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Friday, August 24, 2007
Re: Iran and Canada
Jordan's Piece on Iran made me write the following response which I believe was necessary since the WS readers need to know more about things they read and hear and it helps form a healthy debate over critical issues...
First of all, it is really disappointing to see that a US ally such as Canada let the US go down its "destructive path" instead of helping it all the way. But the issue is not there, the core of Jordan's argument is that "a grand bargain" will somehow stop the Iranian regime in its hot pursuit of weapon related nuclear technology but he fails to tell us how he'd like to address the fact that Iranian regime's ultimate survival is going to be solely depended on nuclear weapons since it is facing several threats from the outside world, mainly US and other western powers and also from inside where majority of people are increasingly anti-regime and pro-freedom. A regime, as Jordan Michael Smith put it, is "weak, fearful and defensive" will not give up because if it does so, it will lose its iron-fist gained legitimacy among its own unhappy people more than ever. And it is also naive to think that they will be convinced to give up their nuclear ambitions since the mullahs know they can not match the conventional power of the coalition forces and therefore nuclear weapons will be the only answer to that growing threat.
I'd like to address some of the issues raised in Jordan's piece:
1- European union has been trying hard on the so-called "grand bargain" with the Iranians since 1997 through a process the EU dubbed "Critical Negotiations" and these negotiations collapsed in 2005 when the regime decided to go on with its nuclear program disregarding the demands of EU and IAEA to halt its enrichment program. FYI, Iran has already disregarded two serious UNSC resolutions to halt its nuke program which resulted in somewhat light sanctions against the regime and its cronies. Iran is going to step in Saddam's path to destruction and war by ignoring the UN resolutions. [+]
2- Jordan seems to be worried about the US losing its legitimacy further around the world if they would go to war with Iran. I disagree with that notion and I'd like to mention that, what will de-legitimize the US and other western powers in the eyes of freedom loving people of the world is these useless "negotiations with evil people". Indeed what the Iranian people love about Canada and the US is that these two governments have been doing their best not to trade with the regime and isolate that wicked regime at the international level.
3- Unlike Soviet Union and China, Iran doesn't have a powerful conventional military might that would protect its regime and also be a "MAD" (Mutually Assured Destruction) factor. This means, as I mentioned above, that the Iranians have no option but to opt for nuclear weapons as a deterrent. Now, are we ready to accept a nuke-armed Iran? A regime that has, in many occasions, vowed to wipe Israel (an ally of Canada and the US) off the map. Ask yourself whether we're willing to let the mullahs do that thing once they have the bomb? One may argue that Soviets had vowed to do the same and they never did, but my response is that a regime that easily uses the cranes to hang people and calls on the world to convert to its own version of radical Islam should not be given that opportunity to begin with. We simply can't risk...
4- Instead of letting America go down in its fight against the world banker of terrorism, i.e Iran, we in Canada must help the Americans in their efforts against that tyrannical regime. One of the best ways to counter the Iranian threat is to help the people of Iran through any possible means. But if it ever comes down to "tactical strikes" against the regime, Canada must stand behind the United States since the threat of a nuclear armed Iran is a serious threat to the existence of the western civilization in which Canada is a prime member. But like I said, the best viable option to deal with the mullahs is to help embolden the people of Iran. Canada can help, for instance, by setting up a Persian language radio broadcast into Iran or by setting up funds helping the striking workers' families. Canada has a lot of potentials in helping free that country from tyranny. We haven't tried our options yet....
As someone who has lived all of his life in that country and seen the brutality of the regime first hand, I urge all westerners to realize that the threat posed by the Iranian theocracy is serious and dangerous and any negligence in dealing with this growing cancer will be catastrophic. A free and nuclear free Iran ensures a peaceful and prosperous middle-east where terrorists won't be bred to fight the infidels with the Iranian money. Iranian sponsored terrorism has been in motion since 1979 and it can be stopped if the west showed some resolve.
