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Saturday, March 08, 2008
Celebrate International Women's Day #3
In this series of blogs, we are celebrating some "success stories" for women in honour of International Women's Day.
Shield the Guilty; Expose the Innocent:
The National Post reported on Tuesday that a Toronto woman fabriacted a rape story last weekend. She told police she had been abducted by two men at gunpoint, driven to an unknown location, and sexually assaulted. Police spend hours investigating, before her story fell apart.
Of course, the woman's identity was not revealed, and she was not charged with making a false report to the police. And of course, commentators, including Detective Candice Flis, immediately started making excuses for these leniencies.
"...for a victim to come forward in a sexual assault case is a difficult thing," Det. Flis says. No doubt; but in this case, the woman wasn't a "victim," she was a perpetrator of public mischief. Even if the law should shield complainants in sexual assault cases from public exposure, there is no justification for continuing to sheild women who make provably false allegations. Who knows what other false allegations she may have made -- what men she might have sent to prison -- or may make in the future? (Google Cathy Fordham for a particularly frightful case of a woman who caused several men misery -- and one, a 6-year jail term -- by making numerous false allegations, before she was eventually exposed.)
As the adage goes: "Anonymity promotes candor, but it also promotes slander." We would have fewer false allegations if those who made them risked being exposed and punished. Of course, apologists deny that false allegations are a serious problem. But that isn't true. In my own practice of family law, every allegation of sexual abuse of the children is automatically investigated. One Justice told me in open Court that at least 80% of these allegations come back as "unfounded." (As a matter of principle, they never come back with a finding of outright "false.") Other studies have shown that at least 25% of rape allegations are false. Has everyone forgotten about the Duke lacrosse team so soon?...
Basic fairness would suggest that if the complainant's identity should be protected in sexual assault cases, then so should that of the accused. After all, it is nearly impossible to shake off the stigma of being accused of sexual assault, even if one if found not guilty in the end. Not guilty merely means the accusation has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt; and a not-guilty verdict rarely attracts the same media attention as the initial allegations.
It is long past time we revisited the feminist rape-shield laws that protect false accusers and expose the falsely accused.
Posted by Grant Brown on March 8, 2008 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
That person who made those false and destructive allegations should be in jail!
Posted by: dewp | 8-Mar-08 6:06:19 PM
On principle I agree with you dewp.
But I read a study from a jurisdiction in the U.S. where the found that 50% of all rape accusations were false.
Then they found that when it came to innocent men being convicted of rape the only way that some would be exonerated and released was for the accuser, the "victim", to admit the accusation had been false.
Inevitably, they concluded that rather than charge these women it was better that they had come forward, admit their perjury, and that an innocent man be released than that they jail the women and create an added incentive to be silent and keep innocent men in jail.
It's a real catch 22.
Posted by: Speller | 8-Mar-08 6:19:43 PM
Speller: ARRRGGHH!
Posted by: dewp | 8-Mar-08 6:44:26 PM
----- Original Message -----
From: KAROL KAROLAK
To: Dads_In_Action@yahoogroups.com ; ....
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Gender Politics makes strange bedfellows: Holly Desimone (rape victim) gangs up with Claude McIntosh (raging homosexual) against Perry Dunlop (ex-police officer who uncovered homosexual pedophile ring in Cornwall Ontario),
http://fighttostopviolence.blogspot.com/2008/02/fact-is-perry-dunlop-wrote-his-own-go.html
Holly's Fight to Stop Violence
This blog is about bringing awareness in respect to the violence in our society. Personal stories, links and resources for those affected by the violence. As a society we need to stop the violence. Thank you for taking the time to read the posts. Take care, be safe!
----------------------------------------------
The fact is, Perry Dunlop wrote his own "Go to Jail" ticket.
Perry did this to himself Posted By McIntosh, Claude
The conspiracy theorists - and there's no shortage - are at it again, this time trumpeting the tall tale that Perry Dunlop has been thrown in the slammer by a corrupt justice system hellbent on punishing him because he blew the whistle on its friends.
The fact is, Perry Dunlop wrote his own "Go to Jail" ticket.
