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Tuesday, January 10, 2006

Liberal Red Book leaked!

Waiting for the Liberal Red Book? Wait no longer! Here's an, ahem, "advance copy".

Please credit the Western Standard and our blog, The Shotgun!

LATE NIGHT READING UPDATE: Use the word search function to see what's important in the Red Book and what's not, measured by how many times a word appears in the 85-page document. For example:

"notwithstanding clause": zero

"western alienation": zero

"democratic deficit": zero

It's fun -- do it yourself!

Posted by Ezra Levant on January 10, 2006 | Permalink

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Comments

Hmm, doesn't mention anything about a constitutional amendment to end Parliament’s ability to invoke the Notwithstanding Clause...

Posted by: JEM | 2006-01-10 11:31:30 PM


Funny how you never hear it mentioned that the reason there is a surplus is because Mulroney brought in the FTA and the GST. It cost the Conservatives dearly but left a legacy of prosperity that the Liberals have shamelessly claimed as their own.

Yea, I know, we hate the GST, that's just one of the reasons its a good tax. Frankly, I wish Harper would have raised the GST and lowered (even eliminated) income taxes, but you can't do what is best in Canadian politics any more, as it just won't get you elected.

Posted by: Ronald | 2006-01-10 11:32:17 PM


Try to download the file. Properties says it was created Jan. 9. Wasnt that the day of debate when he promised to scrap notwishstanding clause?

Y isnt it in platform then?

Posted by: Jane | 2006-01-11 12:33:54 AM


Count it credited. Anyone else notice how the Liberals are "Standing up for Canada" when it comes to the softwood lumber thing?

So original.

Posted by: Jonathan | 2006-01-11 2:07:36 AM


I'm still waiting to hear how Martin can support the document "Building the North American Community" which brings the Canadian economy, military, boarder crossings and ports under the control of Washington. No one has mentioned that.

No one has mentioned that under Martin, the disabled tax credit was taken away from millions of disabled Canadians. No one has mentioned that with Martin's cuts to health care and social services that people have to pay for services already. I know of one person who had to buy the cast that was needed for an injured leg. I know of an amputee who had to buy his artificial limb, all this because of Martin's cuts to health care and social services.

Martin wouldn't dare talk about his Red Book as the Liberals have gone down that road before.

Posted by: Ed Doerksen | 2006-01-11 4:04:19 AM


In the last election Mr. Harper was ahead in the polls until he made that unfortunate comment about child porn. His lead disappeared into a loss.

The adds that the Liberals pulled are the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. Piled up on top of all the Liberal scandals Mr. Harper looks like a real winner.

Posted by: Reuben Nussbaum | 2006-01-11 4:13:59 AM


Nothing in there about elected senate.
Nothing on notwithstanding at all

Oh, and file creation date is the date it was created on your computer unless you got a zipped version.

The reason cutting the gst is good is that it helps the poor more. Even the liberals were saying that in 1993. If the feds get out of ei, cpp, education, health care, and other items that are within provincial jurisdiction, then federal income taxes (that temporary measure that was brought in to pay for world war 1) could be reduced or erradicated.

John Reynolds

Posted by: jmrSudbury | 2006-01-11 4:14:01 AM


I hope Western Standard does a few stories in the future, to help resurrect the legacy of Brian Mulroney, on Free Trade. The only reason this country is finanically solvent is free trade. Free trade meant a lot of money was created by hard working Canadians. Paul Martin claimed he had created all this wealth. Nonsense. He didn't even create his own wealth, but was set up in life by Paul Demarais. Anyway, with the money generated by free trade, Paul Martin was able to pay down the debt. That's like someone giving me money to pay down my credit card. Paul Martin, financial genius. That's the biggest current myth of Canadian politics.

Posted by: Timothy Wiebe | 2006-01-11 5:04:00 AM


I wonder why this is coming out now, with just days to go before the election. In the past, the Red Books have come out at the very start. I guess that the strategy of standing on the Liebral record in office has been another disasterous failure. This won't work either.

Mulroney has already been redeemed as a visionary leader who had the best interests of the country at heart. The Liebrals have attempted to steal his ideas as their own, but they're not fooling anyone. Fortunately, Pierre the Terrible will remain as the most heartless, merciless tyrant in Canadian history. May he burn in hell for what he did to Quebec in 1970 and Alberta in 1980.

