The Shotgun Blog
Thursday, September 14, 2006
It's always fun to read encyclopedias, but I must confess I have never until this moment sought one out for breaking news. As has been reported just about everywhere, the suspect in the Dawson College shootings Kimveer Gill was pictured on a website holding a Beretta CX4 Storm. This morning I've been watching the Wikipedia entry--which can be edited by anyone--on the Storm and note this is the second time it has been updated within the last couple of hours. The first entry, which I found early this morning, made the claim this was the weapon Gill used, though I could not find that claim anywhere in the MSM and was not aware that this was confirmed by police. (However, that he used this gun does seem likely.) The current entry still contains that claim, but now has an interesting detail in the last line (italics mine): "The weapon is considered restricted in Canada, but Gill's lack of a criminal record cleared him for possession." Has this been reported anywhere in the MSM?
Here is the last paragraph in full, copied at 11:20 AM.
On Wednesday, September 13 2006, a gunman opened fire on students at Montreal's Dawson College with a CX4 Storm Semi-Automatic Carbine. The gunman, Kimveer Gill, had proudly displayed the weapon on a popular goth website, vampirefreaks.com. One woman was shot to death and 19 people were injured in the incident. The weapon is considered restricted in Canada, but Gill's lack of a criminal record cleared him for possession.
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Pictures of the VF website featured on Ace of Spades blog show photos of the killer holding the weapon assumed to be used in the slayings.
Weapons nerds know their guns and identified the weapon Gills is holding.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-09-14 2:17:01 PM
This just shows that candy-assed gun control does not work. There is no point in only restricting known criminals from having dangerous guns. We need to make sure the not-yet-a-criminals don't have them either. We don't need gun CONTROL, we need gun BANS.
Posted by: Mark Logan | 2006-09-14 2:32:02 PM
Right on, Mark, no guns for the cops and armoured car gaurds sounds fine to me.
While we're at it let's declare Canada a nuclear free zone.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-09-14 2:37:33 PM
I'm with Mark. Ban all guns and all those, you know,...criminal types in cities like Toronto will immediately hand in all their unregistered, smuggled, already illegal weaponry. I feel warm and fuzzy all over just contemplating it. Now if we could just do something about those red-necked Western farmers and their gopher guns, Canada could be the violence free utopia we all know it can be.
Posted by: BoomNoZoom | 2006-09-14 3:20:23 PM
I'm wit' chu, BoomNoZoom. Let's see if we can get them to pass a law against shooting people and BAN murders not just CONTROL them like they do now.
Posted by: Speller | 2006-09-14 3:50:12 PM
And if I'm voted Miss America ... why can't we all just get along?
Posted by: Set you free | 2006-09-14 4:08:59 PM
Just to clarify, I subsequently found a story in the Globe and Mail that says:
"The 25-year-old man used legally registered guns for the rampage at Dawson College."
The Globe story does not cite a source for this info, nor does it state whether the guns were registered by the suspect.
Also, at the end of this CBC story
"Gill was not previously known to police and his parents were shocked, said [SQ spokesman] Doré."
It is not a direct quote, but this implies Gill had no criminal record though does not state it specifically. It is not clear if Dore when referring to police means all police or just the SQ.
I also note the Wikipedia entry on the Storm was modified again, this time tempered down to "Weapon allegedly used by Kimveer Gill in the Dawson College shooting." That is a bit more reasonable.
Posted by: Kevin Steel | 2006-09-14 4:22:56 PM
So dude has several pics of himself with the gun on the web site and drops hints over and over that he's going to do mayhem with it and not one of the other freakazoids on that site tells him to seek help or bothers to alert the authorities they should look into it?
What about his mom and dad - did they know he had these guns? Did they think it was okay for thier clearly mal-adjusted spawn to own them?
This makes at least 4 freakazoids from that site who've committed mass murder ( one in New York, two in Medicine Hat and this one). If your son or daughter is a goth I'd get them to a shrink asap !
Posted by: Nbob | 2006-09-14 4:44:30 PM
There is an increasingly strong arguement, that instead of banning guns, we should be assessing minds!
Posted by: Lady | 2006-09-14 5:26:56 PM
Maybe we should get jack layton involved. He has the answers to all violence in the world. We could give him a multi-million dollar budget to solve it. He is good at living off the taxpayer dollars.
