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Friday, September 07, 2007
Begging Us to Do Their Work
Berlin begs Ottawa to stay past 2009
Stung by a thwarted terrorist attack and facing their own ugly parliamentary debate over the war, German leaders are begging Canada to avoid withdrawing troops from Afghanistan in early 2009 as scheduled.
"I want to say how much we appreciate what Canada is doing. We know that, for instance, about 100,000 Canadian soldiers lie in the European soil, [soldiers] that fought in two world wars begun by Germany. And it was never a question for Canada to defend our common values where it was needed," Eckart von Klaeden, Chancellor Angela Merkel's foreign-policy spokesman, said in an interview yesterday.
"Canada is a really important country as a role model for others. It would have consequences for the whole alliance and for the whole Western world if Canada would leave Afghanistan."
In both Canada and Germany, the Afghan mission faces intense pressure from the public and from opposition parties supporting shaky governments. Germany, like Canada, is in the midst of a debate over the nature of its commitment. But both parties in the German coalition government, the left-wing Social Democrats and the conservative Christian Democrats, have declared that troops should stay for at least 10 years, and the Social Democrats are arguing that the number of troops should be increased.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said recently that Canada's 2,500 troops would not stay beyond the current February, 2009, deadline unless there is a parliamentary mandate, which would probably be impossible in the current minority government.
NATO leaders, meeting in Ottawa yesterday and facing withdrawals from the 37-nation Afghanistan mission by Canada, the Netherlands and several other nations, urged Canada to "stay the course."
In the war-plagued south, the loss of Canada and the Netherlands would leave only Britain and the United States, and NATO would be forced to press other nations, which have so far refused to enter this more intense battle, to send their troops into the line of fire.
This has created an air of crisis in Germany, whose 3,500 troops are mostly engaged in non-combat work securing the relatively peaceful north of Afghanistan.
Germany has more soldiers on the ground then we do. Their soldiers stay up in the safe north while ours are in the south fighting off the Taliban. How dare they ask anything of us. We should be the ones asking them to help us! Maybe if they got themselves in gear back in '01 we could have chased the Taliban out once and for all. Instead we're worrying about '09 when most of the NATO coalition will be pulling out.
Posted by Leah Dowe on September 7, 2007 | Permalink
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» Germany wants to keep manning the photocopiers but encourages Canada to fight. from Marginalized Action Dinosaur
Berlin begs Ottawa to stay past 2009
Stung by a thwarted terrorist attack and facing their own ugly parliamentary debate over the war, German leaders are begging Canada to avoid withdrawing troops from Afghanistan in early 2009 as scheduled.
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Tracked on 2007-09-09 7:40:14 AM
Comments
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Posted by: matt | 2007-09-07 12:06:11 PM
Maybe Jack Layton could take over the relatively uneventful German territory and let the German troops take over the job the Canadians are doing.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-09-07 12:13:17 PM
If Harper has come to the conclusion that the rest of NATO has been riding Canada's (and the US's) coattails, Merkel's pleading confirms it. Seems Angie is worried that if we pull out, she's going to have to send her troops to where the enemy actually exists. Good on Harper, Canada can't win this alone, and Europe should have a much bigger responsibility in the matter due to geographic proximity.
Posted by: Neil Flagg | 2007-09-07 12:26:34 PM
Maybe Taliban Jack can convince the Germans to come south and do some building where it's actually needed. Maybe he can convince the Germans to stay outside the compound walls after dark. And maybe he can convince them that fighting the bad guys is to their own benefit, but not likely. Germany is one of the only countries in Europe to allow Sharia law to overide their domestic legal system, maybe they just can't bring themselves to fight against a deathcult that is trying to exterminate jews, professional courtesy so to speak. The Germans sent 3500 islamic water-carriers and we sent 2500 soldiers.
Posted by: Canadian Infidel, Ontario, Canada | 2007-09-07 1:02:04 PM
Maybe Taliban Jack can convince the Germans to come south and do some building where it's actually needed. Maybe he can convince the Germans to stay outside the compound walls after dark. And maybe he can convince them that fighting the bad guys is to their own benefit, but not likely. Germany is one of the only countries in Europe to allow Sharia law to overide their domestic legal system, maybe they just can't bring themselves to fight against a deathcult that is trying to exterminate jews, professional courtesy so to speak. The Germans sent 3500 islamic water-carriers and we sent 2500 soldiers.