He's in jail because he chose to be, not because he exposed anything or anybody.
That "corrupt" system has bent over backward to accommodate him and keep him from facing a jail sentence for contempt of court.
All he had to do was testify at the Cornwall Public Inquiry.
The former Cornwall police officer has no problem with testifying. But he does have a big problem with being cross examined.
In his mind, the institutional lawyers are a bunch of merciless buggers chomping at the bit, ready to pounce on him and tear him apart.
No question he would face some tough questioning (not grilling), but the kindly Comm. Normand Glaude has kept a tight leash on cross examination.
One of the big questions put to Dunlop might be why he bought into Ron Leroux's lies about a pedophile clan made up of prominent Cornwall and area citizens preying on young boys and using them as sex toys at wild orgies.
That hoax became the cornerstone of Dunlop's private investigation and ramped up the rumour mill.
He was duped, as were so many others.
Leroux testified that he was under pressure to give Dunlop and Co. a juicy story . . . so he made up a real dandy.
Ironically, Dunlop is credited as the driving force behind the inquiry that will probably end up costing taxpayers $40 million for a report that won't have much, if any, impact. It could become Ontario's most expensive doorstopper.
When Dunlop didn't like the path the inquiry was taking, he got up on his soap box and decreed it to be a sham and that the world was (again) out to get its only honest cop.
Many victims disagree with his decision not to testify and once again turn himself into a cause celebre.
In fact, some are very critical of his position.
Once again, the victims have been shuffled to the background as Dunlop takes centre stage.
The national media - in fact the media outside Cornwall for the most part - have ignored the inquiry.
Bingo. Perry Dunlop steps up to the plate and it becomes a national story . . . not the inquiry, but him.
Victims are getting shortchanged.
And that seems to be the way he likes it. This is, afterall, somebody who once used the services of a Toronto public relations consultant to cultivate his image. He was a good student. Just look at the arrest at his British Columbia home.
He was invited by the RCMP to turn himself quietly over to the nearby detachment. He would then be given a plane ticket to Toronto for his court appearance. Nope.
That wouldn't get much attention.
Instead, he forced the RCMP to come and get him.
And, he just happened to have about 75 friends over to the house that day. And they just happened to have signs that said things like "Pedophiles Go Free, Whistleblowers Like Perry Go To Jail" and "We Support Perry".
It was made-for-TV and news cameras. Canada's only honest cop being taken out of the arms of his family and whisked off to the local detachment in the backseat of a cruiser.
It just doesn't get any better (for the media). Of course, somebody made sure that the media were aware of the place and time of the arrest. Wouldn't want them showing up when it was over.
Nobody is clapping with glee over Perry Dunlop being tossed into the slammer for a couple of weeks.
It's hard on him, his family and friends. But he could have avoided it coming to this by testifying at the inquiry.
It would be hard on him?
Might have been, but certainly no harder than what some of the victims went through on the same witness stand. He owes it to them.
Like a seasoned army colonel told his untested battalion before the first big battle in the Vietnam War, "I'm not going to ask you to do anything that I'm not prepared to do."
Perry, you have failed all the courgeous victims who have appeared before the inquiry.
--------------------------------------------------
Holly,
Are you sure you want to go down this path?? Claude McIntosh is associated with gay community and he is much more concerned with discrimination against gays than protection of children from homosexual pedophiles. Homosexuals represent only 2% of male population and they are responsible for over one third of all sexual assaults on children (35% of all reported sexual assaults are on young boys).
Read on what concerns Claude McIntosh the most below:
Xtra.ca is published by Pink Triangle Press, a not-for-profit organization born out of and committed to the struggle of lesbians and gay men for sexual liberation and human fulfillment.
http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=2&STORY_ID=3771&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=2
Gays face fallout after Cornwall paedophile witchhunt
OPINION / Lives ruined and gay community vilified
Claude McIntosh / Capital Xtra / Friday, October 19, 2007
Posted by: Karol Karolak | 8-Mar-08 7:45:50 PM
Again double standards in action. The fact is that once a man has been accused, even when he is proven innocent, his reputation along with much more has been ruined. That women fabricating rape remain unpunished is a mockery of justice.