Posted by Winston on August 24, 2007 in International Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
whoever wrote this article... What exactly are you basing anything you wrote on? seems like you need to go and educate youself a bit on how not to be a victim of marketing ...
Posted by: deej | 2007-08-24 5:36:53 AM
Agree totally with the last paragraph.
Only fools would ignore any theocracy in the ME let alone the biggest sponsor of terrorism.
Nobody is "marketing", or manufacturing anything about Iran, it's there for all who WANT to see, documented for decades.
They are working on nuclear capability by stealth, smart people are concerned. Take off the blinders.
Posted by: LizJ | 2007-08-24 6:16:43 AM
Hmmm.
LizJ or deej - LizJ or deej - LizJ or deej -
LizJ is the champion! Takes the cake! Stands in the winner's circle! Is awarded the Gold Medal!
Posted by: obc | 2007-08-24 7:06:12 AM
Winston, you keep reminding us why we should not listen to what you have to say about Iran - you are "someone who has lived all of his life in that country". So when you try to tell us how dealing with Iran is in our best interests, we can only stop and notice that you're not thinking about what's good for Canada or the US. You're thinking about what's good for you personally. You hate the powers that be in Iran and so if there is any chance of working peacefully with them (which is in our interests to do) you reject it. You just want them out (or dead) because you don't like them. While that might be fine for you, it is no reason for us to believe that helping you helps us.
So please, don't pretend to tell me what is in my best interests. I was born here, love Canada, and want to do what is good for my country. So if there is a way to work peacefully with Iran, we should look into it, whether outsiders like you like it or not. Canada is not your country. Don't tell us what is good for you is good for us. It just isn't so.
Posted by: Born Here | 2007-08-24 7:09:45 AM
The Islamic Republic of IRAN is in dire economic straits due to their incompetence and total compliance with Muslim nonsense - the Western Powers do not need to attack Iran - but could cripple the strange country by destroying their economy by closing down their access to real currencies and credit resources. For instance their commercial airlines (insert laughter here) cannot find anyway to overhaul their ancient aircraft without paying about ten times the going average world price. US and Western allies could force devaluation of Iranian currency, and siezure of Iranian assets -if the Mullahs cannot pay their fanatics nor Hezbollah, they will find IOU's unacceptable. I doubt despite some unsubstantiated reports that any country will attack Iran -but if Iran is attacked it will be by airborne weapons and missiles. Which would cause the deaths of many many citizens and achieve nothing of value except a no vacancy sign on the door to raghead paradise.
Canada should not permit any Iranian immigration
and phoney Iranian academic Attaran should be deported along with his pet goat. Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 7:31:17 AM
The Islamic Republic of IRAN is in dire economic straits due to their incompetence and total compliance with Muslim nonsense - the Western Powers do not need to attack Iran - but could cripple the strange country by destroying their economy by closing down their access to real currencies and credit resources. For instance their commercial airlines (insert laughter here) cannot find anyway to overhaul their ancient aircraft without paying about ten times the going average world price. US and Western allies could force devaluation of Iranian currency, and siezure of Iranian assets -if the Mullahs cannot pay their fanatics nor Hezbollah, they will find IOU's unacceptable. I doubt despite some unsubstantiated reports that any country will attack Iran -but if Iran is attacked it will be by airborne weapons and missiles. Which would cause the deaths of many many citizens and achieve nothing of value except a no vacancy sign on the door to raghead paradise.
Canada should not permit any Iranian immigration
and phoney Iranian academic Attaran should be deported along with his pet goat. Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 7:31:32 AM
Born Here,
Living in peace? Oh you must mean when they raped and killed the Canadian reporter, or perhaps peace to you means supplying the land mines that are killing our solders in Afghanistan.
Just another moronic asshole that can't see the forest for the trees. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terror in the middle east presently.
I was born in Canada as well and remember a time when Canadians actually stood, and fought for the freedom of repressed people (like the Iranians) along side our allies, no matter where, no matter what the cost. Just as we are doing in Afghanistan.