Posted by: Canadian Infidel, Ontario, Canada | 2007-09-07 1:04:14 PM
If we have to pull out in 2009 I would recommend that every Canadian man or woman that wants a term or career in the military enroll in the US Armed Forces.
Let's support our own Canadian Forces until then, but by God, THIS IS A STRUGGLE AGAINST PURE EVIL!!!
Epsi
Posted by: Epsilon | 2007-09-07 1:08:48 PM
Perhaps the Germans should help out instead of 'peeking out' from their camps. Anyone can do that.
Posted by: Sounder | 2007-09-07 1:45:40 PM
Remember the times that the rest of the world had to stop the Germans from waging war? I wonder if it will take the same effort to get them to.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-09-07 2:18:51 PM
Good point Zeb - I don't think Putin's Russians
would be overjoyed to see German troops firing live rounds in Afghanistan -in Russia the Great Patriotic War is still real. Remember visiting a RC Church Graveyard in Mindleheim German Federal Republic and virtually every grave was that of a young man from the Community whose photo appeared on the tombstone
and most indicated "todt in russland" dead in Russia
must have been well over one thousand. This is in the fringes of the German Alps -beautiful part of Germany -where the War is also not forgotten.But
Canada needs much more NATO backup both Dutch and German troops should be in the fighting end. Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-09-07 2:55:48 PM
Now is the time for Harper to talk tough. It's a NATO mission and all members are not pulling their weight. It's time for a new command on the front lines where all the danger is. Canada can do plenty to help get the country on track aside from being sitting ducks for terrorist road bombs.
No point talking about jackasses like Layton and Dion or one trick pony Duceppe. They're a hopeless lot and badly out of touch with Canada's proud history, they're making a mockery of it.
Layton could take over bomber command from the Pigeons loft, he's a freaking bird.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-09-07 3:19:45 PM
Canada in fact does not talk tough to anybody -but
NATO needs new members -where do they come from? -we trained a lot of French aircrews and soldiers in Canada when France was in NATO, Israel would join NATO if asked I would think. French aircrews were
particularly impressive -Canada was the great training base for NATO O'Connor and Hillier both
punched their tickets working with NATO. Any European Country which appears to want to join NATO should be encouraged and signed on the dotted line
-Canada cannot continue in Afghanistan without massive assistance, like World War II and Korea
MacLeod focused on the real world.
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-09-07 3:52:19 PM
Der Speigel did an article a while back on the German troops and their pacifist role in Afghanistan.
It struck me that they thought they were being smart to not get involved in the dirty work and let others do it. Nudge nudge, wink wink.
Harper should tell them to get into the action, or quit pretending they are an important part of NATO.
Nothing Germnay has done so far warrants a free ride on the blood of other countries.
Time for Germany to put their mark where their mouth is.
Or will the little Lady continue to sip tea?
Posted by: rockyt | 2007-09-07 4:48:32 PM
Ja,ja! Vemember vehn der Wermacht vas der best ahmy in der vorldt? Herr Schicklegruber vas a big mand den, schtompin' ahl ofer der vordlt. Vas ist los? Der big Wermacht ist now a chickengruber as ist all der cherman pipples. HAHAHAHAH! (sound of oompa band).
Germans, shown up - again, by Canadian troops. Go army!
Posted by: jt | 2007-09-07 7:18:39 PM
That statement is hilarious. It is as if by kissing ass and telling Canadians that we are relevant to world affairs, we will obviously do whatever Germany wants.
Here is the thing, I want to win in Afghanistan, and so do a lot of Canadians. If the German people and politicians can not recognize Afghanistan as an important mission for western society, they are welcome to disappear into the dustbin of history.
Posted by: cj | 2007-09-08 2:25:57 AM
Troops that don't fight! are not really "troops" they are more like Social Workers -It is up to Uncle Steve Harper to tell the German Government Canada
and NATO expect German Soldiers to carry their share
of killing and maiming the Taliban at one time Canada carried a lot of clout in NATO which could not have existed without Canadian Forces -we were the best and remain the best in NATO - tell the Germans fight alongside us or go home.In actual fact
the Allies demolished the World War II German Military -they got their asses kicked, by the Allies who were far superior to them in every way
-(we won). Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-09-08 6:25:43 AM
Mentioning Troops as social workers sounds like exactly what Jack Layton and fellow insipid, vacuous
Socialist sluggards would consider the best use of our Troops. It's peace at all costs. They just don't get the concept, as long as we are threatened by terrorism we can not live in peace.