Of course no one condones rape or child molestation but how many innocent men's lives and livelihood have been ruined by false claims while the woman remains free without blemish. There is no justification for such a mockery of the so-called justice system.
Posted by: Alain | 8-Mar-08 8:40:53 PM
Speller notes that if women are charged for admitting to making false accusations, then they won't confess and innocent men might go to or stay in jail. True enough -- if a confession comes in the absence of any other proof of innocence, it should be given immunity from prosecution as the lesser of evils. But so often, the allegations are proven false without a confession, and there is no justification for not prosecuting in those cases. Even that limited level of prosecution will give false accusers pause.
Posted by: Grant Brown | 8-Mar-08 11:05:35 PM
Grant Brown,
Most rape charges are based on 2 things, proof of sexual contact and the woman's claim that the sexual contact or a stage of the sexual contact, was not consensual.
In absence of proof to the contrary, and rape is one of the criminal charges where the burden of that proof to the contrary rests with the accused man, the man will be convicted in most cases.
Posted by: Speller | 8-Mar-08 11:20:35 PM
FOR KAROL KAROLUK and THE SUPPORTERS OF PERRY DUNLOP. YOU POSTED THIS EMAIL.
QUESTION for all of you?...
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS POST?...
Are you sure you want to go down this path??
----- Original Message -----
From: KAROL KAROLAK
To: Dads_In_Action@yahoogroups.com ; ....
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Gender Politics makes strange bedfellows: Holly Desimone (rape victim) gangs up with Claude McIntosh (raging homosexual) against Perry Dunlop (ex-police officer who uncovered homosexual pedophile ring in Cornwall Ontario),
http://fighttostopviolence.blogspot.com/2008/02/fact-is-perry-dunlop-wrote-his-own-go.html
Holly's Fight to Stop Violence
This blog is about bringing awareness in respect to the violence in our society. Personal stories, links and resources for those affected by the violence. As a society we need to stop the violence. Thank you for taking the time to read the posts. Take care, be safe!
Holly,
Are you sure you want to go down this path?? Claude McIntosh is associated with gay community and he is much more concerned with discrimination against gays than protection of children from homosexual pedophiles. Homosexuals represent only 2% of male population and they are responsible for over one third of all sexual assaults on children (35% of all reported sexual assaults are on young boys).
MR.KAROL KAROLAK,
YOUR DISCRIMINATION IS DISGUISTING IN MY OPINION.
MY SITE FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN KNOWING HAS A NON DISCRIMINATION POLICY...
I DO NOT AGREE WITH PERRY DUNLOP NOT TAKING THE STAND AT THE CORNWALL PUBLIC INQUIRY. Thank you
Posted by: Holly Desimone | 10-Mar-08 1:14:49 PM
Speller's last comment is both a non sequitur and erroneous. There is no "reverse onus" on the accused to prove innocence in sexual assault cases, at least not in law. The application of the law might sometimes leave that impression, but the onus is always on the Crown to prove every element of an offence beyond a reasonable doubt. (one of the prejudices men face in Court is that a woman's testimony is more likely to be believed, all other things being equal -- especially in sexual assault cases, because we are told to believe that "a woman would never lie about that.") Circumstantial evidence can raise a reasonable doubt about a woman's claim that consent was absent. In a recent case in Cambridge, England, for example, a student was acquitted of sexual assault because other witnesses in the dorm testified that the woman had twice left and entered the accused's room, and they heard no calls for help despite the doors being left ajar. The judge in this case advised the jury that women make false allegations of sexual assault for various reasons, and admonished the Crown for even bringing the case to trial. (Read about it here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=528568&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&ct=5&expand=true#StartComments)
Read about another unfounded allegation here: http://news.aol.com/entertainment/television/tv-news-story/ar/_a/nypd-blue-star-cleared-of-rape-claim/20080307151809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
Posted by: Grant Brown | 10-Mar-08 11:59:51 PM
>" student was acquitted of sexual assault because other witnesses in the dorm testified that the woman had twice left and entered the accused's room,"
Grant Brown | 10-Mar-08 11:59:51 PM
Yes, well Grant Brown eyewitness exculpatory evidence such as that is unavailable in most rape cases.
