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Sunday, March 16, 2008
Bjork hurts the feelings of the Chinese
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China will tighten its controls over foreign singers and other performers after Icelandic singer Bjork shouted "Tibet! Tibet!" at a Shanghai concert last weekend, the Ministry of Culture said on Friday.
...
The performance "not only broke Chinese laws and regulations and hurt the feelings of Chinese people, but also went against the professional code of an artist," the ministry said in a statement quoted by the official Xinhua news agency.
Poor Bjork. But at least the Chinese Minister of Culture seems capable of distinguishing between breaking the law and hurting peoples' feelings. If only Richard Warman and Lori Andreachuk were able to make that distinction.
Posted by Terrence Watson on March 16, 2008 | Permalink
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Comments
While it's hard not to sympathize with the Tibetans, and Bjork is certainly entitled to her opinion, her outburst was unprofessional and ill-advised. The Chinese official's criticisms were therefore correct, except for the bit about "hurting the feelings" of the Chinese people. Opinion in China concerning Tibet spans the gamut, is it does about every other subject. Are only those who wish to retain control of Tibet considered "real" Chinese?
If the events of the last eight years have taught us anything, it is that professional entertainers should get over themselves. Their opinions on a given subject are no more competent than anyone else's. In fact, since they are professional emoters, their opinions are even more likely to be based on uninformed emotion than the average person--and people of sense, realizing this, should attach that much less weight to those opinions.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 11:20:08 AM
"Vive le Quebec libre"
Pearson had that asshole de Gaulle on a plane before sundown.
Speaking of entertainers, de Gaulle was only propped up because he was tall. He was also one of a very few Frenchmen who wasn't a collaborator. He could probably sing a lot better than bjork too.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 11:27:51 AM
I recently had a hard time watching a documentary on how the Chinese serve cats and dogs in their eateries. They dip A live cat in some kind of chemical to remove it's fur prior to cooking it. It was most disgusting and cruel.
There is also a horrid trade in furs using cats as well.
THAT HURTS MY FEELINGS BEYOND BELIEF.
The Chinese are sending all sorts of contaminate goods to North America that are killing pets and people ...
THAT HURTS MY FEELINGS BEYOND BELIEF.
The Chinese are opening one coal fired power plane ever few days in China that will spew poison into the biosphere for decades. So that they can continue to make poisonous shoddy bobbles to sell us.
THAT HURTS MY FEELINGS BEYOND BELIEF.
Do I need to go on?
Someone should tell the Chinese to grow up. Hurt feelings indeed.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 11:32:18 AM
Those things hurt my feelings too John. That's why I check the label. I also make sure my kids keep their cat away from my girlfriend, just in case.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 11:42:27 AM
Bjork is so big and scary! Those poor Chinese!
Posted by: philanthropist | 16-Mar-08 12:21:03 PM
I recently had a hard time watching a documentary on how the Chinese serve cats and dogs in their eateries. They dip A live cat in some kind of chemical to remove it's fur prior to cooking it. It was most disgusting and cruel.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 11:32:18 AM
The Chinese may have some odd / disgusting eating habits, but I would wager even they have figured out that you have to gut an animal before you can eat it. All that crap in the intestines usually doesn't really help with the palpability of the meat.
Posted by: Snowrunner | 16-Mar-08 1:10:03 PM
Plenty of cultures cook animals with the entrails still in place. They think it enhances the flavour. From a practical standpoint, it also traps more vitamins and minerals. Clans that ate the guts stayed healthier, and were able to survive in temperate climates.
Before anyone calls the Chinese diet disgusting, have a look at what the average Englishman eats. Or worse, what they ate a couple centuries ago.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 1:18:49 PM
Snow,
Like most liberalis you need everything spelled out to nth degree.
Of course after they defur it the would likely remove the bowels. Even the Chinese may not have a taste for cat shit, but then who knows for sure?
However, they didn't humanely kill the poor creatures before dipping them while still alive into a tub of some sort of horrid chemical that literally dissolved the fur within moments.
The cat's head is held is a forked stick so it cannot get away. It is dangling by it's neck.