As for the Germans, Harper should tell them to do their share or get out of the way. What's to lose? Dressing up as soldiers and hanging back in safe zones while our troops face all the danger is just not acceptable.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-09-08 6:51:22 AM
...simple way to explain to Germans what to do:
"here's a shovel, there's the sh*t, do it"
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-09-08 9:55:06 AM
Great line from "Patton" -PBS will feature "The War"
a seven part series by Ken Burns commencing on 23
September 2007 Check the US site Military.Com for more information - Burns films on the Civil War and Baseball are considered Classics - MacLeod.
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-09-08 11:59:46 AM
Maybe Jack Layton could take over the relatively uneventful German territory and let the German troops take over the job the Canadians are doing.
LOL,
Posted by: dinosaur | 2007-09-08 1:31:41 PM
Of course we need to tell the Germans and others to carry a fighting responsibility. We delude ourselves by thinking we accomplish anything as long as we allow the Canadian based Imams to call the cultural tune inside Canada. Our soldiers sacrifice while our courts and our politicians sell us out.
Posted by: DML | 2007-09-08 3:09:54 PM
most cdn families suffered deaths during ww2, my family lost two of my uncles who i never had the pleasure to know. when cdns need help, the german nation should simply say how much and where, they owe us that and always will. it should not be a point of discussion. by the way, did you notice the new makeover of osama bin nutbar or whatever his name is. i swear when i was at first choice for a haircut, he was in the next chair getting his facial hair coloured, and then surprising enough,went in the back for a wax job.
Posted by: john a | 2007-09-08 7:06:30 PM
Red Star has a banner line piece with color photos
advocating that Canada and NATO negotiate withe the Taliban and also is focused on the divisions in the Taliban over strict compliance with ultra strict
Taliban interpretation of the Muslim culture.Harper says he will not negotiate with Taliban as evidenced by a statement from Minister Bernier -NATO cannot
negotiate with them in any event without offending the Government of Afghanistan -Red Star is up to it's usual tricks -spouting the Liberal and Socialist Horde nonsense. Meanwhile they realize that McSquinty is getting his ass kicked in Ontario's election. Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-09-09 4:27:43 AM
Canada as part of NATO is in Afghanistan to kill and main the Taliban -as many as possible. Canadian Soldiers have a well earned reputation as hard tough
fighters - at the end of World War II in Europe the
Canadian Army was rated as the best fighting force
in particular the Parachute Battalion was outstanding - Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-09-09 5:47:27 AM
Another German soldier died yesterday in Afghanistan bringing their total to 25. Fewer than Canada but hardly something to sneeze at. It was Germany that provided most of the ISAF force in Afghanistan after Canada bugged out from it's airfield defence mission in Kandahar in 2002 after the US bombed a 3 PPCLI range pactice. We've already cut and run once in this war. For at least a year there were no more than SIX Canadians in the country while the Germans had thousands of troops deployed. We only returned to get out of going to Iraq...we took what looked like the safe way out so I wouldn't point fingers at the Germans and accuse anyone else of national cowardice.
Posted by: Fred T. Ward | 2007-09-09 11:46:47 AM
Very true, Fred T. Ward. Chretien had to do something so he chose Afghanistan under NATO Mission. He knew politically it would be a killer if he sent troops to Iraq. The much maligned US has lost hundreds of troops in the Afghan war.
Chretien sent them there without a vote in Parliament, now, when it's unfolding as all wars before, soldiers getting killed, the Opposition Parties are all yelling to get them out, fold the tents and run. In their minds, incapable of reason, peace will ensue. There can be no peace when we're constantly threatened by Terrorism.
Harper has the tough job of dealing with it, hopefully the Canadian people will give him the Majority he needs to do the right thing. The sooner the better.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-09-09 12:53:51 PM
You guys give Harper a majority and our boys are going to the Iraqi meat grinder. Or the Iranian one if Steven decides to be a true follower.