Posted by: john a. | 2006-09-14 5:48:39 PM
Whether a person supports that suggestion would, it seems to me, depend entirely on whether they are the assessor or the assessee. We live in a country where one of our longest serving heads of state (spare me the GG lecture) stated (on the subject of factual evidence); "A proof is da proof. What's a good proof? A proof is a proof and when da proof is da good proof, dats proven."
Howzabout we assess the minds of the people who kept electing him?
Posted by: BoomNoZoom | 2006-09-14 5:50:43 PM
BNZ... that has been my overriding point for some time now, the world has lost its collective mind, and parts of Canada are leading in that department.
Oh well, at least we lead in something.
When a modern country can consistently vote for that kind of leadership, and still put over 100 of these freaks in the past election, we get what we deserve.
You would think even the thickest of persons would understand the folly of so called "gun control", and even after the events of yesterday proving that point, I can only imagine the fallout that will ensue.
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-09-14 6:04:27 PM
Yeehaw! I'm with Logan, nothing like a good ol'banning, here's my list:
- loud shirts
- hairy warts
- flat tires
- Timex wrist watches
Posted by: No Ban Zone | 2006-09-14 6:15:39 PM
Mark...The weapons used in the recent Montreal massacre are prohibited in Canada, IOW they are already band items, which once again proves, that gun controls or bans will never work as long there is evil in the hearts of people. I know what you are thinking, "it's those evil Americans and their lax gun laws" (I dare you to try and get a gun in the US with you Canadian ID or even get an American friend to make a straw purchase for you: $100K fine and 10 years in US federal prison; that is not a lax law). Even if the US had a total ban, along with every other nation in this world, criminals would still get guns. How you ask? A gun is not a high tech weapon. They can be easily machined in a home garage. In fact, in many countries with strict limitations on gun possession, including here in Canada, there is a growing cottage industry of home made guns. I realize it is in vogue to blame America but I would like to see the gov't release the stats on Canadian home made guns that are on our streets. Furthermore, I would like point out that if there is such a ground swell of support for gun control in Canada why are so many Canadians seeking weapons on the black market and risking prison to get a gun? One last point, if Canada is so restrictive toward gun possession by Canadians, why do we produce so many weapons for the domestic American market. For example, Para-Ordinance is allowed by Canadian law to export weapons from Canada that are otherwise prohibited by our laws even for our police to have. Might it be that there is a high ranking Liberal on the board of Para-ordinance? Might they employ a Liberal friendly law firm? Hmmm...
Posted by: "Biff" Henderson | 2006-09-14 8:56:15 PM
Despite the fact that this incident only demonstrates the folly of the gun registry, it will no doubt fire up the urban populations of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver to...maintain the gun registry. Read the comments that accompany any Globe & Mail story on this event. A good portion of the commenters (mostly Toronto-dwellers) think this is a strong reminder of why we need to the keep the registry. It really boggles the mind. Yeah, let's hit prairie farmers who like hunting with even more regulations because we big city liberals can't keep our kids from going nuts and shooting each other!
Posted by: Raging Ranter | 2006-09-14 8:57:36 PM
Addendum...Rumor has it that not all of the wounded treated in the Montreal hospitals are their because of actual physical gunshot wounds. Apparently the number includes some who are psychologically wounded. Can this be verified and if so do the statistics given to us by our gov't and media include other similar stats when reporting on gun violence in attempts to forward their agenda.
Posted by: "Biff" Henderson | 2006-09-14 9:02:58 PM
That doesn't appear to be a rumor - I think Montreal EMS has confirmed a few were for psych wounds - but does it matter?
Severe psychological shock can induce serious physical conseqences ( i.e. lowering of blood pressure ) that can kill in a matter of minutes (i.e. heart attack, loss of O2 to the brain ).
If the shock was so severe that they were transported by EMS that likely means they were at, or near, critical status. Their wounds would be more life threatening than those who suffered bullet wounds to non-critical tissues.
Those hospitalized for psychological wounds and those uncounted who, no doubt, will suffer some degree of post traumatic stress have also been harmed by his evil and deserve our sympathy and prayers just as much as those who will carry the physical scars of his madness.
btw: we're up to five mass murder freaks from that site - there was also one in Toronto who killed his bro and tried to off his step-dad. Compare that to one wacko from a neo- nazi site.