Most rape cases are He-said-She-said affairs where a women only has to make the accusation and prove sexual contact.
In absence of exculpatory evidence the man is usually convicted.
Posted by: Speller | 11-Mar-08 12:58:31 AM
>"Speller's last comment is both a non sequitur and erroneous."
Grant Brown | 10-Mar-08 11:59:51 PM
Your inability, Mr. Brown, to follow my reasoning doesn't make my comment a non sequitur.
You make the empty assertion above that, "so often, the allegations are proven false without a confession,".
Grant Brown | 8-Mar-08 11:05:35 PM
I disagree.
Now where does that leave you?
How often is "so often"?
Do you have ANY data on that at all?
>"Even that limited level of prosecution will give false accusers pause."
Again, I disagree, and here is why.
"False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations."
FROM>
http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFalse.html
Did you see the money quote?
" False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations."
That is, these false accusations come from an emotional state that cannot be deterred by the threat of charges.
However for the purposes of this study linked above it states, "Last, the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation."
So while not a deterence before the accusation, it was the policy of at least this American city's police to press charges against the false accuser.
If charging a woman for a false accusation were to be a deterrent before a women made an accusation, surely it would be a deterrent to recanting.
The study that I was citing at 8-Mar-08 6:19:43 PM
above named the city and expressed the need to not prosecute women who had recanted.
I read the study some time ago and have been unable to locate it, as is true with many other studies I used to have in my archives before my Maxtor hard drive died last September.
Posted by: Speller | 11-Mar-08 2:04:36 AM
Here is an interesting report.
"To my considerable chagrin, we found that at least 60 percent of all the rape allegations were false."
- Dr. Charles P. McDowell, Supervisory Special Agent, U.S. Air Force, Office of Special Investigations
http://christianparty.net/mcdowell.htm
Posted by: Speller | 11-Mar-08 2:19:11 AM
DEAR HOLLY DESIMONE,
CLIFF OLSON, PAUL BERNARDO, AND ROBERT PICTON ARE GLAD TO KNOW THAT YOUR WEBSITE HAS A NON DISCRIMINATION POLICY. THEY INTENT TO POST THEIR TOUGHTS ON YOUR WEBSITE AS SOON AS THEY ARE PERMITTED BY CANADIAN PRISON AUTORITIES.
In a meantime, why don’t you invite sexual predator Clark Winston Noble to post on your website?
Homosexual rights activist John A. Harnick seems to admire Mr. Noble’s connections and good fortunes, please read it for yourself, fifth post down at this link:
http://aboynamedsue.wordpress.com/2006/10/
In case you want to know more about Mr. Noble’s accomplishments please read last post on this tread: http://forthesakeofthechildren.blog-city.com/sexual_predator_at_private_schools_pardoned.htm
You Holly seem to be as confused as John A. Harnick is. In one post Mr. Harnick admires self proclaimed pedophile Noble and in the other post he places “homophobes” in the same category as spousal abusers and child predators, please read it for yourself at this link: http://aboynamedsue.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/homophobia-is-a-continuing-blemish-on-the-body-social-of-ontario-and-canada/
Posted by: Karol Karolak | 11-Mar-08 8:50:31 AM
Speller's comments on this subject continue to perplex.
I began by suggesting that the woman in Etobicoke who made the false police report of rape should have been charged. Speller replied by saying that if women who make false allegations are charged, then they have a disincentive to recant: "It's a real catch-22." I replied by pointing out that in cases such as this one, where the falsity of the claim does not depend upon recanting, the policy should be to charge women for making a false report because that would serve as a deterent. I said that "so often," the falsity of the claim of rape is proven without a recantation.
Now Speller asks for data to support my statement that "so often, allegations are proven false without a confession." Yet he provides the numbers himself, at various times citing studies that puport to show that 41% or 50% or even 60% of allegations are false. If these numbers are to be believed, recanting obviously isn't the ONLY, or even the most important, way we find out that allegations of rape are false.