Although a military option may not be the best approach at this time, Canada should assist in any way it can to bring down that regime from the outside.
Posted by: deepblue | 2007-08-24 7:50:54 AM
Earth to MacBlowhard: The scatology you post is hard enough to stomach the first time. Your recent penchant for posting everything twice is becoming rather tedious.
Posted by: Don | 2007-08-24 8:38:12 AM
Born here:
Any ideas on how we can carry out this peaceful dialogue?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 8:42:54 AM
More comment from Don, the chronic bedwetter, that is to say, the chronic bedwetter. Go take your pills now, Don, Don Macleod, repeat MacLeod. Don used to be Saint Alabaster. Macleod, Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 8:45:36 AM
Born:
Can you give us a demonstration of your skills by showing us how to placate ROGER?
We are breathlessly awaiting to see how your self-declared wisdom can work in this simple test case.
It's only one madman on a blog. Surely, that cannot be so difficult?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 8:47:01 AM
The biggest thread to peace and human being are Bush administration and zionism puppet with nuclear arsonal, just open your eyes see home many innocent people are being killed by US and Israeal in the name of terrorists or Alquida.
Both of them are occupiers and have no good reason to occupy the motherland of these people are calling terrorist, People are sying to get rid of these war mongers and devils.
Bush has contorlon biggest Nuclear arsenal in world and very dangerous man to be contorlled, this stubburn man does not even listen to his own people and congressmaen , he is mad and I am afraid he may use nuclear missile agains another country and kill millions of people in the name of democracy. I hope one day we can get rid of these devils and have real peace in world.
Posted by: Kevin | 2007-08-24 8:48:03 AM
Kevin:
Ever heard of spellcheck?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 8:53:25 AM
New Brunswick is considering a immigration policy with priorities directed to immigrants starting with about 500 families from the PRC -the trade off is we get the Chinese but no ragheads like roger the dodger and munroe the moron - no ragheads here in any event -can't pass the bi-lingual French English intelligence tests -and they insist on bringing their own goats -NB goats have more class, but NB will provide the ragheads with free pigs - Macleod
in tiny perfect raghead free Moncton New Brunswwick
Canada, that is to say, Canada
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 8:59:24 AM
How about posting your comments in French -that is to say, French, the language of the Republic of France and the Canadian Province of Quebec thanks to our British ancestors. Don't think Quebec wants any more Ragheads either -what does Bill 101 say about Arabic Signage, repeat Signage -Quebec won't let the Ragheads post their Signs in Arabic or whatever but
photographs of Camels is ok - for now -MacLeod
-here piggy, piggy, piggy.
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 9:21:04 AM
Jeez I think I'm pissing Roger the Dodger off - Winston if you are seeking support for your friends and whatever in the Islamic Republic of Iran you need a wider variety of posters then the phonies and near do wells like Munroe the Moron and Roger the Dodger, currently drooling on his keyboard -must go feed our fully bi-lingual New Brunswick born and bred pigs - here piggy, piggy, piggies - Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 9:43:02 AM
Rag head ROGER ya right.
"Prosperity?' So much prosperity in the ME. 80% unemployment and a nonexistent economy
........except for rag head production of course.
Over here, ethnic ghettos riddled with the same unemployment, crime and who knows what twisted malfeasance.
Posted by: rogers gay lover | 2007-08-24 9:58:40 AM
Kevin- You should get down on your knees and thank the Deity of your choice for the existence of the United States of America.
Without them I dare say you would not be able to publically express yourself as you have meagerly attempted to do on this post.
God Bless the United States of America and God Bless George W. Bush!
Oh, and nuke Iran. Now.
Posted by: atric | 2007-08-24 10:13:43 AM
Earth to Don
Do you ever have anything positive to offer? or even vaguely beyond personal attacks?
You must lead a particularly lonely life immersed in a stagnant pool of constant negativity. I would further surmise that you are of particularly lowbrow breeding stock with the inevitable corresponding intelligence level to match.