Posted by: Scott | 2006-01-11 6:11:41 AM


Yup, I'm voting Liberal now. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM


Lightning in January?!?!?!?!?!?!


Posted by: Bill | 2006-01-11 6:23:57 AM


The most aggravating thing about Bloated Paul Martin is that his views can sometimes appeal to the very ignorant. The example I use is the 'possible' handgun ban because of 'possible' house invasions to gun collectors. First off his ignorance shines. If all failed to remember you had to buy this cast iron gun box to put your guns in under the registry nonsense and enhanced gun laws. If you honestly think gun killers are goin to break into your house and run off with 200lbs of cast iron box and guns... well I guess you see my point. Martin in the same handgun tone will in the next breath admit the illegal flow of guns from the USA and not other countries, ignorance, again. Those that vote for ignorant Liberal Paul Martin are ignorant themselves.

All the ebst in the new year! GO CONSERVATIVES!

Posted by: Mark Nyman | 2006-01-11 6:29:45 AM


If the liberals were your children wouldn't they have a time out? It's ethics stupid.

Posted by: john patrick | 2006-01-11 6:34:28 AM


Re the Red Book -
page 64 - Committment to Official Languages
Interesting are the comments:

that bilingualism is the "heart of our identity, culture, and pride in citizenship". (I guess to about 30% of Canada's population it is)

Bilingualism should be viewed as an "investment, not a cost".
I see it much more as the latter - in terms of dollars and people's lack of career opportunities within Canada's institutions. If there was truly an equality throughout Canada without P.Q using the charter over-ride to exclude Anglo rights, perhaps the investment thought might apply.

The Action Plan for Official Languages (2003) will be re-newed in 2008 with a further $215M injection (on top of the $820M in 2003).

No mention of the cost of the Official Languages Education Plan - past, present, or future. (Perhaps it is included in the above figures)

Nothing about Bill S-3 (Bill S-2 was mentioned - so why not S-3). The cost implications for S-3 are likely to be huge.

Interesting comments prior to/after the French Debate:

Aiken (media) mentioned during the day that Harper had something like 70 points in "capital" (read political captial) in Alberta - so if Harper made some (interesting) points in Quebec during the French debate - then not likely a problem if his captial was to drop to perhaps 60 points. Really!!!!!! - an interesting perspective.

On CPAC - post French Debate - with B. Belanger (lib)/Paul Benoit(Con)/NDP/& Bloc.

Belanger mentioned "they" voted against an amendment to the Official Languages Act. "They", probably being the conservatives. There was no other reaction to this statement.

Options Canada was hit hard with both currently active Liberals and Conservatives being named. This one isn't likely to go away.

Who knows what, if any, of this means anything - time will tell


Posted by: calgary clipper | 2006-01-11 6:49:50 AM


Another version of the "Red Book" can be viewed at www.goodwon.ca -- it makes the Liberal platform even more plain!

Posted by: Goodwon.ca | 2006-01-11 6:49:55 AM


THIS LETTER WAS RECIEVED FROM A FRIEND IN NEW ZEALAND ,where it is more democratic than Canada ever was~!!!

Subject: Mr Dingwall.


Hi there....l receive mail from a very dear friend lve known for many years and who lives in Canada.....lve read all about the gun -registration and the cost to the people..lve read all about the corruption within your police force and politics....but this piece of **** is the lowest greedy prat lve heard of for many a year!!!!!!!....l live in New Zealand and am galled at what l have read and angered that the bludging leech has been allowed to suck the money from the public in this way...no politician would get away with that here in NZ...the public wouldnt allow it nor would the other parties..One thing l have seen over and over again...your public may object or even dare to protest...and what happens.? they lose thier homes!!....Canada is ruled by crooks and tyrants....and l put them right up there with the likes of Suddam Hussien and Hitler!....bring back the public stocks for starters....total humiliation as your dragged on an open flatbed in winter for all to see and jeer at....(preferrably naked)....might save the cost of a court hearing!
l always thought Canada was a great and wonderful country looking after its people.....but lm saddened to see its not..... those in power are hell bent on utilizing its people for every drop of blood and funds they can squeeze out of them for their own gain....they have created a very sick society....
You have a bunch of wankers running the show and they dont give a **** about the real people.!