Speller is simply mistaken to assert that a woman's testimony is always believed over a man's in rape trials, in the absence of exculpatory evidence. I'd like to know what data he has to support this assertion.
Speller asserts that charging women who make false reports is not a deterent because women make false allegations out of some kind of compulsion that precludes rational calculations of self-interest. That is a bold claim to make -- which seems to be refuted by his contention that revenge and alibi-creation are common motives for making a false report. Few things are as calculated as revenge and creating an alibi.
I stand by my initial statement. A policy of charging false accusers who don't recant on their own initiative has a deterent effect both before the allegation is made and after it is made. Women motivated by revenge or alibi-creation will think twice before following through with their allegations; and even women who make an allegation out of blind fury will have an incentive to recant voluntarily before their story unravels and they are charged for making a false report. The policy I propose will have no effect, one way or the other, in the pure he-said, she-said cases that so vex Speller.
Finally, I apologize to Speller that my feeble, Oxford-educated reasoning abilities are inadequate to make the leaps of logic he has mastered and demonstrates in this discussion. I must confess that I can't see the connection Karol Karolak's comments have to the initial blog, either.
Posted by: Grant Brown | 11-Mar-08 12:20:38 PM
Dear Grant,
Your Oxford-educated reasoning abilities blided you to some obvious observations that you could have made by now reading my post and response to it from Ms. Desimone. All you had to do to make connections was Google Ms. Desimone's name.
Here is link:
http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/1998/04/remarkable_01.html?printer_version=1
Posted by: Karol Karolak | 12-Mar-08 9:41:33 AM
Women will never be accepted as equals as long as they demand special treatment.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 12-Mar-08 9:53:55 AM
Grant here is something for you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7285342.stm
Domestic abuse convictions 'rise'
Dedicated domestic abuse courts support victims at every stage.
Dedicated courts that prosecute domestic violence cases in England and Wales have an average success rate of almost 70%, figures show.
Home Office statistics released to mark International Women's Day show that the 23 courts, first set up in 2004, have dramatically improved conviction rates.
The courts offer a range of supports, including separate entrances, exits and waiting areas for victims.
The courts are also to be backed by an extra £1m for victim support schemes.
Victim support
Announcing funding, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said in a statement: "Improving the support available to the courageous victims of these devastating crimes is crucial in encouraging people to come forward."
The courts use specially-trained police, prosecutors, court staff and probation officers to offer victims help as the case makes its way through the justice system.
Cases are fast-tracked through the courts to minimise stress.
Justice Minister Bridget Prentice said these measures help to convince victims that reporting the violence to police will help them escape their abusers.
"Their success shows that where victims of domestic violence have confidence in the criminal justice system to report these crimes, the system will help them," Ms Prentice said.
Ms Smith also said that the 20 existing Sexual Assault Referral Centres - where victims can receive medical care and counselling and undergo a forensic examination - can also apply for £15,000 in extra funding.
Their success shows that where victims of domestic violence have confidence in the criminal justice system to report these crimes, the system will help them
Justice Minister Bridget Prentice
Sir Ken Macdonald, director of public prosecutions, said the specialist courts led to a 23% improvement in prosecution rates since they were created.
"This is a dramatic improvement when compared with only 46% of cases being prosecuted successfully in December 2003."
The statistics, which cover the period from October 2006 to March 2007, show that 10 courts had conviction rates of more than 70%, one court's rate was more than 80% and the other 12 courts averaged 66%.
The government has also vowed to implement a provision in the 2004 Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act that forces police, councils and other local agencies to review each domestic homicide case.
The reviews are meant to learn from mistakes and prevent future deaths.
Posted by: Karol Karolak | 12-Mar-08 3:31:21 PM
Karol Karolak,
The Non Discrimination Policy at centers around the country was put in place to assist those who have been sexually violated. It is obvious you do not understand the trauma related to sexual violence. Naming serial killers who are in prison for crimes against children and women, does not answer my question to you? Which was "WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS POST?...
