrators are still alive too.”
Ah, but assuming that’s true, you’re not seeking justice just from these supposed perpetrators, are you? You seek restitution from the entire organization, the entire COUNTRY they worked for. And that, my friend, is punishing descendents for the acts of antecedents—to say nothing of just plain greedy.
Saga wrote: “There are over 50,000 children buries in unmarked mass graves all across Canada. Their families were never informed of their fate.”
Yes, and the corpses of three aliens are kept on ice in Roswell. Next please.
Saga wrote: “There must be a full investigation with International oversight.”
What’s in it for us?
Saga wrote: “It was genocide ... genocide for land to be specific. Kill as many as possible, disperse and traumatize all of them for 6 generations and hope that they never have the strength to lay legal claim to their lands. That was Canada's strategy. And those are crimes against humanity. We must address it properly.”
Do you have any proof of this, besides ONE opinion piece put out by this radical nutbar conspiracy group?
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 7:29:05 PM
oops- I read my last comment and I sounded like a commie for a moment there. Of course, genocide can be a tool of communist or fascist regimes.
Speller
I've worked with natives on some pretty hard projects. It's not that they don't work hard when they show up, it's just they have trouble sticking to it when they can get by without working. When I said it's "our" fault, I admit I was just pushing buttons.
I've made attempts over the years to hire natives, but always had reservations about investing too much effort in training. There's a lot of resentment in the oilpatch over having to use native run companies on northern projects. Some of the work is not up to acceptable standards, but it's not easy to remedy problems. No worse than dealing with unions I suppose.
Posted by: dp | 17-Mar-08 7:31:13 PM
Here are the facts about, indians, natives, aboriginals, or whatever they’re calling themselves these days: they refuse to work, they don’t believe in it, they just sit around collecting welfare and use that money to buy alcohol, they are exempt from paying tax, they are responsible for all all the crime in Canada, they deal drugs that kill white youth, they rape white women and they murder white people, they use the excuse of racism to justify these actions, they are the most vile disgusting creatures walking this planet, and as for this residential school nonsense aboriginals were given a free education but that still wasn’t good enough for them so they concoct this story about physical and sexual abuse to get even more money out of the federal government. There has never been any evidence of abuse in the residential school system. Those are the facts.
Posted by: Will Williamson | 17-Mar-08 9:18:21 PM
Here are the facts about, indians, natives, aboriginals, or whatever they’re calling themselves these days: they refuse to work, they don’t believe in it, they just sit around collecting welfare and use that money to buy alcohol, they are exempt from paying tax, they are responsible for all all the crime in Canada, they deal drugs that kill white youth, they rape white women and they murder white people, they use the excuse of racism to justify these actions, they are the most vile disgusting creatures walking this planet, and as for this residential school nonsense aboriginals were given a free education but that still wasn’t good enough for them so they concoct this story about physical and sexual abuse to get even more money out of the federal government. There has never been any evidence of abuse in the residential school system. Those are the facts.
Posted by: Will Williamson | 17-Mar-08 9:18:24 PM
Will, you don't have a clue. What a racist rant. Everyone knows what you just described is Jamaicans. How ignorant can you be?
Posted by: dp | 17-Mar-08 9:35:19 PM
dp,
They had Residential Schools in Jamaica?
Who knew?
Posted by: Speller | 17-Mar-08 10:30:22 PM
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=kHvODdvAkdE
Posted by: saga | 17-Mar-08 11:49:54 PM
UNREPENTANT: part 2
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=I2zEjI_nUcw
Posted by: saga | 20-Mar-08 1:37:17 AM
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