What does that say about goths ?
Posted by: Nbob | 2006-09-14 9:52:04 PM
Kimveer Gill, who massacred 20 students (1 dead) in Montreal on 9/13 was dreaming of another Falluja in Montreal. Remember when the Islamists captured 4 American contractors minding their own business in their SUV in Falluja on April 2004, and tortured, burnt and killed them, some decapitated, and hung their naked bodies on the bridge spanning the Eurphrates, while the Muslim kids were jumping up and down in glee (all captured on video)?
This is what Gill has to say on page 19 of his diary, which the MSM is refusing to publish. This makes him sympathetic to the Islamists:
Title: "Vengeance is coming
It will be a quiet and peacefull morning. A light drizzle will be starting up. The clouds will be grey, so grey. Just the way I like it. Disembowled bodies litter the streets. Some have been decapitated, others hung off bridges and over-passes. Yet, others still lie burning. Flames slowly eatting away at their putrid flesh. Glorious. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA They have paid this day, they truly have paid. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA"
dated December 23, 2005.
Muslim Gills from Wikipedia:
The people of the "Sipra" sub-clan of the Gills had mostly migrated towards Jhang (in the present-day province of Punjab (Pakistan). Most of them converted to Islam. Gills in Kabul are also Muslims.
Posted by: Behnam | 2006-09-15 1:03:21 AM
Marc Lepine, the perpetrator of the Montreal Polytechnic massacre in 1989 was a Muslim, from an Algerian father.
His real name is Jamil Gharbi (In Arabic, handsome, from the west)
Please check with Wikipedia
Posted by: Behnam | 2006-09-15 1:11:04 AM
......one last b4 bed
R. Ranter -
Are you sure this proves the folly of the gun reg. ? How do you think they ID'd him so fast?
Let's see - a person "unknown to police" (no prints or photo on file) -not known to anyone who saw him - not yet reported missing - face (perhaps) wounded nearly beyond recognition.
My guess it went like this-
With in minutes of calling in the numbers to they had a name and address of the shooter.
With in minutes they had officers at the Gill home : "'scuse me mame, do you know where your son is ? "
With in minutes they had a search warrant ( via telephone ) for his room and the car.
Shortly after that they were able to satisfy themselves there was only one shooter and that he had not left any parting gifts behind ( e.g. a booby trap in the trunk of his car or time bomb in the metro )
How many more hours before mom reported him missing ? It would have been the next day, at the earliest, before a grotesque photo or ( more likely ) artist drawing was circulated through the press. Would it be recognizable ? Would he be recognized at all ? (He was a loner).
Now what if there was another shooter or last laugh IED left behind - those saved hours could be the difference between capture and escape, life and death. At the very least, they were able to clear up the confusion about another 1 or 2 shooters,confirm he acted alone and call off any investigation, reopen the metro, etc. in short order.
The Gin Reg. is never going to prevent all gun crimes but it is a useful tool for prevention, investigation and prosecution of those crimes.
If that is how the ID went down - you can kiss your majority gov't goodbye if you try and kill it.
Posted by: Nbob | 2006-09-15 1:40:38 AM
Actually, I imagine walking over to his car that countless witnesses saw him get out of may have helped as well. And it would have been far more reliable, tracing the gun is a long shot as it could have come from anywhere and is far more likely to be stolen than his vehicle.
Pushing that ridiculous waste of money through using hysteria verses facts will mean you can kiss a more common sense Alberta goodbye, as it has not, nor ever will, save a single life, but then there are those of us that feel that is inevitable anyway.
Posted by: deepblue | 2006-09-15 2:01:12 AM
I noticed the MSM wasted no time analyzing "gothic culture" in relation to this terrible act. When have they ever analyzed Islam when a muslim kills many more innocent people?
Sometimes people just have too many wires crossed, and nothing can stop them from doing something like this, whether it be in the USA where guns are plentiful, or in Germany where it is nearly impossible to get a hold of a gun. The oft-quoted example is Switzerland with almost everyone owning a gun and such a low crime rate (which, incidentally, is increasing along the same lines as their increasing muslim population). Or take Japan; guns are impossible to acquire legally there, so death-cults use nerve gas instead.