Well, fair's fair - here's what the Chretien-Martin Liberals have done for
you:

$2 BILLION wasted on registering law abiding gun owners
Same Sex Marriage !
Democratic Deficit - appointing candidates instead of elected.
Abolish NAFTA a Lie
Abolish GST another Lie
Pearson Airport Payoff
Destruction of Cod Fishery
The tainted blood scandal, coverup, and the paltry deal
Devalued Canadian Dollar ($1.05 to $0.64 American)
Ripping off veteran's and widow's pensions
The botched Airbus scandal investigation
The cancelled Somalia "inquiry"
The cancelled APEC "inquiry"
The AdScam "inquiry"
The Botched Air India Investigation & Trial
The HRDC billion dollar boondoggle
No New Helicopters for the Army The EH-101 contract cost about 500
Million to back out of but New Challenger Jets for Chretien
Wheat farmers arrested for selling their own wheat
Gutting $25 billion dollars out of health care
Big Brother Files (aka the HRDC "Longitudinal Files")
Election gag order restricting freedom of speech
EI regulation vote buying flip-flop (x2)
$40 billion dollars ripped off from the EI fund
Highest tax rate in the G7
Native Treatment Center Scandal
The Fake Flag Fiasco
Leaky Used British Submarines
"What do *you* know about Christians?" - Sheila Copps
"Crosses are burning as we speak!" - Hedy Fry
"Damn Americans! I hate those bastards!" - Carrolyn Parrish
"Bush is a moron" - Chretien communication aide
Canada cannot survive 5 more years of Liberal Rule!

Posted by: mred | 2006-01-11 6:56:28 AM


If the notwithstanding clause is removed and the supreme court cant be stopped,then why do we need a parliament.It was the supreme court in Hitlers Germany that made all those evil laws,not the Reichstag.

Posted by: spike | 2006-01-11 7:03:02 AM


You said:

"The example I use is the 'possible' handgun ban because of 'possible' house invasions to gun collectors. First off his ignorance shines. If all failed to remember you had to buy this cast iron gun box to put your guns in under the registry nonsense and enhanced gun laws. If you honestly think gun killers are goin to break into your house and run off with 200lbs of cast iron box and guns... well I guess you see my point."

Which means you obviously never read:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1136589011741

And which also means you're not aware that Canada's police - yes, the police, not some left wing organization - say that 50% of all gun crimes are perpetrated by guns stolen from legitimate canadian gun owners. FIFTY PERCENT.

FUCK, WESTERNERS ARE SOME DUMB FUCKING PEOPLE. CONSIDER ME GLAD I DON'T LIVE IN THAT SINKHOLE

Posted by: Proudly Not From the West | 2006-01-11 7:16:10 AM


Looky, looky, hot off the press...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1136675412574&call_pageid=976163513378&col=969048863474

You Western gun nuts are such bastards. You'll deliberately lie in order to keep your precious Smith and Wessons.

Posted by: Proudly Not From the West | 2006-01-11 7:26:21 AM


Heh. Looks like Scott has a nemesis.

RG

Posted by: RightGirl | 2006-01-11 7:29:18 AM


Proudly,
Anyone who gets one shred of news from that commie rag obviously doesn't have two brain cells to rub together and votes Liberal.

IF the Liberals would keep the crooks in jail, we wouldn't have our firearms stolen. Except that would mean that the majority of Liberals would be behind bars. A Perfect Plan.

PS. Go shut off your furnace, we want our gas back.

Posted by: Proudly Western | 2006-01-11 7:40:52 AM


As a former (and future)westerner I surely hope this blog does not represent all. Rumour mongering by this blog is as bad as the Liberals and if the liberals are bad, imagine Harper, cum reform/cum alliance/cum conservative alliance/cum Conservative running things. Harper, a Mulroney minus the chin, not an original thought since....crap, he never had one.
As a once proud Westernmer I am becoming embarassed by the whining that is coming from out there. We used to take care of things ourselves but now we have become the "other Quebec". No one listens, no one loves us, no one pays attention boo hoo.
Oh, well, lets get Harper in there so he can sell us to the highest bidder (or who ever will tell him he is as good as he thinks), then we can have another election and perhaps he will quit as he promised that last election and get a real leader. Harper is a clown in a human suit with the Mulroneyites pulling the strings. I mean, we are still paying for Mulroneys lawyers as we speak to keep that bonehead out of jail. Jeez folks, we near elected the conservatives out of existance because they were such dorks...we have to re-live all that again? Oh yea...whine, moan, drip, better than martin telling you facts than harper fiction. At leasty martin eventuallty admits to his screwups. We still pay for the last conservative screwups (13 years later).