I can just see your mouth twitching, desperately trying to formulate something remotely intelligent to say, but the crushing pressure of your heavily sloped forehead must, by the laws of physics, preclude the rational thought compartments of your brain from performing with even a rudimentary functionality.
Posted by: missing link | 2007-08-24 10:17:24 AM
Who is OBC? Do you have another lover ROGER. You prefer women? ya right, camels and young men are the bread and butter of you commical Ali types. If your culture wasn't such a joke you wouldn't be so defensive about it.
Like shooting fish in a barrel when it comes to Arab society.
Posted by: rogers gay lover | 2007-08-24 10:22:29 AM
I just named the biggest and fattest pig in the piggery Roger - he already responds to his new name -
here Roger the piggy - stop biting your brother's ass Roger! -go shit in the corner! Macleod
Posted by: Jack Macleod | 2007-08-24 10:38:20 AM
Today's Recap:
1. Winston grinds the same old weary axe.
2. LizJ jumps in with shriveled old spinster's view.
3. Born Here makes an intelligent comment. (Silence ensues for several minutes over this extremely rare event.)
4. MacBlowhard shows us why bigotry is a mainstream of the right.
5. Roger cracks a funny.
6. Atric praises the U.S., fellates George Bush, and then calls for the nuking of people, especially if they're brown.
7. With George Bush already fellated, missing link moves to fellate MacBlowhard.
8. Roger cracks a funny.
9. MacBlowhard farts.
10. My work here is done.
Posted by: Don | 2007-08-24 11:10:57 AM
Winston -
The circumstances of Iran since the Shah seem to prove that a "typical" terrorist-Totalitarian government can in fact smother individual liberty.
Everyone wants Iran to be free and peacefully prosperous, but now the time for waiting and hoping is over.
We already have ONE laboratory experiment in Middle Eastern democracy in full operation, next door in Iraq. It will either produce the desired favorable results or it won't. It is very costly in terms of human life (of OUR soldiers) and it is ENOUGH.
Iran is not worth another such "experiment" in my estimation. I don't want us to go into some damned "War" (i.e. civil police action treatment of terrorists as though they were just squabling members of s disfunctional family) in Iran.
Iran is playing the nuclear card. I want America to bomb ALL of Iran's nuclear facilities down to the center of the earth. Then I want us to wait maybe two or three days and if the Iranians don't "have it together" then I want America to bomb the entire nation of Iran into a molten glowing piece of glass.
Starting right this minute would be fine, but anytime today.
Posted by: Conrad-USA | 2007-08-24 11:43:28 AM
CONRAD-USA---GREAT POST!
Posted by: atric | 2007-08-24 11:48:53 AM
Invading Countries, in the name of exporting Democracy never works.
Since a lot of you guys believe in Al-quada they are Sunni Muslims. Iran is a Shia country. I am sure Al-queda would have no problem attacking Iran. Since many Sunni Insurgents are trying to disrupt the Political process of the Shia majority in Iraq.
Iran is not some backwards theocracy. They are just as western as us.
Check this vid out: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=114_1187920946
Persians fiercely object to the Islamic Republic that Ahmadinejad is trying to bring to Iran.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 12:41:12 PM
Wrong link: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=622_1187871357
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 12:44:54 PM
Ed:
I disagree with the declaration in your first sentence.
Germany or Japan are now democracies thanks to actions taken in WWII.
As far as I recall in my history classes, Germany was invaded.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 12:44:56 PM
And Japan was nuked into submission.
Posted by: atric | 2007-08-24 12:46:53 PM
Germany was a democracy during the Weimar Republic weren't they? During the 1920s, Japan progressed toward a democratic system of government in a movement known as 'Taishō Democracy.