Are you sure you want to go down this path??"
As for the rest of your post once again you have missed the mark....Maybe Karol you should consider seeking out medical and professional assistance for your problems. Instead of posting on websites across the country.
P.S. just Google Karol Karoluk name. In my opinion he should consider seeking out medical treatment.
Reader's Digest article Grant, I did go public in Canada. Few of us take the step of speaking out and being named.
I did it to see a serial rapist brought to justice. Face me in a courtroom.
Ali Rasai had entered Canada illegally, then fled, missing for over six years, found in the Netherlands and was returned to Canada for the trial. Eventually convicted of raping three women in Alberta.
Posted by: Holly Desimone | 13-Mar-08 8:41:03 AM
Dear Holly Desimone, thank you for your “thoughtful” advice about seeking medical treatment.
Your grip on Canadian reality seems to be very precarious to say the least, and that being the case I am not about to entertain your offer.
How precarious is your grip??? You wrote quote, “The Non Discrimination Policy at centers around the country was put in place to assist those who have been sexually violated.”
How does that "Non Discrimination Policy" works in practice???
http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/issues/knixonglobe.html
Fighting to do a woman's work
by Stephanie Nolen, Globe and Mail
December 9, 2000
Stephanie Nolen reports on fierce debate sparked by rape crisis centre's rejection of woman who was born a man
Kimberly Nixon was 37 and unemployed when she saw an ad for volunteers at a crisis centre called Vancouver Rape Relief in 1995.
Ms. Nixon was herself a survivor of an abusive relationship, and had once sought safety at a crisis centre. She thought it would make her feel stronger, helping other women trapped as she once had been.
Halfway through the initial orientation for volunteers, a Rape Relief co-ordinator took Ms. Nixon aside and asked if she was a woman. Ms. Nixon said yes.
In her mind, she always had been. But she knew what the co-ordinator was really asking, so she volunteered the information that she had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, but fully treated. in other words, she was born in a male body, but had had sex-reassignment surgery and was now fully, medically and legally, a woman.
The Rape Relief worker told Ms. Nixon she would have to leave: that only women who were born women could work there. The next day, Ms. Nixon filed a complaint with the British Columbia Human Rights Commission.
"It was humiliating," Ms. Nixon, who had then been living as a woman for 14 years, told reporters. "I've been who I am since I was born. I am a woman. I was just born wrong."
In June, a B.C. Supreme Court judge rejected an attempt by Rape Relief to have the case thrown out. The centre argued that the province's human-rights legislation did not extend protection to gender identity.
Mr. Justice Barry Davies said the case could proceed and provided some of the first codification of the rights of transgendered people. He said the laws covering, discrimination on the basis of sex do not exclude people "merely because that person or group is not readily identifiable as being either male or female." On Monday, Ms. Nixon's complaint will finally be heard by the tribunal.
The issue has caused fierce debate over who, exactly, is a woman. Long-time activist Judy Rebick will testify for the rape centre. An Internet list-serve run by the National Action Committee on the Status of Women became the site of a feud between the two camps. Feminist journals and groups chose sides.
"In a world that insists there are only two genders, who decides who is which?" asks Ms. Nixon's lawyer, barbara finlay.
Ms. finlay and many of the country's rape-crisis centres -- says someone who has been living as a woman for 14 years, whose driver's licence says she is a woman, is one.
The women at Vancouver Rape Relief argue that Ms. Nixon was immediately identifiable as a transsexual, a former man, and might have made women seeking shelter from violent men uncomfortable; and that because she didn't grow up female, she could not empathize with victims of violence seeking counselling.
Suzanne Jay, spokeswoman for Rape Relief, one of the longest-running centres in Canada, said they have been been unfairly demonized by this complaint. They believe transgendered people are entitled to protection against discrimination , she said--but her centre also has the right to protect the womenonly status it has had since it won a hiring exemption from the provincial government in 1973.
"We do not agree that every person that honestly claims to be a woman or to wish to be a woman is one," the centre explains on a Web site run by the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres. "We think that body parts, human history, growing-up experiences, social shaping all matter."