I want our troops to succeed in Afghanistan, I think we need more soldiers, more armour, more everything; including help from other nations, we can't do all the heavy lifting there.
But the plan needs to be something more than just shooting bad guys; a lot of the people being recruited into the ranks of 'the enemy' would most likley be pleased as punch if they had running water, power, food, and security and that's where the negotiation aspect comes in. If the Russians couldn't wipe out Afghan resistance with 100,000 troops and an adjoining border, we're not gonna have much luck with only 43,000 guys from the other side of the world.
Posted by: KNW | 2007-09-09 2:03:52 PM
KFC ~
Chicken attitudes like yours will ensure defeat. This is not a war in Afghanistan. It is one battle in the world-wide war against Islamofascism. You can't negotiate with terrorists unless you are discussing whether to be beheaded or shot.
Posted by: obc | 2007-09-09 2:17:42 PM
KNW: You know that for a fact do you?
There many good things happening in Afghanistan and we are contributing in more ways than fighting.
Problem is, the fighting has to continue as long as the Terrorist Taliban are presenting themselves.
Peace and security in that place have to be made first. The evil has to be slain first.
Using Iraq and Bush as battering rams against the Conservatives as a last refuse from the usual sources, you know who you are.
Iraq will be sorted, hopefully sooner than later, it's far beyond armchair generals to know the answers to such a complicated situation. It weighs heavily on the Americans, constant slagging is of little help.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-09-09 2:19:34 PM
. . . and Iraq is also not a war, but a huge battle against terrorism. Smaller battles are also taking place today in Thailand, the Philipines, Indonesia, Chechnya, Lebanon, Israel, Nigeria, Sudan, and Algeria - to name but a few.
Posted by: obc | 2007-09-09 2:20:35 PM
KFC doesn't understand that if the Taliban came across a group of Boy Scouts, minding their own business, unarmed, innocent, they'd behead them just for being Infidels.
It's still not getting through to many bone heads negotiating with evil wretches is not an option, they want us all dead.
The Korean Missionaries was a prime example of their inhuman cruelty. Sadly the Korean government had to give them ransom to save the rest from the same cruel fate.
We are fighting the scourge of terrorism and it's world wide. It's war and we have to fight or be forever terrorized. It's us or them. The Leftoids can sit and sing Kumbaya and criticize while the tough job gets done, we'll assure them that right by winning this one too.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-09-09 2:42:00 PM
OBC you going to join the ranks and pick up a gun then?
Posted by: Toronto the Right | 2007-09-09 2:53:39 PM
We should forbid Toronto people from going to Afghanistan to fight. While they are well-versed in warfare and the use of weapons from living in their racist city, they are also so viciously anti-everything that they would side with the Taliban. No traitors please, just patriots like those from outside Toronto.
Posted by: Zebulon Pike | 2007-09-09 3:07:31 PM
Zeb...touche'!
Posted by: tomax7 | 2007-09-09 3:46:02 PM
"OBC you going to join the ranks and pick up a gun then?"
I already have one - and will fight on the home front if we get riots like those in France. The French have been disarmed, so they can do nothing. Let those Islamofascists try anything in Alberta, and they may find themselves dead on our streets.
Posted by: obc | 2007-09-09 4:49:48 PM
Yeah, OBC, because we're the crossroads of the world out here in Alberta..
Posted by: KNW | 2007-09-09 7:07:56 PM
I'll look out for my corner of the world. I suggest you do the same for your family & neighbours. If you wait for the police to show up, you and yours may be dead long before they appear.
Posted by: obc | 2007-09-09 7:26:58 PM
Canada is not at war. The armed Forces are at war. Canada is at the Mall.
Posted by: obc | 2007-09-09 7:32:52 PM
there was a protest against nato by the usual suspects in victoria yesterday.apparently the elected leaders of nato countries are war criminals because some of the shells used by nato forces contain depleted uranium that causes birth defects in children.having to endure the bleatings of the protest leader to a reporter on news radio cknw was nauseating.the only war crimes being perpetrated as far as i can see is sedition and treason.providing comfort to our enemies is treachery of the most vile sort.when one or more of these islamofascist terrorist finaly carries out a successful attack on our country these "useful idiots" better keep their heads on a swivel and watch their backs because they are complicit and will be judged accordingly.
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