Posted by: Former Westerner | 2006-01-11 7:41:09 AM


It's funny (bizarre) that this Ontarian would blame the West for Toronto's gun problem. The gun owner in his own evidence is not just an Ontarian, but a Toronto person living in a subsidizied apartment, no less!

Geez, the people who stole his guns actually took his safe, and spent 2 DAYS trying to crack into it. These were obviously some dedicated criminals, which are quite common in Ontario. Look at Ontario's favorite couple: Karla and Paul, who just had a movie made about them.

But consider that if Chicago had 445 murders, Washington DC 195, Baltimore 268, but Toronto 78, then there is no serious problem for Toronto. WRONG!!! This arrogant, stupid attitude of Ontarians towards their social problems is going to destroy them. If my tax money wasn't being used to continue this insanity, I wouldn't care in the slightest if Ontarians gunned each other down.

I'll throw in some more simple logic: if Westerners are awash in legally owned guns, why doesn't the west have more of a gun violence problem? The west does have urban gang activity in Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and even Calgary, but Toronto seems to get more attention (and squanders it by blaming others). The anti-American bigotry in Tronna doesn't work out here. If anything, the problem is made worse by Tronna's incompetence, racism, and stupidity.

On Jan 23, vote Ontario's government out.

Posted by: Scott | 2006-01-11 7:47:36 AM


Hey, who let that raving, delusional, hate-filled lefty into the room?

Somebody, please get him back on his meds! :-)

Posted by: Dave | 2006-01-11 7:55:28 AM


Proudly,
You would think a gun collector would be more cautious. It's obvious that someone knew of his collection and that he was not around giving them two days to break into his safe. Tragic indeed. The problem I see with a handgun ban is that any guns not 'surrendered' instantly become valuable on the illegal market. It's not a case of east vs west, we've had our share of gun tragedies resulting from domestic situations, plus the Taber shootings and of course Mayerthorpe. The gun laws should be beefed up to penalize people for improper storage (although, that provision may already be there) Unfortunately someone is usually shot before anyone is charged.

Posted by: beancounter | 2006-01-11 7:57:49 AM


That pdf is a great read. More reasons to vote Liberal. Cheers!

Posted by: Drew | 2006-01-11 8:15:43 AM


I question how much gun crime would drop with an all - out ban , including collectors. [ Could not simple legislation be put into effect to permanantly disable collectibles ? ] Will a ban stop smuggling of guns across the dozens of unmanned border crossings , not to mention someone simply walking across the 3000 mile long border? I would say that a ban would jack up the price of a smuggled handgun and encourage the smuggling .
The only real solution is stiff enforcement of gun laws , already on the books and all the lunatic ramblings of ' proudly not from the west ' and his Liberal numbskulls cronies , will not change that fact...

Posted by: dave [ the first ] | 2006-01-11 8:26:43 AM


I would suggest that, vitriol notwithstanding, Proudly Not From The West represents a large percentage of Ontario feeling. Now that Ontario has become aware of the West as a threat to their "values" (post-modernist profits) instead of simply being part of that nothingness somewehre westof the west end of the TTC subway line, the West must be punished. Can anyone say NEP? Surely we must recognize that Canada as it is today is merely the twitching corpse of a once proud country.

Posted by: Douglas | 2006-01-11 8:39:25 AM


Former Westerner!
The only thing funnier than watching the pathetic Martin stumble through his campaign is listening to the deranged ramblings of his moonbat supporters like you! Martin and truth in the same sentence! My god! Keep it coming dude; but I gotta warn you drinking all that left wing Liberal Kool-Aid could have long term effects on your health! I think I speak for many when I say if your so embarrassed of us stay right where you are. You belong there. People that are looking to the future (which under the Liberals we have none) not the past live here.

Posted by: Richard | 2006-01-11 8:54:24 AM


Nothing turned up on keywords: "Gomery" or "Adscam" or "Option Canada", or outlawing civilian firearms, or CSL, or Cordex, or Earnscliffe, or Jurocracy, or depleated parliamentary democracy.....