When it comes up from the chemical, it is still alive but in a daze and not able to move much. Int the throws of death before the gutting and eating.
You seem to sympathetic to this atrocity. But them there is nothing anyone can say on this blog that you would agree with unless it was from one or your commie friends.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 1:21:52 PM
John
I agree with you about the need for more humane treatment of "food". It seems that once we identify any creature as food, we totally forget that these are creatures that deserve some dignity.
What really bothers you and me is that we don't identify cats as food. We have a lot less trouble watching an Elk choke on its own blood because we aren't emotionally attached to it. I'd like to see a lot more attention paid to the way we "prepare" our food. It's the one place even the most conservative person wouldn't mind seeing more government intervention.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 1:41:10 PM
Chinese laws and regulations suck! They hurt the feelings of many Chinese.
Posted by: dewp | 16-Mar-08 1:45:17 PM
The Chinese may live to regret hosting the 08 olympics. If they thought this was going to be some kind of showcase for modern China, they misjudged badly. Thousands and thousands of young, idealistic athletes with a big voice in their home countries is a little more revealing than a couple of smuggled videos.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 2:06:15 PM
Like most liberalis you need everything spelled out to nth degree.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 1:21:52 PM
Could you guys please make up your mind? What am I? A Nazi (as dp told me over on the other threat), a Commie, a Liberal or whatever else helps your virtual that very moment?
Seriously, you need to get your playbook straight, otherwise I can't take your attempts at insulting me personal.
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However, they didn't humanely kill the poor creatures before dipping them while still alive into a tub of some sort of horrid chemical that literally dissolved the fur within moments.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 1:21:52 PM
Have you seen how Western "food processing" works? There are ample examples (by such hated groups as PETA or "animal rights" groups) that have shown this. A guy I worked with worked in a slaughterhouse in Ontario for a summer while he was a student, he said after that he was done eating meat for three years.
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The cat's head is held is a forked stick so it cannot get away. It is dangling by it's neck.
When it comes up from the chemical, it is still alive but in a daze and not able to move much. Int the throws of death before the gutting and eating.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 1:21:52 PM
Yeah, animal cruelty happens. Is this so upsetting to you because you are a cat person or because it's the Chinese who are doing this? If the first, you'd be fine if it would be a chicken, cow or pig?
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You seem to sympathetic to this atrocity. But them there is nothing anyone can say on this blog that you would agree with unless it was from one or your commie friends.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 1:21:52 PM
Where do you deduct that I am "sympathetic to this atrocitiy"? Did I say this? Did you "infer this from my posting"? Or did you just pull this out of a dark place where the sun doesn 't shine?
Oh, now I know. Because I didn't nod my head in agreement with you and wrote "Those damn Chinese, they are monsters, we should do something!!111111111".
I am always for cleaning house first, and there is enough like this happening our slaughterhouses to take offense with, but I guess that's not as "cool" as bashing another country while all your pals here cheer you on. You're the Man John West, and don't let anybody else tell you otherwise.
Just be careful not to trip or pull a muscle, if you carry your nose that high you may not see where you step.
Posted by: Snowrunner | 16-Mar-08 2:47:10 PM
Snow,
If you think I am okay with the way things are done in the abattoirs of Canada, guess again. I am 100% in favor of respectful treatment of all animals. It is sad that we are still carnivorous, but I am not going to tell what it is that people should eat.
I do support PETA as radical as they are because they are the only group that is truly serious about animal welfare. I don't go as far as they do in their philosophy that would deny me a pair of leather shoes, but I do think there are humane ways getting those shoes off the cow onto the feet of humans.
Regarding whether you are a Nazi, a Commie or whatever else, you have demonstrated by your past comments that you might be comfortable in any of those roles.
How do you define yourself in twenty five words or less?