I heard some "expert" saying on the news that having armed security in the school would not have made a difference. The mind boggles at such idiocy. Also, the Montreal donut-chompers are slapping themselves on the back for a TWENTY MINUTE RESPONSE TIME! What the hell were those idiots doing? It is their job to protect the public with their weapons, since they deny us the right to protect ourselves. The chief of police should be executed (or fired because we are so "civilized" here). I saw on CNN cell phone footage from students of cops cowering away at the entrances of the school and hiding behind vehicles outside as students ran by completely unprotected. Can you imagine what they would do if terrorists attacked? I believe it should be a right to bear arms. Anyone who would trust a cop to protect them over themselves after seeing this is either lying or stupid.
Posted by: Big Makk | 2006-09-15 3:46:59 AM
Nbob, you gotta be kidding.
Investigation? The guy was lying there. What's left to investigate?
The part that really disturbs me is that not one young man in that entire college diplayed any courage, any initiative, made any effort to fight. Sure he would probably have been killed or wounded. So what? 3 or 4 ganging up and coming from all directions might have done something.
It was hard to watch young Canadian men running like rabbits.
And now we have the little fellers in hospital claiming psych damage? Rabbits taking stretched medical resources from the real wounded.
Posted by: Fred Z | 2006-09-15 8:16:42 AM
Agree, ban all Guns and Knives. bring in the Chop Sticks!
Posted by: Frico | 2006-09-15 8:22:54 AM
Boom no Zoom!
He, you know, him, that guy, with those people, clearly knows how to, "mange la merde" and regurgitate it!
The full quote is:
"a proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It’s a proof. A proof is a proof and when you have a good proof is because it’s proven."
Imagine him leading our nation, and actually negotiating with terrorists, if you will, while addressing the security force:
Daaaahhhh, doze guys? Dahhhh! Dey da group Hezbollah ca-ca poutine? Or whad-e-ver dey call demselves? Dahhhh Dat's wad we gotta negotiate wid? So wad proof is der dat, dahhh, dey's the guys 'heh?
Security Advisor: Well, they admit they fired over 3,000 rockets into civilian locations, and would like to negotiate a "get out of jail free card", for the next round of 20,000 as well as 5,000 get out of jail free cards, for all their followers who did the work for them.
So, wad proof is dere, dat dey did dat? It is not a proof, unless it is a good proof, and it is proven to be da proof!
Security Advisor: They say they did that, and would do it again if and when they have the chance, and with bigger and better rockets from Iran. You must have read the report. It has the reference to the BM-25 surface-to-surface missiles that it received in April from North Korea. The missiles, which have a range of 1,550 miles, can carry nuclear warheads and can reach Europe.
Dat's what dey say, but dat has not been proven, derefore it is not proof!
Posted by: Lady | 2006-09-15 9:54:37 AM
Kevin: Also unreported in the MSM is that Gill's legally licenced status and his registered restricted firearms is a commonality he shares with Montreal's other famous school shooting lunatics.
Both Marc Lepine and Valery Fabricant were screened and licenced to own firearms by the same Quebec gun control bureaucrats ( which is a stand alone system they begged for)Both had histories of violent behavior or instability which was available to police;
Fabricant even had the people he had threatened to kill go to the QPP and beg them not to give him permits for his hand guns...they were ignored and later killed in Fabricant's rampage.
Lepine's household had been the scene of a number of domestic abuse police calls where his father was beating his mother....this is more than enough legal reason for police to refuse or revoke a firearms licence....but Lepine got his anyway.
The facts about Gill have not come out yet but I'm willing to bet he had a similar break in the perfect tracable record needed to obtain and keep legal access to firearms.
It was even revealed a few years ago that Quebec's firearms control bureaucrats duely licenced and registered the guns of Moms Boucher the convicted Montreal hells Angels hit man.
Do you see a pattern here? Canada's most horrendous school shootings...all in Quebec where all the perpetrators were duely licenced and armed by Quebec's police and gun control bureaucracy....now exactly WHY are Duceppe and Charest making all their bluster about the registry??? Is it a diversion to cover their ass?
Posted by: Wlyonmackenzie | 2006-09-17 8:40:15 AM
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