Posted by: WLMackenzie redux | 2006-01-11 9:03:59 AM


Diversity shows up 6 times. Compassion(ate)= 5. Economic opportunity = 3. Free trade = 2. Fiscal restraint= 0, Immagration = 0, terriorism = 0.

Fun with Paul and Libs.

Posted by: KyGuy-USA | 2006-01-11 9:07:57 AM


Kudos Douglas; you have hit the nail squarely on the head.

Posted by: Richard | 2006-01-11 9:12:51 AM



Todays` metaphor for the inept and dying Liberal campaign , came on the puppets `brooowdcast
' this morning.. Susan Murray , Liberal attack floozie as she shouts and interupts the Don Newman panel trying to defend the indefensible , contrasted to the Conservative strategist Sandra Buckler with her calm , logical and likeable demeanor. Honourable mention to Brad Lavigne . Why do all Liberals resort to shouting ?
Also I take note that CBC linebacker , Carolyn Dunn is flacking for the Liberals at an ever increasing frenzy as the end draws nigh...

Posted by: dave [ the first ] | 2006-01-11 9:18:02 AM


The first vaunted "Liberal Red Book" was a response to the overwhelming succuss of the Reform Bluebook. Not only did the Liberals steal the format but most of the ideas inside of it.

Looks like the Conservatives have been successful at keeping their complete platform out Liberal hands.

A good demonstration that Liberals don't have any ideas of their own that resonate with the Canadian Public.

Posted by: ward | 2006-01-11 9:23:52 AM


I know I am not going to convince the reader of this blog. But confider this about this... you're all for self reliance now. Now you have oil money. I would be too but it'll run out. It you might be less right wing when you aren't rich.
---
On guns. Sympathize with the city dwellers. There's no reason to have a handgun in the city.

Posted by: centerist | 2006-01-11 9:25:53 AM


Alright, I'm pissed.

I am a fiscal moderate, and I'm from Ontario. There are about three million of us. We used to vote PC about half the time, before "common sense" wrecked our province, and if the Conservative party could make a commitment to the twenty-first century in social attitudes, they would have my vote, this time. Big-C Conservative social policies appear to work very well for a province that has the population of the denser part of the Toronto region and an oil-based economy that will outstrip Saudi Arabia's in the next five years or so. But, if you think you feel alienated now, wait until your cities bloat to around 2 million apiece and are going broke to subsidize rural and agricultural economies that can no longer compete. I am not a Torontonian (more on this later), but: The fiscal imbalance is real, and alienation is real, but it's between the haves and have nots, just like always.

Harper proposed the gas tax transfer, I believe, and good on him. But that's about as much good as he's proposing to do for anybody here, other than replacing one corrupt network with another corruptible one. Arrogance comes with the job. It will happen. Harper's whole campaign is that Canada sucks because of the Liberals, and I don't buy it.

Granted, the Liberal tone is that Harper will sell Quebec to the United States or some crap, but that is just another lost vote. What if I want to vote *for* somebody? I look forward to having a disruptive, costly election when the Conservative embezzle few tens of millions out of a trillion-dollar economy.

I don't like the negative tone, at all. By the numbers, Canada really does kick ass, and it isn't all resource revenue. I would live in any major Canadian city and feel lucky and proud. Competent fiscal management by any party during the 1990s would have caused this result. Canada needs continued competent management and fresh social management ideas for changing demographics, not minor adjustments to tax policy that may or may not make life slightly crappier for people who can't afford to pay much GST anyway.

Harper was probably the smartest and most realistic man at those debates, but you have to be chauvinistic about your country to run it. You have to give a damn. We can be friendly with the U.S., we just don't have to do what they say. Hell, give me Mulroney back. I'll take the egomaniac over the U.S.'s prison buddy any day.

"Western alienation" is just a case of the Hamptons not wanting to associate with the "common people." You know, like Britney Bearspaw. (Flame off.)

Spike hasn't heard of Godwin's Law, but thanks for your contribution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

One final thought on handguns: Toronto is seriously upset. If the government doesn't get handguns out of there, the vigilantes will. This gang violence is a threat to their superiority complex. It may be bigoted that it took a pretty blonde teenager to get people upset when gang members killing gang members and less photogenic bystanders didn't, but the ball is rolling now, and counting whole Lake Ontario golden horseshoe, it's 6 million people, almost 20% of Canada, scared and reactionary. I look towards Toronto and grimace. Prepare to move out of the way. Clear out of the country if necessary. Ontario can get its energy from the République du Québec, assuming that we can find negotiators who can still speak French.