This is propaganda you were probably talking about right, Winston?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c2b_1187851116
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 12:48:10 PM
atric:
We'll watch closely as Redmontonian tries to spin out of his credibility crisis based on his over-the-top declarative statement.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 12:48:54 PM
SYF, America never exported democracy to Germany and Japan. Hitler got elected through a Democracy. We can argue this point all we want. I just googled "Japan Democracy" and there are links arguing that it is not one.
SYF, we will watch continue to attack by Hyperbolic statement because you have nothing else to say and you know I am right about everything else.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 12:57:46 PM
Redmonton:
The National Socialists lost the war.
A Marxist socialist dictatorship collaped in the Soviet Union.
Both are left-wing philosophies which agree on social control of the populace through legislation (social engineering). The only way they differ is in on the question of means of production.
Your marxist friends believed that the state must control means of economic activity and that the individual must be subjugated to the will of the system.
What further proof would you need that left-wing philosophies are abject failures?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 1:06:20 PM
Now there is talk of replacing Saddam with a new "Saddam" in Iraq.
http://tinyurl.com/28ay8p
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 1:06:26 PM
I didn't know Edmonton was in the United States.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 1:08:10 PM
Syf, you started to label already that usually means you have nothing to debate on. As for your last statement, I keep up with world news.
Anyways, back on topic. Iranians want a free democracy.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee6_1187497758
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 1:15:04 PM
Redmonton:
Label what?
Your nickname?
I feel sorry for how you're embarrassed by your political viewpoint.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 1:17:48 PM
How do you know I am a left-winger? Your are making assumptions through labelling. Tis simple as that, my friend.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 1:20:32 PM
I can read.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 1:21:59 PM
Are you denying you're a left winger?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 1:23:30 PM
Why do you want to know my Political affiliation, anyway? It has no relevance to the original topic. If you must know I am more a Libertarian than Authoritarian.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 1:30:01 PM
Good. Now we're getting somewhere.
What then, must free people do to ensure the forces of authoritarianism cannot enslave them?
In other words, is freedom really free or is there a price to be paid for it, such as standing up and being heard?
In the absence of free speech and the unwillingness to defend our liberties, what is the nature of the ‘freedom' which ensues?
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 1:36:50 PM
syf, are you relating your questions to the situation in Iran or in general?
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 2:08:02 PM
Just probing your attitudes in general.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 2:15:09 PM
Edmontonian has shown he is left leaning to the point of tipping over based on comments on this site...libertarian? I don't think so, as most libertarians I've seen and heard from are more conservative leaning than socialist.
Posted by: Markalta | 2007-08-24 2:20:50 PM
mark:
Why don't you let ed answer the question by himself.
I'm sure he's capable of articulating his attitudes. No need for declarative statements.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 2:24:40 PM
How do we trust what you have seen and heard, Markalta? Libertarianism is a social concept, whereas Conservatism is an economic concept. Libertarianism can promoted, independently of the Economic ideology. One does not have to be Conservative to be Libertarian. I can conclude that a lot of people believe in Authoritarianism as well. Promoting censorship of opposing views, profound ethnocentrism, and dogmatism are all Authoritarian values that a lot of people seem to share on this site.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 2:33:14 PM
My bad...apparently Ed considers himself a libertarian. Who am I to disagree? I do think that you are somewhere out in left field though, is that fair?
Posted by: Markalta | 2007-08-24 2:39:43 PM
LOL:
Once we get to the discussion of problem-solving, nobody can hide their true colours.
Anybody can be a critic. Only the wise can articulate solutions.
So far, there's plenty of criticism with scant aevidence of offerng a positive alternative.
Posted by: set you free | 2007-08-24 2:44:00 PM
I believe that each issue should be examined from many perspectives. Not just a conservative or liberal perspective because then the person will already have their views set in stone, whether or not they are confronted with facts, logic, or evidence.
Posted by: Edmontonian | 2007-08-24 2:48:17 PM
..
Welcome to the Low Standard Blog.
All children playing in a litter box full of dog shit all the time ....
.
Posted by: John | 2007-08-24 3:03:20 PM
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