I am define myself as a decent human being with Objectivist political views. And I am a cat person. I also love dogs and horses and frogs and pretty much all creatures. I am not crazy about ants and cockroaches though ... I will admit to have killing a few of those.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 3:06:24 PM
If you think I am okay with the way things are done in the abattoirs of Canada, guess again. I am 100% in favor of respectful treatment of all animals. It is sad that we are still carnivorous, but I am not going to tell what it is that people should eat.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 3:06:24 PM
That's fine, I don't have a problem with you pointing these things out, but you did not point it out in the context of animal rights but in the context of trying to paing a negative picture about China. Which is fine too, if we wouldn't do the same shit on a similar scale.
--------------
I do support PETA as radical as they are because they are the only group that is truly serious about animal welfare. I don't go as far as they do in their philosophy that would deny me a pair of leather shoes, but I do think there are humane ways getting those shoes off the cow onto the feet of humans.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 3:06:24 PM
As much as I think groups like PETA do serve a purpose they are uttelry hypocritical. Have a look at the PETA episode from Penn & Teller for a summary, though obviously this isn't the whole story.
And yes, we have raised and slaughtered animals for thousands of years and there are "humane" ways of doing it, the inhumanity in the system comes from the fact that we mostly have taken humans out of it and consider it a "food machine". But PETA with their extreme viewpoints won't win the masses over either. Remember their Holocaust Campaign?
http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1430_A_1146851_1_A,00.html
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Regarding whether you are a Nazi, a Commie or whatever else, you have demonstrated by your past comments that you might be comfortable in any of those roles.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 3:06:24 PM
Why? Because I can argue against pretty much any position from the other side? I do not believe you can have a well informed opinioin if all you know is your side but not the other side as well. I can argue as well for as against my positions / believe because thse opinions and believes usually arise out of an extensive dialoge and examination of both sides of the argument.
-------------------
How do you define yourself in twenty five words or less?
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 3:06:24 PM
Human.
---------------
I am define myself as a decent human being with Objectivist political views. And I am a cat person. I also love dogs and horses and frogs and pretty much all creatures. I am not crazy about ants and cockroaches though ... I will admit to have killing a few of those.
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 3:06:24 PM
So with what intent did you post this piece of Chinese daily life? What was the purpose of this story?
Posted by: Snowrunner | 16-Mar-08 3:38:04 PM
Hey Bjork:
Shut up and sing.
Posted by: Bocanut | 16-Mar-08 4:53:25 PM
Snow,
Do actually have a life?
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 7:11:47 PM
DP, the guts have traditionally been removed in Western countries because they are the first part of the body to spoil, often within just a few hours. Since many Europeans hunted for their meat instead of farming it, and since quartering the animal made it easier to carry out of the wild, and since the guts of a butchered stag or hog can weigh as much as two of the quarters, it was easier to just leave them behind. Sometimes the "organ meats" such as the heart, liver, and kidneys were saved, sometimes not.
It's also worth noting that the entire digestive tract of ruminant animals such as deer and cattle are loaded with bacteria and that thorough cooking is extremely important to avoid food poisoning. In some European courts, such as that of Henry II of Anjou, food was of so little importance that courtiers were often served meat that had gone green. Etiquette compelled them to eat it. Some tried to mask the hideous taste by washing it down with large quantities of vinegary wine. (The fine wines for which the French are famous did not come about in the Middle Ages, but later.) Imagine what the guts would have been like by this point.
Of course, if the animal is slaughtered and butchered on the spot, as was the case in later European courts and today in China, it becomes more practical to keep the intestines. In Europe these were often flushed and stuffed with ground meat and seasoning to create sausages. Sometimes medieval chefs worked them into elaborate desserts and display dishes called subtleties. (Read Michael Crichton's "Timeline" for a very good depiction of this.)
Eating cooked guts is like eating puffer fish. It can be done, and can even be a delicacy, but there's far less room for error than in "gutless" dishes.
By the way. A properly lung-shot animal does not "choke on its own blood," at least not in the coughing, miserable, hitching way the term suggests. It's actually more akin to drowning, which is, according to those who have survived the initial stages, really not that unpleasant. I'll take that compared to being dipped in acid. I'm a hunter who has no problems dispatching animals, but when I order lobster I say firmly to the chef, "I don't care what the cookbook says. Kill it first."