You know who gets my vote? The party, or party supporter, or concerned citizen, who can tell me what Canada looks like five years from now if their vote carries the day. Frankly, I still have no idea what the Conservatives want, and I've been listening. I need a vision.

I love Canada, but that idea feels passé, and maybe inviting real discourse is just pissing into the wind at this point.

Posted by: Who's Tommy | 2006-01-11 9:30:13 AM


Interesting how some claim to be from the west and yet they speak as if they spent their entire lives in Toronto.
I have been living in Ottawa for a total of almost 14 years now. It continually amazes me how easterners demonize Westerners, Americans, Christians and 'right-wingers' (which really means anyone more to the right than the ultra-left-wing). These attitudes are not based on any facts, simply fear-mongering.
The fact is (an overused phrase in the debates) that the Liberal government has had far too many scandals, much too much corruption, and has lost the moral authority to govern. We need the changes that only the Conservative party can bring, in my opinion, since the Bloc is not a national party and the NDP would tax the country to ruin, to the point that we all would have to be on their welfare dollar. And then where would the funds come to pay for everyone's EI?
Easterners have lost touch with reality, hence the continual election of the Liberal party. It is my hope that a more rational analysis of the facts and positions will occur, and people will realize that the only viable option for improving the government is to vote in a Conservative majority. That is my hope.

Posted by: westerner | 2006-01-11 9:37:06 AM


Beancounter states that "someone" knew of this man's gun ownership and that gun owners should be more "cautious".

The law of Ontario http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/94a20_e.htm says that when I buy ammunition I must not only show my Firearms License, but the seller must also record my name address and type of ammunition purchased!

There is no law stating how these records are to be secured or stored. In fact, if you walk into a Wal Mart or Canadian Tire, you could probably find this book thrown under the counter in the sporting goods area!

What an excellent resource for those wishing to obtain a list of homes containing firearms of specific calibres to steal!!!!

It would probably only cost me a $20 bill to have a few minutes alone with that ledger if I asked the right person!

Instead of banning my legally owned handguns, my personal information should be protected from theft by omitting section 4 (1) from the Ammunition Regulation Act, 1994, so people do not have access to my address in order to attempt to steal my firearms!

I think an investigation of this "loophole" would certainly be in order!

Posted by: anne in sw ON | 2006-01-11 9:37:16 AM


BTW, playing buzzword bingo with the Liberal Red Book proves nothing. Platforms are 95% spin.

I guess we get what we deserve though. Nobody interested in governing OR voting seems to be able to tell the whole truth these days.

Posted by: Who's Tommy | 2006-01-11 9:40:19 AM


anne in sw ON says:

> Instead of banning my legally owned handguns

Everything that becomes banned was once "legally owned". Just because something is legal now doesn't mean it should be legal for ever. This would be a circular argument.

Posted by: centerist | 2006-01-11 9:44:20 AM


The WS has been scooped!!! by yours truly

http://potentpew.blogspot.com/2006/01/canada-election-2006-exclusive.html

Posted by: Jonathan | 2006-01-11 9:44:58 AM


To Anne in SW Ont:
Excellent point! I haven't purchased ammo myself, so I know nothing of what's involved. Somehow someone knew this man had something worth stealing...
Speaking of ammo, why not restrict that to 'approved' purchasers, which would only work if the ammunition & guns were stored separately (which I think they're supposed to be).
Of course, this will only work if ammunition from allowed firearms (rifles) is not interchangeable with restricted firearms...geez, you think I'd know, being from Alberta!

Posted by: beancounter | 2006-01-11 9:45:27 AM


centreist--

You said "there's no reason to have a handgun in the city".

I grew up in downtown Toronto, right across the street from Maple Leaf Gardens. I even worked there as a teenager. While I was living there, two women were raped in my block by a guy who sneaked into their apartments. Another guy was killed in my building. And I lived in an expensive condo building, not a slum.

One of the women who was raped successfully sued the Toronto Police, I believe, for not issuing a proper warning.

What would have happened if she had had a handgun under her pillow?