MS. finlay counters that her client's ability to offer empathetic counselling should have been tested, not assumed because of the body in which she grew up: "The point of a human-rights complaint is that people have the right to be assessed on merit rather than on irrelevant physical characteristics."
Ms. Jay noted that the centre tried several times to resolve the situation through mediation -- offering Ms. Nixon an opportunity to volunteer with a fundraising committee, which involves both men and women -- and offering an apology and financial compensation for "pain and embarrassment."
In the end, Rape Relief opted to fight the complaint at a tribunal, on the grounds that three other women-only spaces in Vancouver had recently, in their view, lost that status after male-to-female transsexuals had gone to work or volunteer there.
Rape Relief still has no policy on transgendered people. "What we have is a belief that women born women have the right to organize together about violence," Ms. Jay said. And the right to exclude people as they see fit? "I guess so, yes. ... What we use in our work is our past experience as women and all the threats of violence we experienced growing up as girls. Ms. Nixon doesn't share that particular experience."
Ms. Rebick has shocked many feminists by agreeing to provide expert-witness testimony for the rape crisis centre, the prevailing view these days being that transgendered women are to be welcomed in the women's movement in much the same way lesbians were 25 years ago.
Ms. Rebick declined to comment on her participation. "I'm not doing media on this," she said. "I'm going to do my testimony and that's it I'm testifying on how women-only groups developed and why they're still needed."
NAC, an umbrella group of 700 women's groups, officially has no position on this case and would not comment.
Rape Relief's stand on transgendered women puts it in sharp contrast to most other crisis centres in Canada. Marilyn McLean, program director of the Toronto Rape Crisis Centre, noted that transgendered women are disproportionately represented among street people and prostitutes, and are a high-risk group for sexual violence.
Geraldine Glattstein, executive director of WAVAW Rape Crisis Centre in Vancouver, and a former staffer of Rape Relief, said Ms; Nixon would have been welcome to volunteer at her centre.
"All our work is anti-oppression. work, so why wouldn't we find the oppression of women who feel they are trapped in the wrong body equally important" she. said. "If they feel they are women, they are. It's not a transvestite, a man in women's clothes -- it's a woman."
Ms. McLean said she understands Rape Relief' s concern about a transgendered woman's ability to counsel rape victims. "The way someone is socialized, whether that's against their will or not, affects their understanding of rape and sexual violence," she said. "But do I believe that means you can't be a counsellor? No." Her centre considers the transgendered community among those they serve: "Anybody who's living life as a woman is vulnerable to violence."
Eleanor MacDonald, who teaches identity politics at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont., said that to assume a transgendered woman has been socialized in a way that precludes her from empathizing with women is highly suspect. "We are all socialized differently, and the assumption that all women are socialized the same is false," she said. "People who are socialized trans -- that is, grow up constantly aware they are in the wrong body - -are more like people with multiple sets of discrimination."
The whole argument baffles her. "Why does society, including feminists, have such difficulty recognizing that she has a legitimate claim to identifying herself as a woman, and has a legitimate place to work with other women on improving women's lives?"
Posted by: Karol Karolak | 13-Mar-08 9:59:18 AM
Karol Karolak,
Still no answer to the real question you posted at this site....
Holly,
Are you sure you want to go down this path??....
In respect to the Kimberly Nixon Case. Links below with updates.
Kimberly Nixon has been compensated for the case.
http://dawn.thot.net/nixon_v_vrr.html#bk
Posted by: Holly Desimone | 13-Mar-08 10:38:22 AM
Holly Desimone,
Kimberly Nixon Case was about transsexual, who applied for a job at Rape Crisis centre and was rejected for being born as a man. Rationale being that Rape Centre is women only organisation catering to women victims of rape.
My question to you is; where do boys and men go after they are sodomised??? Do you know??
BTW most Rape Crisis Centers and Women shelters are run by lesbians looking for new partners. These lesbians hate all men, victims and perpetrators.
Should we set up specialised Men Rape Centers and staff them with homosexuals?? Just asking.
Posted by: Karol Karolak | 13-Mar-08 4:07:23 PM
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