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 8:51:45 PM
John, there is no 100% surefire pain-free instantaneous method of offing a cow that would be even remotely practical AND still leave enough bovine to actually yield useful products. A .50 Browning to the brain would do it but would be messy and incredibly loud. A bovine version of the guillotine would also be efficient, but even messier than the Browning. Nitrogen asphyxiation would be painless (though not instantaneous), but would require enormous expense and create a safety hazard for the workers.
It's all very well to wring your hands over what you consider unnecessary cruelty. But unless you also have solutions to offer (and I don't recall reading any), it would be prudent for you to shelve the radical talk--particularly since you would rather allow the "suffering" to go on than do without the product.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 9:07:37 PM
P.S. Tell me again how we got from Bjork to animal intestines?
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 16-Mar-08 9:10:50 PM
Free Tibet. Free Tibet. Free Tibet.
Why should anyone care about Chinese feelings especially when the Chinese are conducting biological and chemical warfare against Western countries with their tainted exports. FDA inspectors report tainted food imports from China are being rejected with increasing frequency because they are filthy, are contaminated with pesticides and tainted with carcinogens, bacteria and banned drugs. The Chinese are also exporting virus infected hard drives and other products to the West. To the Chinese the West is nothing more than a giant frog patiently waiting to be boiled to death. (The boiling frog story states that a frog can be boiled alive if the water is heated slowly enough — it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.) It won't be long before everyone shuns the Chinese. Free Tibet.
Posted by: Death by a Thousand Cuts | 16-Mar-08 9:36:32 PM
Shane
I'm not sure how we got off into gut cookery, but your post pretty well put it to rest.
My Uncle had a small slaughterhouse when I was a youngster. It was a bit troubling to see how efficiently he turned cattle into hanging meat. He always used a sledgehammer to save money(he was a Scotchman). He only used a .22 for pigs. The method hasn't changed much over the years. I think they use an air hammer now.
I don't know of a more humane way to kill the number of animals it takes to feed the masses. I'm sure we could come up with something but it woudn't be cheap. Suppose that Safeway had one display of humanely killed beef at 20% higher price than it's other display of beef that was dispatched with less compassion. How many people would put their money where their mouths are?
By the way, what do they eat in Tibet? My girlfriend tells me that the Monks are notorious for grabbing peoples pets, and cooking them on the spot. I guess when you aren't allowed meat it becomes as desirable as any other forbidden fruit.
Posted by: dp | 16-Mar-08 10:20:27 PM
Shawn Matthews, have you lot your freakin' mind?
Defending the fascist Chinese?
The 2008 Olympics will lie in infamy along with Hitler's 1938 olympics in Berlin.
I do not need to go into detail against the long list of perversions against humanity that the chi-commies represent.
I do everything in my power to repudiate everything that has anything to do with China. You, it seems do not.
Rethink your position. And perhaps rethink just what you are doing to debase the brand value of Western Standard. Believe me, you are doing it no favours.
Epsi
Posted by: epsilon | 17-Mar-08 12:27:56 AM
I'm not saying the Chinese official was right because he was Chinese, Epsi, and I'm certainly not defending China's record in Tibet or anywhere else. Because they're irrelevant. I'm said he was right when he said that Bjork had acted unprofessionally; she allowed her emotions to override prudence and stepped outside the bounds of what she was paid to do. Since this would have been just as true no matter which country she was performing in, how does this amount to a defence of China, in particular?
P.S. Please try to remember that there is no such thing as an evil race; only evil leaders.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 12:37:40 AM
P.S.S. I'm not interested in brands; I'm interested in truths. Please indicate any untruths you find in my arguments. You may find this less satisfying than casting out infidels, but on the other hand you'll get a lot closer to the facts.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 12:40:46 AM
Wow, I go away for the weekend and you guys turn the place into a flamewar moshpit full of liquid rage. Look at this thread, my gosh you managed to jam Björk, PETA, .50 calibre bullets, cooking tips, Ayn Rand Objectivism, and the nazis into a single stream of Hugo Ball-esque thought.