I know handguns can be taken and used against you, but more often than that they're used defensively. I've often thought of getting one because my husband works strange hours and I'm often home alone with my two girls at night. Will my alarm system always do the trick?

I hate violence. I hate guns. But I also love my girls. When you live in a city with lots of violence, perhaps the best option is to have a gun.

So, I would say handguns have more use in a city than they do elsewhere. What do the rest of you think, because I really can't make up my mind about a handgun purchase. Any other women out there with similar questions?

Posted by: SheilaG | 2006-01-11 9:46:54 AM


Ugh, the fact is that Martin says "the fact is" too much in addressing issues of opinion.

Nothing yet. Seriously, I'm a an angry Ontarian, trying to be reasonable, listening for a new vision of Canada and hearing echoes of "Pierre Elliot Trudeau Ripped Off Canada." Canada means a lot of different things to different people, but I challenge you to open my tiny little Eastern "moderate" (you would read "leftist") mind.

Posted by: Who's Tommy | 2006-01-11 9:48:05 AM


People, you seriously need to take a look at what Jonathan found. Here's a more direct link:

http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/platform_en.pdf

Not sure if this was the old red book or the new red book or if it was another "ad that wasn't supposed to be run", but geez - that's some quality security over at the Liberal party.

Oh yeah, a search through that pdf for the terms "notwithstanding" or "constitution" turns up zero results.

Posted by: Ed Minchau | 2006-01-11 9:54:36 AM


So those of you who champion the instillation of a gun ban are under the impression that a criminal - who would break into my home, and steal my gun (among other things) and then proceed to use it in the commission of a crime - is suddenly going to stop in his efforts, once you take my right to legally own a gun, away?

If he's willing to go to this trouble, what makes you think a gun ban will stop him? He already has no regard for the law...and if he wants a gun, he'll get one. The only thing a gun ban does, is guarantee for him, that I don't have one to defend myself.

Oh ya...good plan. I have some red paint, if you want to get a head start on painting those targets on your heads...

Posted by: Wonder Woman | 2006-01-11 10:00:37 AM


My god; what is going to take to make you people realize government can NEVER take the guns out of the hands of bad people! It is what we out west and the Conservative party have been saying for years! What happened in Toronto should serve notice as to the complete failure; let me rephrase that; the completely predicable failure of the Liberal gun registry! Handguns have been banned for years! Perhaps if a bystander would have had a weapon the bad guy may have been shot first. As for vigilantes; isn't that a completely redneck (western; which is distained so much) way of dealing with things? And what do the vigilantes plan on using against the armed bad guys? The last time I checked the vaunted Liberal government was taking away your right to own and bear arms. I'm thinking the good guys are going to be underarmed. Do you not see the hypocrisy? What happened was truly tragic; but so is thinking government bans on any kind of firearm is going to save a single life. The only one talking about getting tough on guncrime is Harper; at least its a start. Trying to comfort a worried public with more talk about "gun bans" is offering false hope and absolutely no security. Not to mention costing this country billions.

Posted by: Richard | 2006-01-11 10:01:04 AM


Jonathan, just in case the Liberals remove that pdf from their website, I saved it and forwarded it to info@westernstandard.ca

Is the Liberal war room full of n00bs?

Posted by: Ed Minchau | 2006-01-11 10:05:03 AM


How can they run a country if they can't even control their website?

First the ads and now this?

Posted by: Jonathan | 2006-01-11 10:08:45 AM


Crooks zeroing in on gun collections because they are all listed on leaky government computers.

Whey you spend two billion on a candy store list of weaponry, you provide bad guys with a shopping list that includes addresses and product details.

What did you think was going to happen?

However, remember this .. 99.9 of the murders with handguns are by scum killing other scum.

Bummer about the innocents, but no one said life was fair and

REMEMBER .. drunks kill ten times more innocents each year than shooters. They don't do much jail time either.

Posted by: Duke | 2006-01-11 10:11:45 AM


Richard said:

> what is going to take to make you people
> realize government can NEVER take the guns
> out of the hands of bad people!

As a centrist this is one anti-gun-control argument I don't understand. The government makes laws against many things that are hard to enforce. For example, its illegal to dump toxic chemicals. You could do that in a really remote place and nobody would see you. So we should not ban that?! Because it can never be totally enforced?

Posted by: centerist | 2006-01-11 10:19:13 AM


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