So I have to ask—be honest—am I on an actual political blog or is this like, an elaborate online dadaist installation made up of turing machines?
P.S. Shane, you'd be surprised to know how many people have asked asked me how we got from Björk to animal intestines over the years.
Posted by: Pattern Recognition | 17-Mar-08 8:21:03 AM
Now you are implying that I am racist?
Grow up and stop being a jackass.
I for one applaud Bjork and any other public figure who condemns China for what it is. Obviously you do not.
Rethink your position.
Epsi
Posted by: epsilon | 17-Mar-08 9:31:55 AM
"And perhaps rethink just what you are doing to debase the brand value of Western Standard. Believe me, you are doing it no favours." Source: epsilette
Traffic ranking is up. Internet percentage reach is up. Source: Alexa.com*
Seems to me the brand value is up, at least from the perspective of the only folks who'd tack a monetary value to the brand, advertisers. (Intangible value doesn't pay the bandwidth bills.)
*Alexa's stats aren't nearly as accurate as Comscore's, but trends are trends, if you watch the same gauge over a long period of time.
Posted by: Pattern Recognition | 17-Mar-08 9:52:17 AM
No need to rethink my position, Epsilon. You might want to rethink yours, however. Or better to say, you might want to think on it for the first time.
First, Bjork earns her keep as an entertainer, not as a political pundit. It's an unprofessional abuse of her position to shout her political views from a stage in a host country. What she says or does after hours in her own country is her own affair. Remember the trouble the Dixie Chicks got into when they railed against President Bush?
Second, Bjork is being something of a hypocrite--she wants Tibet freed, but she also knows that it almost certainly can't be done without bloodshed. And I strongly doubt she's willing to die for the cause. She seems okay with others dying for it, though. Granted, at 42 she is too old for active service, but still.
Third, your reaction to Bjork's outburst is tainted by your distaste for the regime in Beijing. They may be communists and brutal dictators, but you have allowed your hate for them to submerge your objectivity. Had Bjork criticized a country you liked, your reaction would have been different. And that makes YOU a hypocrite.
Just because Bjork's criticism was valid does not mean that it was the professional thing to do, or that the Chinese government was wrong in pointing this out. The fact that one is not without fault oneself does not make one's criticism of the faults of another invalid.
Yes, Bjork's criticism was right on. And no, she still shouldn't have done it in such a setting.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 10:42:13 AM
Snow,
Do actually have a life?
Posted by: John West | 16-Mar-08 7:11:47 PM
Actually I do, thanks for asking. How about you?
Posted by: Snowrunner | 17-Mar-08 11:12:59 AM
Shane has no life other than painting himself into corners so finely nuanced they merge into irrelevance.
In doing so, he misses the big picture and the big story. He is also ignoring the whithering membership on this blog that are lowering his advertising revenues. His days here are numbered.
Epsi
Posted by: epsilon | 17-Mar-08 2:44:32 PM
You on the rag, Epsi? Your posts don't usually drip with this much venom, nor show such a lack of reasoning. You go on and on about the "big picture," but you don't even attempt to paint it. You just get up on a soapbox and toss none-too-subtle threats--as if you were in a position to decide who may or may not post on this blog. Now either shit or get off the pot.
Posted by: Shane Matthews | 17-Mar-08 3:20:59 PM
"He is also ignoring the whithering membership on this blog that are lowering his advertising revenues. His days here are numbered."
Shane isn't a big fan if mine but fair's fair. Epsilon, outside sources confirm that traffic is up here at the blog, reach is up here at the blog, and individual pageviews are down. As someone ho buys ad space that tells me three things:
1. More people are reading the site and being exposed to ads.
2. More new readers are reading the site, and being exposed to ads.
3. Less of you are posting to the comments fields which really doesn't matter because riled up commenters aren't reading the ads anyway, they're scrolling down pas them at Mach 3 to get the last word in, and bringing down the [monetized] clickthrough rates.
Take a deep breath, go play some Atlantis Rising, and come back when you can be civil.
Posted by: Pattern Recognition | 17-Mar-08 3:29:24 PM
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